Docking pups' tails

ISDW

JustRoss23 wrote: »

Not really as i was told in an earlier thread i wrote its hard to sell pups these days.the recession and all i would say that's the main reason.op has said bad breeder not a good combination

JustRoss23 wrote: »

i would imagine puppy farmers sell there pups a lot cheaper so that's how they get sales where as ops mates were probably looking for full whack:o

You're making a lot of assumptions. Do you know when he got the pup? It may not have been 'these days'. And surely giving the pup away with no money changing hands is not 'full whack'?

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

Dont be childish. What about your other doberman? Was that a rescue too?

Yes it was from someone not far from where I live and they had it advertised in the ISPCA no money involved just a home needed

**Vai**

In that case I apologise for lumping you in with the rest in my previous post. Never bought a dog myself but Ive no issue with people buying them from proper sources, ie people who dont dock tails.

And I dont think ISDW is trying to make you feel bad for helping animals, just to make you see the bigger picture.

ISDW

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

I don't condone these people at all and the fact that out of 11 pups in nashers litter that only 5 survived was what pushed me to take him he was so underweight and ill I couldn't leave him. I know another one of the survivor pups got shot by a farmer too. I hate puppy farms I can imagine how sick that amount of pups are when there not been looked after. I can't watch cruelty but I won't feel bad for helping one of those animals

Sorry, that wasn't my point. i genuinely asked, as you had seen the pups, if you thought the docked tails was the reason they couldn't sell them, as they were only 8 weeks old. And unfortunately a lot of people buy pups from puppy farmers in very bad condition, so I was wondering what was different about this litter, which again, led me back to the possibility of it being the tails - or lack of.

Synyster Shadow

**Vai** wrote: »

In that case I apologise for lumping you in with the rest in my previous post. Never bought a dog myself but Ive no issue with people buying them from proper sources, ie people who dont dock tails.

And I dont think ISDW is trying to make you feel bad for helping animals, just to make you see the bigger picture.

Well thank you. As for the bigger picture I'm all too aware of it and sensitive to what happens to animals because of puppy farmers and so on. I'm thankful 2 and half years on I can see what I did for one pup that never asked to be born but was and was ill

Magenta

JustRoss23 wrote: »

i have given reasons why i have done it to my dogs:D

No not stuck in the past you have your opinon i have mine:D

You haven't answered my other questions about why these dogs are bred to have feathery coats and long floppy ears.
All you do is the keyboard equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and singing "La la la, you have your opinion I have mine", and then banging on that stupid green smiley at the end.

dharma200

hopefully the practise of docking tails will die a death very soon.... no dog looks beter with tail docked other than those whos tail cant be saved.. I wouldnt take a dog from a litter with its tail docked. The bigger picture is if these puppies are taken by people the idiot breeders just keep going on and on... I cant imagine any reason (other than that of fighting) why any dogs tail would be docked. Pointless horrific practise...

tk123

JustRoss23 wrote: »

springer spaniels are docked because the springer tail is fairly fine boned and can break very easily when working in the brush; it is far kinder to dock a tail of a pup a few days old that to have to amputate a tail of an older dog.

Does the docking affect how they swim - my retriever's tail is like rudder when he swims?

JustRoss23

I use my springer is brush work i.e for pheasant shooting . we use a lab x retriever when duck/goose shooting and your right the tail acts as quite the rudder:D

JustRoss23

Magenta wrote: »

You haven't answered my other questions about why these dogs are bred to have feathery coats and long floppy ears.
All you do is the keyboard equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and singing "La la la, you have your opinion I have mine", and then banging on that stupid green smiley at the end.

That's of no relevance to this thread the title is about the docking of a tail not about floppy ears/feathery coats sorry for the green smiley;)

ISDW

JustRoss23 wrote: »

That's of no relevance to this thread the title is about the docking of a tail not about floppy ears/feathery coats sorry for the green smiley;)

Of course it has relevance if the argument in favour of docking tails is purely to stop the dog getting injured going into cover. Why don't the ears get damaged? :eek:

maggiepip

Yeah a docked tail would definitely have an effect on swimming and the dogs tail is also used for balance during activity.

Also a docked tail can cause life long pain in dogs - one of the reasons being the formation of neuromas - which is a mass of swollen tangled nerves - and a nerve pain is a horrible horrible pain. I read somewhere before that some study was done on Rottweilers (I think)who had been put to sleep due to aggression issues - post mortems were preformed and something like 95% of the "aggressive" Rottweilers actually had docked tail neuromas and would have been in considerable long term pain - hence the aggression. There no need for docking its simply cruel.

Dunny

I'm not following the conversation but I'm against it. Awful thing to do to a dog nevermind a pup like.

ISDW

JustRoss23 wrote: »

its not relevannt as none of my springers or any i met have had ear/ coat problems but they have had tail probs:(:( and the reason is because springer spaniels are docked because the springer tail is fairly fine boned and can break very easily when working in the brush; it is far kinder to dock a tail of a pup a few days old that to have to amputate a tail of an older dog thats been stated already i don't no what more to say i suppose if you want more information ask the vet:D:D

none of the springers I have met with tails have had tail problems, that tit for tat logic is not actually a valid argument.

So the tail does have a bone in it, great to see that people are learning things from this thread.:D

So,what will you do if the law does get changed, and it becomes totally illegal in Ireland? Will you carry on doing it? Does the fact that vets are not allowed to do it in Ireland except under extenuating circumstances not give you pause?

JustRoss23

I no its such a wonderful thread to follow and learning sooo much:D well ISDW that day hasn't come yet so no need to worry about that.but i imagine IF it does(which i cant see it happening) i would follow the rules of course.

Simply put, its illegal, especially at 8 weeks as the OP asked about. I'm not sure what the official Kennel Club position is but I believe there are still people there who believe it should be done for the appearance. Don't buy a pup that has been tail docked.

Occasionally adult dogs injure themselves and part of the tail needs to be amputated. This is more typical in large breeds who are housed in kennels that aere too small. In these situations they'll constantly wag their tail and bash it off the wall injuring the tip which won't heal.

ISDW

Deleted User wrote: »

Simply put, its illegal, especially at 8 weeks as the OP asked about. I'm not sure what the official Kennel Club position is but I believe there are still people there who believe it should be done for the appearance. Don't buy a pup that has been tail docked.

Occasionally adult dogs injure themselves and part of the tail needs to be amputated. This is more typical in large breeds who are housed in kennels that aere too small. In these situations they'll constantly wag their tail and bash it off the wall injuring the tip which won't heal.

It isn't illegal in dogs under 4 weeks of age.

JustRoss23

Deleted User wrote: »

simply put, its illegal, especially at 8 weeks as the OP asked about. I'm not sure what the official Kennel Club position is but I believe there are still people there who believe it should be done for the appearance. Don't buy a pup that has been tail docked.

Occasionally adult dogs injure themselves and part of the tail needs to be amputated. This is more typical in large breeds who are housed in kennels that aere too small. In these situations they'll constantly wag their tail and bash it off the wall injuring the tip which won't heal.

Wrong

ISDW

JustRoss23 wrote: »

I no its such a wonderful thread to follow and learning sooo much:D well ISDW that day hasn't come yet so no need to worry about that.but i imagine IF it does(which i cant see it happening) i would follow the rules of course.

You may not be able to see it happening, but it would appear others don't share that point of view, as it forms part of the animal welfare legislation currently going through the system

JustRoss23

Oh that's great news:D

x Purple Pawprints x

The practice of tail docking isn't actually illegal. But the VCI have deemed cosmetic tail docking to be unethical and if any practictioner peforms it they could be open to disciplinary action.

barone

i find tail docking a lot less damaging to a dog then say ... interbreeding between father/daughter , grandfather/grand daughter etc etc,

and the whole sacrifice the dogs health for show crowd.


seeing dogs barley able to walk,or see,breathe, have known genetic defects which will kill them bred for show sickens me.

gimme a healthy jrt with docked tail any day of the week.

Rommie

barone wrote: »

i find tail docking a lot less damaging to a dog then say ... interbreeding between father/daughter , grandfather/grand daughter etc etc,

and the whole sacrifice the dogs health for show crowd.


seeing dogs barley able to walk,or see,breathe, have known genetic defects which will kill them bred for show sickens me.

gimme a healthy jrt with docked tail any day of the week.

I don't think anyone is saying they prefer inbred, genetic disasters to docked dogs. I would prefer to see neither, and I especially despised the amount of cropped ears/docked tails on the Westminster so-called best of breeds

Knine

barone wrote: »

i find tail docking a lot less damaging to a dog then say ... interbreeding between father/daughter , grandfather/grand daughter etc etc,

and the whole sacrifice the dogs health for show crowd.


seeing dogs barley able to walk,or see,breathe, have known genetic defects which will kill them bred for show sickens me.

gimme a healthy jrt with docked tail any day of the week.

Ah give it a rest. Reputable show people health test their dogs and put careful thought into their breeding often travelling a great distance to use the most suitable stud dogs. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Healthy Jack Russell? I have numerous PB dogs. The only one with health & behaviour issues is the Jacker. I had a collie cross die of heart failure aged 2 years.

Nobody documents health issues for mongrels.

barone

Knine wrote: »

Ah give it a rest. Reputable show people health test their dogs and put careful thought into their breeding often travelling a great distance to use the most suitable stud dogs. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Healthy Jack Russell? I have numerous PB dogs. The only one with health & behaviour issues is the Jacker. I had a collie cross die of heart failure aged 2 years.

Nobody documents health issues for mongrels.

you fckin snobbish twat... worth a ban.

Hellrazer

barone wrote: »

you fckin snobbish twat... worth a ban.

Have it your way.

2 week ban issued.

Bizzum

tk123 wrote: »

Does the docking affect how they swim - my retriever's tail is like rudder when he swims?

maggiepip wrote: »

Yeah a docked tail would definitely have an effect on swimming and the dogs tail is also used for balance during activity.

I've shot over a lot of different dog breeds. I've never noticed the lack of a tail (or to be precise,the lack of two thirds of a tail) affecting the swim.

The best dog I've seen in water in recent years was an ESS docked.

I always wondered though, why dock for example a german pointer but not an english pointer.

x Purple Pawprints x

Bizzum wrote: »

I've shot over a lot of different dog breeds. I've never noticed the lack of a tail (or to be precise,the lack of two thirds of a tail) affecting the swim.

The best dog I've seen in water in recent years was an ESS docked.

I always wondered though, why dock for example a german pointer but not an english pointer.

I've actually always wondered this too. I have a 7 year old german pointer, he's docked but they look so much nicer with a long tail. He is used for hunting by my dad. We had an English Pointer x Springer that had a long tail though so I don't know the reason. We have an English Pointer that we rescued last year and he's undocked.

Synyster Shadow

Iv never went down the show dog road but wondered if docked tails are sought after for certain breeds?

I only ask for curiosity I'm not lookin to do anything

x Purple Pawprints x

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

Iv never went down the show dog road but wondered if docked tails are sought after for certain breeds?

I only ask for curiosity I'm not lookin to do anything

Docked tails are breed standard for some as far as I know.