Code.org

BobbyPropane

It's about time a large campaign was run but I can only see people thinking that the only jobs are coding related and so studying say Computer Science in Uni despite not liking it. This is what happens a lot in Ireland particularly in Computer Science Courses which usually have the highest drop out rates.

Anyway thoughts?

Unregistered.

I see no problem so long as the universities don't lower their standards to reduce the drop out rate. One could argue that we should see more schools teach basic medicine and or first aid. Or the rules of the road since the public roads are used by motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike.

There is a whole bunch of useful skills not thought in schools. I'm not sure if learning to program should be in the main curriculum. Schools should teach the basics to enable people to have the skills to go on to further education. IMO programming is not one of those.

KonFusion

BobbyPropane wrote: »

It's about time a large campaign was run but I can only see people thinking that the only jobs are coding related and so studying say Computer Science in Uni despite not liking it.

My understanding is that this is targeting kids, and at a low level, getting them to understand the logic behind code, rather than a specific language (initially anyway). So I don't think that will be a problem.

If anything the problem you mention will remain, but I don't think this will exacerbate it; if anything it should do the opposite, and educate kids earlier as to what programming actually involves, so they can make a more informed decision when choosing a uni course.

It's fantastic. It's amazing. It's about time and hopefully it'll kick global education curriculum into action.

I love the marketing. "Great coders are today's rock stars" - Now that's propaganda I can buy into!

BobbyPropane

KonFusion wrote: »

My understanding is that this is targeting kids, and at a low level, getting them to understand the logic behind code, rather than a specific language (initially anyway). So I don't think that will be a problem.

If anything the problem you mention will remain, but I don't think this will exacerbate it; if anything it should do the opposite, and educate kids earlier as to what programming actually involves, so they can make a more informed decision when choosing a uni course.

It's fantastic. It's amazing. It's about time and hopefully it'll kick global education curriculum into action.

I love the marketing. "Great coders are today's rock stars" - Now that's propaganda I can buy into!

Great point, education in programming from a younger age would be a good solution to this problem

SalteeDog

Every primary school kid should get a chance to learn scratch. It's brilliant.

GavinFlud

It's definitely a campaign I am fully behind. I don't buy into the ridiculous argument that everyone, no matter what profession they are in, should know how to code. What I do buy into is finding a way to teach kids about logic and problem-solving. If the best (or most interesting) way to do that is through programming then it should be pushed into the public eye. It doesn't necessarily mean they will still be coding later in life, but they will have built that bedrock of knowledge for problem-solving which can be applied in many different environments.

ChRoMe

GavinFlud wrote: »

It's definitely a campaign I am fully behind. I don't buy into the ridiculous argument that everyone, no matter what profession they are in, should know how to code. What I do buy into is finding a way to teach kids about logic and problem-solving. If the best (or most interesting) way to do that is through programming then it should be pushed into the public eye. It doesn't necessarily mean they will still be coding later in life, but they will have built that bedrock of knowledge for problem-solving which can be applied in many different environments.

Keep it a black art, we will get paid more.

Goodshape

I like the comparison with sports.

Everyone has to do an hour of Physical Education each week (if I remember correctly) while a subset might choose to do much more than that. Those that do choose more are actively encouraged with after-school activities, lunch-time activites, organised school teams, tournaments, competitions, etc.

Something similar should exist for coding.

Creamy Goodness

There's absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging kids to problem solve.

Tad but jealous that things like this weren't around when I was a boy

hfallada

I think it's fine in America where schools are huge with proper facilities as thats one of the places property taxes are spent. I can't see it working here. Most schools computers as useless and i can't it being big enough for a Lc subject.

Maybe they could encourage it more at college. In state of bs subjects everyone drops after first year

KonFusion

hfallada wrote: »

I think it's fine in America where schools are huge with proper facilities as thats one of the places property taxes are spent. I can't see it working here. Most schools computers as useless and i can't it being big enough for a Lc subject.

It is working here though? There are a great many people volunteering their time in coder-dojos and after school code clubs around the country.

I'd also argue that most, if not all, school computers can handle scratch, and any scripting really.

And it's easily big enough for a leaving cert subject. A Bulgarian friend of mine came out of second level education with skills in C & C++, and a good understanding of computer architecture.

Encouraging it more in college is pointless. It needs to be thought from a foundation level, like all other subjects, right up to 3rd level.

Sparks

KonFusion wrote: »

I love the marketing. "Great coders are today's rock stars" - Now that's propaganda I can buy into!

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

Sparks

Goodshape wrote: »

Something similar should exist for coding.

Engineers Ireland ran a Micromouse competition a few years (okay a decade) ago; things like that (and Robocup and all the other similar IEEE-type competitions) are all great starting points.

Tom_Cruise

Would the majority of people be capable of learning how to code? Or is it s skill that some people just really struggle with? Just a general question.

Sparks

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Would the majority of people be capable of learning how to code?

Yes.
Code well? Probably not.
I don't think the majority of people would want to code at all though.

Tom_Cruise

Sparks wrote: »

Yes.
Code well? Probably not.
I don't think the majority of people would want to code at all though.

Thanks for the reply.

One more question while i have your attention (i really don't have anyone else i can ask)

Is coding skill that anyone can learn with enough practice, time, hard work and effort?

Sparks

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

One more question while i have you attention (i really don't have anyone i can ask)
Is coding skill that anyone can learn with enough practice, time,hardwork and effort?

Um. Well, yes, but to what level is another question. I don't think everyone can get to a level where they have fun doing it, let alone earn money from it; same as how I think not everyone can learn to run at an Olympic standard, even if everyone can learn to run to some degree of proficiency.

Tom_Cruise

Sparks wrote: »

Um. Well, yes, but to what level is another question. I don't think everyone can get to a level where they have fun doing it, let alone earn money from it; same as how I think not everyone can learn to run at an Olympic standard, even if everyone can learn to run to some degree of proficiency.

OK, i understand what you mean. Thanks for answering my questions, i appreciate it.

batistuta9

Sparks wrote: »

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

Will.I.Am's big in learning coding/teaching people to code from a young age, once the masses of females learn about this ie he likes it so it's cool

It'll be like Harry Styles said to your man that won XFactor "Think how much pussy you gonna get"

Sparks

Oh dear god.
It's bad enough that two of the biggest <pick your own expletive here>'s in the history of the industry are the poster boys grinning out from the top of this thread like the life lessons from It's a wonderful life*, but Will.I.Am??? Can't we even find someone to do this whose parents could spell properly when filling in a birth certificate?

I mean, what's wrong with Steve Wozniak? It's even what he does for a living these days. Or John Carmack? Or Markus Persson (hell, he's even done his own film already, he'd be used to it by now). You know, nice people who've done cool and interesting things. Not <seriously, choose an expletive, but it won't be worse than the one I'm thinking>s who steal other peoples ideas or who claim to be great self-made millionaires while omitting to mention the millions of dollars they had in trust funds before soiling their first nappy...

/mutter

So many good positive role models and we go with <wow, we can't use that word in here> and Mc<seriously, not that one either> up there? For <oh god my eyes...> sake...






* not that thing about an angel's wings, the lesson where you can steal thousands of dollars from broke people and get away with it and society will socialise the loss... holy ****, that's where they got the idea?! DAMN YOU CAPRA!!!!

KonFusion

Looks like it might be time to put sparks out to pasture :rolleyes:

I get where you're coming from, but kids don't know this stuff. They'll see William and think it's cool by association.

Kids know him. Even really young kids. He's on the nickelodeon awards and ****e like that. And while I agree they could have gotten someone better, it's still better than nothing. (Maybe not to you I guess :P)

Kids won't know anyone who you've mentioned.

Nobody will ever ask John Carmack to host the Kids Choice Awards. Ever. :pac:

And Steve Wozniak? Seriously? Kids won't even be able to pronounce his name

Sparks

KonFusion wrote: »

I get where you're coming from, but kids don't know this stuff. They'll see William and think it's cool by association.

Kids know him. Even really young kids. He's on the nickelodeon awards and ****e like that. And while I agree they could have gotten someone better, it's still better than nothing. (Maybe not to you I guess :P)

And kids don't know minecraft?

Kids won't know anyone who you've mentioned.

Nope.
But they know minecraft.
And they know rocket ships.
And they think those things are.... do we still say cool? Or are we back to hip?

Point is, who gives a kuatloo what some old fart that wrote a bit of a bad port of a less-than-stellar operating system thirty years go has to say when you're ten, when there are games to play and rockets to build?

In other words, what the hell are we doing showing them Bill Gates when we want to show them coding and general interest in STEM? Don't have a face at all, have a voiceover and keep the picture on the cool stuff.

Seriously, which do you think a ten-year-old will be more interested in looking at, this:



or this?



I know which I'd choose...

Goodshape

More annoying than Gates or Zuckerberg I thought were the too-many lifestyle shots of playground offices and bright sunny days. Hand-in-hand with the "today's rockstars" thing I guess. Going to be some disappointed kids.


But I suppose they have their target audience in mind. The people that'd appreciate what we'd appreciate, probably don't need so much convincing.

Supermensch

From my experience, I've found an understanding of electronics more useful than the ability to programme (for lay people, that is to say). Beyond writing some bash script, I've never actually had to write code to solve a problem I've had with a computer. Moreover, the direction computers and devices are moving in is only to restrict what the user can run on their device, the iPhone being a good example of this. So I don't buy into the statement that everyone should know how to programme simply because computers are everywhere.

GavinFlud

Goodshape wrote: »

More annoying than Gates or Zuckerberg I thought were the too-many lifestyle shots of playground offices and bright sunny days. Hand-in-hand with the "today's rockstars" thing I guess. Going to be some disappointed kids.


But I suppose they have their target audience in mind. The people that'd appreciate what we'd appreciate, probably don't need so much convincing.

That's exactly what I thought. Though I suppose it's pretty hard to get kids excited about programming if you show them a guy pulling his hair out trying to debug his code.

In all seriousness though, I suppose it does help by showing them the types of places they could get to work if they eventually took programming on as a career path.

Sparks

GavinFlud wrote: »

In all seriousness though, I suppose it does help by showing them the types of places they could get to work if they eventually took programming on as a career path.

The more I think about it, the less I think that's right.
I'm probably bringing my own biases to it, I suppose, but the reason I do what I do is that I like to build stuff and see stuff work. When I was a kid, what got me excited about this job was things like these:









It was never about people or the offices they worked in. It was always about cool stuff I could build. If it wasn't "stuff", I had no interest then, and I still have no interest now. Honestly, I look at the google offices and I just don't see the point - if I want to play foosball, I'll go do it with friends outside the office.

Frankly, having my own office instead of being stuck in a giant cubicle farm would be far more appealing than everything being brightly painted like a creche... but I digress.

My point is that it's cringeworthy to watch people like the <beeep>s in the video in the OP trying to sell coding as a hobby. Screw that noise. Show the cool stuff, don't even bother selling it. End result, you get the people who're going to like their jobs rather than the people who hate them and either quit or become a reason for others to quit.


I may not be articulating this particularly well

ChRoMe

Sparks wrote: »

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little...

Agreed, I've always preferred to be called a "ninja"

Sparks

ChRoMe wrote: »

Agreed, I've always preferred to be called a "ninja"

Ugh. Urk. Feck. Damn carrots....

amen

Sparks Which Aircraft has a cockpit like that ? Is it SpaceShip One?

Sparks

amen wrote: »

Sparks Which Aircraft has a cockpit like that ? Is it SpaceShip One?

Yeah, and I know they're not Armadillo, but it's not like this isn't cool either, it's just that the electronics and software are harder to see from here:

Sparks

<offtopic>Coincidentally...</offtopic>