Waterford Airport

L1011

Halligan was, surprisingly for a populist independent, quite clear that it wasn't just going to WAT in the bit with RTE I saw.

JCX BXC

I'd expect knock to soak up a fair chunk of that.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

Halligan was, surprisingly for a populist independent, quite clear that it wasn't just going to WAT in the bit with RTE I saw.

As much as I dislike him and the general local IND TD's I say fair play to him, he has gotten what a lot of what FG said they would in 2011 and but rolled back on everything for Waterford. You know Enda would never appoint our current FG TD a minister as he hates Kenny! John is the only realistic hope before you have to look at FF.

b757

VLM stopping WAT-LTN from 8/June till 16/June for scheduled maintenance.

Right at the start of Summer, bit of a joke at this stage now.

questionmark?

b757 wrote: »

VLM stopping WAT-LTN from 8/June till 16/June for scheduled maintenance.

Right at the start of Summer, bit of a joke at this stage now.

That's ridiculous! Do they not want the route to succeed!!!

bookworms

Yes unfortunately I am one of those passengers affected by this. Had my flight booked in February and was really looking forward to it. I know you pay a larger price but i was willing to over look this for the convenience ant the fact I was supporting the local airport. The flight timetable was changed last month, for later departure and earlier arrival from Luton, which meant i needed to change my plans. Then an email on Friday afternoon informing me of the cancellation. Needless to say i was VERY upset and disappointed, I still am to be honest. Just waiting on the full refund of my money and now I have to search for alternative flights from the other airports. It makes you wonder why we should be supporting local business.

Aerohead

That has to be a first, never saw an Airline stopping service for 8 days, make you wonder if the will be back.

JCX BXC

Aerohead wrote: »

That has to be a first, never saw an Airline stopping service for 8 days, make you wonder if the will be back.

Not really.

Last Easter Aer Lingus stopped the SNN-BOS service for around 10 days right in the middle of the Easter Holidays.

questionmark?

icv1111 wrote: »

There's obviously a demand for the London routes. Just not enough to fill an ATR or Fokker 50. Would it not make more sense for an airline operating EMB120, Saab 340, or Beechcraft 1900's on these routes?

Business opportunity anybody?

The flight that was diverted to Dublin due to landing gear issues had 14 passengers and 4 crew on board.
Whatever VLM are doing is not working at the moment. Personally I think the frequent late flights, cancellations, the image that the planes are old crocks amongst those used to jets, the high prices and schedule changes are far from helping them grow this route. The market is there but for the right airline. I was confident of VLM succeeding but I have my doubts about them not to mention the fact they are broke amd could go without any notice.

BonkeyDonker

questionmark? wrote: »

The market is there but for the right airline.

The market is there - two hours from Waterford get you to Dublin/COrk and most of the midlands. Add in the ease of getting to/through the airport a well run airline could carve a niche.

Back when Aer Arran had flights out of there to London and Manchester they had high load factors with people going through Waterford ahead of Dublin for the reasons stated above.

A longer runway would allow bigger aircraft in and hopefully a better quality of airline.

L1011

I occasionally used RE to Birmingham to avoid Dublin pre T2 and during the m50 works. Road down was crap then though

highlydebased

Sadly for WAT the VLM flights to Luton will end on the 16th.

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=68842

fr336

Really annoying that here you have a popular route (I only know about LTN - WAT), especially back in the Aer Arran days, and now gone again. Especially with the first pulling out being due to Stobart wanting to disrupt a popular route for the sake of their airport in Southend. The route's popularity shows that many people must be like my mother who absolutely hates Dublin and other big airports - choice should be widening in 2016, not getting smaller.

JCX BXC

fr336 wrote: »

Really annoying that here you have a popular route (I only know about LTN - WAT), especially back in the Aer Arran days, and now gone again.

Aer Arran days entailed no motorways.

The route's popularity shows that many people must be like my mother who absolutely hates Dublin and other big airports - choice should be widening in 2016, not getting smaller.

What popularity? The loads were abysmal!

Why should routes be widening in 2016?

b757

Carnacalla wrote: »

What popularity? The loads were abysmal!

I take it you can afford €250 return per person, minimum to LTN?

JCX BXC

b757 wrote: »

I take it you can afford €250 return per person, minimum to LTN?

That's irrelevant, the route didn't do well.

If the route is also so popular, which did it take so many years for an airline to finally jump in?

fr336

Carnacalla wrote: »

What popularity? The loads were abysmal!

Why should routes be widening in 2016?

They were not abysmal. They were up and down and it only ran for a year, with an unknown airline for most people in the UK and Ireland.

Because the free market is supposedly about maximum choice for the customer. Not airlines or even airports having monopolies on that choice. There should be more imagination about these things but fat chance of that unless it's someone like FR (who admittedly wouldn't bother with WAT even if the runway was bigger, though that's not my point). Maybe we will end up with just DUB soon?

JCX BXC

If the runway was extended to a length suitable for Ryanair Ops, I'd have no doubt you'd see them at WAT, despite what they say.

fr336

Carnacalla wrote: »

If the runway was extended to a length suitable for Ryanair Ops, I'd have no doubt you'd see them at WAT, despite what they say.

Well obviously I'd like this based on my previous comment, but why do you think so? What would be the incentive/s for them, especially if nobody else was at WAT taking some traffic away from their London to Dub?

JCX BXC

fr336 wrote: »

Well obviously I'd like this based on my previous comment, but why do you think so? What would be the incentive/s for them, especially if nobody else was at WAT taking some traffic away from their London to Dub?

Fair point, but the same reason as they operate from places like Kerry, Newquay and Derry. There's money to be made, and it outweighs the amount of traffic it will take away from their existing services at other airports.

fr336

Carnacalla wrote: »

Fair point, but the same reason as they operate from places like Kerry, Newquay and Derry. There's money to be made, and it outweighs the amount of traffic it will take away from their existing services at other airports.

I guess the only way for WAT to survive is that runway then...

man98

Carnacalla wrote: »

Fair point, but the same reason as they operate from places like Kerry, Newquay and Derry. There's money to be made, and it outweighs the amount of traffic it will take away from their existing services at other airports.

Newquay was crippled when Ryanair left, Kerry is a one horse town and Derry has had rumours surrounding it for years. If Ryanair pulled the plug on either of the latter it'd be end of days. Waterford Airport needn't tie its own noose. I'd like to see the apron expanded to take A319s, or smaller 737s and provide good deals for the charter market. Jets could come in and out if the displaced threshold was done away with and the runway increased to 5200 feet. I can't imagine that price being much higher than €1M, possibly even installing ILS as a "safety improvement", thus funded by government. If Cityjet and Stobart were to merge (as is the plan) then Waterford might be able to get a look in. The economies of scale of both could see an ATR serving a basic route structure, or is that just my wishful thinking?

notharrypotter

man98 wrote: »

, or is that just my wishful thinking?

What do you think?

Masala

man98 wrote: »

Newquay was crippled when Ryanair left, Kerry is a one horse town and Derry has had rumours surrounding it for years. If Ryanair pulled the plug on either of the latter it'd be end of days. Waterford Airport needn't tie its own noose. I'd like to see the apron expanded to take A319s, or smaller 737s and provide good deals for the charter market. Jets could come in and out if the displaced threshold was done away with and the runway increased to 5200 feet. I can't imagine that price being much higher than €1M, possibly even installing ILS as a "safety improvement", thus funded by government. If Cityjet and Stobart were to merge (as is the plan) then Waterford might be able to get a look in. The economies of scale of both could see an ATR serving a basic route structure, or is that just my wishful thinking?

The government is not going to pay for runway extensions.....they trying to reduce the number of airports in the country not build them up to compete with each other. Any expansions is down to the Waterford faithful and their own pockets

man98

Masala wrote: »

The government is not going to pay for runway extensions.....they trying to reduce the number of airports in the country not build them up to compete with each other. Any expansions is down to the Waterford faithful and their own pockets

There's a €40 million regional development fund coming on line over the next 3 years. The government are allowed to fund any safety upgrades and given VLM's constant diversions over the last year, there's certainly am argument to be had there. Waterford does need a small slice of the pie. The taxiway was flooded for some time last winter, another safety improvement. The runway extension (for which the land has already been CPO'd) is only 150 metres, certainly not out of the question to raise given the alternative. So you're right, infrastructure wise, it is completely down to the airport and investors/ businessmen in the area. Nonetheless, there is scope to take some of the government funds on offer, before Knock takes it all.

questionmark?

Carnacalla wrote: »

That's irrelevant, the route didn't do well.

If the route is also so popular, which did it take so many years for an airline to finally jump in?

The posters point about cost was not irrelevant.

People are price sensitive plus other factors as I outlined in a previous post which made the route perform poorly.

Why did it take so long for an airline to commit? Well name how many airlines that operate in this part of the world that can actually use the airport due to runway restrictions.

pepe the prawn

It would be nice to see more traffic at Waterford. However, it's not just a runway extension that's needed; in reality it also needs to be widened, it's currently 30m wide and would really want to be 45m to be able to be on a par with the rest of the airports in Ireland, and to have the potential to attract the right type of carriers.

So it's actually an almost completely new runway it needs laid over the existing one, not just the extension. Add to that an ILS, approach lights, widened taxiways, possible terminal upgrades (if any) to deal with increased pax numbers, stepping up the abilities of the airport also means stepping up the initial capital required and the running costs thereafter.

Johnny901

Sorry to see Waterford in trouble again, don't let it go the same way Galway did. The lads in Waterford have worked hard, just very unlucky with the way the airline market has gone.

From the press statement it seems to me an unknown (in Ireland) airline VLM with little marketing managed to carry 45,000 passengers over the 12 months it operated. Friends down there tell me that the fares were crazy........

Now get a known airline in, market it better, fares more reasonable and I would expect the demand from the South East, for people who want to avoid Dublin Airport, would make it worthwhile for an airline. Waterford is not badly placed to serve the South East. What killed Galway was we had Shannon to the south (with improved roads) Knock to the north.

man98 wrote: »

possibly even installing ILS as a "safety improvement", thus funded by government.

ILS on runway 21 already for many years.

pepe the prawn wrote: »

it's not just a runway extension that's needed; in reality it also needs to be widened, it's currently 30m wide and would really want to be 45m to be able to be on a par with the rest of the airports in Ireland, and to have the potential to attract the right type of carriers.

I think you are over stating what needs to be done at Waterford. ILS in, approach lighting in and they don't need 45m width, Southend doesn't have 45m and has Easyjet A319/320s.

man98 wrote: »

given VLM's constant diversions over the last year, The taxiway was flooded for some time last winter, another safety improvement. .

"Constant diversions".......where did you get that from ? The winter storms may have been an issue, as they were everywhere else with cross winds, but "constant diversions", don't think so.

The few times the taxiway flooded, I am told it did not affect operations.

Can John Halligan deliver what he promised ?

man98

During the winter they were diverting quite often I noticed. I didn't realise there was ILS on RWY 21, thought it was just a VOR DME beacon. The minimum viability at Waterford is quite high so not only during the storms, but also in generally poor weather they were some diversions. As regards Halligan's funding, we'll wait and see. The flights were bookable via a third party website for €130 however, and I was quite tempted to use it this summer. Pity about it all.

Dilbert75

So what market should WAT be aiming for? It's all very well saying extend the runway and get jets in but is it really feasible for a small regional airport <2 hours from DUB and ORK to compete with them for both carriers and passengers? Or is there a niche of convenience that they can flourish in? People will be less inclined to travel to DUB or ORK for early morning or late night flights. So why not make that a niche? Or link to a major hub for holiday destinations in the summer?

I've only flown through WAT a few times for leisure in the Aer Arann times because I could never make the later timetable work for me for business. It always seemed to be flying both out and in during the day, so if you want to spend most of a day in Birmingham you have to go out the day before and back the day after. You might tolerate one overnight, if the flights were at one end of the day, but not two. That's just me but maybe I'm not alone.