Does the public care about the lives of doctors?

Gumbo

mhge wrote: »

I had a hospital doc tell me that health checks are unnecessary as they only cause stress (in the context of breast self-examination, breast cancer etc). He also made a comment based on my nationality.
Left me scratching my head for days.

Did you report them or simply wait for a thread on boards.ie to complain about it?

I'm sure Dr. Nick would recommend you also report them as this doctor brings the rest of them down.

grid_locked

robp wrote: »

Many many very affluent countries pay a lot less than Ireland. Cuts implemented since this graph was made does not change that.



That is not an average though, so it is meaningless. Averages range hugely, from about 422k to 120k Euro.

table says nurses in the uk earn more than in ireland , that is certainly false

strandroad

kceire wrote: »

Did you report them or simply wait for a thread on boards.ie to complain about it?

I'm sure Dr. Nick would recommend you also report them as this doctor brings the rest of them down.

Unfortunately no I didn't, I am lucky to be very healthy and have fairly limited experience with doctors beyond dentists and GP gyn checks (it was my first visit in a hospital actually) so it took me a while to ask around how unacceptable it really was and I let it slide. Next time something like this happens I will report it for sure, lesson learnt.

Carawaystick

Dr Nic wrote: »

I am not talking about GPs or consultants. Just a normal hospital doctor or non consultant surgeon working in the hse.

You may assume that working for 90 hours would be well paid, but the HSE tippex out hours on your timesheet and consultants dont sign off on overtime hours. You never get paid for it.
And what good is getting paid for 90 hours? If you sleep 8 hours a day and work 90 hours a week that leaves <20 hours in the week to yourself. When do you spend the money you are not getting paid?

You are accusing people of criminal behaviour here. Either report this behaviour to the authorithies or stop whinging about it.

Cookie_Monster

With the WTD now enforce why do junior doctors continue to work such crazy hours? They can stand behind the act and insist on a normal week surely?

Chris_5339762

They can insist but they won't get anywhere as there aren't enough staff (by a long shot) to fill the gap. Their care for patients mean they will never work to rule as it is so built into them that the patients come first. Basically, they will whinge and whinge (quite rightly) but unfortunately they will do nothing about it.

The WTD is completely ignored and they all know it. And with the exodus of junior doctors overseas it's only going to get worse.

dissed doc

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

With the WTD now enforce why do junior doctors continue to work such crazy hours? They can stand behind the act and insist on a normal week surely?

The HSE and DoH pays fines for not implementing it, to avoid having to implement it.

Stheno

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are accusing people of criminal behaviour here. Either report this behaviour to the authorithies or stop whinging about it.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

With the WTD now enforce why do junior doctors continue to work such crazy hours? They can stand behind the act and insist on a normal week surely?

Good article on the lives of several junior doctors here from the IT

the groutch

appreciate how hard they work? yes
sympathy? no

they know exactly what they're getting themselves into, and with the high rewards when they get to consultancy stage it's not unreasonable to expect them to "pay their dues".

dissed doc

the groutch wrote: »

appreciate how hard they work? yes
sympathy? no

they know exactly what they're getting themselves into, and with the high rewards when they get to consultancy stage it's not unreasonable to expect them to "pay their dues".

No they don't. It's all very far into the future, and then within 1-2 years of graduating the reality of being cheap labour, no training and future prospects of a consutlant post (10% of graduates) on €4.5k/month for what, 15 years of your life? With zero job satisfaction and 100hr weeks?

Cheque please!

Cookie_Monster

nobody should be taken advantage of like that, especially by the state.

sock puppet

Dr Nic wrote: »

No-one is aware of the working conditions.
The words '90 hour work week' do not convey the horrors accurately enough.

I am lucky in that i 'may' have an industry to fall back upon, that is if i ever get a job in it again. But 1000s of docs X have no other option. Our best and brightest young minds are tarred with a brush of being greedy, forced to work illegal hours that they are not paid for and the public hates them for it...
Its sad

Strike out doctors and you've just described quite a few jobs with that post!

Dr Nic

sock puppet wrote: »

Strike out doctors and you've just described quite a few jobs with that post!

No, sorry there is no job to compare.
Almost no job has to work 90 hours per week for a decade or more
And further than that, no job has to deal with an arrest.

Put those 2 together and there is no job as stressful

Try dealing with an arrest on your 30th straight hour at work, or a septic infant, or a 5yr old asthmatic whos going blue in front of you. This isnt make believe. It happens every week in every hospital in ireland.

No problem dealing with X on your 20th hour, but on your 30th? And there is no-one to call to relieve you

P_1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

nobody should be taken advantage of like that, especially by the state.

sock puppet wrote: »

Strike out doctors and you've just described quite a few jobs with that post!

Then why are we turning on ourselves in that case? Surely the best solution without advocating any kind of class war would be for us to unite and to focus our attentions on solving this exploitation.

And yes I'm well aware that I sound like a Marxist agitator with this post

Play To Kill

Dr Nic wrote: »

No, sorry there is no job to compare.
Almost no job has to work 90 hours per week for a decade or more
And further than that, no job has to deal with an arrest.

Put those 2 together and there is no job as stressful

Try dealing with an arrest on your 30th straight hour at work, or a septic infant, or a 5yr old asthmatic whos going blue in front of you. This isnt make believe. It happens every week in every hospital in ireland.

No problem dealing with X on your 20th hour, but on your 30th? And there is no-one to call to relieve you

If you are that unhappy with your job you should consider a different career in fairness. I wouldn't like to have someone with such a bad attitude to being a doctor working on me if my life depended on it. It is this type of whinging that gains doctors no sympathy with the public.

itzme

Dr Nic wrote: »

No, sorry there is no job to compare.
Almost no job has to work 90 hours per week for a decade or more
And further than that, no job has to deal with an arrest.

Put those 2 together and there is no job as stressful

Try dealing with an arrest on your 30th straight hour at work, or a septic infant, or a 5yr old asthmatic whos going blue in front of you. This isnt make believe. It happens every week in every hospital in ireland.

No problem dealing with X on your 20th hour, but on your 30th? And there is no-one to call to relieve you

Dr Nic, I hope you don't take the extreme negatives that some posters in this thread are responding with as the consensus on this forum. Personally, I find these sorts of threads very difficult, it would just take too much time to respond to even some of the insulting and inhumane comments that have been directed to you. So I'll leave it at a one post response.

You and your colleagues have my sympathy. You have it because no employees should have their employment rights broken as regularly and seriously as happens in your profession. The majority of people I would consider friends would hold the same views.
Views on your pay, future pay and or future position have nothing to do with the breaches of employment rights.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

dissed doc wrote: »

No they don't. It's all very far into the future, and then within 1-2 years of graduating the reality of being cheap labour, no training and future prospects of a consutlant post (10% of graduates) on €4.5k/month for what, 15 years of your life? With zero job satisfaction and 100hr weeks?

Cheque please!

Of course Doctors or prospective doctors knew they would be expected to work long hours, or at least any bit of research into the position would have told them this. The hours worked by NCHDs have always been excessive and in most cases doctors were happy with the extra overtime cash. However since the HSE have stopped paying overtime the hours issue worked by doctors is being highlighted more.

In my view the argument that "it was all very far into the future" doesn't really cut it. The typical career path for a lot of successful doctors was get into med school, graduate, work your ass off until you're about 35, get a consultant position and you're made. The dogs on the street knew this. To think that this would somehow have changed when you graduate is somewhat naive in my opinion.

Personally I think NCHDs are over worked and under appreciated, I know many of them. I do think they are more hard done by now than ever before since they are not paid for all overtime worked. Competition for training courses has increased dramatically thanks to the post graduate med schools coming online. Public opinion towards them is tainted by a GP that once double charged or a bad experience with a consultant. Many NCHDs on training courses will happily accept a consultant not signing off on overtime as getting a good reference from said consultant before moving onto the next 6 month placement is more important than the money lost in overtime. I do believe that eventual enforcement of the EU working time directive will give you a lot more job satisfaction.