Working hours for Nurses.

Paulzx

grid_locked wrote: »

thats right , very few are idealogicaly driven or see it as a vocation

thats why the banal eulogising is so tedious , same with guards

Who gives a damn whether they are "idealogically driven" (whatever it means) once they do their jobs properly.

Does an accountant need to be "idealogically driven" to be good at his job?.......or is he just another worker in it for the wage?

Barracuda1

The job of a nurse is not ordinary. A nurse has to face anything every start of shift. I for one could not face some of the suitations they do. I am all for keeping expense down but they deserve every penny they get.

woodoo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

Aren't middle management a major problem in themselves. Too many of them.

murphaph

Barracuda1 wrote: »

The job of a nurse is not ordinary. A nurse has to face anything every start of shift. I for one could not face some of the suitations they do. I am all for keeping expense down but they deserve every penny they get.

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

I dont get it? Why the intense negativity?

Stereomaniac

I think someone is very frustrated with some of the hardest working people in the country. Yikes.

sparky32

Xenophile, why do you have a very negative towards nurses? Have you ever been in hospital?Have you actually noted the amount of work done by nurses? It's the nurses who work hardest out of all the different professions on the wards. We deserve to be paid a lot more than we do get and we have taken cuts just like other professions. As someone else said in this thread we don't necessarily work a set 37.5 hrs each week, it very often happens that we may have to go in earlier or stay on later. I'm unsure as to why you are so angry...?? :cool:

ballyharpat

sparky32 wrote: »

Xenophile, why do you have a very negative towards nurses? Have you ever been in hospital?Have you actually noted the amount of work done by nurses? It's the nurses who work hardest out of all the different professions on the wards. We deserve to be paid a lot more than we do get and we have taken cuts just like other professions. As someone else said in this thread we don't necessarily work a set 37.5 hrs each week, it very often happens that we may have to go in earlier or stay on later. I'm unsure as to why you are so angry...?? :cool: [/B]

haha, wow sprky, chill out, no need for the bold. Did you make a decision to become a nurse? and you knew what it entailed? Handover is paid for in most public and private facilities. What about Health Care Assistants? They are not well paid in most cases in the private sector, but they deal with a lot more of the difficult situations, in general, than the nurses do.......

Paarthurnax

ballyharpat wrote: »

haha, wow sprky, chill out, no need for the bold. Did you make a decision to become a nurse? and you knew what it entailed? Handover is paid for in most public and private facilities. What about Health Care Assistants? They are not well paid in most cases in the private sector, but they deal with a lot more of the difficult situations, in general, than the nurses do.......

I work in the private sector and have worked in the public sector - handover isn't or wasn't paid for in either.

Agreed that HCAs are not well paid in the private sector and do work hard, but the buck doesn't stop with them. Dealing with more different situations in general depends on your perspective.

As for this notion that you knew what you were getting into when you choose to become a nurse - that's fine if you have adequate resources, staffing levels and not putting yourself at risk on a daily basis.

Paarthurnax

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

Are you suggesting then that Nurses are highly overpaid or that they don't work hard enough for there money. Compared to what?? A slaughter house worker?

Paarthurnax wrote: »

I work as a Mental Health Nurse in the private sector €17.00 per hour.
My equivalent pay working for the HSE would be €16.00 per hour (Increment 4 on the pay scale. Now €15.38 per hour with the new 39 hour week.
My equivalent pay working for the NHS in UK would be around €14.00 per hour ( Band 5 Increment 4)
.

ballyharpat

Paarthurnax wrote: »

I work in the private sector and have worked in the public sector - handover isn't or wasn't paid for in either.

Agreed that HCAs are not well paid in the private sector and do work hard, but the buck doesn't stop with them. Dealing with more different situations in general depends on your perspective.

As for this notion that you knew what you were getting into when you choose to become a nurse - that's fine if you have adequate resources, staffing levels and not putting yourself at risk on a daily basis.

I know of two private sector facilities that are paid for handover. I cannot say whether they are paid for in the public sector.

There are very few nurses putting themselves at 'risk' on a daily basis....

It's a job, like anything, some of us are cut out for that line of work, some are not. Some are cut out for sitting behind a desk all day, some are not....some are cut out for looking at computer screens, some are teachers.....the end of a day it's a job, I could not be a pre-school teacher, no matter how much they paid me, but that doesn't mean it should be paid a high wage....

Barracuda1

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

Its a bit different that facing into a road accident where there are multiple casualties and horrific injuries. The primary difference being human and animal.

creedp

Barracuda1 wrote: »

Its a bit different that facing into a road accident where there are multiple casualties and horrific injuries. The primary difference being human and animal.

We might have got the wrong end of the stick here .. maybe Murph is actually calling for the slashing of slaughterhouse workers wages because their job is less complex and they are only dealing with animals

murphaph

creedp wrote: »

I dont get it? Why the intense negativity?

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

Where has anybody said it is the hardest or worst job in the world? It also seems to me that it is people who are denouncing nurses that keep referring to the florence nightingale cliche. I think most would accept it is a responsible job requiring a high level of expertise and should attract a decent salary and working conditions. As for what is an appropriate rate .. I think it is telling that a private hospital recently ran a recruitment campaign offering 20% above the current HSE nursing rate (or 40% above the so called yellow pack rate). Now does this mean that this private hospital is offering the apropriate going rate for the job? Why would a private hospital offer a 20% premium on the HSE rate?

jimmycrackcorm

Paarthurnax wrote: »

Most nurses work 39 hours plus at the moment anyway, due to the nature of the working in a 24/7 field its not possible to just down tools or shutshe shop at the end of shift. Nurses either come in earlier, or go home later than rostered for handover. Nurses very often have to for go breaks due to unforeseen circumstances that occur, eg; emergencies, admissions, assaults, staff shortages, liaising with family members etc etc....

If any of the "bashers" posting on this thread would like to step up and do the job - feel free to change career and go back and do nursing.

Very true. My OH is a nurse and works at least an extra half hour every shift. As she says she can't very well just up and leave a very sick patient just because your shift is over. Whereas she used to absolutely love the job now she almost hates it. Her ward is down half their staff. She doesn't get breaks any more even to the point that lunch is a sandwich on the way home. She is due enough holidays to take off the next six weeks but can't take them even though she is entitled because the staff shortages are so bad.

I would give her a touch about nurses getting paid so much but I've seen her payslip as low as €1600 without weekend or nights. It is possible to earn really good money but she would have to work only nights and weekend combinations. Apart from the cuts she is basically doing what two nurses used to do so essentially productivity is up.

However whatever about the pay the most concerning aspect is the stories I'm hearing about the risks to patients because for example there may only one nurse to dispense the drugs leading to human error and a patient getting the wrong drug,

Nurses are held in high regard because people who nee them realize the value in their work in excess off what they do get in their pay packet art the end of the day.

Paarthurnax

creedp wrote: »

Where has anybody said it is the hardest or worst job in the world? It also seems to me that it is people who are denouncing nurses that keep referring to the florence nightingale cliche. I think most would accept it is a responsible job requiring a high level of expertise and should attract a decent salary and working conditions. As for what is an appropriate rate .. I think it is telling that a private hospital recently ran a recruitment campaign offering 20% above the current HSE nursing rate (or 40% above the so called yellow pack rate). Now does this mean that this private hospital is offering the apropriate going rate for the job? Why would a private hospital offer a 20% premium on the HSE rate?

I agree with you completely, some people a very bitter towards nurses, maybe it stems from misogyny or some other unfulfilled need. Not all nurses are "Florence Nightingale" types or are "Gin Swilling Whores" who frequent coppers. Theses sort of stereotypes do nothing for a discussion on the Irish Economy.

Getting back on track to the topic in question which really amounts to whether or not nurses working in the public sector are worth the money for the work they do. Some people think they are overpaid, compared to what as I've previously stated! Nurses are professional so why shouldn't they be treated like other professionals.

nice_guy80

Lets all agree that Doctors are way overpaid in the health system, and can double job earning money off private patients

Nurses do most of the work in hospitals.

tinner777

murphaph wrote: »

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

Ok i'll bite...

The op opened with what he thought my hours should be, why??? What effect do you think my contracted hours going up to 39 hours will have? How will it effect you? How about if you agree to work for a few more hours a week for nothing I will?? Also I suppose, given you lot are so well informed, you know that the great Liam got this agreed but it had to be cost neutral. So no cover was provided, no jobs made from this, was left to local management to implement and guess what not every one got it. No one working in my service got it as unions and management couldn't agree a fair way of implementation. Guess what, this time is not back dated, so for the last 3 years we have been working extra for nothing.

It's just a job.. Every time I goto work I take responsibility for 23 patients and 4 staff nurses. I ensure that we all get through the day in a safe manner. I strive to get my patients the best possible care and needs met. I don't have to do this, I could just give out meds and ignore the patients for 12 hours and still get paid without any backlash. But, I don't as I'm a nurse and i give a ****. I have worked with people in distress for the last 15 years and have maintained the same attitude throughout from my first ward as a student to a cnm2 now. Now I don't claim to be the new messiah, I'm working in the caring profession because I care. Don't get me wrong I often look at some nurse and think why are you here.. But they don't last long especially in the front line. You realize new students now have to train for four years, and given there isn't a job for them at the end, they continue to apply.

Facing danger, everyday I goto work I'm in a chance of a slap or worse, be it a little old lady I'm trying to feed or some big geezer from the cells, every day. You forget its not only violence and aggression, someone jumps the wall and into the river, who's going to court? All medical emergencies are scary as hell, you never get used to it.

Too many nurses.. Really my place is constantly short staffed, refusal of management to employ students but continue to pay senior staff overtime. You seem to think nurses have no place at outpatient clinics??? Really, whilst they are checking your blood pressure etc To see if your ok, plus asking questions to check everything is ok, how many patients clam up in front of consultants? Consultant says this needs to be done etc.. Who does this?? Junior drs?? really?? Nurses in middle management?? Who are middle management?? The structure is as follows,
Director of nursing (1)
Acting director of nursing (4)
cnm3 (1)
cnm2 (8)

Really too many nurses?? It's a misconception, the cnm3 and all the cnm2's are included in the units staff numbers. Involved in patient care all day.

Cleaning the ward - so that's what 4 years in college talks the students these days, really?? So I could keep up my Florence act if I had a mop in my hand

Health care assistants - we don't have them at the moment but i'll welcome them when they come. You really think that any qualified nurse will let lead them is laughable

The other thread about sickness, any nurse goes out sick be it a day or a month are seen by their boss when they come back. I am totally entitled to know why they where sick so I can redirect them if appropriate. Guess what, you phone in sick with a tummy bug or sickness you'r now required to stay away from work for 48 hours from your last episode of sickness/diarrhea, so no more phone calls after a session as it means a sick note.

The next time you're in hospital I hope you're looked after by a proper nurse, not just someone doing a job.

Finally unless you're holding that cows hoof while you kill it, or explaining to the bull and others cows why Daisy passed, lay off with the slaughter house comparison.

FTA69

Spot on tinner.

Nurses have to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, bereavement, violence, unpaid work, no breaks, dementia, mental illness etc. My own partner got knocked clean out while feeding a man with late-stage Alzheimers after he punched her in the jaw.

Like it or not nursing isn't "a job like any other."

nokia69

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Very true. My OH is a nurse and works at least an extra half hour every shift. As she says she can't very well just up and leave a very sick patient just because your shift is over. Whereas she used to absolutely love the job now she almost hates it. Her ward is down half their staff. She doesn't get breaks any more even to the point that lunch is a sandwich on the way home. She is due enough holidays to take off the next six weeks but can't take them even though she is entitled because the staff shortages are so bad.

the pay bill has to be cut, so the choice is a paycut for everyone, or a cut in the number of people on the payroll

the nurses and all the other public sector workers don't want pay cuts so its a cut in staff

I wonder how long before they see that paycuts would have been far better for everyone

nokia69

FTA69 wrote: »

Spot on tinner.

Nurses have to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, bereavement, violence, unpaid work, no breaks, dementia, mental illness etc. My own partner got knocked clean out while feeding a man with late-stage Alzheimers after he punched her in the jaw.

Like it or not nursing isn't "a job like any other."

did they not know most of this before they started the job

its like a fireman complaining that his boss wants him go up a ladder and put out a fire

tinner777

nokia69 wrote: »

the pay bill has to be cut, so the choice is a paycut for everyone, or a cut in the number of people on the payroll

the nurses and all the other public sector workers don't want pay cuts so its a cut in staff

I wonder how long before they see that paycuts would have been far better for everyone

pay and numbers have been cut, its been done to death in this forum

tinner777

nokia69 wrote: »

did they not know most of this before they started the job

its like a fireman complaining that his boss wants him go up a ladder and put out a fire

so as a nurse I should take getting slapped and punched as part of my job? Really

Paarthurnax

nokia69 wrote: »

did they not know most of this before they started the job

its like a fireman complaining that his boss wants him go up a ladder and put out a fire

People dish up this nonsense time after time "Oh you knew what you were getting into when you signed up for this Job/Career" Its a bit of a cliched response at this stage!
None of us mind the danger and risk if we have adequate resources. When staffing levels are stretched we are put in unnessessary danger and thats not something we signed up for.
Have you ever worked in a Psychiatric unit, A & E or with Emergency Services?
Its actually like a Fireman going up a ladder to put out a fire with no hose!

Head The Wall

Paarthurnax wrote: »

People dish up this nonsense time after time "Oh you knew what you were getting into when you signed up for this Job/Career" Its a bit of a cliched response at this stage!
None of us mind the danger and risk if we have adequate resources. When staffing levels are stretched we are put in unnessessary danger and thats not something we signed up for.
Have you ever worked in a Psychiatric unit, A & E or with Emergency Services?
Its actually like a Fireman going a ladder to put out a fire with no hose!

Have you ever worked in farming or forestry?

Paarthurnax

Head The Wall wrote: »

Have you ever worked in farming or forestry?

Yes would you believe! Its great to see that land prices are on the rise. I'm glad to say I was never assaulted while farming or maintaining trees!

What point are you making? Feel free to comment on my post if needed!

Head The Wall

There are a lot more dangerous jobs than the ones you mentioned, farming and forestry are top of the list. I'm just wondering why you think frontline workers are special, that's all.

Every time I go for a drive or decide to cross the road I put myself in more danger than most jobs.

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

Have you ever worked in farming or forestry?

The large farming income and grants and education grants for children, added to the large land banks and most up to date equipment would lead me to believe that it's a high risk for very high reward.

I don't know any poor farmers, do you?