No silly questions?????

Stevegeraghty

I'm going on the whole thing that there is no such thing as a stupid question:D

So my dad got a lovely .22 last week,his first rifle, he has been at the range getting to grips with it and has put a fair few rounds through it.
Today he came out to me and we went for a few bunnies,I only have an air rifle and a shotty so I have no experience With rifles,
I was following a bunny in the scope with a round chambered waiting for bugs to stop when he ran into a gorse bush and gonzo
My problem came when I wanted to unchamber the round???? How do I do that?
Dad didn't know either, after we got back to the house there was still a round in the chamber, I ended up firing it into the bank.
There must be a safer way to unchamber a round?

German pointer

Stevegeraghty wrote: »

I'm going on the whole thing that there is no such thing as a stupid question:D

So my dad got a lovely .22 last week,his first rifle, he has been at the range getting to grips with it and has put a fair few rounds through it.
Today he came out to me and we went for a few bunnies,I only have an air rifle and a shotty so I have no experience With rifles,
I was following a bunny in the scope with a round chambered waiting for bugs to stop when he ran into a gorse bush and gonzo
My problem came when I wanted to unchamber the round???? How do I do that?
Dad didn't know either, after we got back to the house there was still a round in the chamber, I ended up firing it into the bank.
There must be a safer way to unchamber a round?

Just remove the magazine and cycle the bolt while pointing the gun in a safe direction. Checking that the round was removed during the cycle.

Cass

Is it a bolt action? Then simply open the bolt, the live round will simply be ejected. Then remove the bolt, and mag to unload the remainder of the rounds.

If it's a semi auto simply work the action via the handle, grip on the bolt, after you have dropped the mag. Cycle it manually a couple of times to guarantee it's clear, and you're golden.

Stevegeraghty

German pointer wrote: »

Just remove the magazine and cycle the bolt while pointing the gun in a safe direction. Checking that the round was removed during the cycle.

Makes sense
Thanks

garv123

Stevegeraghty wrote: »

Makes sense
Thanks

did your dad not know how to unload the gun?

One shot on kill

Surly after loading it you would have an idea anyway SURELY

Bunny Buster

As mentioned above, just cycle the bolt ( assuming it's bolt action ) and it will be unloaded. Surely you should have made the gun safe by firing it before carrying it back to the house? Might I suggest that your dad goes out with a more competent rifle shooter ( no smartness intended ) before his next outing, in order to learn the basics and ensure he doesn't pose and further safety risks. Good luck with it going forward, it's all about learning but one must assume safe practice at all times when shooting.

Cass

As the title suggests there are no silly questions. What may seem second nature to some is not to others. There is no judgment.

We all started somewhere. I recently met a man, in his late 50's, and he looked confused. I approached with a friendly greeting, and asked was everything okay. He looked at me kinda embarrassed, and said "i don't know how to get the bolt out of my gun". The dealer set up the rifle for him, and in the time he had it he never could get it out, and was too shy/embarrassed to ask.

I showed him, and had him do it a couple of times, and now he knows. Age does not indicate knowledge of everything. There are more, and more men in their later age getting either into shooting or back into it after a long absence, and the change in the types of firearms, and the differences in their workings is so much that they struggle with some of the more basic features. Some have only ever known a shotgun so rifles are alien to them completely.

One shot on kill

I'm sure ye both were very safe going back to the house. I presume when you say first rifle that he had maybe a shot gun or something before. If he is still unsure with the rifle may be suggest a proficiency coarse just to get up to speed a bit quicker.

If yor dads range is anything like the one I was on it wouldn't be long before guys a bitching and giving out saying he isn't safe. No one wants or needs that ****e. Just take your time and dont panic make sure the gun is always pointing in a safe direction (loaded or not). Or as said before a more experienced shooter a couple of times.

sfakiaman

It may not be the case that the OP doesn't know how to cycle the bolt. My own rifle, a CZ Varmint, will not eject unfired CCI cartriges though it has no problem with any other I have tried. If its not inexperience thats causing the problem then maybe a change of ammo might help.

deerhunter1

One shot on kill wrote: »

I'm sure ye both were very safe going back to the house. I presume when you say first rifle that he had maybe a shot gun or something before. If he is still unsure with the rifle may be suggest a proficiency coarse just to get up to speed a bit quicker.

If yor dads range is anything like the one I was on it wouldn't be long before guys a bitching and giving out saying he isn't safe. No one wants or needs that ****e. Just take your time and dont panic make sure the gun is always pointing in a safe direction (loaded or not). Or as said before a more experienced shooter a couple of times.

If it was his first gun I was sure you had to have a Proficiency course done in order to get a Firearm

wildcatares22

as said above, do a course or hang with someone with good experience, or maybe someone from here could tag along with ye both for a shoot or two. what part of the country are ya in?

xchrisshana

when you buy any type of fire arm in this country it should be law that the dealer should give you a run down on how the gun works how to load and unload how to make safe when a round is chambered how to take a part and clean . i was in a dealers a few weeks back and there were two lads talking one was selling a shotgun to him(not the dealer) he asked the owner how dose he clean it and he siad to him i dont no have the gun 3 years and never striped it down cuase i dont know how i used it every weekend and shes still working . its not any 1s fault even if the dealer spent 30mins with the first time buyer at least it would be something every one has to start some where

Cass

deerhunter1 wrote: »

If it was his first gun I was sure you had to have a Proficiency course done in order to get a Firearm

You do, and maybe the OP's Father done one. However i have seen proficiency courses where they concentrate on shotguns, and then show a rifle, and say "this is a rifle, course done".

Now i don't really wanna get into a thread derailment with a debate on proficiency courses, but some are really not up to scratch, and as long as they remain "unregulated" courses will continue to be below par in terms of effectiveness.

xchrisshana wrote: »

when you buy any type of fire arm in this country it should be law that the dealer should give you a run down on how the gun works how to load and unload how to make safe when a round is chambered how to take a part and clean...........

I understand what you are trying to say, but the problem does not rest with the dealer. Most dealers will give everyone a quick run down. The other issue can be lads saying "i know it all" so the dealer doesn't bother. For exampe when i picked up my .243 i asked how does the bolt release/come out? The dealer, whom i've known for a long time, looked at me and grinned. I said i was serious. I would have eventually worked it out, but because i've known the dealer for over 10 years he assumed i would know.

The other more important issue about making it a law that dealers must do this is it leaves them legally responsible, and should anything happen then they may be liable for any injury to the gun owner/third parties if an accident happens. It's the same reasons, imo, why Gardaí do not officially recognise any proficiency courses here. If they gave it their stamp of approval they would be legally responsible for anyone getting trained with that instructor.

My point is if the PTB want courses, and such for firearms owners then they should either provide the platform to have them carried out or at the very least officially back those they deem fit to run such courses.

xchrisshana

i hear you but if a driving instructor teaches you to drive and then you crash and kill some 1 that dose not make him liable but you have been properly instructed i cant see the gardai getting involved for two reason 1 is fund's and two there isnt many of them up to speed with fire arms and the 1,s that are . are best needed on the streets buts it has to be address,d loading and unloading of a gun a basic and a real need to know

Cass

xchrisshana wrote: »

i hear you but if a driving instructor teaches you to drive and then you crash and kill some 1 that dose not make him liable .........

No.

Because driving instructors must undergo testing, vetting, and have the appropriate insurance, qualifications before they are legally allowed to teach. IOW thy have to adhere to a minimum standard which is recognised by the PTB. Regulated.

People running competency courses do not have to do any of this. I'm not saying all courses are a joke, some are well run, and done so by competent people. However like all things more and more people are jumping on the bandwagon and consider themselves to be competent instructors because they have been shooting for 20/30+ years.

There is a difference between being a good, and safe shooter and being a good, competent instructor. It demands a certain skill set to be able to teach people. I've been shooting for over 25 years, but would not consider myself an instructor.

xchrisshana

thats what im saying make it law so they are regulated and have to have appropriate skills in instruction so that when they sell a fire arm that they know that the new owner is compident. look this could go on and on all im say,n is that getting into hunting and shooting can be very intimidating and if you had some one on one time getting to know how to operate your new gun before you walk out the door would that not make sense

Cass

There is no need to make firearms dealers responsible for firearm safety. It's like car dealers being forced to make people do a driving test before being allowed to sell a car (to keep with your car metaphor).

There is a need for firearm training course regulation. However as it's not viewed as being a priority unlike driving, etc. then the time is simply not going to be given to it. If firearms dealers, only, were made to do it then it would mean ranges, clubs, etc could not hold courses. So i'm not talking about giving the responsibility to one group only, but to regulate anyone that wants to do it. Like driving testers they would have to be tested, and trained themselves before being allowed to train others.

Now here is where the issue arises. No such facility exists to do this. There will be no money put towards such a program. It's the same as the proofing of firearms issue. The law that made proofing a legal requirement in Ireland was revoked within weeks of being drafted because of the cost of setting up such a facility to do this. (Back in 69 or 70 IIRC)


I'm not looking to raise an issue that will lead to more money being spent, as people already have to pay for courses. So it will not effect the average Joe looking for a license. However it will regulate those that believe they are competent purely from having years of experience rather than having a professionally trained background, and it will force them to put more effort into it as they will be responsible (to a degree) for anyone they approve/pass.

I've heard of courses going from €25 to €125. Lasting form 30 minutes to 3 days. Yet at the end of it the lad with the €25, 30 minute course is deemed as competent as the lad with the €125, 3 day course.

What is needed is training for instructors, and for An Gardaí or the DoJ whomever would vet such courses) to give it their stamp of approval. Without that any courses, or trained instructors would be no better than what we already have.

xchrisshana

100% RIGHT i cant see it happening any time soon

Sparks

Just on a small point, there is no legal requirement whatsoever to do a proficiency course to get a licence.

There is a competency requirement, but:

• There's a long gap between competency (which means a basic minimal level of knowledge sufficent that the person is safe to operate a firearm); and proficiency (which is what we give out medals for in target shooting).
• The competency requirement can be met in a number of different ways, all equally valid. Courses are definitely one of those (but no course can give a guarantee that it will meet the competency requirement - before you part with a cent, ask your Superintendent if he'll accept the course first. Other means include being on a training certificate to learn as you go; having held a certificate before; or anything else the Superintendent will accept.

(Oh, and it's the driving test that gives you your driving licence - so we'd need a shooting test for a shooting licence in this analogy, and even the HCAP has met such resistance that a shooting test like that would cause uproar...)

xchrisshana

i may not be right in saying this but i think you have to prove your shooting skills in most of Europe before you get your hunting license im not saying every one has to be marks man just the basics that's my 2 cents thanks lads

Stevegeraghty

My Dad did a course when he got his shotty a few years back, when he got the .22 he spent 2 days with the guy who sold him the gun on the range being shown how to use it, he never found himself in a situation where he needed to unload it so he never thought to ask, also your man never said it to him.
Now he knows to ask somthing when he goes back up there.

Im not in a club, I have a little bit of land and my neighbours very kindly let me shoot over their land, I don't have many friends that shoot so I come here for advice, as do many others I'd say, I'm not sure I'd ask too many more questions if I'm made feel stupid for asking somthing others find second nature!!!


Maybe I'm just being paranoid

Cass

Stevegeraghty wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being paranoid

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get ya.

Seriously though. Questions are asked daily that some find "silly" or comes as second nature to others. It should not prevent you from asking.

I think i understand some people's "disbelief". Unloading a rifle would not be a common question. Most would take it as being something everyone should know.

However the day that no one needs a question answered or some advice/guidance is the day you'll see closed signs on all sites/forums like Boards.

Stevegeraghty

Cass wrote: »

However the day that no one needs a question answered or some advice/guidance is the day you'll see closed signs on all sites/forums like Boards.

Always one of the good ones Cass :D

tac foley

I know that none of you really want to know this, but in the UK the 'proficiency course' - or more correctly, the safety and handling course, with incremental tests of knowledge and safe handling - lasts for the entire six months probationary time for ANY noobie [except members of the Armed Forces] before anybody is permitted to even apply for a firearms license. For a field shooter, like this gentleman, he would be accompanied, or mentored, for between three and six months before applying for a license for any firearm apart from a shotgun.

TBH the OP's post horrified me.

Still, as I'm often reminded, autres pays, autres facons....

tac

One shot on kill

Stevegeraghty wrote: »

My Dad did a course when he got his shotty a few years back, when he got the .22 he spent 2 days with the guy who sold him the gun on the range being shown how to use it, he never found himself in a situation where he needed to unload it so he never thought to ask, also your man never said it to him.
Now he knows to ask somthing when he goes back up there.

Im not in a club, I have a little bit of land and my neighbours very kindly let me shoot over their land, I don't have many friends that shoot so I come here for advice, as do many others I'd say, I'm not sure I'd ask too many more questions if I'm made feel stupid for asking somthing others find second nature!!!


Maybe I'm just being paranoid

The truth about it is you should know how to unload it.

But the fact is you didn't but you still safely handled the situation and recognised you need advice. You knew asking the question people would think it was silly and you still asked.

For this I'd have to say well done because so many people are ignorent and stuck up to realise they need advice and that's exactly how accidents happen. So fair play for acting on it and putting your ego aside to learn and progress so you and your dad can have more fun which shooting is all about.

Don't believe everything people post here either. Some great lads and some great advice but you can be anyone on a keypad unfortunately.

civdef

OP, I'm going to sound harsh here but the you and your father shouldn't be carrying the firearm unsupervised. What's being described is extremely unsafe - very very basic safety stuff. To be honest, I'm struggling to see how ye couldn't figure out how to unload at the time - rimfire rifles aren't exactly a swiss watch. The only possible issue I can think of is the tight chamber mentioned earlier or maybe a broken extractor, but even at that surely a penknife or whatever would jump to mind?

As for carrying it home chambered instead of just firing off the round on site? Seriously - for your own sake - think twice about going out with this again until you work this stuff out. It's great you're trying to improve your knowledge by asking here, but it sounds like more practical one to one instruction is needed.

One shot on kill

Where are you based op. if you don't mind me asking that is.

Stevegeraghty

civdef wrote: »

OP, I'm going to sound harsh here but the you and your father shouldn't be carrying the firearm unsupervised. What's being described is extremely unsafe - very very basic safety stuff. To be honest, I'm struggling to see how ye couldn't figure out how to unload at the time - rimfire rifles aren't exactly a swiss watch. The only possible issue I can think of is the

As for carrying it home chambered instead of just firing off the round on site? Seriously - for your own sake - think twice about going out with this again until you work this stuff out. It's great you're trying to improve your knowledge by asking here, but it sounds like more practical one to one instruction is needed.

The round did not extract when When I cycled the bolt hence I asked on here!
TBH my first train of thought was a pen knife but I thought it better to discharge the weapon safely rather than fumble around with a blade

Oh,and my home is on site

Stevegeraghty

One shot on kill wrote: »

Where are you based op. if you don't mind me asking that is.

Near blessington

civdef

The round did not extract when When I cycled the bolt hence I asked on here!
TBH my first train of thought was a pen knife but I thought it better to discharge the weapon safely rather than fumble around with a blade

Oh,and my home is on site

Fair enough, at least you weren't travelling far anyway.

Some rifles - normally target orientated, have intentionally tighter than normal chambers (but it could also be a manufacturing defect in a standard rifle), which can make the unfired round too tight a fit for the extractor to overcome. This isn't great in a hunting rifle because you'll be unloading unfired rounds way more often out hunting than you would on a range. (What rifle is it by the way?)

I had this in a Ruger 10/22 with a Volquartsen barrel one time, which always needed a penknife to clear an unfired round. You'll also find some rounds are a looser fit than others, so try a few brands and you might find one that extracts ok.