Player Of The Year 2012/2013

aramush

Who makes up the vote for this award?

Chucky the tree

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nonsense, there is no comparison between them apart from their goal scoring stats. those stats hide the fact that all bar 4 of Suarezs goals have come against the bottom teams in the league, the likes of Qpr, Wigan, Norwich and Sunderland.

RVP has scored vital goals against all the top teams, in tight games including several winners in games that were decided by his goals.Suarez has yet to score a really crucial goal this seasons that results in Liverpool getting a win, RVP has about 8 of them.

id vote for Michael Carrick, he has been the most important player in the league this season.

Good old facts homerjay style. Suarez has scored against every team in the top half of the table except United, Spurs and WBA.

homerjay2005

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Good old facts homerjay style. Suarez has scored against every team in the top half of the table except United, Spurs and WBA.

his only goals of note this season, are against City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton, the other 17 have been pretty meaningless against poor quality opposition.

Leiva

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his only goals of note this season, are against City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton, the other 17 have been pretty meaningless against poor quality opposition.

So now ladies and gentlemen.

Fück your goals unless they are against a top 4 side.

Jeez homer your posts get more bizarre by the day.

PhlegmyMoses

Leiva wrote: »

So now ladies and gentlemen.

Fück your goals unless they are against a top 4 side.

Jeez homer your posts get more bizarre by the day.

There are a handful of people on this forum who prefer to belittle a poster than debate with them.

So far, we've had one word "lol" replies to posts and stuff like this.

If you disagree, why not put forward an alternate argument rather than passive aggressive pussyfooting around?

Melion

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nonsense, there is no comparison between them apart from their goal scoring stats. those stats hide the fact that all bar 4 of Suarezs goals have come against the bottom teams in the league, the likes of Qpr, Wigan, Norwich and Sunderland.

RVP has scored vital goals against all the top teams, in tight games including several winners in games that were decided by his goals.Suarez has yet to score a really crucial goal this seasons that results in Liverpool getting a win, RVP has about 8 of them.

id vote for Michael Carrick, he has been the most important player in the league this season.

A 2 week ban and i come back to this what else have j missed?

monkey9

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his only goals of note this season, are against City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton, the other 17 have been pretty meaningless against poor quality opposition.

Comedy gold!!

Turtyturd

Melion wrote: »

A 2 week ban and i come back to this what else have j missed?

Suarez is a 'shameful racist'....just incase you missed it.;)

Will I Amnt

Turtyturd wrote: »

Suarez is a 'shameful racist'....just incase you missed it.;)

It was only a 2 week ban not 2 seasons :pac:

PhlegmyMoses

Turtyturd wrote: »

Suarez is a 'shameful racist'....just incase you missed it.;)

Now now Turtyturd, we all had a load of posts deleted from this very thread from another claim you made today.

Leiva

But the lol replies are pure "lol" and deserve nothing more, if even a reply.

Look I voted for Suarez but RVP probably will nip it , but I don't think it will because of Suarez's "off field antic" or the uber ridiculous claims made on this thread about the guy.

I also find it bizarre that the same posters who go around mickey waving, game in-game out saying how shìt Liverpool are etc etc, and how much better the UTD squad is in quality and dept etc etc... don't seem to grasp that if anything Suarez's achievements in this so called shït Liverpool team hold more weight when compared to the resources and supply RVP has around him at UTD - but no that would a show of hypocrisy, so I won't hold my breath.

homerjay2005

Leiva wrote: »

So now ladies and gentlemen.

Fück your goals unless they are against a top 4 side.

Jeez homer your posts get more bizarre by the day.

we are talking about player of the year and comparing two strikers with similar stats. the facts are RVPs goals have more weight behind them than a striker who has the majority of his goals in games against pretty poor opposition. if you and the other victimised liverpool fans want to deny this, then thats good for you.

people were comparing Bale to Ronaldo during the week, Ronaldo scored two goals at the Nou Camp, Bale scored twice at Upton Park. theres a big f*cking difference.

Liverpools problems are not beating the likes of Norwich, QPR and Wigan, its getting wins against the bigger 6-8 teams and Suarez has yet to step up and help his side to win these games, something RVP has been this year. hence the point i am making.

Turtyturd

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Now now Turtyturd, we all had a load of posts deleted from this very thread from another claim you made today.

Yet oddly enough the post about Suarez which has nothing to back it up remains.

homerjay2005

Leiva wrote: »

Look I voted for Suarez but RVP probably will nip it

so what has Suarez done that RVP hasnt? right now, a hat trick against Wigan has him 2 goals ahead...is this the advantage he has for you?

surely to god, any reasonable poster would admit that if you compare the goals scored, RVP's are more crucial/important/relevent etc etc?

PhlegmyMoses

You should still debate it. The lol posts are incredibly tedious.

As for your post, I agree that Suarez's off-field antics shouldn't preclude him from the award.

I disagree with the argument that RVP has better resources so should be handicapped in some way. He had worse resources at Arsenal last year and had done better than Suarez has at this stage of the season. Also, at United, other players share the burden. Some games Rooney will get the goals, others it'll be Hernandez or Kagawa or Welbeck or Nani or whoever. All play does not go through RVP, like it does with Suarez at Liverpool. RVP is just another very good cog in the machine.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

But the lol replies are pure "lol" and deserve nothing more, if even a reply.

Look I voted for Suarez but RVP probably will nip it , but I don't think it will because of Suarez's "off field antic" or the uber ridiculous claims made on this thread about the guy.

I also find it bizarre that the same posters who go around mickey waving, game in-game out saying how shìt Liverpool are etc etc, and how much better the UTD squad is in quality and dept etc etc... don't seem to grasp that if anything Suarez's achievements in this so called shït Liverpool team hold more weight when compared to the resources and supply RVP has around him at UTD - but no that would a show of hypocrisy, so I won't hold my breath.

Forget the players around them. There's plenty of examples of players moving to bigger clubs and not being able to transfer their form to their new club. You don't have to look to far to see that.

Leiva

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so what has Suarez done that RVP hasnt? right now, a hat trick against Wigan has him 2 goals ahead...is this the advantage he has for you?

surely to god, any reasonable poster would admit that if you compare the goals scored, RVP's are more crucial/important/relevent etc etc?

I'm not going to get into this as its a matter of opinion as to how much "weight" a goal was in a particular game, but a goal is a goal in my eyes and cannot be discredited just because of the opposition on the day, which you claimed.

Also the POTY is not purely a highest goal scoring competition, but it is a major factor, as I touched on in my last post - when both players squads are compared then Suarez comes on top for me, as his pure work ethic has really shone through this season and he has earned his place in this debate with pure grit.

And also shutting up the majority along the way with what his does best. Scoring goals.

Leiva

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You should still debate it. The lol posts are incredibly tedious.

As for your post, I agree that Suarez's off-field antics shouldn't preclude him from the award.

I disagree with the argument that RVP has better resources so should be handicapped in some way. He had worse resources at Arsenal last year and had done better than Suarez has at this stage of the season. Also, at United, other players share the burden. Some games Rooney will get the goals, others it'll be Hernandez or Kagawa or Welbeck or Nani or whoever. All play does not go through RVP, like it does with Suarez at Liverpool. RVP is just another very good cog in the machine.

Rooney has been outstanding and his current "unsung hero" role is probably the best role for him going forward.
He has been immense in helping RVP hit the ground running. No one can deny that!

Who has Suarez had?

PhlegmyMoses

Leiva wrote: »

Rooney has been outstanding and his current "unsung hero" role is probably the best role for him going forward.
He has been immense in helping RVP hit the ground running. No one can deny that!

Who has Suarez had?

But this doesn't really negate my point.

RVP dragged a weak Arsenal side to 4th last year. To now handicap him for playing in a good team despite him being the best player in that team is illogical. He doesn't need to drag his team kicking and screaming through games like Suarez does. Looking at different circumstances like that isn't an accurate way of making your decision. It's an eyeball test. Who is playing the best football?

Leiva

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It's an eyeball test. Who is playing the best football?

Both!

That's why I have to keep drilling it down.

Chucky the tree

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we are talking about player of the year and comparing two strikers with similar stats. the facts are RVPs goals have more weight behind them than a striker who has the majority of his goals in games against pretty poor opposition. if you and the other victimised liverpool fans want to deny this, then thats good for you.

people were comparing Bale to Ronaldo during the week, Ronaldo scored two goals at the Nou Camp, Bale scored twice at Upton Park. theres a big f*cking difference.

Liverpools problems are not beating the likes of Norwich, QPR and Wigan, its getting wins against the bigger 6-8 teams and Suarez has yet to step up and help his side to win these games, something RVP has been this year. hence the point i am making.

Suarez has stepped to a level pretty close to RVP though:
1 goal each vs Everton
1 goal each vs Chelsea
1 goal each vs City
1 goal each vs Arsenal


RVP has scored against Spurs when Suarez has not. A few teams he hasn't played twice. The difference in winning those games in down to the better players at United.

Hulk Hands

I cant understand why the point that Van Persie has performed better in the big games is being belittled. It's obvious and very valid. The same as Suarez having little help is a valid point that will work in his favour.

In any case, if Bale continues his current form for another few weeks I think he'll overtake both. Momentum is massive in awards like this

Hulk Hands

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Suarez has stepped to a level pretty close to RVP though:
1 goal each vs Everton
1 goal each vs Chelsea
1 goal each vs City
1 goal each vs Arsenal


RVP has scored against Spurs when Suarez has not. A few teams he hasn't played twice. The difference in winning those games in down to the better players at United.

Van Persie scored twice versus Chelsea. He also got one in each game vs Liverpool. I trust you'd still see that as a big game for United? Add in the Spurs goal and he has nearly double the tally in big games.

Chucky the tree

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Van Persie scored twice versus Chelsea. He also got one in each game vs Liverpool. I trust you'd still see that as a big game for United? Add in the Spurs goal and he has nearly double the tally in big games.

Pretty sure he only has one against Chelsea. He has 3 more goals, given the difference in talent between the teams that's hardly surprising.

monkey9

Both players are world class and would be worthy winners!! Maybe it's better if Bale wins it though to end the Liverpool Vs Manc Utd debate.

darced

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Every goal scored by Luis was vital as until recently no one else was scoring any!

everdead.ie

I'd actually love to see a score distribution table of Suarez, RVP, Bale, Walcott and mata.

I'd imagine Mata would actually have the most consistent distribution of scoring consistently in games?

mike65

Here you go well its not a table, lists

Bale http://int.soccerway.com/players/gareth-bale/15482/
Michu http://int.soccerway.com/players/miguel--perez--cuesta/63979/
Suarez http://int.soccerway.com/players/luis-suarez/2290/
Van Persie http://int.soccerway.com/players/robin-van-persie/49/
Mata http://int.soccerway.com/players/juan-manuel-mata-garcia/19106/

d22ontour

Either Suarez or Van Persie should win it imo but after Giggs and Bales previous wins, it seems that footballers don't tend to vote quite accurately at times. Bales and Suarez diving antics could possibly go against them too.
I would probably go for Suarez as he has almost by himself got Liverpool into a comfortable mid table position, he has shown his amazing ability though his cheating is a big negative but as a player he is great to watch.

everdead.ie

mike65 wrote: »

Here you go well its not a table, lists

Bale http://int.soccerway.com/players/gareth-bale/15482/
Michu http://int.soccerway.com/players/miguel--perez--cuesta/63979/
Suarez http://int.soccerway.com/players/luis-suarez/2290/
Van Persie http://int.soccerway.com/players/robin-van-persie/49/
Mata http://int.soccerway.com/players/juan-manuel-mata-garcia/19106/

So Suarez scored

5 v Wigan
4 v Norwich
3 v Sunderland
2 v QPR
1 v Chelsea,Everton, Man City,Fulham, Swansea, Arsenal,Newcastle

11 Different clubs

Van Persie
3 v Southampton
2 v Liverpool, Wigan
1 v Everton, Spurs,West Brom,Newcastle,Sunderland,Man City,West Ham,Reading,Arsenal,Chelsea,Stoke,Fulham
15 different clubs

Mata
2 v Spurs,Arsenal
1 v Newcastle,Reading, Man Utd,West Ham, Sunderland, Norwich
8 differrent clubs

Bale
3 v West Ham,Villa
2 v Newcastle,Arsenal
1 v Man Utd,West Brom,Norwich,Liverpool, Southampton,Reading

10 different clubs

I think once you add in assists RVP has just been so consistent it has to be him?

Mr.Nice Guy

RVP deserves it imo. Dunno if it was mentioned in this thread but Sky had a stat the other night that Van Persie has earned more points for his team in a losing or drawing position than any other player. He was carrying United for a period in the early part of the season and I'm not sure they would be top without him.

Bale will win it though. British players - including him - have won it for less.

Chucky the tree

everdead.ie wrote: »

So Suarez scored
6 v Norwich
5 v Wigan
3 v Sunderland
1 v Chelsea,Everton, Man City,Fulham, Swansea, Arsenal

9 Different clubs

He scored vs Newcastle and 2 v QPR.

Will I Amnt

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He scored vs Newcastle and 2 v QPR.

That would make 23. Someone has something wrong there.

CSF

cambo2008 wrote: »

That would make 23. Someone has something wrong there.

He only scored 4 v Norwich.

Mikeyt086

You could argue that RVP's goals and performances are leading United to a title. But you could also argue that Suarez's goals and performances have been through putting the team on his back with very little help.

Honestly I would probably give it to Suarez. But then again on another day I may lean towards Van Persie. Both have been far and away the stand out players in the league.

Bale has been monstrous since Xmas but you can gtfo if you think he's been the best in the league all season.

everdead.ie

CSF wrote: »

He only scored 4 v Norwich.

I see what happened the table goes back to last season and he had a hat trick against them sorry

Optimalprimerib

carlop wrote: »

Suarez has been excellent but Van Persie has been the definition of clutch this season. The award should be over a season, not the last few weeks.

People always have stupidly short memories when it comes to these things. If Suarez hadn't scored a hat-trick yesterday he wouldn't be winning this poll.

Who does Suarez play for?? If he scored half the goals this season he did he would still win it. Liverpool are easily the most supported team on boards so no wonder he is way out on front. This makes the poll extremely unbalanced.

Melion

What is the point of all this rubbish? Bale is going to win the feckin thing.

GavRedKing

Should go to either Suarez or RVP, leaning slightly to RVP, Suarez 2nd, close between Bale and Mata for 3rd.

The_Kew_Tour

GavRedKing wrote: »

Should go to either Suarez or RVP, leaning slightly to RVP, Suarez 2nd, close between Bale and Mata for 3rd.

I give Mata that 3rd spot personally.

Although I tend to agree with Melion in that I now think Bale has this wrapped up no matter what he does.

Playboy

When does the voting take place? Awards like this should wait until the season is over imo.

LuckyLloyd

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

There are a handful of people on this forum who prefer to belittle a poster than debate with them.

So far, we've had one word "lol" replies to posts and stuff like this.

If you disagree, why not put forward an alternate argument rather than passive aggressive pussyfooting around?

Not every post is of equal merit or deserving of equal amount of time and effort in response.

mike65

Playboy wrote: »

When does the voting take place? Awards like this should wait until the season is over imo.

Of course! Apparently the early voting period goes back to when chaps named Bert and Rufus had to send the votes by carrier pigeon.

Hidalgo

Those arguing that Suarez has a surge of support going on the last few weeks are missing the real reason why he should be such a strong contender.

Yes he has been banging them in recently, but for me his goals from the start of the season till Christmas were more important. He has Sturridge now to take some of the flak, add in Couthinho (who has only started 2 games, but it is another attacking player). With the January arrivals it means opposition defences have more threats to try and stop. Up till Jan, stop Suarez and you stop Liverpool. Without his goals then they would have potentially flirting with relegation.

I think to win it, its a player's form in the 2nd half of the season that can swing it. Having an average 1st half but a blinding 2nd half gives you a far better chance than the other way around.

It's Bale's to lose at this stage with RVP coming 2nd and Suarez 3rd is how I see the voting panning out

SlickRic

Bale should not be winning it. he will, but he really, really shouldn't be.

he's been stunning since Christmas in his new role, but taking the season as a whole, I just don't see how he's the best in the League. the hype, simply because he's British, is just silly. Gary Neville even had to stop Martin Tyler on commentary from comparing the lad to Messi and Ronaldo.

I'm a big fan of Bale, and I'm petrified of what he might do to Liverpool this coming weekend.

but objectively, RVP and Suarez have been above and beyond the rest, with Mata next, fighting it out with Bale for that 3rd spot.

Mata's suffering now because he's had a couple of games without much happening for him. he's been phenomenal though.

also, as much as some might think Suarez deserves it, he won't be getting the votes.

Rekop dog

Saying "without Suarez they'd be potential relegation fodder' is such basic level thinking. There's many examples of teams who've lost their best player who've ended up performing better or similar to how they did without their star. The emphasis often moves more to the collective rather than overly relying on one player which can then in turn generate a better team spirit. It could of course go the other way and they could indeed struggle badly without him but it would be in no way the foregone conclusion some people are making it out to be.

Hidalgo

Rekop dog wrote: »

Saying "without Suarez they'd be potential relegation fodder' is such basic level thinking. There's many examples of teams who've lost their best player who've ended up performing better or similar to how they did without their star. The emphasis often moves more to the collective rather than overly relying on one player which can then in turn generate a better team spirit. It could of course go the other way and they could indeed struggle badly without him but it would be in no way the foregone conclusion some people are making it out to be.

That's why I said potentially, who knows if Suarez wasn't there other players might have got in those positions and got some of the goals he did, maybe yes maybe no.

Last year he was getting in similar positions but wasn't prolific enough, this year he's putting away his chances.

tupac_healy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not every post is of equal merit or deserving of equal amount of time and effort in response.

Lol!!!!

Leiva

must.try.harder