Waterford Airport

Shn99

JCX BXC wrote: »

I didn't realise the airport was in such financial difficulty. If so, I wouldn't have hope for the future.

Think they’re only throwing money at the airport to avoid the inevitable. IMO it’s a lost cause

Matthew Gleeson

I think they stand a chance. The Luton service is a definite chance for someone to make money. I think it's just a shame they weren't able to get the upgrades needed to take a 737. Ryanair would happily operate out of Waterford no doubt.

Masala

Matthew Gleeson wrote: »

I think they stand a chance. The Luton service is a definite chance for someone to make money. I think it's just a shame they weren't able to get the upgrades needed to take a 737. Ryanair would happily operate out of Waterford no doubt.

..... didnt know Ryanair were that generous in dishing out flights to regional airports

JCX BXC

I very much doubt Ryanair would operate from Waterford if it could, and its made this class in the past.

Luton and Southend have both lost alot of money during any attempts to operate them in the last few years.

Dum_Dum

Masala wrote: »

..... didnt know Ryanair were that generous in dishing out flights to regional airports

It's not Waterford Airport, it's Dublin (South).

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Matthew Gleeson

Well either way Waterford needs something and fast. A desperate shame if the government let it fall by the way side

Masala

Matthew Gleeson wrote: »

Well either way Waterford needs something and fast. A desperate shame if the government let it fall by the way side

Tough times..... Galway Airport just 'slipped away' and not a peep from anyone in Galway!!

Sligo down to Search & Rescue only....more or less the Waterford of the North West!

No Government concern about them..... so don't expect any favours there. Its not down to Governments to keep Airports open. In fact.. the EU Line is that airports should not be supported that are competing with another airport locally and therefore would like to see 1 fail so that the other succeeds! A bit like natural selection!!

Its a tough world....

marno21

Masala wrote: »

Tough times..... Galway Airport just 'slipped away' and not a peep from anyone in Galway!!

Sligo down to Search & Rescue only....more or less the Waterford of the North West!

No Government concern about them..... so don't expect any favours there. Its not down to Governments to keep Airports open. In fact.. the EU Line is that airports should not be supported that are competing with another airport locally and therefore would like to see 1 fail so that the other succeeds! A bit like natural selection!!

Its a tough world....

Galway is 45 minutes from Shannon and 1 hour from Knock. Between them they have a wide range of destinations and connections via Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Boston, New York etc.

There isn't really a market for an airport in Galway especially given the capital investment required to get it upto standard for 737/A320s.

The West could not sustain Knock, Galway and Shannon (along with Kerry and Cork). Something had to give.

Waterford is 2 hours from Cork/Dublin airports and there is a large market not served by any airport nearby

Masala

marno21 wrote: »

Galway is 45 minutes from Shannon and 1 hour from Knock. Between them they have a wide range of destinations and connections via Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Boston, New York etc.

There isn't really a market for an airport in Galway especially given the capital investment required to get it upto standard for 737/A320s.

The West could not sustain Knock, Galway and Shannon (along with Kerry and Cork). Something had to give.

Waterford is 2 hours from Cork/Dublin airports and there is a large market not served by any airport nearby

And you can see Waterford having a better market???

Waterford have Dublin & Cork and even Shannon and Kerry to choose from..... having to travel 2 hrs to get to an airport dos not mean an Airport should be supported.

JCX BXC

Is there a large market Marno? If so, why no services.

I cant see why the taxpayer should continue to fund an airport that doesn't actually provide a service.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Is there a large market Marno? If so, why no services.

I cant see why the taxpayer should continue to fund an airport that doesn't actually provide a service.

If Kerry had the same runway as Waterford it would be facing the same problems (the PSO aside). Waterford Airport is going nowhere without a runway extension, which I believe local politicians have been loooking for for a while and was programmed back in the day.

Waterford Airport is open to the Rescue helicopter and general aviation traffic. Personally, I think a runway extension would be a worthwhile investment as unlike Galway there isn't 2 airports within an hours drive

marno21

Masala wrote: »

And you can see Waterford having a better market???

Waterford have Dublin & Cork and even Shannon and Kerry to choose from..... having to travel 2 hrs to get to an airport dos not mean an Airport should be supported.

Yes I can. Waterford doesn't have Knock and Shannon within an hours drive

If you want to include Kerry and Shannon as close to Waterford then include Dublin, Cork and Kerry as close to Galway. Galway is unlucky it's close but not too close to both Shannon and Knock, but the M17 and M18 have improved access dramatically. There certainly isn't a market for 3 airports between Knock, Shannon and Galway

Irish Steve

In some respects, while the comments about Galway are true, there were other issues that were very much a contributor to the failure of Galway. A long time ago now, when it used to take at least 3 and a half hours to get to Galway from the outskirts of Dublin, and sometimes a lot longer, I was very much involved with a local group (pre Aer Arran) that was trying to get air services operating out of Galway after Ryanair had pulled out. To say that the Galway Airport management were less than helpful would be being generous, the eventual result was that the planned services didn't happen, but there was a demand there, as was shown by the later services that were operated by Aer Arran.

There were also issues with the viability of the runway at Galway, it was marginal in too many ways for reliable services, and made it impossible to operate anything larger than an ATR, and even they were restricted. I wasn't surprised when the advent of the motorways made some of the services from Galway less attractive than they were, with the other issues, that was an insurmountable obstacle that eventually made the future of Galway airport a non viable future.

marno21

Irish Steve wrote: »

In some respects, while the comments about Galway are true, there were other issues that were very much a contributor to the failure of Galway. A long time ago now, when it used to take at least 3 and a half hours to get to Galway from the outskirts of Dublin, and sometimes a lot longer, I was very much involved with a local group (pre Aer Arran) that was trying to get air services operating out of Galway after Ryanair had pulled out. To say that the Galway Airport management were less than helpful would be being generous, the eventual result was that the planned services didn't happen, but there was a demand there, as was shown by the later services that were operated by Aer Arran.

There were also issues with the viability of the runway at Galway, it was marginal in too many ways for reliable services, and made it impossible to operate anything larger than an ATR, and even they were restricted. I wasn't surprised when the advent of the motorways made some of the services from Galway less attractive than they were, with the other issues, that was an insurmountable obstacle that eventually made the future of Galway airport a non viable future.

A very true point. The massive roadbuilding of the 2000s was the death knell for most of the internal Irish flights. Sligo, Galway, Knock, Cork have all lost their Dublin flights. Kerry has significantly reduced capacity (2x AT43 daily)

Galway's runway is 1,289m long, and as you say can only operate an ATR or less. To the other posters, where could you competitively serve from Galway that would be a success when all the destinations in demand are served with jet aircraft less than 1 hour drive away? If Kerry had a 1,300m long runway there would be none of the current services we have as an ATR 42 from Kerry to London will not be competitive when there are better priced, faster services from Cork and Shannon.

Johnny901

"Luton and Southend have both lost alot of money during any attempts to operate them in the last few years".[/QUOTE]

What source do you have for this statement ?

I think the problem was money was being made but not enough, the aircraft could earn more elsewhere.

In Galway, back in the 2005/7 period we were told back in the Aer Arann days that the Waterford to Luton route was the most profitable. Most who know the regionals would say that WAT/LTN would make money. The problem for Waterford has been the right aircraft (currently limited by WAT's runway) and operator willing to use Luton.

If you open up the potential operators by providing a longer runway, I think Ryanair would certainly look at it. Why not with a potiential of 500,000 pop. in the South East.

Storm 10

marno21 wrote: »

A very true point. The massive roadbuilding of the 2000s was the death knell for most of the internal Irish flights. Sligo, Galway, Knock, Cork have all lost their Dublin flights. Kerry has significantly reduced capacity (2x AT43 daily)

Galway's runway is 1,289m long, and as you say can only operate an ATR or less. To the other posters, where could you competitively serve from Galway that would be a success when all the destinations in demand are served with jet aircraft less than 1 hour drive away? If Kerry had a 1,300m long runway there would be none of the current services we have as an ATR 42 from Kerry to London will not be competitive when there are better priced, faster services from Cork and Shannon.

When Galway was operating Aer Arann used an RJ170 Jet to Malaga and France in the summer months, during the Galway Races on the two big days British Airways operated a similar aircraft for charter flights from London.

Irish Steve

Storm 10 wrote: »

When Galway was operating Aer Arann used an RJ170 Jet to Malaga and France in the summer months, during the Galway Races on the two big days British Airways operated a similar aircraft for charter flights from London.

They did, but there were significant performance restrictions related to both the length and the width of the runway.

Back in the days when they had 146's operating to Ireland, TNT looked at it in close detail for horse charter requests, but there were just too many issues to allow them to put their freighters in to Galway.

Jamie2k9

Irish Steve wrote: »

They did, but there were significant performance restrictions related to both the length and the width of the runway.

Back in the days when they had 146's operating to Ireland, TNT looked at it in close detail for horse charter requests, but there were just too many issues to allow them to put their freighters in to Galway.

They stopped in Waterford because they couldn't make it from Galway, 85%+ of those passenger they ended up carrying boarded where in WAT not GWY as well.

EICVD

I recall Aer Arann flying the 146 (leased from Flighline?) but did they fly to AGP from GWY & WAT? There was that airline from the IOM, Euromanx who definitely flew RJ-70s, almost certain it was them who flew the GWY-WAT-AGP/CDG flights, was that independently or on behalf of Aer Arann?

Jamie2k9

EICVD wrote: »

I recall Aer Arann flying the 146 (leased from Flighline?) but did they fly to AGP from GWY & WAT? There was that airline from the IOM, Euromanx who definitely flew RJ-70s, almost certain it was them who flew the GWY-WAT-AGP/CDG flights, was that independently or on behalf of Aer Arann?

Aer Arran were all operated via WAT because it couldn't make it from Galway.

Johnny901

Nex Aviation had the 146, I think the first season they did it on their own, booking through a tour operator (Slatterys ?) with Aer Arann coming on board for the second season. The Euromanx RJ never went through Waterford.

Pat Dunne

Question, would a empty 737 or A320/A319, no PAX, no freight, just Capt & F/O, be able to land and take off using the existing runway in Waterford?

Storm 10

We had a US Air Force Hercules land and depart at Galway Airport during one of the Salthill Air Shows, they stayed for 4 days landed in half the runway and took off in a short distance as well.

Pat Dunne

Storm 10 wrote: »

We had a US Air Force Hercules land and depart at Galway Airport during one of the Salthill Air Shows, they stayed for 4 days landed in half the runway and took off in a short distance as well.

Yeah I'd reckon the Herc could land on a very tight field empty.

My question is Waterford specific, as I recently read a particular article which set me thinking.

faoiarvok

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Question, would a empty 737 or A320/A319, no PAX, no freight, just Capt & F/O, be able to land and take off using the existing runway in Waterford?

Any fuel?

Jamie2k9

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Yeah I'd reckon the Herc could land on a very tight field empty.

My question is Waterford specific, as I recently read a particular article which set me thinking.

In theory yes just about, Airbus would be better performance but both would also be heavily restricted but there is no way a B737 could be viable on the restrictions that would be placed on it even for a flight to London.

smurfjed

How penalising is the runway width? I know that both the 737/A320 have narrow runway operational supplements, but do these have any performance considerations apart from VCMG?

Pat Dunne

My reason for asking the question is related to this particular article I read last week. For some reason Waterford just jumped out at me.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-aerospace-considering-base-in-regional-airport-36487781.html

Dublin Aerospace wouldn't be as constrained as airlines in terms of runway lengths. Aircraft without payloads don't need as much runway to take-off or land as fully loaded ones.
That means that airports such as Ireland West International, commonly known as Knock Airport, as well as Cork, Waterford and even Donegal could be conceivable alternatives for Dublin Aerospace.

Now the next question is there sufficent space to house such an operation?

shanemul

Pat Dunne wrote: »

My reason for asking the question is related to this particular article I read last week. For some reason Waterford just jumped out at me.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-aerospace-considering-base-in-regional-airport-36487781.html

Now the next question is there sufficent space to house such an operation?

Yes if i remember rightly from the master plan hangers were included