Force Majeure Question

Stheno

Kat1170 wrote: »

Hardly an unforseen circumstance, seems you can twist it to suit yourself same as OP :rolleyes:

I'm sorry I think that is a disgraceful statement.

My father was diagnosed as terminally ill with cancer, but with no timeframe.

I got a call in work one day that he had hours left, compared to the "weeks/months" the doctors had given two days before as he deteriorated quickly against doctors expectations.

FM was invaluable to me for the day and a half I got to spend with my father before he died, and not something I could have known in advance at all. It's something I was incredibly appreciative of, and admired my employers for being so good, my manager even offered to drive me 100 miles to the hospital my father was in, given the situation.

FM is there for valid reasons, but not for "I've no childcare arrangements in place" That's what AL is for.

amtc

tony81 wrote: »

Youre definitely taking the p155.. per citizen's information: It arises where, for urgent family reasons, the immediate presence of the employee is indispensable owing to an injury or illness of a close family member.

The washing machine does not constitute a close family member.

You don't know my family -

No, I had to take it as this as I had no AL left and this was my boss's suggestion - voluntarily gave up a day next leave year.

gozunda

Eoin wrote: »

No, you're making a strawman argument.

I still don't think you understand Force Majeure. It does not apply to child minding because alternatives are not available.

But do you think that's not what annual leave is for?

As the OP explained this was not a case of the OP not having normal child care arrangements. The OPs (separated ) other half had the child but then had to rely on the OP to take charge of the unplanned situation when her car broke down.

The OP was obliged to go and collect the child who was stranded alone without a known or responsible adult to take charge.

Any aditional activities - if they happened at all would be incidential to the primary request - which was to deal with an unforeseen emergency situation of a child left alone without the supervision of a trusted / responsible adult.

I really don't get it that in a country that so many things generally go by tand where there are many grey areas - that employees are often held to the button if their collar by some employers and all hell breaks lose if any genuine consideration or leeway is sought. It is really quite bizarre imo. As I recounted in a previous post - I have attended employer interests seminars where i found that similar attitudes were being preached and ingrained to the point where it resembled a political ideologocial rally.

At the end of the day Employees are human and we must accept this in order to maintain a healthy work environment without penalising employees with genuine issues or making such a big deal of these maters. To treat it otherwise defies any common sense or good management.

Nody

liger wrote: »

Like I said The law states FAMILY CRISIS, to me a child being left standing on the street is a crisis, but then when you read on it only mentions about illness. I was just looking for some opinions regarding if my situation is covered, seems like a split opinion and I think my boss is also of the opinion that its not.

Actually there's no split opinion at all; everyone agrees that according to the law your situation does NOT fall under the FM definition. Most if not all also agree that there should be a bit of give and take for situations like this (but that's not a law but more common sense/good policy) but assuming your local policy does not expand the definition of FM the reality of the situation is as follows:

You called in and said you'd not come to your shift with out a valid (by definition of FM as per the definition in law) reason to work that day and did not show up.

Everything beyond that is arguing about should be etc. but that's the position you're currently in. Hence when you meet your boss I'd be careful in the approach to it all because you're skating on very thin ice.

tatli_lokma

Kat1170 wrote: »

Hardly an unforseen circumstance, seems you can twist it to suit yourself same as OP :rolleyes:

Stheno wrote: »

I'm sorry I think that is a disgraceful statement.

Indeed Stheno, it is disgraceful. Kat1170 if you want to be technical about it and split hairs in such a unsavoury manner, then no death is unforseen, as we are all guaranteed to die. Death and taxes and all that.

However, the whens, wheres and why's are not always planned to a calendar or to an AL booking. Hence FM. My good friend recently died. She had been battling cancer for almost 13 years. Until 6 mths ago, she had been winning the battle. But six months ago the cancer finally managed to spread to her lymph nodes. She was advised 3 weeks ago that it had now spread to the brain was now a matter of months and she should get her affairs in order. The doctors conservatively said 3 mths. She died last week, 10 days after being told she had 3 months. These things cannot be held to a timetable.


Aside from all that, OP, I would suggest you offer to take AL, given that you have a carry over etc. At this stage, it is done with, you can't turn back the clock, you have already missed a days work. So if you reasonably present it to your boss that it would be better in fact for the company to give the day as AL, because then it would not be an additional day off paid, which would be the case if it were FM. If you explain to him/her that it was a once off, and not to become a regular thing and that you would appreciate their cooperation, you might be surprised. I'm not saying grovel, I'm just saying approach it in a reasonable manner and assure your boss that you are not intending to take the mick or misuse your leave, that it was an awkward situation and that in the circumstances unfortunately you had no option but to take the day off. Perhaps even point out, that you are being upfront about it and honest, when you could have just phoned in sick. The fact you would not misuse sick leave is a testiment to your work ethic normally, so remind him/her of this. If they stop and give it some thought, they might agree that it is best all round if the day is listed as AL.

As others said, many bosses will be reasonable and even offer to give you FM when you didn't request it. But it is at their discretion, so allow them to offer rather than just tell them this is what will happen.