Vegan Philosophy?

simon0brien

I've recently become vegan.

I'm wondering if any other vegans could tell me how the conduct themselves towards meat eaters...

Do you say...

1. It's your choice. I've made mine and don't want to force It upon anybody.

2. I am a vegan for a reason. Here's why. If you agree join me. If not, this is okay.

3. The manipulation of defenceless animals is disgusting and as a non-vegan you are contributing to this?

Cheers :P

Zombienosh

It's best to keep your beliefs personal most of the time. Even if someone asks about it it's only so they can argue and try make you think you're wrong.
Maybe that's just what I've encountered but the only people you can talk about vegan life is other vegans. Most meat lovers I've encountered are unable for civilised discussion.

iainconlon12

3. I hardly say it anymore though because some meat-eaters are plain thick and can't have any sort of argument without constant interruptions and getting angry.

I think people are well able to make these decisions for themselves.
So I don't see any point trying to spread your pov. Making moral judgements isn't very fair, I hate when meateaters do that to me.
So I would go for the 1st option.

lookitsme

just tell them "that's the why"

Zombienosh

just moo like a cow and run away.

Killer_banana

Well if a meateater tries to tell you your choice is wrong it's pretty annoying isn't it? It feels the same for them if you do it. Even if you feel meat is morally wrong and cannot understand why people choose to do so telling them they are wrong isn't going to endear them to you or your cause in anyway.

I'm vegetarian, working my way towards veganism, and if people ask me why then I do explain my choices, if not then I don't bother explaining them.

rubadub

simon0brien wrote: »

3. The manipulation of defenceless animals is disgusting and as a non-vegan you are contributing to this?

If you are intentionally going to rile people up like this be prepared for questions back, unless you don't mind or can defend any hypocrisy.

Just googling "how vegan are you"

How Vegan are you in reality?
Do you play any organized sports like football, soccer, softball where the ball is made from animal hyde?

Do you have any leather handbags, wallets, cell phone cases,shoes, car seats?

Do you print photographs at home on vegan photo paper? (many varities contain gelatin)

Do you wear wool or silk?

Do you play a classical string instrument like a viola, violin, bass violin with a horsehair bow?

Do you listen to classical music where horsehair bows are used?

Do you have a garden at home and do you use manure to fertilize it?

Do you seek vegetables that are grown without hiring out polinization services to bee keepers? Most large farms do hire out to bee-keepers. These are the same bee keepers that produce honey. The polinization services augment their honey income.

Or, do you use commercial fertilizer where many brands contain bone meal or animal blood?

Do you eat store purchased vegetables that have been grown with either of the above fertilizers?

Do you use any skincare products that contain lanolin or collagen (both animal biproducts)

Do you buy furniture that contains shellac (made from an insect)

Do you have any hair brushes that are made from boars hair

Do you buy vegan glue and seek products that are made with a vegan glue

Do any of your household cleaners contain calcium phosphate?

Do you own any natural sponges or loofah's or have you had your walls sponge painted by a professional?

Do you own any Down pillows or comforters?

Do you wear cologne or perfume? If so, do you use a vegan one (not many choices here)

Do you make sure your shampoo does not contain Panthenol (Most do)?

Do you take birth control pills? (most contain estrogen)

holding

I used to get this a LOT - I still do sometimes. I found that it really only came up when people visited, and saw my cookbooks/ the contents of the fridge etc (I don't bang on about it in public, except sometimes in a positive way, ie 'omg this brownie recipe is amazing!'). So I printed out vegan bingo, and stuck it up on the kitchen wall. It has stopped *all* the usual (same old same old) comments!

http://vegansaurus.com/post/254784826/defensive-omnivore-bingo

Crasp

Zombienosh wrote: »

It's best to keep your beliefs personal most of the time. Even if someone asks about it it's only so they can argue and try make you think you're wrong.
Maybe that's just what I've encountered but the only people you can talk about vegan life is other vegans. Most meat lovers I've encountered are unable for civilised discussion.

As a meat eater (am I allowed in here?) I would agree! There was a time when I was intolerant of people for making the veggie/vegan choice. Now I don't really care. I totally disagree with it but I would never try and force that on anyone. Each to their own!

So ya, I can see why you would have that opinion of us, I'd agree with you that most of us are like that.

Killer_banana wrote: »

Well if a meateater tries to tell you your choice is wrong it's pretty annoying isn't it? It feels the same for them if you do it. Even if you feel meat is morally wrong and cannot understand why people choose to do so telling them they are wrong isn't going to endear them to you or your cause in anyway.

Yes, that's the problem. Your choice is as crazy to us as ours is to you. I would hope that noone would try force vegetarianism/veganism on me, as I would never force someone to eat meat. It works both ways. We both need to respect the other person's point of view!

rubadub wrote: »

If you are intentionally going to rile people up like this be prepared for questions back, unless you don't mind or can defend any hypocrisy.

Just googling "how vegan are you"

"Do you wear wool?" is that really considered cruel? I thought the whole veggie/vegan things was about not killing/harming animals? What's the problem with shaving them?

(obviously I understand most of the rest require the animal to be dead).

holding

Crasp, a vegetarian would tend to avoid animal products that had been produced by the animals death - therefore they would eat eggs, milk, honey, and use wool, but they would avoid meat, leather and silk. A vegan tends to avoid all products that rely on the use of animals in any way. NB though - this is different for everyone and down to personal choice and how much each vegan/ vegetarian is willing to compromise. There is no use reaching for perfection etc.

rinkal26783

Why should you care about other people? You just walk alone.

Killer_banana

Crasp wrote: »

"Do you wear wool?" is that really considered cruel? I thought the whole veggie/vegan things was about not killing/harming animals? What's the problem with shaving them?

(obviously I understand most of the rest require the animal to be dead).

It depends on the individual's choices and reasons for being vegetarian/vegan but I've always assumed wool was either provided by the animals that are farmed for meat (just like leather comes from the cows farmed for meat) and even if this is not the case my main reason for avoiding animal products is to do with the treatment during the farming process so even if sheep are only farmed for wool and not killed I doubt the are cared for or kept in very good conditions. I could be wrong though. I think I'll do some research into actually, shouldn't really be working off of assumptions.

BMJD

rubadub wrote: »

If you are intentionally going to rile people up like this be prepared for questions back, unless you don't mind or can defend any hypocrisy.

Just googling "how vegan are you"

Do you play any organized sports like football, soccer, softball where the ball is made from animal hyde?

no

Do you have any leather handbags, wallets, cell phone cases,shoes, car seats?

no

Do you print photographs at home on vegan photo paper? (many varities contain gelatin)

no

Do you wear wool or silk?

no

Do you play a classical string instrument like a viola, violin, bass violin with a horsehair bow?

no

Do you listen to classical music where horsehair bows are used?

no

Do you have a garden at home and do you use manure to fertilize it?

no

Do you seek vegetables that are grown without hiring out polinization services to bee keepers? Most large farms do hire out to bee-keepers. These are the same bee keepers that produce honey. The polinization services augment their honey income.

wat

Or, do you use commercial fertilizer where many brands contain bone meal or animal blood?

no

Do you eat store purchased vegetables that have been grown with either of the above fertilizers?

wat

Do you use any skincare products that contain lanolin or collagen (both animal biproducts)

no

Do you buy furniture that contains shellac (made from an insect)

no

Do you have any hair brushes that are made from boars hair

no

Do you buy vegan glue and seek products that are made with a vegan glue

haven't bought glue since I was a kid

Do any of your household cleaners contain calcium phosphate?

no

Do you own any natural sponges or loofah's or have you had your walls sponge painted by a professional?

no

Do you own any Down pillows or comforters?

no

Do you wear cologne or perfume? If so, do you use a vegan one (not many choices here)

no

Do you make sure your shampoo does not contain Panthenol (Most do)?

don't use shampoo

Do you take birth control pills? (most contain estrogen)

my penis is loaded and ready for action (that's a no)

hope this doesn't rile you up

BMJD

BMJD wrote: »

my penis is loaded and ready for action (that's a no)

Finished before you have even started. :P

Zombienosh

Speaking of meat eaters giving veggies a hard time, the how vegan are you post reminded me of Vegan elite snobbery. Has anyone ever experienced this? A vegan who might get all high horsey and scoff at a veggie?

Tar.Aldarion

Yup.

Also you don't have to buy glue, it's used in everything around you, that is what he meant.

holding

Zombienosh wrote: »

Speaking of meat eaters giving veggies a hard time, the how vegan are you post reminded me of Vegan elite snobbery. Has anyone ever experienced this? A vegan who might get all high horsey and scoff at a veggie?

Am sure this happens in all walks of life, with different lifestyle choices. For example, someone with a Prius might get smug at someone with a BMW. Or a breastfeeding mum might get high horsey with a bottle feeding mum. Or etc etc etc Just part of life!

Zombienosh

Indeed, my point being a veggie is preachy at a meat eater, a vegan with a veggie and so on and so on. So everyone just pay less attention to everyone else and what they think about your choices.

holding

Absolutely. Plus who has time for that when there are so many delicious recipes to be cooking up!

simon0brien

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think people are well able to make these decisions for themselves.
So I don't see any point trying to spread your pov. Making moral judgements isn't very fair, I hate when meateaters do that to me.
So I would go for the 1st option.

If that were true why did I only decide to become vegan at 23??
If I had been educated properly and been subject to even a little
discussion about animal cruelty I would have challenged my meat eating
a long time ago.. If you really believe in something you will spread your idea..
And how can you say making moral judgement isn't fair?? Do you think
genocide is okay??

simon0brien

Killer_banana wrote: »

Well if a meateater tries to tell you your choice is wrong it's pretty annoying isn't it? It feels the same for them if you do it. Even if you feel meat is morally wrong and cannot understand why people choose to do so telling them they are wrong isn't going to endear them to you or your cause in anyway.

I'm vegetarian, working my way towards veganism, and if people ask me why then I do explain my choices, if not then I don't bother explaining them.

I don't find It annoying.. I like debating and if somebody said
that abstaining from meat is wrong I'd ask why.. If ppl chose to eat meat then
that's completely okay by me.. But chances are they do so in ignorance..

Killer_banana

simon0brien wrote: »

I don't find It annoying.. I like debating and if somebody said
that abstaining from meat is wrong I'd ask why.. If ppl chose to eat meat then
that's completely okay by me.. But chances are they do so in ignorance..

I don't mind debate, I like debate. I mean the people who tell you are flat out wrong and unwilling to listen to others ideas and opinions. I like discussing my beliefs and why I choose to eat what I do but I don't believe in shoving my opinions on others which is why, unless someone expresses an interest in my views or challenges them I don't bother discussing them.

I don't think that many people eat meat in ignorance but I could be wrong.

simon0brien

rubadub wrote: »

If you are intentionally going to rile people up like this be prepared for questions back, unless you don't mind or can defend any hypocrisy.

Just googling "how vegan are you"

Rile people up?
Proposing a discussion is not riling ppl up
And even if you do partake in any of these things at least
you can say you are making an effort to reduce animal cruelty..
The other option is to not give a f*ck

simon0brien

Killer_banana wrote: »

I don't mind debate, I like debate. I mean the people who tell you are flat out wrong and unwilling to listen to others ideas and opinions. I like discussing my beliefs and why I choose to eat what I do but I don't believe in shoving my opinions on others which is why, unless someone expresses an interest in my views or challenges them I don't bother discussing them.

I don't think that many people eat meat in ignorance but I could be wrong.

I am mostly the same way.. But I'd have a debate with anybody because It's
likely
they will never say that they support everything that goes on in the food
trade.. And if they do they won't be able to tell you what goes on.. So their
argument will one of ignorance.. The reality is that everybody will be outraged if they were to see a dog subjected to animal cruelty yet they
have no problem buying eggs from battery chickens..

simon0brien

Zombienosh wrote: »

Indeed, my point being a veggie is preachy at a meat eater, a vegan with a veggie and so on and so on. So everyone just pay less attention to everyone else and what they think about your choices.

But if you see somebody eating a product from animals who were subject to horrible torturous lives are you just supposed to sit there and not say anything?

Zombienosh

simon0brien wrote: »

But if you see somebody eating a product from animals who were subject to horrible torturous lives are you just supposed to sit there and not say anything?

well yeah. What are you going to do? Preaching to them won't change their mind, They need to make that decision themselves.

simon0brien

Zombienosh wrote: »

well yeah. What are you going to do? Preaching to them won't change their mind, They need to make that decision themselves.

Take that approach to life and we can all do what we want and nobody has the right to question anything.. So I'm just going to go out now and throw some bottles at gay ppl and piss on homeless ppl because that's my choice

CommanderC

Zombienosh wrote: »

It's best to keep your beliefs personal most of the time. Even if someone asks about it it's only so they can argue and try make you think you're wrong.
Maybe that's just what I've encountered but the only people you can talk about vegan life is other vegans. Most meat lovers I've encountered are unable for civilised discussion.

The pot calling the kettle black.

Zombienosh

CommanderC wrote: »

The pot calling the kettle black.

how's that? I'm not being uncivilised?

Zombienosh

simon0brien wrote: »

Take that approach to life and we can all do what we want and nobody has the right to question anything.. So I'm just going to go out now and throw some bottles at gay ppl and piss on homeless ppl because that's my choice

I think there's a difference between throwing bottles at homeless people and someone eating meat....