Waterford Airport

man98

By entering a franchise agreement with Aer Lingus, who don't have much a scope for expansion through regional airports, as they wanted connecting TATL passengers.

CelticRambler

man98 wrote: »

... profit is profit at the end of the day ...

Not so: some profit is not as attractive as more profit, and resources are finite so will always be allocated to the route (or base) that offers more profit.

The timing of this announcement is unfortunate as it will inevitably provoke discussion about Flybe and distract from the creation of the new services. However, as of today, all Waterford City and County councillors, and the airport management know that there are two continental routes available for the taking (Antwerp and Central France), and the possibility of adding speciality domestic and western UK flights too.

man98

man98 wrote: »

By entering a franchise agreement with Aer Lingus, who don't have much a scope for expansion through regional airports, as they wanted connecting TATL passengers.

Then surely they enslaved themselves to Aer Lingus not the DAA ?

Cosmo Kramer

Very disappointing to hear that flybe are leaving Waterford. It would be a shame to see the airport go the way of Sligo and Galway. While those two had other airport(s) on their doorsteps Waterford does have its own catchment area, even if the airport isn't ideally situated within it.

The question is though - who will come in and offer the three obvious routes (London, Midlands and north of England) that could be sustained from the airport? If it's not Stobart or flybe then I'm struggling to answer that. I don't think flights to Antwerp and central France are what is needed right now.

CelticRambler

The three obvious routes have been tried and cut and tried and cut and tried and cut. Doing the same thing in the same way will (almost) always have the same outcome, and pleading/hoping for another version of the same service is asking for another failure. Whether members of this forum like it or not, the people of Waterford already have flights to London, the Midlands and north of England - there's an airport just up the road with flights to those places and much more.

What it doesn't have are inbound flights for tourists and business developers who could/would bring new money to the region. There is no reason for anyone from Belgium, the Netherlands or France to even look at the south-east corner of Ireland at the moment, so they go elsewhere.

The "one-hour " catchment population of those two continental airports totals approximately 5 million. The question now is whether or not the people of Waterford want that business, or would the prefer for these passengers to be delivered to Cork, Kerry, Shannon or Dublin?

Growler!!!

man98 wrote: »

By entering a franchise agreement with Aer Lingus, who don't have much a scope for expansion through regional airports, as they wanted connecting TATL passengers.

You mean the new Stobart Air who are so tied to Aer Lingus (not DAA) that they are closing a base which is predominantly TATL (SNN) without consulting EI. It was loss making btw.

Who have a franchise agreement with Flybe out of Southend, a recent wet lease with them out of the Isle of Man and a wet lease from Cardiff with Cityjet. It's all about the profit, the bigger profit was not in Waterford. That is the commercial reality.

questionmark?

Celtic rambler, to have routes to 'special' destinations would of course be great but the
airport needs airlines that offer cheap, quick, reguler flights to the busiest destinations that gets people through the doors. Those routes are London, Birmingham and one of Manchester/Liverpool. The UK is our biggest tourist market, our biggest trading partner and where the majority of our recent emigrants have gone too. 40 people flying to Antwerp twice a week wont keep the airport open. If your serious about your plans I wish you the best but your planned service would only be a side to the main dish.

Teebor15

Celtic rambler, to have routes to 'special' destinations would of course be great but the
airport needs airlines that offer cheap, quick, reguler flights to the busiest destinations that gets people through the doors. Those routes are London, Birmingham and one of Manchester/Liverpool. The UK is our biggest tourist market, our biggest trading partner and where the majority of our recent emigrants have gone too. 40 people flying to Antwerp twice a week wont keep the airport open. If your serious about your plans I wish you the best but your planned service would only be a side to the main dish.

CelticRambler, as much as I admire your enthusiasm and belief in your vision, it's hard to argue with the above. As a matter of interest you keep making out that Waterford are looking a gift horse in the face with your proposals and if they don't take up your offer it will be snapped up by other airports in Ireland or Europe. Have any of these other airports taken up your offers? Are you or your company operating any flights to anywhere in Europe either now or in the past? As per your original plan were you still looking for everything free or concessions? With you current proposal if it costs the airport nothing then there should be no problem with operating the flights. Just ring up and book them in, operate them then pay the published fees like every other charter operator.

So as stated by questionmark? Your proposals wont have much effect on the airports viability alone but I'm sure if the main routes have been sorted out and there is some cash in the kitty then they may be able offer concessions and take a punt on your venture.

Either way I wish you well.

CelticRambler

questionmark? wrote: »

the
airport needs airlines that offer cheap, quick, reguler flights to the busiest destinations that gets people through the doors.

In other words the kind of airline that screws everyone? Cheap flights come at a price, usually paid by the airport and/or the local authority. What benefit is it to Waterford to compete for the same bargain-hunters as Dublin?

Teebor15 wrote:

As a matter of interest you keep making out that Waterford are looking a gift horse in the face with your proposals and if they don't take up your offer it will be snapped up by other airports in Ireland or Europe. Have any of these other airports taken up your offers? Are you or your company operating any flights to anywhere in Europe either now or in the past?

When we refer to Waterford, we mean the people and businesses of the city and county, not the airport. We are not an airline - there more than enough loss-making operators out there without adding another one; we have two established, reputable carriers who are prepared to provide services on our behalf.

Our business is with the (potential) passengers and beneficiaries of inbound and outbound flight operations - in other words, the shops, restaurants, hotels, sports clubs, artists, schools, specialist manufactuers, etc, etc, of the airport's catchment area, who need reliable access to/from new markets - small ponds where they can be the big fish.

As it happens, things appear to have changed since our last round of discussions and this week we've found the attitude of local people and the feedback we've received has been universally positive ... except from the airport. We don't expect 40 passengers a week to change the fortunes of the airport, but our ambitions go well beyond 40 passengers a week.

questionmark? wrote: »

... your planned service would only be a side to the main dish.

I like the irony. Can you remind me again what main dish is being served for Easter?

questionmark?

CelticRambler wrote: »

In other words the kind of airline that screws everyone? Cheap flights come at a price, usually paid by the airport and/or the local authority. What benefit is it to Waterford to compete for the same bargain-hunters as Dublin?


When we refer to Waterford, we mean the people and businesses of the city and county, not the airport. We are not an airline - there more than enough loss-making operators out there without adding another one; we have two established, reputable carriers who are prepared to provide services on our behalf.

Our business is with the (potential) passengers and beneficiaries of inbound and outbound flight operations - in other words, the shops, restaurants, hotels, sports clubs, artists, schools, specialist manufactuers, etc, etc, of the airport's catchment area, who need reliable access to/from new markets - small ponds where they can be the big fish.

As it happens, things appear to have changed since our last round of discussions and this week we've found the attitude of local people and the feedback we've received has been universally positive ... except from the airport. We don't expect 40 passengers a week to change the fortunes of the airport, but our ambitions go well beyond 40 passengers a week.


I like the irony. Can you remind me again what main dish is being served for Easter?

Irony? Where did you get that from my post???

Wheter you like it or not low cost carriers benefit the economy and airports in the long run otherwise they wouldnt be in business. None of the low cost carriers such as Ryanair or Easyjet are coming to Waterford but that doesnt mean cheap frequent flights cant work. Your posts regarding your very long plans in the making suggests that the costs will be out of reach for most people.

Teebor15

CelticRambler wrote: »

In other words the kind of airline that screws everyone? Cheap flights come at a price, usually paid by the airport and/or the local authority. What benefit is it to Waterford to compete for the same bargain-hunters as Dublin?


When we refer to Waterford, we mean the people and businesses of the city and county, not the airport. We are not an airline - there more than enough loss-making operators out there without adding another one; we have two established, reputable carriers who are prepared to provide services on our behalf.

Our business is with the (potential) passengers and beneficiaries of inbound and outbound flight operations - in other words, the shops, restaurants, hotels, sports clubs, artists, schools, specialist manufactuers, etc, etc, of the airport's catchment area, who need reliable access to/from new markets - small ponds where they can be the big fish.

As it happens, things appear to have changed since our last round of discussions and this week we've found the attitude of local people and the feedback we've received has been universally positive ... except from the airport. We don't expect 40 passengers a week to change the fortunes of the airport, but our ambitions go well beyond 40 passengers a week.


I like the irony. Can you remind me again what main dish is being served for Easter?

Ok, thanks for clarifying that but you have'nt answered the questions. You began posting your ideas over a year or two claiming that unlike waterford other airports/regions were very keen on your proposals and that Waterford/south east were going to miss the boat. Since then or ever even have you or your 'company' operated flights to other airports/regions in Ireland or Europe? Did I hear you say Kerry were all for it there last year?

You have well documented your aversion to the airport prioritising replacing the core proven routes (Are Arann operated for the best part of a decade where they often reported Waterford-Luton as the most profitable route on their entire network) ahead of your 'alternative thinking' proposals, but your ideas are totally unproven, a slow burner (could take years to get decent numbers and even at that could run its course very quickly) and may not work at all. As I said, once the airport gets back on its feet again they could take a gamble on this but if as you say all your now looking for is permission to fly to and from then there will be no problem and we'll see you in the summer!

man98

Just remember, some business is better than none. We need all the routes available and if CelticRambler wants to have a crack at tapping these untapped markets, we as locals need to get behind him and show support, use the service.

Plane Fan

It's a month now since Flybe have announced that they're pulling out of Waterford .... I hope some talks have progressed with alternative carriers to hopefully gain some routes back, as the demand is there!!!!!

b757

Plane Fan wrote: »

It's a month now since Flybe have announced that they're pulling out of Waterford .... I hope some talks have progressed with alternative carriers to hopefully gain some routes back, as the demand is there!!!!!

The demand was there, don't know if it is still or not. Guess we'll just have to wait a couple weeks.

AviationUK

The only other carriers I can think of who would even be remotely interested are CityJet and Aer Lingus Regional.

And that's a long shot, unless Stobart Air want in again.

The only other thing I can think of is if a new airline started up there perhaps, maybe the airport could even wet lease a plane?

Desperate times!

b757

As far as I know, it's neither.. ^

Plane Fan

b757 wrote: »

As far as I know, it's neither.. ^

Any idea who so?

L1011

BMI Regional have a few craft spare imminently after their withdrawal from Sweden due to the closing of Gothenberg City Airport; its not really their kind of airport though, nor do they have any bases that are much use. They could tack on MAN on the end of an ABZ-MAN routing potentially.

Beyond them (or Logan or Eastern,both even less likely I'd imagine), it'd have to be a European regional carrier really - Darwin/Etihad Regional is another very vague possibility.

man98

L1011 wrote:

BMI Regional have a few craft spare imminently after their withdrawal from Sweden due to the closing of Gothenberg City Airport; its not really their kind of airport though, nor do they have any bases that are much use. They could tack on MAN on the end of an ABZ-MAN routing potentially.

ERJs would have weight restrictions in WAT I thought? A Bristol or Manchester route would certainly be feasible without it though. (The E135 could certainly manage daily to Manchester, not so sure on BRS).

L1011

I assumed their performance wouldn't be much worse than anything else of similar size but it's not something I even looked in to. If a 145 is limited compared to a Q400...

man98

L1011 wrote:

I assumed their performance wouldn't be much worse than anything else of similar size but it's not something I even looked in to. If a 145 is limited compared to a Q400...

I know they can and have landed, but I wonder could one manage it on 1585 metres when it's extended...

b757

Not a 145

L1011

S2000? F50?

Plane Fan

Is there any update on a carrier taking over routes at WAT, particularly London?
Flybe are only around for another 5 weeks and the summer period is creeping in!

wellboytoo

Hearing rumours of this https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflyvlm.com%2F&ei=TjTsVP73LIPU7AbE3YGYBA&usg=AFQjCNGX2r7XAvk5Q8P_urxEBPP8b_0zsQ&sig2=YXFIvnW028AEJA-W7FHsHQ

dzilla

wellboytoo wrote: »

Hearing rumours of this https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflyvlm.com%2F&ei=TjTsVP73LIPU7AbE3YGYBA&usg=AFQjCNGX2r7XAvk5Q8P_urxEBPP8b_0zsQ&sig2=YXFIvnW028AEJA-W7FHsHQ

Would be very interesting. They have been at London City in the past, don't know if they still are however. They have 2 Sukhoi Jets ordered which I believe could take off and land at Waterford in the future after expansion 1500meter runway(I am open to correction)

Their Fokker 50 aircraft would be at capacity I imagine all the time @ Waterford.

Looking forward to see this develop hopefully.

Jamie2k9

dzilla wrote: »

Would be very interesting. They have been at London City in the past, don't know if they still are however. They have 2 Sukhoi Jets ordered which I believe could take off and land at Waterford in the future after expansion 1500meter runway(I am open to correction)

Their Fokker 50 aircraft would be at capacity I imagine all the time @ Waterford.

Looking forward to see this develop hopefully.

They should be fine as is as I expect it if they were fully loaded a longer runway would be needed.

Hopefully it comes off.

questionmark?

If they did come in the big question is would the travelling public use an unknown airline, especially one that doesnt fly jet planes?

EICVD

questionmark? wrote: »

If they did come in the big question is would the travelling public use an unknown airline, especially one that doesnt fly jet planes?

Most likely, Euroceltic seemed to do well with those Fokker 27's on the Luton route, they were hardly a household name.

Pat Dunne

questionmark? wrote: »

If they did come in the big question is would the travelling public use an unknown airline, especially one that doesnt fly jet planes?

If they are well marketed in the catachment area, provide good routes and competitive prices, Joe Public will go for it.