Rafa's Rants (the sequel)

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are Utd fans so invested in arguing that Rafa didn't actually do well during his time at Liverpool? Always something that's puzzled me.

Obsession is a difficult feeling to put into words so I'm not sure you'll get much of an answer.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are Utd fans so invested in arguing that Rafa didn't actually do well during his time at Liverpool? Always something that's puzzled me.

That would be an absolute minority in fairness so you might want to rephrase that...

Will I Amnt

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Obsession is a difficult feeling to put into words so I'm not sure you'll get much of an answer.

Lol.

Lovely Bloke

cambo2008 wrote: »

That would be an absolute minority in fairness so you might want to rephrase that...

Nah, Lloyd is all about the sweeping generalisations, he had a climb down the other day about something else, doubt you'll get one this time.

Handsome Bob

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are Utd fans so invested in arguing that Rafa didn't actually do well during his time at Liverpool? Always something that's puzzled me.

It doesn't really puzzle you now Lloyd.

Red Crow

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Obsession is a difficult feeling to put into words so I'm not sure you'll get much of an answer.

Obsession with what? How can you be obsessed with something that isn't very good?

As for the generalisation of that statement it's not exactly rocket science as to why a traditional rival might argue that a certain manager from the oppositions club might not be very good?

Surely you're not trying to get in a petty dig on an Internet forum.

Football fan argues rival manager was sh1te! Shock. Horror.

wandatowell

I wondered how it would take the Liverpool Vs Utd sh1t talk to start

chopperbyrne

Gbear wrote: »

You're completely underplaying how good a job it took to get Liverpool from being an awful team at the end of Ged's reign to challenging for trophies under Rafa.

Houllier won more trophies with Liverpool than Rafa.

Will I Amnt

wandatowell wrote: »

I wondered how it would take the Liverpool Vs Utd sh1t talk to start

And how might that be?

The_Kew_Tour

So Chelsea fans.

If Rafa does go who do you want to replace him (realistically)

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are Utd fans so invested in arguing that Rafa didn't actually do well during his time at Liverpool? Always something that's puzzled me.

Head scratcher alright.

Rafa threads always go on for weeks.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Obsession is a difficult feeling to put into words so I'm not sure you'll get much of an answer.

Some are obsessed, plenty don't care. This thread is testament.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2056891392

Anyone

rarnes1 wrote: »

Head scratcher alright.

Rafa threads always go on for weeks.



Some are obsessed, plenty don't care. This thread is testament.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2056891392

You cant blame Cambo, its a 2 for 1 for him, a chance to take the piss out of Liverpool and Chelsea fans!

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

Head scratcher alright.

Rafa threads always go on for weeks.



Some are obsessed, plenty don't care. This thread is testament.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2056891392

I have an opinion here, I made a point the other day that plenty disagreed with and resulted in me replying to a lot of posts in a short period of time. I don't piss off when I'm called out on something...

Anyone

Anyone wrote: »

You cant blame Cambo, its a 2 for 1 for him, a chance to take the piss out of Liverpool and Chelsea fans!

Not blaming anyone. Just pointing out that some care, some don't, same as most threads I suppose!

Will I Amnt

Anyone wrote: »

You cant blame Cambo, its a 2 for 1 for him, a chance to take the piss out of Liverpool and Chelsea fans!

I don't care very much for taking the piss out of anyone and if I do it's usually light-hearted.

Anyone

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not blaming anyone. Just pointing out that some care, some don't, same as most threads I suppose!

cambo2008 wrote: »

I don't care very much for taking the piss out of anyone and if I do it's usually light-hearted.

I just meant it as a joke. Forgot that was frowned upon on the soccer forum.

Will I Amnt

Anyone wrote: »

I just meant it as a joke. Forgot that was frowned upon on the soccer forum.

If it was funny I would have responded differently

jesus_thats_gre

Was the Football Focus interview the result of the midweek interview or was it scheduled already?

If it was scheduled already, the timing of his midweek comments is interesting.

ctrl-alt-delete

Interview with Rafa on the issues has just been on Football Focus for those with catchupability.

jesus_thats_gre

It's on the BBC website too.

Leiva

Brian Reade of The Mirror has firmly hit the nail on the head today with his article on Benitez and Chelsea FC.

There’s a strong whiff of cowardice and denial to this anti-Benitez hate campaign, which I’m sure many long-term Chelsea fans see.

A monkey is being hung because they’re too afraid to confront the organ grinder for fear he takes his booty elsewhere.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/cant-fans-see-rafa-benitez-1738190

CSF

I will never fully understand the argument that Rafa left Liverpool in a bad state. I mean without even wading into too detailed an argument, Rafa left Liverpool with 70 millions worth of assets (Torres and Mascherano) when selling 2 players alone, with the likes of Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Lucas and Kuyt to build a team around.

It's not Rafa's fault that he was followed up by 2 crap managers in Hodgson and Dalglish.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

I will never fully understand the argument that Rafa left Liverpool in a bad state. I mean without even wading into too detailed an argument, Rafa left Liverpool with 70 millions worth of assets (Torres and Mascherano) when selling 2 players alone, with the likes of Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Lucas and Kuyt to build a team around.

It's not Rafa's fault that he was followed up by 2 crap managers in Hodgson and Dalglish.

Basically there was a requirement for net investment in the summers of 2009 and 2010 to add and strengthen the excellent 2008 / 9 team. That wasn't done as the owners at the time didn't have the means. Three successive windows of negative investment left a huge amount of work to be done when FSG took over, and their investment was badly misplaced.

Hence where we are now. It's not Rafa's fault.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Basically there was a requirement for net investment in the summers of 2009 and 2010 to add and strengthen the excellent 2008 / 9 team. That wasn't done as the owners at the time didn't have the means. Three successive windows of negative investment left a huge amount of work to be done when FSG took over, and their investment was badly misplaced.

Hence where we are now. It's not Rafa's fault.

35 million on Carroll, 20 million for Downing, 20 million on Henderson (even though I actually think he's ok, never a 20 million player).

Give that 75 million to someone like Ferguson (or even someone like Rodgers or Pardew) and life after Benitez would have been much more rosy. Add some net spend in there and Liverpool should really be in a much better state than they currently are.

It's Hodgson and Dalglish Id blame, not Rafa.

Lovely Bloke

Can't blame Kenny though. It's sacreligious.

Sgt Pepper 64

Maybe Rafa is canny after all and he's trying to do a Jose by putting all the attention on himself and uniting the players and fans?

Please stop destroying this thread with what he did or didnt do at Liverpool.
Its about the here and now FFS!

Chucky the tree

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Maybe Rafa is canny after all and he's trying to do a Jose by putting all the attention on himself and uniting the players and fans?

I think he's just trying to tell the fans that go to games to stop being complete idiots. Although not sure how likely that is to change.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

35 million on Carroll, 20 million for Downing, 20 million on Henderson (even though I actually think he's ok, never a 20 million player).

Give that 75 million to someone like Ferguson (or even someone like Rodgers or Pardew) and life after Benitez would have been much more rosy. Add some net spend in there and Liverpool should really be in a much better state than they currently are.

It's Hodgson and Dalglish Id blame, not Rafa.

Basically agree on the 2011 investment. It was enough to have put the squad in great shape it was just spent incredibly poorly.

LuckyLloyd

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Maybe Rafa is canny after all and he's trying to do a Jose by putting all the attention on himself and uniting the players and fans?

Please stop destroying this thread with what he did or didnt do at Liverpool.
Its about the here and now FFS!

Nah, he's just telling the stupid section of your fanbase to shut their ****ing mouths, that's all.

PhlegmyMoses

The elephant in the room is that the Chelsea fans have never done this to any other manager at the club. They got behind managers as average as RDM and Avram Grant but won't support Rafa. He is not a well liked person outside of Merseyside and people just have to accept that. The Chelsea fans are entitled to their opinion.

Hulk Hands

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are Utd fans so invested in arguing that Rafa didn't actually do well during his time at Liverpool? Always something that's puzzled me.

It's not just United fans, its most in general. There's a ridiculous amount nostaligia from Liverpool fans about the 07-10 squad, that causes them to be completely overrated. You've had posters on this thread saying that they were better than Chelsea over that period. You've had plenty on site maintaining that with a bit more support from the owners the summer previous, they would've been champions in 2010 despite finishing 24 points behind that season. When you get ridiculous outlandish claims, they are going to be met with skepticism. It would be the same with any team, be it Liverpool, Arsenal, United themselves etc. The fact that it's mostly United fans commenting is just a product of numbers. Most non-Liverpool fans on here are United fans

Hulk Hands

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's not just United fans, its most in general. There's a ridiculous amount nostaligia from Liverpool fans about the 07-10 squad, that causes them to be completely overrated. You've had posters on this thread saying that they were better than Chelsea over that period. You've had plenty on site maintaining that with a bit more support from the owners the summer previous, they would've been champions in 2010 despite finishing 24 points behind that season. When you get ridiculous outlandish claims, they are going to be met with skepticism. It would be the same with any team, be it Liverpool, Arsenal, United themselves etc. The fact that it's mostly United fans commenting is just a product of numbers. Most non-Liverpool fans on here are United fans

Outlandish indeed

niallo27

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's not just United fans, its most in general. There's a ridiculous amount nostaligia from Liverpool fans about the 07-10 squad, that causes them to be completely overrated. You've had posters on this thread saying that they were better than Chelsea over that period. You've had plenty on site maintaining that with a bit more support from the owners the summer previous, they would've been champions in 2010 despite finishing 24 points behind that season. When you get ridiculous outlandish claims, they are going to be met with skepticism. It would be the same with any team, be it Liverpool, Arsenal, United themselves etc. The fact that it's mostly United fans commenting is just a product of numbers. Most non-Liverpool fans on here are United fans

Yes but why do utd fans care so much though. Why should they give a **** liverpool fans think about their own club. It's something about Rafa that gets to them and they try to downplay everything he did. I can't understand it.

monkey9

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's not just United fans, its most in general. There's a ridiculous amount nostaligia from Liverpool fans about the 07-10 squad, that causes them to be completely overrated. You've had posters on this thread saying that they were better than Chelsea over that period. You've had plenty on site maintaining that with a bit more support from the owners the summer previous, they would've been champions in 2010 despite finishing 24 points behind that season. When you get ridiculous outlandish claims, they are going to be met with skepticism. It would be the same with any team, be it Liverpool, Arsenal, United themselves etc. The fact that it's mostly United fans commenting is just a product of numbers. Most non-Liverpool fans on here are United fans

Roy Hodgson was a sh!t Liverpool manager! Why don't you's obsess about him? Answer, cos he was a sh!t Liverpool manager!

Will I Amnt

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but why do utd fans care so much though. Why should they give a **** liverpool fans think about their own club. It's something about Rafa that gets to them and they try to downplay everything he did. I can't understand it.

If I said in the United thread that Rooney was the 3rd best player in the world after Messi and Ronaldo and you seen the post would you (a) ignore it, move on, why would you care what a United fan thinks?
(b) you're face light up at the opportunity to tell me how wrong I am?

You know how this forum works. If you post something that's going to divide opinion then you have to expect the inevitable responses.

Will I Amnt

monkey9 wrote: »

Roy Hodgson was a sh!t Liverpool manager! Why don't you's obsess about him? Answer, cos he was a sh!t Liverpool manager!

Because nobody is arguing the other side of that. Simple really.

monkey9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Because nobody is arguing the other side of that. Simple really.

Ha!!! Utd fans defended him to the hilt on these threads!! That summed up his reign perfectly.

Will I Amnt

monkey9 wrote: »

Ha!!! Utd fans defended him to the hilt on these threads!! That summed up his reign perfectly.

I would say a minority but Liverpool fans were not, hence the lack of "obsession".

Leiva

Comical stuff.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

Comical stuff.

What is?

jesus_thats_gre

CSF wrote: »

35 million on Carroll, 20 million for Downing, 20 million on Henderson (even though I actually think he's ok, never a 20 million player).

Give that 75 million to someone like Ferguson (or even someone like Rodgers or Pardew) and life after Benitez would have been much more rosy. Add some net spend in there and Liverpool should really be in a much better state than they currently are.

It's Hodgson and Dalglish Id blame, not Rafa.

Giving that same money to AF and only giving the players 12 to 24 months to settle in would result in the exact same outcome as the players you listed.

The difference is that United can afford to be patient and will treat them as long them investments. Look at the money spent on Carrick, Anderson, Nani, DeGea or Jones.

All similar enough prices to what Liverpool spent and all started slowly. At various point since though, each have proven to be very important players for united and have shown the required ability.

Take United buying Young and Liverpool buying Downing. Young has gone into a team with genuine competition for his position - that competition gives him motivation to play well but also takes the pressure off as he can be dropped for a few games and replaced by someone as effective. If Downing gets dropped, Liverpool fans go mad that 20m is sitting on the bench.

The same applies for virtually every position that Liverpool have invested in. We have one chance to get a signing right as if we don't, we are snookered on the pitch and we can't really afford to wait for the player to settle in - short tem immediate impacts is needed. Not so the case for United.

Imagine Liverrpol spent 8m on Hernandez back when United did.. He would probably be overplayed at this stage or sold for a cut price to a Spannish club.

dfx-

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Was the Football Focus interview the result of the midweek interview or was it scheduled already?

If it was scheduled already, the timing of his midweek comments is interesting.

I think I heard Dan Walker say on Thursday that an interview was already scheduled ahead of the game and that when he heard about the Middlesbrough comments, he thought the interview would be postponed/cancelled..

monkey9

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Giving that same money to AF and only giving the players 12 to 24 months to settle in would result in the exact same outcome as the players you listed.

The difference is that United can afford to be patient and will treat them as long them investments. Look at the money spent on Carrick, Anderson, Nani, DeGea or Jones.

All similar enough prices to what Liverpool spent and all started slowly. At various point since though, each have proven to be very important players for united and have shown the required ability.

Take United buying Young and Liverpool buying Downing. Young has gone into a team with genuine competition for his position - that competition gives him motivation to play well but also takes the pressure off as he can be dropped for a few games and replaced by someone as effective. If Downing gets dropped, Liverpool fans go mad that 20m is sitting on the bench.

The same applies for virtually every position that Liverpool have invested in. We have one chance to get a signing right as if we don't, we are snookered on the pitch and we can't really afford to wait for the player to settle in - short tem immediate impacts is needed. Not so the case for United.

Imagine Liverrpol spent 8m on Hernandez back when United did.. He would probably be overplayed at this stage or sold for a cut price to a Spannish club.

Are you sure?? I'd say it's more likely that they'd ask 'what is he doing anywhere near Liverpool's bench!

RasTa

mike65 wrote: »

You have no past!

But you are right, this thread should be about the ongoing dysfunctional clusterfvck that is the Chelsea hierarchy.

Why do Liverpool fans always mention this no past or history crap? Who cares about the distant past anyway ie over 20 years.

monkey9

RasTa wrote: »

Why do Liverpool fans always mention this no past or history crap? Who cares about the distant past anyway ie over 20 years.

Because there's people out there who think Justin Bieber is better than The Beatles.

monkey9

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Can't blame Kenny though. It's sacreligious.

Blame Kenny for what??

RasTa

monkey9 wrote: »

Because there's people out there who think Justin Bieber is better than The Beatles.

Don't get this point. Did Chelsea not exist in the past or something?

CSF

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Giving that same money to AF and only giving the players 12 to 24 months to settle in would result in the exact same outcome as the players you listed.

The difference is that United can afford to be patient and will treat them as long them investments. Look at the money spent on Carrick, Anderson, Nani, DeGea or Jones.

All similar enough prices to what Liverpool spent and all started slowly. At various point since though, each have proven to be very important players for united and have shown the required ability.

Take United buying Young and Liverpool buying Downing. Young has gone into a team with genuine competition for his position - that competition gives him motivation to play well but also takes the pressure off as he can be dropped for a few games and replaced by someone as effective. If Downing gets dropped, Liverpool fans go mad that 20m is sitting on the bench.

The same applies for virtually every position that Liverpool have invested in. We have one chance to get a signing right as if we don't, we are snookered on the pitch and we can't really afford to wait for the player to settle in - short tem immediate impacts is needed. Not so the case for United.

Imagine Liverrpol spent 8m on Hernandez back when United did.. He would probably be overplayed at this stage or sold for a cut price to a Spannish club.

Of course the situation is better at United with Ferguson, but you still can't get away from the fact that none of the players I quoted above were worth close to what was paid for them, and aren't of the quality required for a club with a 75+ million kitty ready to propel themselves back to success.

Grayditch

RasTa wrote: »

Why do Liverpool fans always mention this no past or history crap? Who cares about the distant past anyway ie over 20 years.

Ha, yeah. Just Liverpool fans. I know loads of people who follow different teams and say it all the time. Same about City. The person who made the 'moving from Stamford Bridge and leaving behind a rich 7 year history' joke on Twitter wasn't a Liverpool fan, as far as I remember, but whatever fits into your agenda.

klose

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Can't blame Kenny though. It's sacreligious.

He got/ still gets plenty stick for his brief spell with us by many fans. Bs point tbh.


Should be an interesting summer at chelsea anyways, the new manager will assumably bet a war chest of money to spend again.