Have you ever experienced hibernophobia?

Shenshen

shar01 wrote: »

This reminds me - we were in Vienna in 2008 for the Euros. Again sitting outside a cafe, there was a group of German fans at the next table. When they heard our accents, one turned around and asked why Ireland had voted No to the Lisbon Treaty? "Because we could, democracy and all that" was the answer. He quickly turned back to his mates

Although in hindsight, democracy hasn't really worked out well for us...:(

Had to laugh at the idea of a German recognising Irish people by their accent...

Lucy and Harry

I heard at a Celtic match go home the famine is over.Rangers supporters sang that.Although it was almost funny looking back as it did show some humour but they were vicious in the way they sang it.Not friendly banter..

LincolnsBeard

Madam_X wrote: »

Switching their hatred from the Jews to the Muslims must prove quite the challenge for the knuckleheads.

The leader of the EDL is Stephen Lennon.

Most of the leaders are from Irish backgrounds as they started in Luton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Yaxley-Lennon



Anti-Irish sentiment is dying out in England. Most young people today in England do not know anything about Irish history. It's not taught in school at all and now the IRA are defunct there's no negative coverage of Ireland in the media at all.

Also factor in the amount of people who have Irish ancestry and the fact that there are other groups in the UK that are more "visible" to discriminate against these days.




I hear there is growing anti-Irish sentiment in Australia because of the way a lot of Irish lads behave out there.

Lucy and Harry

The leader is Tommy Robinson.He created it with the backing of some Israeli backers..

crockholm

Shenshen wrote: »

Had to laugh at the idea of a German recognising Irish people by their accent...

Do you think it is implausible?

LincolnsBeard

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

The leader is Tommy Robinson.He created it with the backing of some Israeli backers..

Stephen Lennon is Tommy Robinson. Same person, different names :P

Lucy and Harry

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Stephen Lennon is Tommy Robinson. Same person, different names :P

Dam him and his trickery..:DHe fooled me like the you tube video of him dressed as a Rabbi to evade the cops.Mossad must have trained him.But we are OK he is not after Irish for now it is Islam he is against.

Chuck Stone

Meh. I'd say that kind of thing is becoming less prevalent. Look at UK TV ffs - loads of Irish people and they're very popular.

Off the top of my head:

Dara Ó Briain
Graham Norton
Eamon Holmes
Ed Byrne
Terry Wogan
Patrick Keilty
Laura Whitmore
Liz Boninn
Brian Dowling
Chris O' Dowd
Zig & Zag

Shenshen

crockholm wrote: »

Do you think it is implausible?

Highly.

I've lived here 10 years now, and I've only recently started to be able to actually hear a difference between an Irish accent and, say, Welsh or Scottish.
The best I can do when hearing any English speaker most of the time is hazard a guess which continent they hail from. And even there I'm wrong more often then right.

Put it this way, if you hear someone speaking French, could you tell immediately if they're from Normandy, Corsica, Switzerland or Canada?

Micky Dolenz

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Meh. I'd say that kind of thing is becoming less prevalent. Look at UK TV ffs - loads of Irish people and they're very popular.

Off the top of my head:

Dara Ó Briain
Graham Norton
Eamon Holmes
Ed Byrne
Terry Wogan
Patrick Keilty
Laura Whitmore
Liz Boninn
Brian Dowling
Chris O' Dowd
Zig & Zag

Zig and Zag are from Zog :rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Zig and Zag are from Zog :rolleyes:

Ah yeah but they're naturalised Oirish now.

Miss Lockhart

I have experienced it in New Zealand twice, around a dozen times in Northern Ireland and repeatedly from a college classmate from Northern Ireland.

Overall though it's not something I would worry about or give much thought to.

crockholm

Shenshen wrote: »

Highly.

I've lived here 10 years now, and I've only recently started to be able to actually hear a difference between an Irish accent and, say, Welsh or Scottish.
The best I can do when hearing any English speaker most of the time is hazard a guess which continent they hail from. And even there I'm wrong more often then right.

Put it this way, if you hear someone speaking French, could you tell immediately if they're from Normandy, Corsica, Switzerland or Canada?

I'm in Sweden 2 years and I can easily differentiate between someone from skåne, göteborg,norrland and lidingö(stockholm sub-dialect), have been able to in the past differentiate Austrian from German, and don't get me started on qubecoise,even though its little more than a pattois. In closing,I would say that you just don't have a good ear for these things

Shenshen

crockholm wrote: »

I'm in Sweden 2 years and I can easily differentiate between someone from skåne, göteborg,norrland and lidingö(stockholm sub-dialect), have been able to in the past differentiate Austrian from German, and don't get me started on qubecoise,even though its little more than a pattois. In closing,I would say that you just don't have a good ear for these things

Oh, I can tell Quebecois from France French, and Argentinian from Catalan.
It's just that the differences between English accents are far less pronounced for the most part.
And the closer they're together geographically, the more they sound alike.

Pilotdude5

Not exactly hibernophobia, but I was once flying with a ex-paratrooper who served with the 101st in Vietnam. He told me he would never ever go to Ireland as he's had enough shooting and bombs in his lifetime.
He wasn't joking either.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's Saturday, my brain doesn't work on Saturday. Ask me on Tuesday or Wednesday.

GRMA

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I have experienced it in New Zealand twice, around a dozen times in Northern Ireland and repeatedly from a college classmate from Northern Ireland.

Overall though it's not something I would worry about or give much thought to.

Thats funny cause he/she is Irish too

In the north rather than hibernaphobia I'd call it sectarianism, at least thats what I call the abuse I got (which is very very little... some Irish people think the north is a hive of hatred but tbh abuse is rare enough in "normal" areas)

theholyghost

Shenshen wrote: »

And the closer they're together geographically, the more they sound alike.

I speak the most basic German and only spent 2 mnths there 5 years ago and I can plainly tell a Bavarian accent from a northern one.

Lapin

gallag wrote: »

I really cant understand UK and irish people being racist to each other, same people really, obviously us British are smarter, better looking, make better lovers and dont have as many gingers but we are basically the same!

:P ~

crockholm

Shenshen wrote: »

Oh, I can tell Quebecois from France French, and Argentinian from Catalan.
It's just that the differences between English accents are far less pronounced for the most part.
And the closer they're together geographically, the more they sound alike.

Maybe it's our hubris, but I really thought we sound so different:( that said, I dont think I could recognize any of the Welsh or Scottish regional dialects.
How are you with the different dialects within the German-speaking world?

AngeGal

Shenshen wrote: »

Highly.

I've lived here 10 years now, and I've only recently started to be able to actually hear a difference between an Irish accent and, say, Welsh or Scottish.
The best I can do when hearing any English speaker most of the time is hazard a guess which continent they hail from. And even there I'm wrong more often then right.

Put it this way, if you hear someone speaking French, could you tell immediately if they're from Normandy, Corsica, Switzerland or Canada?

Of course the poster you referenced said it was at Euro 2008 so quite likely Irish jerseys were being worn, even if we hadn't qualified, which is probably what they were recognised by.

Bertie Woot

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I have experienced it in New Zealand twice, around a dozen times in Northern Ireland and repeatedly from a college classmate from Northern Ireland.

Overall though it's not something I would worry about or give much thought to.

Probably the best attitude. If it bothers you, and you let it be known that it bothers you, it only encourages them.

Lucy and Harry

Some Red Heads are nice

Shenshen

crockholm wrote: »

Maybe it's our hubris, but I really thought we sound so different:( that said, I dont think I could recognize any of the Welsh or Scottish regional dialects.
How are you with the different dialects within the German-speaking world?

I tend to be quite good with those. I'm half-Austrian, half-German so I grew up with both Niederoesterreichisch and Fraenkisch dialect.
I'd hear differences in accents in the Southern German/Austrian area quite distinctly.

Northern German tends to be very different to those, and is in areas closer related to English than German. With those, I'd be able to place them in the North, but I couldn't tell you if they're from Ostfriesland or Mecklenburg (a distance of roughly 400km).

Seaneh

Shenshen wrote: »

and Argentinian from Catalan

Well seeing as in Argentina they speak Spanish (and pretty much Castillian with a few differences, Argentina and Uruguay speak very different Spanish to the Andean countries and the rest of South America) and Catalan is an entirely different language and not very similar to Spanish at all, I should hope so :P.

looksee

We are not the same. The English came from a different island, colonised Ireland, then negatively stereotyped the entire Irish people as "stupid", "alcoholics", "lazy" and most recently, "terrorists" to justify 800 years of British colonial oppression, tyranny and genocide. The Irish have never done that to England or indeed any other nation, and now that England the coloniser has become the colonised, they can no longer hold onto their outdated and redundant superiority complex.

Ah petal, you'll give yourself ulcers doing all that hating on behalf of the rest of the population. Just chill a bit.

crockholm

Shenshen wrote: »

I tend to be quite good with those. I'm half-Austrian, half-German so I grew up with both Niederoesterreichisch and Fraenkisch dialect.
I'd hear differences in accents in the Southern German/Austrian area quite distinctly.

Northern German tends to be very different to those, and is in areas closer related to English than German. With those, I'd be able to place them in the North, but I couldn't tell you if they're from Ostfriesland or Mecklenburg (a distance of roughly 400km).

thats true,I recently worked with ein gelbfusser,from around konstanz,and his friend from munich, after a while you pick up on the traits. Whereas I also worked with a Frieslander and a meck-pommer, they sounded quite similar,but I believe both spent a lot of time in Berlin.

Wibbs

Shenshen wrote: »

Put it this way, if you hear someone speaking French, could you tell immediately if they're from Normandy, Corsica, Switzerland or Canada?

Agreed. It's not easy. I've been accused of being Canadian(by Americans wut? I was all "eh ye sound very similar except for words like out"), English(again by Americans, French, German, a New Zelander and oddly by a highland Scots chap). No way do I sound either English or Canadian. I most certainly don't have either received pronunciation nor a mid Atlantic drawl common in some quarters here. I think some outsiders think "Irish" and assume "begorrah, top of the morning".

Bertie Woot wrote: »

We are not the same. The English came from a different island, colonised Ireland, then negatively stereotyped the entire Irish people as "stupid", "alcoholics", "lazy" and most recently, "terrorists" to justify 800 years of British colonial oppression, tyranny and genocide.

Well hang on there a minute. Genetically we are very closely related to the English and Scots and Welsh. The English contrary to popular belief(of outsiders and themselves) aren't Anglo Saxons. I dunno if you caught the recent TV programme where Eddie Izzard traced his genetic heritage? It turns out that his stock had a very rare variant among the English that actually was Anglo Saxon. It stood out because it was so rare. You have to go to places like east Anglia(handily named) to find much Saxon stock and even there it's tiny, present in under 2% of the population. Only on the male lines too. As far as researchers have found, no Saxon female lines remain. So English = Anglo Saxon is wrong. Hate to break it to some, but we're not "Celts" either. The Celtic populations of central Europe have no markers here, outside of us all being European(oh and we're not Spanish/Basques either and even Basques genetics though unique in some places aren't that ancient either). Historically and genetically the peoples of these islands have been going too and fro and mixing since the ice retreated 12,000 years ago. They even found a Roman era Irish blokes gravemarker complete with Ogham inscription from a Roman town in southern England. In essence telling a "pure" Irishman and a "pure" Englishman(or Scots or Welsh) is pretty difficult. We're more alike to each other than the vast majoriy of us would be to mainland Europeans.

The Irish have never done that to England or indeed any other nation,

Oh really? The Irish had Kingdoms in both Scotland and Wales. There are remains of Irish crannogs on Welsh lakes and ever wonder why Scots Gaelic is pretty much the Irish language? Where did the Pictish languages of that region go? Hell even Bede one f the first chroniclers of what would become "England" mentioned the Irish language as one of the tongues spoken.

As for the Irish "never done(sic) to any other nation", we were part of a larger empire for long enough and were the arms and weapons of same for long enough too. Never mind "the Brits", the US 7th cavalry had a large proportion of Irish men serving and ask a native American how friendly they were...

in the kingdom and now that England the coloniser has become the colonised, they can no longer hold onto their outdated and redundant superiority complex.

Better off historically blaming the Norman French. They were the colonisers of both here and the UK, not the English. Indeed they acted more shítty towards the English in the early days. It was near three centuries before an "English" king could speak English like a native.

As for gingervitis, as well as infecting large swathes of Scotland and Ireland, it has also infected many parts of England. Queen Elizabeth II and her entire extended royal family are all gingers. Most have their hair dyed regularly, with Prince Harry being the only member of the Windsor household to not care.

Conspiracy theory forum that away ==> Though there you may be told they're also lizards so... In any event the red hair gene is to be found in England too. It was more common in the past. Among their royalty there were a number of gingers. Henry the eighth was a ginge as was his daughter Lizzy the first. Both were quite proud of their hair colour too. Then again they were of Welsh stock so... Actually precious few of the English royalty have been native "English". Some were Saxon, but the Normans sorted that one, then the Dutch lot, followed by the mid European royal families chimed in(most recently German). So if the current lot are all gingers the gene is French, Scandinavian, Dutch(was king billy a ginge? I seem to recall he may have been) or German.

"No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" and "No Irish Need Apply" (NINA signs) were a common sight in the windows of bed and breakfasts in London in the 1960's, a time long before political correctness.

That's true enough. It got worse with the Troubles, though you can see at least some reasoning there, however daft.

Anti-Irish discrimination was rife in England at that time, and you'll still encounter it today, only in a much subtler form.

I've never really come across it myself. Perhaps I've been lucky. I think it''s maybe because the vast majority of my dealings with English people have been outside the less educated underclass, though I have always been surprised how little even educated English people know about Ireland or Irish history. Most seemed eager to learn more too. They can even be a bit blank on their own. Their history seems to be dominated by the chinless wonders of their aristocracy, the history of the common man really takes a back seat. I suppose it was a way of keeping them down. Socialist English types seem to know way more on that score. I've been shocked how few Brits know about things like the Scottish land clearances. It was a government led act of genocide by movement of huge numbers of ordinary people from their lands for the sake of big landowners. While there can at least be debate over the conduct of the English ruling classes regarding our Irish Famine, there is little or no debate about the clearances and you very very rarely hear it even being mentioned in their media. As if it never happened.

I know a couple of Northern Irish lads that have had crap mind you, so maybe my southern accent makes the difference? I remember years ago a survey done by the BBC Radio Times IIRC that polled the attractiveness of various accents and the accent that won was a soft southern Irish accent, but the one considered least attractive(along with South African) was a harsh Northern accent. I'd suspect the Terry Wogan and Ian Paisley effect respectively going on there.

I have however had some BS from Scottish types. Not much, but way more than with English.

Many English people also oppose Northern Ireland's place within the UK, as NI benefits slightly more under the Barnett Formula, and some English people resent that despite the NI economy suffering a lot more due to 30 years of political violence. During my time on a UK forum I learned that most English people (certainly on that forum) are in favour of Irish unification, as they view N.Ireland as "a nuisance state", a "waste of British tax-payer's money" and "a liability" They do not appreciate Ulster's 'loyalty'.

Ohh I've heard that one myself, more than once and some even dislike the Unionist side more than the Nationalist. They consider the former more "ranty".

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

I hear there is growing anti-Irish sentiment in Australia because of the way a lot of Irish lads behave out there.

I've heard that one alright. I've also heard of a similar sentiment in some paces like tourist areas of Spain, where we can be lumped in with the British and Germans as being "louts".

Bertie Woot

Wibbs wrote: »

Well hang on there a minute. Genetically we are very closely related to the English and Scots and Welsh. The English contrary to popular belief(of outsiders and themselves) aren't Anglo Saxons. I dunno if you caught the recent TV programme where Eddie Izzard traced his genetic heritage? It turns out that his stock had a very rare variant among the English that actually was Anglo Saxon. It stood out because it was so rare. You have to go to places like east Anglia(handily named) to find much Saxon stock and even there it's tiny, present in under 2% of the population. Only on the male lines too. As far as researchers have found, no Saxon female lines remain. So English = Anglo Saxon is wrong. Hate to break it to some, but we're not "Celts" either. The Celtic populations of central Europe have no markers here, outside of us all being European(oh and we're not Spanish/Basques either and even Basques genetics though unique in some places aren't that ancient either). Historically and genetically the peoples of these islands have been going too and fro and mixing since the ice retreated 12,000 years ago. They even found a Roman era Irish blokes gravemarker complete with Ogham inscription from a Roman town in southern England. In essence telling a "pure" Irishman and a "pure" Englishman(or Scots or Welsh) is pretty difficult. We're more alike to each other than the vast majoriy of us would be to mainland Europeans.

It's true that there is less genetic variation in the Pretanic isles than elsewhere in Europe. A study conducted by Trinity College showed that there has been little genetic variation in Ireland since its first inhabitants arrived. An ancient genetic marker, known as "haplogroup 1" is shown to be present in 98.3% of men in Western Ireland. Although Ireland has been subjected to successive invasions by Celts, Gaels, Norse Vikings and Anglo-Normans, this marker has remained relatively undiluted.

The first known settlers in Ireland came form Scotland, and it was the Irish (returning Scots) who in turn settled Scotland. Many of those who belonged to indigenous Irish tribes such as the Ulaid and Cruithne in Ulidia (ancient Ulster) fled Gaelic colonisation and dominance, resettling in Scotland among the Pictish peoples, who were said to be a sister tribe of the Cruthin.

Saint Patrick himself was Scottish and captured by Irish raiders and brought to Ireland as a slave, escaping and returning to Britain before coming back to Ireland as a missionary.

Oh really? The Irish had Kingdoms in both Scotland and Wales. There are remains of Irish crannogs on Welsh lakes and ever wonder why Scots Gaelic is pretty much the Irish language? Where did the Pictish languages of that region go? Hell even Bede one f the first chroniclers of what would become "England" mentioned the Irish language as one of the tongues spoken.

Fair enough, but it is historical fact that the Anglo-Norman invitation to Ireland by one King Dermot MacMurrough, and the subsequent English invasion has had much more impact on Ireland than any Irish excursions to Britain. The English attempted to wipe out the Gaelic language and supplant it with English. It's only been in recent years that we've witnessed a revival of the Gaelic language, and it's important to note that Gaelic is as much a language of a foreign invader as is English.

As for the Irish "never done(sic) to any other nation", we were part of a larger empire for long enough and were the arms and weapons of same for long enough too. Never mind "the Brits", the US 7th cavalry had a large proportion of Irish men serving and ask a native American how friendly they were... Better off historically blaming the Norman French. They were the colonisers of both here and the UK, not the English. Indeed they acted more shítty towards the English in the early days. It was near three centuries before an "English" king could speak English like a native.

If all else fails, blame it on the cheese-eating surrender monkeys! It's true the Irish, Ulster-Scots Irish in particular, played a huge role in the American war of independence, providing the US with no less than 20 of its presidents. Even Obama can trace his lineage back to Ireland.

Conspiracy theory forum that away ==> Though there you may be told they're also lizards so... In any event the red hair gene is to be found in England too. It was more common in the past. Among their royalty there were a number of gingers. Henry the eighth was a ginge as was his daughter Lizzy the first. Both were quite proud of their hair colour too. Then again they were of Welsh stock so... Actually precious few of the English royalty have been native "English". Some were Saxon, but the Normans sorted that one, then the Dutch lot, followed by the mid European royal families chimed in(most recently German). So if the current lot are all gingers the gene is French, Scandinavian, Dutch(was king billy a ginge? I seem to recall he may have been) or German.

King William III has been accused of many things (eg. gay), but I donlt think a being a ginge was one of them. As regards the British Royals all being ginges, that was just a joke.

I've never really come across it myself. Perhaps I've been lucky. I think it''s maybe because the vast majority of my dealings with English people have been outside the less educated underclass, though I have always been surprised how little even educated English people know about Ireland or Irish history. Most seemed eager to learn more too. They can even be a bit blank on their own. Their history seems to be dominated by the chinless wonders of their aristocracy, the history of the common man really takes a back seat. I suppose it was a way of keeping them down. Socialist English types seem to know way more on that score. I've been shocked how few Brits know about things like the Scottish land clearances. It was a government led act of genocide by movement of huge numbers of ordinary people from their lands for the sake of big landowners. While there can at least be debate over the conduct of the English ruling classes regarding our Irish Famine, there is little or no debate about the clearances and you very very rarely hear it even being mentioned in their media. As if it never happened.

I've discovered that the English are generally clueless on Irish history. You have a mixture of ignorance, apathy, and a classic shying away from anything remotely related to empire. They're particularly not comfortable in talking about that act of genocide known as "the great famine", and for obvious reasons.

I know a couple of Northern Irish lads that have had crap mind you, so maybe my southern accent makes the difference? I remember years ago a survey done by the BBC Radio Times IIRC that polled the attractiveness of various accents and the accent that won was a soft southern Irish accent, but the one considered least attractive(along with South African) was a harsh Northern accent. I'd suspect the Terry Wogan and Ian Paisley effect respectively going on there.

The southern Irish accent has been described as "music to the ears". The Northern Irish accent (Belfast in particular) can be likened to taking a hammer drill to one ear, and a distorted loudspeaker turned up to 11 to the other. Most people who want to get anywhere in life outside of Belfast know that they have to ameliorate, lose or soften their Belfast accent, and many have and succeeded. In some parts of working class East Belfast the accent can only be described as HARSH.

Ohh I've heard that one myself, more than once and some even dislike the Unionist side more than the Nationalist. They consider the former more "ranty".

The English view us all as Irish, and regardless of whether you are Northern Irish, Unionist and Protestant, or Southern Irish, Nationalist and Catholic; but they probably do have more dislike of Unionists, and for being a bit too loud at times.

charlemont

shar01 wrote: »

About ten years ago on hols in the Canary Islands, I was in a group of six sitting outside a restaurant. At the next table was an English family (I'm guessing three generations). Anyway waiter drops a glass (it shattered loudly) and the grandmother of the English family said "Oh my gawd, I thought it was a facking bomb" and looked at our table.

We didn't respond - she was looking for a fight so why should we spoil our holiday and give her one!

Does this count?

You should have asked her what city she was from and then proceeded to tell her that you could arrange a bombing there no problem.

I got to talking to some elderly woman at Baker Street tube station and they asked me about Bangor and when I replied that I was from Tipperary they actually shuddered and said "Oh, That's in the south" and walked off.

WoollyRedHat

circadian wrote: »

I'm a phobiaphobiac.

I'm a Phoebephobiac.

shar01

charlemont wrote: »

You should have asked her what city she was from and then proceeded to tell her that you could arrange a bombing there no problem.

Nah... should've told her we normally give warnings! Suicide bomber? Not us - shure what would we do with all dem virgins?:D

shar01

Shenshen wrote: »

Had to laugh at the idea of a German recognising Irish people by their accent...

Didn't give it much thought at the time, just thought it was a funny thing to ask a stranger. None of us were wearing Ireland jerseys - normally de riguer to show that I'm not English. Maybe he'd spent time in Ireland / around Irish.

Of course now I'd hand him an IOU for €94bn

Mr_Spaceman

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

I heard at a Celtic match go home the famine is over.Rangers supporters sang that.Although it was almost funny looking back as it did show some humour but they were vicious in the way they sang it.Not friendly banter..

Rangers supporters in dislike of Celtic shocker!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Indo stirring up ****e as usual.

The amount of "Hibernophobia" ia amsssively outweighed by Anglophobia over here.

And isn't a phobia suppose to be a fear, anyway?

woodoo

Bertie Woot wrote: »

It's only been in recent years that we've witnessed a revival of the Gaelic language, and it's important to note that Gaelic is as much a language of a foreign invader as is English.

How is that?


On the subject, i haven't really experienced much anti irish feeling. I had a New Zealand guy be a bit of a prick to me and it was only after that it dawned on me it may have been because i was irish. Certainly never experienced anything venomous anywhere.

Bertie Woot

=woodoo;83474509]How is that?

Because the Gaels came to Ireland from mainland Europe approximately 500 BC and are not the original people of Ireland. The Gaelic language is not Ireland's original language, it is the language that was imposed upon the indigenous Irish tribes by the colonial Gaels. Centuries later the English did the same thing.

GRMA

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Indo stirring up ****e as usual.

The amount of "Hibernophobia" ia amsssively outweighed by Anglophobia over here.

And isn't a phobia suppose to be a fear, anyway?

look at the date on the piece. The book is very good btw

Huckster

The first time I went to the UK was when I won a competition with a media agency. There were a few other people there who won other categories, but they were all British. In the Q&A session with the head of the media agency, he spent pretty much the whole time berating the Irish as being corrupt, lazy, useless bastards basically. Keeping in mind I was 16 at the time and this was a middle aged man. Not only was it very awkward, it was just so incredibly inappropriate. I was a bit wary of the British since then, but went to London a few weeks ago and they couldn't have been nicer. I guess there will always be ignorant people out there.

Humans eh!

I lived in England in the eighties in the midst of the IRA 'activities'.
I went out with an indian girl and we were known as 'The Paddy & The Paki' by our English friends.It was all good natured and never nasty.

The only racism I encountered was from blacks and asians for going out with an asian girl.
It was really bad, our house was attacked with stoneswe got physical and verbal abuse and our dog was badly attacked. The police were involved countless times, my girlfriend used to get spat upon on the street. Not just because I was white, apparrently it was worse being Irish.
Among asians, to describe something as being Irish denoted it as being coarse and implied it was dirty.

I will point out that in all my years living there, not once did I experience racism from a white English person and with the IRA waging their campaign of violence at the time there were many occasions that I was ashamed to be Irish.

fryup

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Meh. I'd say that kind of thing is becoming less prevalent. Look at UK TV ffs - loads of Irish people and they're very popular.

Off the top of my head:

Dara Ó Briain
Graham Norton
Eamon Holmes
Ed Byrne
Terry Wogan
Patrick Keilty
Laura Whitmore
Liz Boninn
Brian Dowling
Chris O' Dowd
Zig & Zag

well to be fair, even back in the bad ol'days during the troubles you had plenty of irish personalties on british TV

terry wogan
eamon andrews
henry kelly
val doonican
and dave allen had a prime time slot on bbc

woodoo

Humans eh! wrote: »

Coarse and implied it was dirty.

Exactly like modern day India and Pakistan

Humans eh!

woodoo wrote: »

Exactly like modern day India and Pakistan

I can only liken it to them getting their viewpoint from 19th century 'Punch' cartoons of the Irish.
I could never understand why black Afro-Carribean youths jumped on that particular bandwagon though

Lyra Fangs

One experience that comes to mind is overhearing two English fellas having a heated conversation about their hatred of the Irish while I was sitting next to them and yes they were well aware that I was Irish (I worked with them). Highlights of the conversation included one of them wishing there had been a 2nd famine so it might have 'finished the rest of them off'

Arpa

You shouldn't take offense at Irishman jokes. Irish people know how to take a joke. Ifyou're offended then you're a gobsh*te. If it's really offensive...then laugh all the more. Ireland is a fantastic country that has a wealth of intelligence and beauty over its neighbours comparitively. We have nothing to be ashamed about. If the main joke is that we died from famine...then you have to look more at the person who is making the joke.

Wibbs

Bertie Woot wrote: »

It's true that there is less genetic variation in the Pretanic isles than elsewhere in Europe. A study conducted by Trinity College showed that there has been little genetic variation in Ireland since its first inhabitants arrived. An ancient genetic marker, known as "haplogroup 1" is shown to be present in 98.3% of men in Western Ireland. Although Ireland has been subjected to successive invasions by Celts, Gaels, Norse Vikings and Anglo-Normans, this marker has remained relatively undiluted.

As has the "English" genotype, even though there is a clear historical influx of Romans and Saxons to name but two. Which haplogroup 1 are you specifically referring to? It's a wide field. The hap 1 that is strongest in Scandinavia is about equal between these islands.

The first known settlers in Ireland came form Scotland,

They're not exactly sure about that.

Saint Patrick himself was Scottish

Unlikely. Scotland was left alone by the Romans. Mainly cos they got well fcuked over anytime they tried to bring them under the Roman yoke. Hadrians wall being a more than obvious border. So how could Patrick be Scotish? He was a Romano Britain, a Christian from a line of same. His da a deacon and his granda a bishop, versed in Latin(vulgate though it was) and the new religion. He was within the falling light of Rome's influence. Vanishingly few Scots would have been similar at the time. So Paddy was a northern English lad in todays geography and terms. I find his origins interesting when it comes to the Irish psyche over the years. Growing up I heard he was Welsh, Scots at a push and even some eejits said he was of French descent.(he did serve some of his ecclesiastical time in France though) Anything but "Brit!". Who gives an actual fcuk? I mean the English today think Augustine brought Christianity to Britain. Yea lads, pity he was a bit tardy as the Micks had been there a couple of centuries before him and clearly the religion was in Britain as otherwise how could Paddy and his da and his granda been died in the wool Roman Christians? The bullshít piles high in invented culture.

Fair enough, but it is historical fact that the Anglo-Norman invitation to Ireland by one King Dermot MacMurrough, and the subsequent English invasion has had much more impact on Ireland than any Irish excursions to Britain.

True but that's the nature of the beast. Perfidious Albion being bigger an all.

The English attempted to wipe out the Gaelic language and supplant it with English.

Also the nature of the beast. Languages get supplanted. It's a historical given.

It's only been in recent years that we've witnessed a revival of the Gaelic language,

And even thats hardly been the greatest of successes.

and it's important to note that Gaelic is as much a language of a foreign invader as is English.

True enough BW. Rare you see people saying that. Still, like I say that's a given. People migrate to the most useful form of communication, whether that be from trade or colony or even fashion.

If all else fails, blame it on the cheese-eating surrender monkeys!

Yep but true. It was the Scandinavian French. Though surrender monkeys they were not. Thats some good old Yankee hype. The French army are about teh most successful military force in Europe since Rome fell. The English may shout "remember Agincourt!!", but tend to forget every other battle of that war where the French handed them their arse on a plate.

It's true the Irish, Ulster-Scots Irish in particular, played a huge role in the American war of independence, providing the US with no less than 20 of its presidents. Even Obama can trace his lineage back to Ireland.

I wasn't talking of the Uster Scots, the "hillbillies"(interesting and obvious background to that term), Im talking of the Catholic Irish in arms like the 7th cavalry.

I've discovered that the English are generally clueless on Irish history. You have a mixture of ignorance, apathy, and a classic shying away from anything remotely related to empire. They're particularly not comfortable in talking about that act of genocide known as "the great famine", and for obvious reasons.

For a start I'd really take issue with the "genocide" tag. It's far too lazy and fashionable a term when looking for external and internal support/horror/justification. Plus I've had zero issue with English folks when on rare occasions the subject came up. Well I wouldn't think it would be much of an issue after all those folks I was talking with weren't responsible, nor where the vast majority of their ancestors. It's like the shíte you sometimes get from people in the US over the slavery issue. The "oh you're white your ancestors enslaved my people". GTFO. 99% of whites at the time were poor, many were indentured glorified slaves themselves. the vast majority didn't own other people.

The southern Irish accent has been described as "music to the ears". The Northern Irish accent (Belfast in particular) can be likened to taking a hammer drill to one ear, and a distorted loudspeaker turned up to 11 to the other. Most people who want to get anywhere in life outside of Belfast know that they have to ameliorate, lose or soften their Belfast accent, and many have and succeeded. In some parts of working class East Belfast the accent can only be described as HARSH.

I'd tend to agree there. I remember a chat with a voice coach for movies and the like and he reckoned the Belfast accent was easy enough if you could do say a Donegal accent, only clench your teeth and stick out your lower jaw and it came naturally. An accent born of siege and saying "never!!". On both sides.

The English view us all as Irish, and regardless of whether you are Northern Irish, Unionist and Protestant, or Southern Irish, Nationalist and Catholic; but they probably do have more dislike of Unionists, and for being a bit too loud at times.

I have found they differ in attitude quite a bit and can discern the difference in background. Indeed have seen this up close A situation where I was the "southerner" among "northerners" and I was viewed much more favourably even though they were Unionists "loyal to the crown".

fryup

Bertie Woot wrote: »

It's true that there is less genetic
Saint Patrick himself was Scottish and captured by Irish raiders and brought to Ireland as a slave, escaping and returning to Britain before coming back to Ireland as a missionary.

i was led to believe he came from wales

crockholm

From 1400 AD onwards I would imagine that the French would have been seen as the most feared soldiers from 1650-1815.

The Pheasant

Last Summer in Portugal my friend and I were at a bar, having a few beers and don't why but we started speaking in Irish. Anyway there are these birds from Manchester who we'd been talking to earlier and they start asking us what we're on about - we explain that we were speaking in Irish. And yer one refuses to believe there's an actual Irish language. She's all "there's a Celtic language called welsh but there's no such thing as Irish..." we explain that there is, it's called Gaeilge etc and she just says we're lying! So we continue trying to explain to her and then she just says "Yeah well England owns Ireland anyway." at this point I politely told her to go fcuk herself and stormed off, leaving my friend in a fairly awkward position!

fryup

The Pheasant wrote: »

and then she just says "Yeah well England owns Ireland anyway." at this point I politely told her to go fcuk herself and stormed off, leaving my friend in a fairly awkward position!

how diplomatic of you:cool:

she was probably just pullin your leg