Docking pups' tails

Wibbs

Like I said why are springers and others bred with such apparently weak tails? Surely a springer with a thick brush "wild" type tail would be a better working dog? If moving through undergrowth at speed injured foxes tales, they'd have evolved to have shorter tails.

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

See the part where I said "anything other than necessity". Happy to reply to you but I wont be replying to certain others who clearly have no clue.

Well I got my Doberman at 8 weeks old and he was docked wrong at 5 weeks nearly died cause of it and the little stump he had was nearly been removed due to infection and vet said it could still die thankfully he got the right treatment and it worked. If the breeders did it at the right time he would have been fine and it would have been healed before he had the ability to chew it from the annoyance it caused him so for the sole reason breeders will dock them I just wish they would do it at the right time. By a vet too. I won't breed dogs so I won't ever be docking tails but iv had two Dobermans now and both had it done before my gettin them

JustRoss23

springer spaniels are docked because the springer tail is fairly fine boned and can break very easily when working in the brush; it is far kinder to dock a tail of a pup a few days old that to have to amputate a tail of an older dog.

**Vai**

@Synester Shadow; Thats not necessary though, thats purely for looks. Personally I would never want any dog to be docked. With an exception for hunting dogs and for medical reasons. Dogs like dobermans and rotties who are just pets should be allowed to keep their tail.

Magenta

JustRoss23 wrote: »

well the same could be said for a dog stuck in brush hence why i have the docked the future springer pups.

Statistically, how many dogs injure their tail so badly that amputating them is justifed as a preventative measure?

Women can get breast cancer, should we all have our breasts removed to prevent it?
Should we start routinely removing the appendix too in case we get appendicitis?

Face it, hunters are stuck in the past and dock tails "cos that's what we do". It's nothing to do with the dog becoming injured. How come the dogs are bred to have unneccessarily long, floppy ears? Such ears are not natural and are far more likely to harbour infection than the natural pricked ears that German Shepherds and Corgis have.
Also, if a hunting dog is so likely to get caught in undergrowth or shrub, why do so many hunting breeds like Setters, Golden Retrievers, Cockers, Springers, bred to have feathery coats that will get caught up so much easier than a shorter coat?

JustRoss23 wrote: »

springer spaniels are docked because the springer tail is fairly fine boned and can break very easily when working in the brush; it is far kinder to dock a tail of a pup a few days old that to have to amputate a tail of an older dog.

So is a Setter's tail, why aren't they docked?

JustRoss23

Statistically i don't no i am just going by experience as i have stated all along. and hunters are not stuck in the past i love my dogs and would do anything for them:D...
Dont no about setters i am talking about my own personal experience with springers;) and i have given many reasons why they should get there tail docked

**Vai**

My father had a pack of springers, proper hunting dogs and none of them had docked tails. None of them got any injuries in the field either funnily enough. I dont mind hunting dogs having docked tails because there must be something in it but its certainly not as necessary as some people would have you believe.

JustRoss23

yea thats true i guess each to there own i suppose at the end of the day our debate wont stop tail docking.

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

@Synester Shadow; Thats not necessary though, thats purely for looks. Personally I would never want any dog to be docked. With an exception for hunting dogs and for medical reasons. Dogs like dobermans and rotties who are just pets should be allowed to keep their tail.

As I said I didn't dock them and I wouldn't either hence why I'll never breed them but all of them in both breeds will be done by breeder before you get them at 8 weeks so I'm sayin it needs doing at the right age and by a vet. I can't control breeders but I love Dobermans and they all come docked

**Vai**

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

As I said I didn't dock them and I wouldn't either hence why I'll never breed them but all of them in both breeds will be done by breeder before you get them at 8 weeks so I'm sayin it needs doing at the right age and by a vet. I can't control breeders but I love Dobermans and they all come docked

No, they dont all come docked. They are born with a tail. Its done by breeders who believe this is the look people want. If you and others who insist on buying these dogs would say something, the breeders would have no need to dock them and the dogs wouldnt struggle to communiciate.

JustRoss23

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boxer_(dog).jpg

Feel sorry for them too dogs.

**Vai**

JustRoss23 wrote: »

yea thats true i guess each to there own i suppose at the end of the day our debate wont stop tail docking.

No but giving people the correct info, as other posters on this thread have, might at least stop the ignorance and make some people think about what they are doing.

JustRoss23

well i will never change as long as its allowed the 3 day old springer pups will get the snip. but it might help others see the correct advice

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

No, they dont all come docked. They are born with a tail. Its done by breeders who believe this is the look people want. If you and others who insist on buying these dogs would say something, the breeders would have no need to dock them and the dogs wouldnt struggle to communiciate.

Litters are normally not advertised until the tails are already done I never said there born docked but your living in a bubble if you think I or someone else can change the breeders of these dogs. The tails are done within the first week how do I stop that? I don't condone it but it happens and I love my dog and it was awful thinkin he wouldn't make it because of a breeder who had no clue of docking that's why I'm sayin should it be done do it right through a vet.

Magenta

JustRoss23 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boxer_(dog).jpg

Feel sorry for them too dogs.

You're quite happy to do it to your own dogs!

JustRoss23 wrote: »

well i will never change as long as its allowed the 3 day old springer pups will get the snip.

Yep... stuck in the past.

Magenta

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

Litters are normally not advertised until the tails are already done I never said there born docked but your living in a bubble if you think I or someone else can change the breeders of these dogs. The tails are done within the first week how do I stop that?

Refuse to buy a docked puppy. Breeders will soon change their ways once they realise docked puppies don't sell.

JustRoss23

i have given reasons why i have done it to my dogs:D

No not stuck in the past you have your opinon i have mine:D

Synyster Shadow

Magenta wrote: »

Refuse to buy a docked puppy. Breeders will soon change their ways once they realise docked puppies don't sell.

I didn't buy him I was asked by a breeder to take him as they couldn't home them all and I felt sorry for him and took him there and then and went straight to a vet. I can't change people who breed dogs but I won't be sorry for saving that pup and giving him a life.

ISDW

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

I didn't buy him I was asked by a breeder to take him as they couldn't home them all and I felt sorry for him and took him there and then and went straight to a vet. I can't change people who breed dogs but I won't be sorry for saving that pup and giving him a life.

Do you think that the fact they couldn't sell them all may have had anything to do with the docked tail?

**Vai**

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

Litters are normally not advertised until the tails are already done I never said there born docked but your living in a bubble if you think I or someone else can change the breeders of these dogs. The tails are done within the first week how do I stop that? I don't condone it but it happens and I love my dog and it was awful thinkin he wouldn't make it because of a breeder who had no clue of docking that's why I'm sayin should it be done do it right through a vet.

Im living in a bubble? You're the one who thinks breeders are some kind of immovable objects. They do it because thats what their customers want, yourself included. If that wasnt the case, they wouldnt bother.

You're right in that a vet is the only person who should be allowed to do it but why do it at all if theres no need?

JustRoss23

ISDW wrote: »

Do you think that the fact they couldn't sell them all may have had anything to do with the docked tail?

Not really as i was told in an earlier thread i wrote its hard to sell pups these days.the recession and all i would say that's the main reason.op has said bad breeder not a good combination

Wibbs

Magenta wrote: »

How come the dogs are bred to have unneccessarily long, floppy ears? Such ears are not natural and are far more likely to harbour infection than the natural pricked ears that German Shepherds and Corgis have.

Good question. If you were designing a dog for moving through undergrowth those breeds would not be the result.

Magenta wrote: »

Yep... stuck in the past.

+1. It's all I know therefore it must be right syndrome. That covers a long list of damned stupid practices humans have gotten up to throughout our history.

**Vai**

ISDW wrote: »

Do you think that the fact they couldn't sell them all may have had anything to do with the docked tail?

Absolutely, its the eqivalent of taking a sickly looking bichon from the puppy farmer and then wanting praise for buying it.

Synyster Shadow

ISDW wrote: »

Do you think that the fact they couldn't sell them all may have had anything to do with the docked tail?

It was because they were bad breeders with no knowledge of breeding and the pups were in bad condition.

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

Im living in a bubble? You're the one who thinks breeders are some kind of immovable objects. They do it because thats what their customers want, yourself included. If that wasnt the case, they wouldnt bother.

You're right in that a vet is the only person who should be allowed to do it but why do it at all if theres no need?

I DID NOT BUY HIM I RESCUED HIM!!!!!! So how am I a customer? I said already I would never do it and because of this I would never breed them. I don't control other people but feel free to take them on yourself I won't stop ya

ISDW

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

It was because they were bad breeders with no knowledge of breeding and the pups were in bad condition.

unfortunately that doesn't usually stop people buying pups, otherwise puppy farmers wouldn't flourish

JustRoss23

i would imagine puppy farmers sell there pups a lot cheaper so that's how they get sales where as ops mates were probably looking for full whack:o

**Vai**

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

I DID NOT BUY HIM I RESCUED HIM!!!!!! So how am I a customer? I said already I would never do it and because of this I would never breed them. I don't control other people but feel free to take them on yourself I won't stop ya

Dont be childish. What about your other doberman? Was that a rescue too?

x Purple Pawprints x

I'd like to know who the vet is that's mentioned in the OP. I'm sure the VCI would be interested to know. Docking a tail at 8 weeks for purely cosmetic reasons is just ridiculous. If the procedure is necessary medically then do it, not because "they're meant to have short tails" or because "it doesn't look nice". If they were meant to have short tails they'd be born that way IMO. If people insist on tail docking then I really thing there should be some sort of anaesthetic involved no matter what age they're docked.

Synyster Shadow

ISDW wrote: »

unfortunately that doesn't usually stop people buying pups, otherwise puppy farmers wouldn't flourish

I don't condone these people at all and the fact that out of 11 pups in nashers litter that only 5 survived was what pushed me to take him he was so underweight and ill I couldn't leave him. I know another one of the survivor pups got shot by a farmer too. I hate puppy farms I can imagine how sick that amount of pups are when there not been looked after. I can't watch cruelty but I won't feel bad for helping one of those animals