Right to Die?

Cereal Number

Touchy subject, what are your views?

Me, you should have the right to a dignified death when your life is nothing more than pain. I dont see what the arguement by the state for making people suffer is; eg.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0228/breaking30.html

Dfmnoc

its not gods will, if he wants you to suffer than you shall suffer

orestes

If someone of sound mind has made the conscious decision to end their life it's fukk all to do with anybody else. Forcing somebody to live in constant pain is nothing more than torture, no matter how fancy you try to dress it up or what ideals you try to use to justify it.

enda1

Well you can't not believe in it. It exists. Maybe "agree with the legalisation of" would make more sense.

And yes I agree. Everyone should have the ultimate control over their life if possible. Since suicide had been decriminalised it is only natural that the state should find a means to allow those who can not perform the act unassisted, still to manage to perform the act.

We treat animals better than humans in this regard and it's a sad sad reflection on the value we put on pain and suffering.

Cereal Number

Dfmnoc wrote: »

its not gods will, if he wants you to suffer than you shall suffer

GTFO

CollardGreens

Why OP, you sick?

Cereal Number

CollardGreens wrote: »

Why OP, you sick?

No. Read the article

CollardGreens

its not Gods will, if he wants you to suffer than you shall suffer

Amen!

P_1

Again I'd use my 'people should be free to make their own choices and nobody should make them for them' argument here.

dsmythy

Does that include mental pain?

Cereal Number

dsmythy wrote: »

Does that include mental pain?

No. Physical pain eg. terminal cancer, MS.

SicklySweet

Cereal Number wrote: »

GTFO

You asked for people's views and you got his view on it...........:rolleyes:


I think it should definitely be legislated. I have an American friend who fights for it in the States, done some talks etc.
While i don't agree with suicide in general, i think it should be allowed for the terminal who would like to die with dignity.

ITS_A_BADGER

That poor woman should be allowed to have assisted suicide, shes gonna suffer more and more in the later stages of that illness and cant end her life because shes not able to do it on her own

orestes

Cereal Number wrote: »

No. Physical pain eg. terminal cancer, MS.

Why not mental suffering? I'm not saying people should commit suicide if they're having a bad day or something, but suffering can be mental as well as physical.

Cereal Number

SicklySweet wrote: »

You asked for people's views and you got his view on it...........:rolleyes:


I think it should definitely be legislated. I have an American friend who fights for it in the States, done some talks etc.
While i don't agree with suicide in general, i think it should be allowed for the terminal who would like to die with dignity.

I did. I dont believe in God, but I severly doubt if there was one he/she would make you suffer

ElleEm

Everyone should be allowed to decide when to die. Noone else is living their life but them.

This is a story close to my heart, as I was diagnosed with MS at 27 years old (2 years ago). I have Relapsing Remitting MS, which basically means I will have times where it affects me, then I will recover, then rinse and repeat. The times my symptoms are exacerbated may last for months at a time. MS is progressive, so it will get worse. If and when I get to the point where I cannot communicate or take care of my own toiletting, I will want to end it. I should be allowed to, as I am the one who would have to deal with the undignified existence the disease may lead me to.

F*ck the State!

Cereal Number

orestes wrote: »

Why not mental suffering?

Depression?

That can be treated vis a vis meds counselling etc.

Im talking about severe pain

CollardGreens

No. Read the article

Ok, I read it. In her case I think it's selfish, actually I think it's selfish in just about all cases. If somebody is being tortured every day by an outside force like having fingernails pulled out and eyes plunged then well, it would be better to be dead if there wasn't an end to it.

IMO we are not put here on this earth for ourselves, actually that is not really just my opinion but what the Bible says. Now I DO NOT want to open the Biblical issues in this thread because I realize that many here do not believe in God nor the Bible - just giving my opinion as to why I feel this way.

So my answer is no.

dave1982

Its euthanasia not assisted suicide.

Cereal Number

CollardGreens wrote: »

Ok, I read it. In her case I think it's selfish, actually I think it's selfish in just about all cases. If somebody is being tortured every day by an outside force like having fingernails pulled out and eyes plunged then well, it would be better to be dead if there wasn't an end to it.

IMO we are not put here on this earth for ourselves, actually that is not really just my opinion but what the Bible says. Now I DO NOT want to open the Biblical issues in this thread because I realize that many here do not believe in God nor the Bible - just giving my opinion as to why I feel this way.

So my answer is no.

Well seems to me the selfish one is you, lets see you suffer intense pain; and see do you still uphold your God values?

P_1

On the 'selfishness' argument.

Is it selfish of you to not want to go through constant physical and mental pain on a daily basis.

or

Is it selfish of others to want you to go through constant physical and mental pain on a daily basis just so they can still have you around?

I know which one I would say is the more selfish argument.

mickstupp

Cereal Number wrote: »

Depression?

That can be treated vis a vis meds counselling etc.

Im talking about severe pain

Depression is not always treatable by meds or counselling.
And it can very easily be severe pain.

krudler

dave1982 wrote: »

Its euthanasia not assisted suicide.

Eh no it isn't.

Crooked Jack

Dfmnoc wrote: »

its not gods will, if he wants you to suffer than you shall suffer

any God that would force someone to struggle through the last few weeks or months of a pain riddled life is not one worthy of my worship.

ElleEm

CollardGreens wrote: »

Ok, I read it. In her case I think it's selfish, actually I think it's selfish in just about all cases. If somebody is being tortured every day by an outside force like having fingernails pulled out and eyes plunged then well, it would be better to be dead if there wasn't an end to it.

IMO we are not put here on this earth for ourselves, actually that is not really just my opinion but what the Bible says. Now I DO NOT want to open the Biblical issues in this thread because I realize that many here do not believe in God nor the Bible - just giving my opinion as to why I feel this way.

So my answer is no.

So you would be happy enough to be effectively paralysed from the neck down for years and years. Having your husband/ wife/ kids spoonfeed you like a baby, change your nappies/ cathater, wipe your ar$e, wash you, dress you, all the while you may not be able to see/ speak/ swallow properly and be in constant pain in a variety of different ways?
I tell you, if you could put up with that, you're a strong person!

And it is absolutely not selfish. I'm sure this woman wants her husband and kids to have a life, and not be her carers. The complete lack of dignity she has really upsets me. MS eats away at you slowly, she gradually lost her ability to function, she has the right to say, "Look lads, I've had enough and I'm ready". This is only gonna get worse. She will gradually lose the ability to speak, then she is just this blob in a wheelchair who can't lift her own f*cking head. She should be let go.

catallus

dave1982 wrote: »

Its euthanasia not assisted suicide.

This, I think, is a good point.

The case before the court is about permitting people to be assisted to die without their assistant being culpable for an offence.

If the court says it's ok to help people to kill themselves, the argument is it would create situations where people would be killing off elderly relatives in order to get their money.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2013/0121/1224329096462.html?via=rel

wp_rathead

CollardGreens wrote: »

Ok, I read it. In her case I think it's selfish, actually I think it's selfish in just about all cases. If somebody is being tortured every day by an outside force like having fingernails pulled out and eyes plunged then well, it would be better to be dead if there wasn't an end to it.

IMO we are not put here on this earth for ourselves, actually that is not really just my opinion but what the Bible says. Now I DO NOT want to open the Biblical issues in this thread because I realize that many here do not believe in God nor the Bible - just giving my opinion as to why I feel this way.

So my answer is no.

IMO: In My Opinion

Now why should Your opinion weigh in on a person's right to die?

Cereal Number

mickstupp wrote: »

Depression is not always treatable by meds or counselling.
And it can very easily be severe pain.

At least you can give it a good shot at treatment; im talking about pain that isnt responding

CollardGreens

Well seems to me the selfish one is you, lets see you suffer intense pain; and see do you still uphold your God values?

Thank you for your concern. This is another case whereas you know nothing about me. I AM in intense pain daily and cannot take the medications for it because my body rejects them. And for your second sentence, YES, I still uphold Gods values!

P_1

CollardGreens wrote: »

Thank you for your concern. This is another case whereas you know nothing about me. I AM in intense pain daily and cannot take the medications for it because my body rejects them. And for your second sentence, YES, I still uphold Gods values!

I admire your principles and in no way am I telling you what decisions that impact on you personally should you take but do you have the right to tell other people what decisions that impact on them personally should they take?

orestes

Cereal Number wrote: »

Depression?

That can be treated vis a vis meds counselling etc.

Im talking about severe pain

I'm not saying mental illness can't be treated, and depression is only one of many many many mental illnesses, but if treatment isn't ending the suffering then why shouldn't the person be allowed to end their own lives?

Mental pain can be severe too, in some cases the mind will even shut itself down when it is traumatised too much and can't continue to function. What if the counselling and anti-depressants don't relieve a persons suffering to the point where they can function without constant pain and their quality of life is pretty much zero?

If we were to allow people to end their lives to avoid suffering when treatment is no longer a viable option I don't see why those who are suffering mentally should be forced to endure it while those who are suffering physically are allowed to choose to die.

vitani

Cereal Number wrote: »

At least you can give it a good shot at treatment; im talking about pain that isnt responding

It's an interesting point. What about somebody who's been depressed for years and no medication or treatment has worked. Should they go on suffering?

CollardGreens

So you would be happy enough to be effectively paralysed from the neck down for years and years. Having your husband/ wife/ kids spoonfeed you like a baby, change your nappies/ cathater, wipe your ar$e, wash you, dress you, all the while you may not be able to see/ speak/ swallow properly and be in constant pain in a variety of different ways?
I tell you, if you could put up with that, you're a strong person!

I'm sorry you hurt and trust me, I do feel your pain (just not giving all the details to a bunch of strangers on the internet).

My strength comes from God, if it weren't for HIM, I probably would want to die.

No matter how bad I hurt I'm still going to tell others about Jesus till the day I die, He is the one I answer too and He is the one I'm accountable too - not people.

CollardGreens

I admire your principles and in no way am I telling you what decisions that impact on you personally should you take but do you have the right to tell other people what decisions that impact on them personally should they take?

No, I'm not telling other people what to do and I would never do so. The question was (if I understood it correct) did I "believe" in it - no, I think it is wrong. I only make decisions for myself, the OP was what our thoughts were on it...right?!

brummytom

CollardGreens wrote: »

Ok, I read it. In her case I think it's selfish, actually I think it's selfish in just about all cases. If somebody is being tortured every day by an outside force like having fingernails pulled out and eyes plunged then well, it would be better to be dead if there wasn't an end to it.

IMO we are not put here on this earth for ourselves, actually that is not really just my opinion but what the Bible says. Now I DO NOT want to open the Biblical issues in this thread because I realize that many here do not believe in God nor the Bible - just giving my opinion as to why I feel this way.

So my answer is no.

If God wants people to carry on living in pain, suffering and humiliation, then he's a right cunt.

ElleEm

CollardGreens wrote: »

I'm sorry you hurt and trust me, I do feel your pain (just not giving all the details to a bunch of strangers on the internet).

My strength comes from God, if it weren't for HIM, I probably would want to die.

No matter how bad I hurt I'm still going to tell others about Jesus till the day I die, He is the one I answer too and He is the one I'm accountable too - not people.

I admire your faith, and your ability to allow "God" to do whatever he pleases with your body, but that is YOU.
Most people want to be in control of their own lives, and cannot allow the will of a supposed higher power to do what he/she pleases.
This woman should have the ability to choose whatever she wants to do. You choose to believe in God having a plan for why he is putting you through so much pain, this woman doesn't. All this woman experiences is her family attending to her like she is a little incapable baby. It is not fair that she is suffering.

Hilly Bill

If the person that wants to die cant do it themselves then its murder if someone does it for them. If the husband in this case wants to end his wife's suffering that much then why hasnt he done it by now?
Wouldnt a few years in jail be a small price to pay for ending the suffering of your loved one?

It shouldnt become law but a bit of leniency maybe towards the husband in this case if he kills his wife to end her suffering .

P_1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If the person that wants to die cant do it themselves then its murder if someone does it for them. If the husband in this case wants to end his wife's suffering that much then why hasnt he done it by now?
Wouldnt a few years in jail be a small price to pay for ending the suffering of your loved one?

It shouldnt become law but a bit of leniency maybe towards the husband in this case if he kills his wife to end her suffering .

I guess that's part of a wider political/philosophical question.

'Normal' society works by us allowing a higher authority to essentially tell us how to live our lives to some degree. The question is how high of a degree should we allow this authority to tell us how to live our lives.

ElleEm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If the person that wants to die cant do it themselves then its murder if someone does it for them. If the husband in this case wants to end his wife's suffering that much then why hasnt he done it by now?
Wouldnt a few years in jail be a small price to pay for ending the suffering of your loved one?

It shouldnt become law but a bit of leniency maybe towards the husband in this case if he kills his wife to end her suffering .

]

They don't want to commit a crime, they want to do it legally. I, and many like me, are thankful that they are setting precidence in Irish courts.

ITS_A_BADGER

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If the person that wants to die cant do it themselves then its murder if someone does it for them. If the husband in this case wants to end his wife's suffering that much then why hasnt he done it by now?
Wouldnt a few years in jail be a small price to pay for ending the suffering of your loved one?

It shouldnt become law but a bit of leniency maybe towards the husband in this case if he kills his wife to end her suffering .

She probably doesnt want him to go to jail just because he helped her end her misery and the jail term can be up to 14 years :eek:

CollardGreens

If God wants people to carry on living in pain, suffering and humiliation, then he's a right

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

I have not suffered near as much as Jesus did, nor Paul for that matter.

Again, the OP was about our view on the subject. You obviously voted yes. With your attitude you might want to question the pain and suffering AFTER you die....just a thought.

Have a happy day!

dave1982

krudler wrote: »

Eh no it isn't.

Assisted suicide is where some helps some one to take there own life, which I think allows it to be abused.People attempting to help someone die what if goes wrong and its not successful.This I would be against.

Euthanasia you go to hospital where a doctor can inject a lethal dose that is painless.

Cereal Number

CollardGreens wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

I have not suffered near as much as Jesus did, nor Paul for that matter.

Again, the OP was about our view on the subject. You obviously voted yes. With your attitude you might want to question the pain and suffering AFTER you die....just a thought.

Have a happy day!

I will have a crappy day knowing that people hold such views

catallus

I know that if a friend or relative, in a physical situation that they found to be so painful or gruelling or abjectly hopeless, such as paralysis or whatever neurological or nerve problem you could mention, asked me to kill them, I would.

This talk of god having a plan for you as an individual is all very well until you are placed in a situation that you are never going to be able to do anything for yourself or for anyone else. I know the various churches of all faiths are against killing, but they can talk all they like, the arguments they espouse have been undermined when they relinquished authority to the secular powers, so it is just another opinion.

Cereal Number

CollardGreens wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

It would help your case if that actually happened........

Hilly Bill

ElleEm wrote: »

]

They don't want to commit a crime, they want to do it legally. I, and many like me, are thankful that they are setting precidence in Irish courts.

I understand but the only solution would be for the courts to show some compassion during sentencing and give a 10 year suspended sentence or something. Making it legal to kill somebody even if its only for the terminally ill will open up the flood gates to some to get killed against their wishes for reasons of greed etc like what was said by another poster earlier.
How will it affect the death insurance claims etc? it will make them null and void.

P_1

CollardGreens wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

I have not suffered near as much as Jesus did, nor Paul for that matter.

Again, the OP was about our view on the subject. You obviously voted yes. With your attitude you might want to question the pain and suffering AFTER you die....just a thought.

Have a happy day!

You're making a key misassumption here in that you assume that everybody on this thread is of a religious background.

Hilly Bill

ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »

She probably doesnt want him to go to jail just because he helped her end her misery and the jail term can be up to 14 years :eek:

That goes without saying but whats the best option? another 14 years of pain or 14 years in jail? If the courts show compassion afterwards then he might not see the inside of the jail .

wp_rathead

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I understand but the only solution would be for the courts to show some compassion during sentencing and give a 10 year suspended sentence or something. Making it legal to kill somebody even if its only for the terminally ill will open up the flood gates to some to get killed against their wishes for reasons of greed etc like what was said by another poster earlier.
How will it affect the death insurance claims etc? it will make them null and void.

Hilly Bill you sound like those that say "Sure we don't need abortion, can't they just get the boat/plane to England"

StinkyMunkey

CollardGreens wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

I have not suffered near as much as Jesus did, nor Paul for that matter.

Again, the OP was about our view on the subject. You obviously voted yes. With your attitude you might want to question the pain and suffering AFTER you die....just a thought.

Have a happy day!

While the OP's post is of a serious nature, i do believe that a person should be allowed to chose how they leave this world.

When i think of Jesus - this comes to mind and sums it up better than i could:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESJh-AqMJaA

krudler

CollardGreens wrote: »

So what I'm hearing is that His pain and suffering and humiliation on the CROSS FOR YOU was for nothing :rolleyes:

I have not suffered near as much as Jesus did, nor Paul for that matter.

Again, the OP was about our view on the subject. You obviously voted yes. With your attitude you might want to question the pain and suffering AFTER you die....just a thought.

Have a happy day!

Since it never happened, yes.