Ireland vs France buildup (Madigan in for ROG, squad in OP)

ScissorPaperRock

thomond2006 wrote: »

If everyone is fit:
Healy, Best, Ross, McCarthy, Ryan, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Marshall, BOD, Gilroy, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy/DOC, Henderson, Reddan, Jackson, Earls

I like that team, but wouldn't mind seeing Henderson in for POM

danthefan

Quint2010 wrote: »

I'd have Henderson at 6.

Good shout, POM has been poor and Henderson is a good option.

Pudsy33

awec wrote: »

So what is everyone's 23 from that?

Hard to pick for me. Front row and half backs pick themselves.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Mc Carthy
5. Ryan
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton (Jackson if unfit)
11. Fitzgerald (McFadden if Jackson is starting)
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Gilroy
15. Kearney

16. Kilcoyne
17. Cronin
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Touhy
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson/Madigan
23. Fitzgerald/ McFadden

justsomebloke

Is it just me or is the IRFU releasing the extended team announcement at this time on a Sunday not just a bit weird. It is it purely a knee jerk reaction forced by yet another leak and if so will this be the end of leaks to the press

Zzippy

Rog out! Has Conor George physically exploded yet?

thomond2006

justsomebloke wrote: »

Is it just me or is the IRFU releasing the extended team announcement at this time on a Sunday not just a bit weird. It is it purely a knee jerk reaction forced by yet another leak and if so will this be the end of leaks to the press

They're back in camp tomorrow. Makes sense to announce it tonight.

P_1

Zzippy wrote: »

Rog out! Has Conor George physically exploded yet?

Can anybody in Cork please confirm the well being of a certain Mr Conor George? :pac:

awec

TBH, it's a shame that O'Gara's international career is going to end on such a low.

Benny Cake

tolosenc wrote: »

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, McCarthy, POM, SOB, Heaslip (capt);
Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Marshall, O'Driscoll, Gilroy, Kearney

Cronin, Court, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, Henderson, Reddan, Jackson, McFadden

Court isn't in the 32 man squad. Correct call IMO....

thomond2006

I still think we're going to lose this.

totallegend

justsomebloke wrote: »

Is it just me or is the IRFU releasing the extended team announcement at this time on a Sunday not just a bit weird. It is it purely a knee jerk reaction forced by yet another leak and if so will this be the end of leaks to the press

Timing is odd I suppose. But if they're training tomorrow, it would have been apparent who was in or out anyway.

Quint2010

justsomebloke wrote: »

Is it just me or is the IRFU releasing the extended team announcement at this time on a Sunday not just a bit weird. It is it purely a knee jerk reaction forced by yet another leak and if so will this be the end of leaks to the press

"Leak" is a positively disgusting word...

blackdog2

Irish Independent wrote:

"Declan Kidney has been sensationally dropped....

If only!!!

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

I still think we're going to lose this.

TBH, winning / losing isn't my major concern any more.

I want to see our younger players get experience.

If our young guys play well, get some valuable experience in the green jersey but we are beaten by France I won't be too annoyed.

Sometimes to progress you have to take a step back first, I think our fear of ever losing a match is part of the problem within the irish setup.

Grimebox

awec wrote: »

TBH, it's a shame that O'Gara's international career is going to end on such a low.

It's strange. I've been calling for this for the guts of a year and now I feel bad for him

Sinbad_NI

Delighted to see ROG out. He's been just poor this year (again) and in no way deserves to be picked.

Get more excited these days to the watch new faces trying out.

circos

Grimebox wrote: »

It's strange. I've been calling for this for the guts of a year and now I feel bad for him

Feel the same myself. Very odd feeling.

jimjamcos

I've been a big critic of O'Gara's during this Six Nations and while he didn't deserve to be in the squad, the way he's been pushed into retirement by Kidney is both disrespectful and disgraceful. He deserved better. Kidney should have rang ROG yesterday if he wasn't going to feature in squad and tell him so. This might have allowed ROG to announce his retirement this morning and save some face, protecting his great legacy. To be seen to go out on his own terms was the least he deserved, not a fallen hero. I hope the same mistake is not repeated with BOD.

He has handled this as badly as he handled stripping O'Driscall of captaincy.

Shelflife

Funny really, I've been wanting a change in the back up 10 position since the AI. I just didn't think persisting with rog at this stage of his career was the right choice.
Seemingly up to tues before the scot game rog was running the show, then he was pulled . Now he's dropped from the squad altogether. To go from no2 to no 4 in the space of two weeks is bizarre.

I actually feel sorry for rog to be treated like this . It's the correct decision but he has really been f€@ked over by kidney here.

Just shows that kidney has lost it.

Shelflife

Funny really, I've been wanting a change in the back up 10 position since the AI. I just didn't think persisting with rog at this stage of his career was the right choice.
Seemingly up to tues before the scot game rog was running the show, then he was pulled . Now he's dropped from the squad altogether. To go from no2 to no 4 in the space of two weeks is bizarre.

I actually feel sorry for rog to be treated like this . It's the correct decision but he has really been f€@ked over by kidney here.

Just shows that kidney has lost it.

thiarfearr

jimjamcos wrote: »

I've been a big critic of O'Gara's during this Six Nations and while he didn't deserve to be in the squad, the way he's been pushed into retirement by Kidney is both disrespectful and disgraceful. He deserved better. Kidney should have rang ROG yesterday if he wasn't going to feature in squad and tell him so. This might have allowed ROG to announce his retirement this morning and save some face, protecting his great legacy. To be seen to go out on his own terms was the least he deserved, not a fallen hero. I hope the same mistake is not repeated with BOD.

He has handled this as badly as he handled stripping O'Driscall of captaincy.

Shelflife wrote: »

Funny really, I've been wanting a change in the back up 10 position since the AI. I just didn't think persisting with rog at this stage of his career was the right choice.
Seemingly up to tues before the scot game rog was running the show, then he was pulled . Now he's dropped from the squad altogether. To go from no2 to no 4 in the space of two weeks is bizarre.

I actually feel sorry for rog to be treated like this . It's the correct decision but he has really been f€@ked over by kidney here.

Just shows that kidney has lost it.

After Rogs public world cup whinge about not starting he gets no sympathy. Shouldn't have been picked, and when he did play he tried stupid things to try and be the hero. Massive mé féiner

Lapin

Looks like its true

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/28520.php

budhabob

The lack of mention of ROG in the news release hints at an official announcement.

ray jay

Benny Cake wrote: »

Court isn't in the 32 man squad. Correct call IMO....

I didn't even notice that. I thought he did well enough against Scotland, but if Kidney's plan is to use the remaining matches to give game time to younger players, I can see why Court would be dropped.

awec wrote: »

TBH, it's a shame that O'Gara's international career is going to end on such a low.

Don't worry, according to a certain Independent writer he has a Lions tour to look forward to.

Swiwi

awec wrote: »

TBH, it's a shame that O'Gara's international career is going to end on such a low.

Totally agree.

It's a pity he didn't gracefully retire from international rugby once Sexton became the preferred flyhalf.

I hope BOD retires on his terms rather than gets dropped, but no doubt to go with his stellar record BOD will realise when his form no longer justifies his selection, and call it quits.

What goes up must come down, tis sad but the truth for all great players.

thomond2006

thiarfearr wrote: »

After Rogs public world cup whinge about not starting he gets no sympathy. Shouldn't have been picked, and when he did play he tried stupid things to try and be the hero. Massive mé féiner

Sadly your point cannot be ignored, I didn't appreciate a lot of the quotes in the media from him. I respected his self-belief but it was a bit unsavoury.

justsomebloke

Off topic but The other question is, will Penny be allowed drop him as being first choice OH for Munster

awec

ray jay wrote: »

Don't worry, according to a certain Independent writer he has a Lions tour to look forward to.

Oh I can't wait to read the indo article on this.

irishbucsfan

justsomebloke wrote: »

Off topic but The other question is, will Penny be allowed drop him as being first choice OH for Munster

There's little to suggest that it's ROG's international involvement that has kept him ahead of Keatley. He's picked ROG fairly consistently for Munster.

Hopefully it'll help him make the call himself though.

ironingbored

Anyone else think Sexton should not play again in this 6 nations. There is absolutely no point in rushing him back after a hamstring injury.

I'm happy that ROG is no longer considered but Kidney has handled the whole thing in a less than decorous manner.

I'd be happy with a Jackson/Madign or Madigan/Jackson.

No better test of mettle than against France.

irishbucsfan

ironingbored wrote: »

Anyone else think Sexton should not play again in this 6 nations.

I wouldn't like him to play if he's risking an injury. If he's fit though he definitely should.

P_1

ironingbored wrote: »

Anyone else think Sexton should not play again in this 6 nations. There is absolutely no point in rushing him back after a hamstring injury.

I'm happy that ROG is no longer considered but Kidney has handled the whole thing in a less than decorous manner.

I'd be happy with a Jackson/Madign or Madigan/Jackson.

No better test of mettle than against France.

Interesting point. No point risking a long term pain for a short term gain, usually it's meant to work the other way round.

Shelflife

thiarfearr wrote: »

After Rogs public world cup whinge about not starting he gets no sympathy. Shouldn't have been picked, and when he did play he tried stupid things to try and be the hero. Massive mé féiner

I'm not disagreeing with you thiarfearr, he did look after no 1. I just think it could have been handled better by kidney.

Kidneys treatment of kilcoyne is similar with the way he has been passed over when it seemed his chance had come and then court was pushed in ahead of him.

jimjamcos

thiarfearr wrote: »

After Rogs public world cup whinge about not starting he gets no sympathy. Shouldn't have been picked, and when he did play he tried stupid things to try and be the hero. Massive mé féiner

Ok so that's his negatives - one ill-judged interview and doing some stupid things in last 2 games when he clearly wasn't at the level to even be on pitch. He always had an arrogance about him (just have to look at the little spats he got in with opponents down the years) which is probably why he played on when it would have been wiser to retire but Kidney picked him and he's a proud guy.

Now the positives - His arrogance is also what made him the player he was...he was never afraid to try something, never hid from responsibility, handled pressure superbly and he ultimately delivered more than most for our country. He displayed an arrogance that he was better than opponents and was a constant menace in rivals faces when we were on top. I loved him for this and it's missing in the Irish team at present bar maybe Sexton and Healy. If you can't acknowledge what he did for us you've been living in a bubble the last 10 years!

Sexton displays similar character traits to O'Gara as does Madigan and if both go on to play with the confidence and arrogance that O'Gara showed for Ireland we'll be in a good place. All great out-half should have ta trace of the mé féiner mentality that comes with being the main man on a team. And that's what O'Gara was for a long long time.

jm08

awec wrote: »

TBH, it's a shame that O'Gara's international career is going to end on such a low.

Pretty much all international careers finish on a low.

Doug Howlett in the stands for the world cup, Johnny Wilkson after the world cup in what must have been his worst tournament performance ever and controversy about the balls, David Wallace with injury, Brian O'Driscoll's last captaincy was a 60-0 loss and possibly the worst Ireland 6Ns performance of his career, Anthony Foley went from captaining the side to not making the 23 as Simon Easterby was fit (he got a text message saying he wasn't needed).

danthefan

jimjamcos wrote: »

Ok so that's his negatives - one ill-judged interview

There was plenty more than one ill-judged interview.

There was his "I'm retiring" interview.
There was his "I have 120 caps and he only has 10, I'm way better" interview.
There was his "I was the incumbent and I'm playing great and I should be starting" interview.
There was his "above international standard" interview.

awec

jm08 wrote: »

Pretty much all international careers finish on a low.

Doug Howlett in the stands for the world cup, Johnny Wilkson after the world cup in what must have been his worst tournament performance ever and controversy about the balls, David Wallace with injury, Brian O'Driscoll's last captaincy was a 60-0 loss and possibly the worst Ireland 6Ns performance of his career, Anthony Foley went from captaining the side to not making the 23 as Simon Easterby was fit (he got a text message saying he wasn't needed).

What I meant was, ROG should have announced he was going to retire (ages ago) and then played his last game.

It would have been nicer for the fans and ROG to know before the game that this would be the last time he'd be seen in the green shirt and the fans could have given him the send off he deserved.

jimjamcos

awec wrote: »

Arrogance is grand if you have the ability and form back it up.

When you don't you just look foolish.

Exactly and he always had the ability to back it up until this tournament when he was shown to be way passed his best. Bad/sentimental management has tarnished the reputation of a great player who didn't know when to quit.

danthefan

jimjamcos wrote: »

Exactly and he always had the ability to back it up until this tournament when he was shown to be way passed his best. Bad/sentimental management has tarnished the reputation of a great player who didn't know when to quit.

Oh you have to be joking.

molloyjh

For as much as it is the right decision it's sad to see someone who has done so much for Irish rugby go out the way he has.

Best of luck in the future to him. I may have been calling for this for a while but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate everything he's done over the years. Surprised this hasn't been posted yet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pIursHmEZc

vienne86

jimjamcos wrote: »

Exactly and he always had the ability to back it up until this tournament when he was shown to be way passed his best. Bad/sentimental management has tarnished the reputation of a great player who didn't know when to quit.

Spot on.

shuffol

danthefan wrote: »

There was plenty more than one ill-judged interview.

There was his "I'm retiring" interview.
There was his "I have 120 caps and he only has 10, I'm way better" interview.
There was his "I was the incumbent and I'm playing great and I should be starting" interview.
There was his "above international standard" interview.

Werent the last 2 the same interview.

I dont think anybody is displaying any ill will towards O'Gara, just that they dont have a lot of sympathy for him which is fair enough, if you're not going to retire voluntarily then being dropped is the only other outcome, as for his last performance being a poor one, I wouldn't like to be the coach trying to drop O'Gara after he's played well.

jm08

awec wrote: »

What I meant was, ROG should have announced he was going to retire (ages ago) and then played his last game.

It would have been nicer for the fans and ROG to know before the game that this would be the last time he'd be seen in the green shirt and the fans could have given him the send off he deserved.

How do you retire from international rugby when you are employed by the IRFU and you have a 2 year contract? You are at the beck & call of your employer. The IRFU (for good reason in that there was no one else available*) stopped him from retiring after the world cup.

*Madigan was only beginning to emerge and Jackson was playing U20s then. Jackson was playing U20s rugby this time last year and Madigan was getting some gametime, but someone else was doing the kicking for him (apparently because Joe Schmidt didn't want to put too much pressure on him).

edit: And Sexton had to regain his kicking form.

danthefan

shuffol wrote: »

Werent the last 2 the same interview.

I dont think anybody is displaying any ill will towards O'Gara, just that they dont have a lot of sympathy for him which is fair enough, if you're not going to retire voluntarily then being dropped is the only other outcome, as for his last performance being a poor one, I wouldn't like to be the coach trying to drop O'Gara after he's played well.

Don't think so. The last one was this season, the second last one was when he didn't start in the 2012 6N.

totallegend

Shelflife wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for rog to be treated like this . It's the correct decision but he has really been f€@ked over by kidney here.

Just shows that kidney has lost it.

I think anyone other than Kidney would have dropped ROG a long time ago.

Kidney did his best to let ROG justify his place but his performances against England and Scotland made it very difficult for DK to keep faith with him.

And O'Gara's performances against Scarlets and Ospreys didn't smack of a man determined to win his jersey back. Hard to see what more Kidney could have done for him.

Madigan's form was the nail in the coffin.

shuffol

Do people expect O'Gara to retire from international rugby now?

TheGoldenAges

I can just picture the headline to Conor Georges article tomorrow


"Bottom-Feeders force touring Lion out of Ireland Squad"

shuffol

danthefan wrote: »

Don't think so. The last one was this season, the second last one was when he didn't start in the 2012 6N.

Thought the last one was before the 6N last year too.

PaulyBolger

i'm probably the only person here who'll say this, but i think jackson deserves another chance... but for me marshall is a DEFINITE in the centres. he was amazing against scotland, bar one or two errors (which i'll put down to nerves!)


watching dave kilcoyne v ospreys last night, he was the best player on that pitch - great work rate until he was taken off.
I'd like to see him play a big part in the french match.

awec

shuffol wrote: »

Do people expect O'Gara to retire from international rugby now?

His central contract is up this year, he won't get another one and has just been dropped from the squad completely.

He will be retired from international rugby, no matter his decision.