Photo ID Card?

bk

irishgeo wrote: »

Now will ryanair accept as valid for flights?

Of course, they are legally required to, just as they are required to accept all valid EU passport and national ID cards, such as the one my Polish ex uses on Ryanair every day.

I have to say I'm delighted by this and I can't wait to get it. It will reduce the stress of always having to carry a passport.

I hated having to carry my passport while out at pubs in the US, always afraid I'd lose it and a pain in my pocket. Also the same when I go to pick up a package from an post.

It will be good when travelling outside the EU. Leave the passport in the hotel and carry this with me instead. Use this card for ID renting cars, at bars, etc. If my wallet gets stolen, still have the passport save back at the hotel. If the passport gets stolen, then still have this card which makes it easier to prove who I am at the embassy. Redundancy is good.

However I wish they just came right at with a proper national ID card that integrated all the various cards we are now ending up with.

I see no reason why the information on the passport card, immigration card, driving license, social welfare card and free travel pass can't all be integrated along with your address and a digital signature on an optional national ID card.

Just one €35 charge, rather then €35 for the driving license card + €35 for the passport card, etc. and far more versatile.

I suppose they are taking baby steps towards doing this. Probably want to get people use to it slowly first.

munchkin_utd

gamblor101 wrote: »

€70 every ten years versus €80 odd for a full passport. Not much of an incentive to be honest.

its not a replacement, its an addition.
You still need a full passport to be elligable for a passport card.

so your pricing is actually €80 for a full passport plus the cost of the additonal card version.

Sam Russell

They could make it a option to take it with your new passport at a lower charge - say €10, or even a free add on. It would reduce the costs of replacement passports due to them being loss, misplaced or stolen.

murpho999

Like the idea of this but feel they have missed an opportunity with this.

Firstly, in other countries people can choose for either a passport or EU travel card. So someone who just goes to Spain once a year on holiday should be able to just have the small card instead of having to have a passport as well.

Also, why couldn't the combine other data such as driving licence, blood group, donor donation choices on it?

One card for everything would be very useful.

Sam Russell

It is probably early days.

It is easy for them to just use the passport file to generate the new ID Passport card. When that is bedded in, they may well expand it to an 'instead' option instead on an 'as well' one.

They need to do the leg work to get as many countries to accept it as equivalent to the normal passport.

How do they handle visas, entry stamps, etc.? No problem within the EU, or EFTA, but other countries?

foggy_lad

Sam Russell wrote: »

There are a lot of advantages to having it. It will be harder to lose that a standard passport; it will be easier to carry and could be carried in a wallet with all your credit cards. It will be a real loss if someone steals your wallet though.

I may be shot down for even suggesting this but to me that card looks very like it will be the same size or just slightly smaller than the current passport, if that turns out to be the case it will be not be of any real benefit. The back will have a hologram of the bearers picture as well as all the security features which currently appear on the normal passport's photo page.

Sam Russell

foggy_lad wrote: »

I may be shot down for even suggesting this but to me that card looks very like it will be the same size or just slightly smaller than the current passport, if that turns out to be the case it will be not be of any real benefit. The back will have a hologram of the bearers picture as well as all the security features which currently appear on the normal passport's photo page.

It will be credit card size, otherwise it will be useless. It will be like the Public Service Card or the CC Drivers Licence. The writing is very small.

munchkin_utd

Sam Russell wrote: »

<snip>
They need to do the leg work to get as many countries to accept it as equivalent to the normal passport.

How do they handle visas, entry stamps, etc.? No problem within the EU, or EFTA, but other countries?

the point is that the vast majority of travel is within the EU, and even at that the majority is to the uk (and majority of that with a beligerant airline that only takes passports/ id cards)

so for the majority this will be useful.
And for round the world spins to see some class of a cave in deepest peru you still have your book passport which has all the paper pages you'll ever need.

foggy_lad

Sam Russell wrote: »

It will be credit card size, otherwise it will be useless. It will be like the Public Service Card or the CC Drivers Licence. The writing is very small.

Just confirmed on six one news that it will be credit card sized but it will be impossible to read with so much information squeezed into such a small card. I presume it wont have to have the biometric thingy that the Americans insist on as it will only be for travel within the EEA/EU

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

munchkin_utd

foggy_lad wrote: »

Just confirmed on six one news that it will be credit card sized but it will be impossible to read with so much information squeezed into such a small card. I presume it wont have to have the biometric thingy that the Americans insist on as it will only be for travel within the EEA/EU

I d presume it would as the card has the chip symbol on it and it requires having a passport already, which means you've already submitted a biometric photo.

Whether the us takes a card format passport rather than a standard one with a dozen pages that aren't needed is another question.
If you look again at the image, this is a passport (in capitals in Irish English and French ) , not a national ID card, so maybe it's ok?

murpho999

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is probably early days.

It is easy for them to just use the passport file to generate the new ID Passport card. When that is bedded in, they may well expand it to an 'instead' option instead on an 'as well' one.

They need to do the leg work to get as many countries to accept it as equivalent to the normal passport.

How do they handle visas, entry stamps, etc.? No problem within the EU, or EFTA, but other countries?

Not an issue as it's for EU/EEA use as it is already by other EU citizens where no actual visa is required.
Bear in mind that EU citizens with the card can already enter Ireland with it so there will be no issue with the Irish one.

Sam Russell

I was thinking of countries like Turkey, Canada, USA, South America, Australia, and perhaps India and China. Some countries charge for visas, some need prior application. Most countries like to stamp entry and exit dates.

If Ireland gets agreement on virtual stamps it would be some coup.

munchkin_utd

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was thinking of countries like Turkey, Canada, USA, South America, Australia, and perhaps India and China. Some countries charge for visas, some need prior application. Most countries like to stamp entry and exit dates.

If Ireland gets agreement on virtual stamps it would be some coup.

Not sure if that's on the cards, and anyhow as it stands you still need to have the flappy passport before getting the compact version.

Sam Russell

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Not sure if that's on the cards, and anyhow as it stands you still need to have the flappy passport before getting the compact version.

Read post #126 again. They will have to do leg work to get it accepted by as many countries as possible. That would require those countries to do something about visas and date stamps.

murpho999

Sam Russell wrote: »

Read post #126 again. They will have to do leg work to get it accepted by as many countries as possible. That would require those countries to do something about visas and date stamps.

Sorry but no leg work is required as you are misunderstanding what it is.

You will still need passports for the countries outside the EU as stamps and visas are required.
This is simply for use within the EU and Ireland is late to the party.

murphaph

I don't want to be too negative but it's a bit silly that the card doesn't have the exact same validity dates as the passport book. This is supplementary to the book, so why not just let it always be valid in parallel (if the card option is taken up)...

The 5 year max validity is totally arbitrary and designed to create a revenue stream. The details on the card are the same as the book, so why the artificially restricted validity??

Sam Russell

Book passport lose validity when they run out of pages.

BowWow

murphaph wrote: »

I don't want to be too negative but it's a bit silly that the card doesn't have the exact same validity dates as the passport book. This is supplementary to the book, so why not just let it always be valid in parallel (if the card option is taken up)...

The 5 year max validity is totally arbitrary and designed to create a revenue stream. The details on the card are the same as the book, so why the artificially restricted validity??

Expiry date of card will match Passport.

From Dept Site -
"The card will have a maximum validity of 5 years (or the remaining validity of an individual’s passport book)"

foggy_lad

murpho999 wrote: »

Sorry but no leg work is required as you are misunderstanding what it is.

You will still need passports for the countries outside the EU as stamps and visas are required.
This is simply for use within the EU and Ireland is late to the party.

Ireland will be the first with this card passport i thought?

Remember this is NOT an ID card, It is a passport. it may be accepted in some countries including Ireland as identification but these places can just as easily refuse to see it as identification but purely as a passport.

Victor

Articles: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-credit-card-sized-passport-will-allow-travel-within-eu-1.2079757 and: http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0126/675641-passport-card/

murphaph wrote: »

The 5 year max validity is totally arbitrary and designed to create a revenue stream. The details on the card are the same as the book, so why the artificially restricted validity??

What about the encryption on the chip (I presume it has one)? Do standard passports have chips? Will the cards suffer more wear and tear than standard passport?

BowWow wrote: »

Expiry date of card will match Passport.

From Dept Site -
"The card will have a maximum validity of 5 years (or the remaining validity of an individual’s passport book)"

... whichever happens first.

Most passports are valid for 10 years.

murphaph

BowWow wrote: »

Expiry date of card will match Passport.

From Dept Site -
"The card will have a maximum validity of 5 years (or the remaining validity of an individual’s passport book)"

My passport expires in 6 years. If I get this card in July the card will expire around 6 months before main passport. If I then renew the card it will expire 6 months later. See the problem?

embraer170

Good step forward but I fail to see why they had to call it "Passport" when just about every other EU / EEA country calls their card "ID Card". The only country I am aware of that uses the term passport for a card is the US, and even there it is very clearly "Passport Card".

Airlines and others in the travel business will have endless arguments about the passport card and it not being valid outside the EU / EEA. Customer: "The entry requirements say "Passport", and look this card says "Passport". Airline: "Well no, you need the other type of passport". Etc. etc.

The potential for confusion is not helped by the phrase at the back of the card "This passport remains the property of...".

Sample ID cards from other countries giving holders the same travel privileges as the Irish passport card. Every single one of them says identity card:

---

antoobrien

murphaph wrote: »

My passport expires in 6 years. If I get this card in July the card will expire around 6 months before main passport. If I then renew the card it will expire 6 months later. See the problem?

Nothing stopping you from renewing both at the same time.

munchkin_utd

murphaph wrote: »

My passport expires in 6 years. If I get this card in July the card will expire around 6 months before main passport. If I then renew the card it will expire 6 months later. See the problem?

Well, at least you'd get the 5 years out of it.
Mine will have a few months less than 2 years on it come july !

Also, if you think about it it mightnt be that much of a problem for you as you are saying, as no doubt you'd want to renew it a few months in advance anyhow so it'd be a few months before the actual expiry date, meaning you'd have less than 6months without the passport card.

bk

First of all, this new card follows all the rules laid down by the EU to pass as a valid ID card and thus is valid for Irish citizens for all travel within the EEA and Switzerland.

While not proof, it has even already been added to the wikipedia list of European national ID cards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area

The above page has a list of photos of national id cards from around Europe and you will notice that this card is almost exactly the same as the rest of them, with the most important part being the machine readable passport information on the lower backside of the card, same as all the other national id cards.

The card also has biometric data and RFID just like the passport.

I assume this card won't be valid for travel, to the US, etc. Though still useful to have when going there (leave passport in hotel when going out to pubs at night and need ID).

The Department of Foreign Affairs will hopefully do some work to get this card accepted by Turkey, Egypt, etc. who already accept many EU national ID cards, but don't legally have to accept this card.

Foggy, what are you on about it being too small?

This card is exactly the same size as national id cards throughout Europe and also the new drivers license, which BTW has more information on it. So if it isn't an issue for almost every citizen of the EU, I don't see why it would be for us.

bk

I do have some complaints about it.

- Expensive at €35 + fees
- Only valid for 5 years, most EU national ID cards are valid for 10 years
- Being dishonest about it and calling it a passport card when really it is a national ID card.
- Not going the full hog and integrating the medical card, social welfare card, free travel pass, etc. into it.

munchkin_utd

bk wrote: »

<snip>
- Not going the full hog and integrating the medical card, social welfare card, free travel pass, etc. into it.

to be honest, if they did the latter, which is logical, there'd be blood on the streets and the thing would never get introduced - as happened in the uk.

best to get it in, and then let the public get used to it and let the calls from the public be the driver to have everything merged.

I also like the idea of a passport card (as a name) as it sets it apart from the id card systems in europe which are intended in the main and originaly introduced as something to be used at home rather for travel.
i.e. in Belgium the ID cards were first introduced by the Nazis to control the population, not for holiday purposes!

embraer170

It is a pity that we wait years for a national ID and end up with poorer than most similar documents elsewhere in the EU (validity, need to have a normal passport in addition to this).

bk wrote: »

The Department of Foreign Affairs will hopefully do some work to get this card accepted by Turkey, Egypt, etc. who already accept many EU national ID cards, but don't legally have to accept this card.

Does it actually matter when you need an actual passport to get this card (unlike most other EU national IDs, which can be issued independently of the passport).

I am sure this will be a source of significant confusion to those traveling outside of the EU. When a passport is not actually a passport.

bk

embraer170 wrote: »

I am sure this will be a source of significant confusion to those traveling outside of the EU. When a passport is not actually a passport.

Yes, that is a very good point.

A national ID card which just happens to be usable as a travel card inside the EEA seems different to a passport card (though in reality exactly the same).

I agree that I think there will be lots of people who will confuse it and will try and use it heading to the US, etc.

Though to be honest, any country who doesn't actually stamp your passport, should really have no problem accepting this. It really isn't any different from the ID page of your passport book.

In fact I expect most countries will in time do away with stamps altogether. It is basically unnecessary in this day and age of computer databases.

I wonder if you can get this card, without also getting a passport book.

I could imagine people just getting one of these for EEA travel and only getting a passport book when going further afield (US, etc.).

Also it would be nice if they included this card free when you do get a passport book and the validity period should really be 10 years, same as your passport.