Fan is not working in Potterton Mini Minder ES

mossey79

Today our Potterton Mini Minder ES boiler stopped working. When we turn on the heating, there is a clicking/scrapping sound. I opened it up and it's the fan. I've the fan out, could it be a bearing is gone or does the fan need to be replaced. If so does anyone know where I could get a fan for this boiler? Please help, it's cold ........

shane0007

You took the fan out of what?

mossey79

Out of the boiler

JohnnieK

If your an RGI you should know;)

mossey79

Ok so my old man took it out, he's a retired plumber. Anyone know if the fan itself can be fixed or where I can get a new fan for this type of boiler?

shane0007

mossey79 wrote: »

Ok so my old man took it out, he's a retired plumber. Anyone know if the fan itself can be fixed or where I can get a new fan for this type of boiler?

I give up!

shane0007

& I'm not going to tell you the problem only to say you could well have a nice new shiney fan in your boiler with the same problem, i.e. not working!

Get an RGI, it's the LAW!!!

mossey79

Sorry Shane, can you elaborate a bit more. The fan is still in it's housing you might call it. Turning the fan by hand it still makes the same noise it was in the boiler. If that's any help.

mossey79

ok thanks lads

sullzz

shane0007 wrote: »

I give up!

youtheman

My house originally had a Myson Potterton boiler fitted (early 1990's). Every house in the estate developed the same problem, and the cause was the fan. The bearings became sticky and the fan wouldn't start. I used to keep my going by lubricating the bearings on the fan, but I eventually had to replace it.

The replacement fan was significantly different in that there has a big 'heat sink' on the end of the fan shaft (essentially a large aluminium disc). There was obviously a design fualt with the original in that the bearings were not able to handle the heat.

Can't remember where I got it, but it was a local Heatmerchant type shop.

shane0007

youtheman wrote: »

My house originally had a Myson Potterton boiler fitted (early 1990's). Every house in the estate developed the same problem, and the cause was the fan. The bearings became sticky and the fan wouldn't start. I used to keep my going by lubricating the bearings on the fan, but I eventually had to replace it.

The replacement fan was significantly different in that there has a big 'heat sink' on the end of the fan shaft (essentially a large aluminium disc). There was obviously a design fualt with the original in that the bearings were not able to handle the heat.

Can't remember where I got it, but it was a local Heatmerchant type shop.

And I suppose you are a registered gas installer?

sullzz

shane0007 wrote: »

And I suppose you are a registered gas installer?

Your going to have a nervous breakdown Shane

youtheman

shane0007 wrote: »

And I suppose you are a registered gas installer?

Is there a problem with with the information I have offered ?.

Play the ball, not the man !!!!!!!!!!

shane0007

youtheman wrote: »

Is there a problem with with the information I have offered ?.

Yes

youtheman

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes

Well I suggest you get over it.

shane0007

youtheman wrote: »

Well I suggest you get over it.

Thank you. Advice greatly appreciated. I will very much try.

corkgsxr

shane0007 wrote: »

Thank you. Advice greatly appreciated. I will very much try.

O Jaysus. Id say that was the friendly response

shane0007

corkgsxr wrote: »

O Jaysus. Id say that was the friendly response

If Youtheman is not an registered gas installer, with his intelligent responses then he is big and bold enough to replace a fan on a gas boiler. If he is also big and bold enough to do that, I assume he values his own family and the families surrounding him, and after that assumption, I could further assume that if the said described boiler is a Band D boiler he carried out critical checks to ensure the flue was properly sealed and no POC's are leaking. I could also further assume that he carried out further checks to ensure that he did not unknowingly disturb any other critical safety features of that boiler that are interlocked with the fan or even the ones that are not interlocked with it.
Finally, I could assume that he carried out a full gas soundness test of the appliance that he worked on as this is also a requirement of law following repair works and he carried out a flue gas analysis test of the POC's to confirm the fan is indeed working as its correct speed & omitting the POC's as the manufacturer intended it to.

My, my, isn't it very simple to change a simple fan in a gas boiler!!! And even easier to purchase one....

Isn't a life so very cheap nowadays when it is more important to save a few bucks in a recession than to do a job safely and to obey the law?

Working on gas boilers isn't rocket science but there's a reason why it's not a DIY subject, I have worked on boilers for years and at times I'm not the sharpest knife in the box and i'v got hurt, once badly when I was electrocuted which was very nearly the end of me, a friend of mine got burnt to the bone at British Gas because he ended up hugging a boiler that wasn't earthed properly,  

What makes things dangerous is at times boilers can have no earths, have power coming in outside of the boiler isolation, reverse polarity and a few other things that need to be looked for before anybody goes hands on.

I personally don't care if someone has a go themselves (although the law thinks otherwise)as that's natural selection in action but I do like to give a friendly warning, which is I wouldn't work on any gas boiler without doing my safety checks first so to do otherwise is very silly.

Before I'm accused of being a scare munger, I honestly don't care if someone is stupid enough to go at a boiler, but I am grumpy about the idea of DIY gas fitting because if I can get hurt and I'm supposed to know better then its silly to say there is no risks involved, unless I'm the fruitloop which is always a possibility.

corkgsxr

I wasn't criticizing. Just thought it funny.

youtheman

There seems to be a suggestion here that onlt RGIs know about 'gas safety'. Oh what an insular little world you guys live in.

I have over 20 years experience in the sharp end of the gas business. I have been involved in the design and upgrade of gas separators, gas compressors, gas meters, gas burners, (up to 5,000,000 btus/hrs), gas pipelines, gas chromotographs, etc. And when it comes to 'gas boilers' I've been involved is the design and upgrade of main burners, pilots burners, shutdown valves, pressure relief valves, bursting discs, flame arrestors, forced draft fans, pressure switches, temperature switches, flame detectors, active fire supression systems, dampers etc.

Oh, as regards Gas Safety I've been involved in Safety Cases, QRAs, HAZOPS, HAZIDS, etc.

So rest assured, I can sleep well at night as I am well able to look after the safety of my gas appliance.

And for the record, there is a big difference between 'breaking containment' (as we said in the business) and not (which I never do). I replaced the fan with an OEM part.

shane0007

youtheman wrote: »

There seems to be a suggestion here that onlt RGIs know about 'gas safety'. Oh what an insular little world you guys live in.

I have over 20 years experience in the sharp end of the gas business. I have been involved in the design and upgrade of gas separators, gas compressors, gas meters, gas burners, (up to 5,000,000 btus/hrs), gas pipelines, gas chromotographs, etc. And when it comes to 'gas boilers' I've been involved is the design and upgrade of main burners, pilots burners, shutdown valves, pressure relief valves, bursting discs, flame arrestors, forced draft fans, pressure switches, temperature switches, flame detectors, active fire supression systems, dampers etc.

Oh, as regards Gas Safety I've been involved in Safety Cases, QRAs, HAZOPS, HAZIDS, etc.

So rest assured, I can sleep well at night as I am well able to look after the safety of my gas appliance.

And for the record, there is a big difference between 'breaking containment' (as we said in the business) and not (which I never do). I replaced the fan with an OEM part.

Therefore, you of all people should know that you must be registered with RGII to carry said works on a domestic appliance and if you are not registered, then you have committed a criminal offence.
The only time you do not have to be registered to work on a domestic gas appliance is in a training centre or in the factory that the appliance is being manufactured & tested.
Nobody suggested that only RGI's know about gas safety, that would be just stupid. The only suggestion was if you wish to work on a domestic gas appliance installed in house, you must be gas registered.
You promoted to a homeowner that you changed the gas boiler fan that you purchased in Heatmerchants! So not only you committed a criminal offence if you are not gas registered but you are advising a homeowner to do the same with no word of caution!

youtheman

youtheman wrote: »

There seems to be a suggestion here that onlt RGIs know about 'gas safety'. Oh what an insular little world you guys live in.

I have over 20 years experience in the sharp end of the gas business. I have been involved in the design and upgrade of gas separators, gas compressors, gas meters, gas burners, (up to 5,000,000 btus/hrs), gas pipelines, gas chromotographs, etc. And when it comes to 'gas boilers' I've been involved is the design and upgrade of main burners, pilots burners, shutdown valves, pressure relief valves, bursting discs, flame arrestors, forced draft fans, pressure switches, temperature switches, flame detectors, active fire supression systems, dampers etc.

Oh, as regards Gas Safety I've been involved in Safety Cases, QRAs, HAZOPS, HAZIDS, etc.

So rest assured, I can sleep well at night as I am well able to look after the safety of my gas appliance.

And for the record, there is a big difference between 'breaking containment' (as we said in the business) and not (which I never do). I replaced the fan with an OEM part.

You could be the greatest gas fitter ever that's not the point, before Rgii, before Corgi my advise was always same, Don't touch gas:eek:, I can't see what the problem is and for a man who is experienced in gas as yourself to be so dismissive of gas safety identifies your lack of experiance in my field or understanding of what can happen when unskilled use a public forum as refererance for gas work.

Would it be acceptable for someone to do your job safely only armed with a iPad and friendly advise, how many people have the understanding you have my well educated friend, if you were a jobbing gas fitter you would understand why gas fitters hate messers:mad:, it has nothing to do with protecting the inner sanctum of a gas society, that's silly, I am a gas fitter, I have duty of care, I have seen what can happen at times when people make mistakes, some people need protecting from themselves for their family's sake if not there own, It's quite frustrating and insulting when my reasons for not wanting unskilled working on gas are assumed to be anything else other than wanting people not to hurt themselves.

I don't like or want to deal with again the aftermath of stupidity, it's my experiences of past stupidities that leads me to believe people shouldn't be working on boilers using info from a public forum, I didn't see a warning in your post about checking if the boilers is electrically safe or anything else I do before going hands on, there are more boilers than there should be not isolated or earthed properly, but I'm sure everyone would check that first.


I'll carry on giving my warnings and leave it to the clever ones who think they know my job better than me to determine my reason(must be the money), the fundamental difference is you think it's difficult for things to go pear shaped but I know how easy accidents and mistakes occur. as i'v made some myself.

youtheman

I'm not an RGI, but then again I don't look to RGI for my safety cues when it comes to gas. I use the vast experience I have gained on all types of gas appliances.

And by the way, I didn't work on 'gas', I replaced a mechanical part on the 'safe' non-hazardous side of the boiler (with an original part). You can quote "but that is against the law", but the law never made me safer in the gas industry.

So I replaced the fan, and subsequent services by RGIs passed the boiler - go figure.

And finally, I didn't advise anyone to do anything. I was hoping to show that you could identify the source of a problem by simple diagnostics.

Dtp79

youtheman wrote: »

I'm not an RGI, but then again I don't look to RGI for my safety cues when it comes to gas. I use the vast experience I have gained on all types of gas appliances.

And by the way, I didn't work on 'gas', I replaced a mechanical part on the 'safe' non-hazardous side of the boiler (with an original part). You can quote "but that is against the law", but the law never made me safer in the gas industry.

So I replaced the fan, and subsequent services by RGIs passed the boiler - go figure.

And finally, I didn't advise anyone to do anything. I was hoping to show that you could identify the source of a problem by simple diagnostics.

Once you take the cover off the boiler you're breaking the law

sullzz

youtheman wrote: »

And by the way, I didn't work on 'gas', I replaced a mechanical part on the 'safe' non-hazardous side of the boiler (with an original part). You can quote "but that is against the law", but the law never made me safer in the gas industry. go figure.

what boiler was it . was it a room sealed boiler , i presume you had to break the casing seals to get access to the fan , did you carry out a case seal test when finished , so whats the purpose of the fan in the boiler , how can you say its non hazardous , is it because you didnt smell gas ? you dont need me to tell you that CO is odourless , its well advertised , but i suppose it doesnt stop people tampering with their appliances .

youtheman

youtheman wrote: »

And by the way, I didn't work on 'gas', I replaced a mechanical part on the 'safe' non-hazardous side of the boiler (with an original part). You can quote "but that is against the law", but the law never made me safer in the gas industry.

You still don't get it, which is fine because it's your lack of experience that allows you to come to a different conclusion than myself or understand the ease at which things go wrong without good working practise.

You keep mentioning how capable you are, that isn't the point I'm making, most people don't have your vast extensive experience and shouldn't be encouraged to work on their gas boilers, your trying to normalise it.

People do work on their own boilers and as you so happily profess it does work for some, it would be silly to say otherwise, but I'm telling you for others it doesn't, it can end in tears, it's for that reason it should be frowned upon, your risk assessment isn't based on practical boiler experience, where's I have over 25 years of it(for my sins).

Let's talk about the law for a minute, gas has been around long before laws came in, I have been a domestic gas engineer much longer than the law stopping you, the reason for these laws is to prevent death and injury and not to protect fat assed gas fitters like me from competition, saying the law never made you safer is missing the point as its working to gas regs that would make you safer, the law is there to stop people who don't meet the criteria away from doing harm.

gifted

Interesting thread...my thoughts for what they are worth is that it's only human nature that someone would try and fix something in their own house cos they think they are saving money. However, when it comes to working on a gas appliance, there are laws and only qualified people who are registered with the RGII are legally allowed to work on them. What I find frustrating is that while only RGII members can work on a gas appliance, any tom dick or harry can go into a shop and buy parts for a gas appliance and promptly go home and strip down a gas appliance and put it back together again.
In my opinion, an RGII card should have to be produced in the shop if someone wants to purchase gas parts. This would go a long way in stopping non qualified people from working on gas appliances.
For the record, I did the GIS,GIS courses and became a member of the RGII ( through the company I was working with at the time ), even though I don't do domestic plumbing. One day they sent me down to a housing estate to commission a load of house, honest to god, it was like looking up a bulls hole every time I took the cover off a boiler . The first day was spent studying the boiler information booklet , took me a good few days to get the hang of it but got their in the end, very slowly though, made sure every box was ticked Told the company after a few weeks that I'm not interested in doing that type of work anymore, promptly left the RGII .
My point is that someone may be a member of the RGII, but they might know nothing about boilers. You need to be continuously working on gas appliances to get the experience needed to become proficient.
Sorry for wasting 3 min of your lives

MiniGolf

Just watching Casualty that I recorded earlier.....
The story line is about a non-qualified person that fits a new fan to a boiler and it blows up! Might be a wake-up call for some!!!