Vegan Philosophy?

crazy cabbage

crazy cabbage wrote: »

I am am a vegetariean but new enough to it so sorry if i get something wrong.

Are you suggesting that everyone becomes vegan... If people did that then all cows and sheep and chickens and hens and pigs and and and ect ect ect would die out almost imideatly. That doesn't seem in line with what you are trying to achieve by becoming vegan. If i went out and shot every one of the above anaimls on the planet it would be equivelent to everyone becoming vegan IMO.
As a vegetarian you (well I at least) believe that we can live alongside anaimals and give them a quality of life and in return take what eggs and milk ect that we need in a way that is respectful to the anaimal involved. That wouldn't happen if everyone was vegan becouse who would rear anaimals for no benifit what so ever?

Sorry if i got something wrong but i think that that is logical reasoning. If i jumped a step in my logic let me know.

You said this ealier so i will say it back in light of my reasoning above.
Again I never would normally challenge someones beliefs like this but if you are going to call me discusting.... Plus like you said in an earlier post you dont mind debating and educating people on this

simon0brien wrote: »

That's a good point. In Ireland I'm sure almost all dairy product come from decent sources and from farmers who care deeply for their animals. But after all the milking has been done and the animals dairy product producing days are through I'm sure they are killed for their meat. So I see demand for dairy products as the prelude for the demand for meat. If I had chickens or a cow outside I wouldn't think twice about using their dairy.

So you in effect agree that there is nothing wrong with eating eggs and drinking milk once the animal isn't eatn after it dies?

Im actully not sure where i stand on this myself but will throw it out there and try and follow the logic. See where it goes. If the cow/ hen or whatever dies naturaly after you personal gave it a high quality of life (for it's dairy and eggs and whatever else), what would be your position?
Would you:
A - Eat it.
B - Burry it straight after it dies
C - Use it to feed domistacated anaimals that arn't vegaterian and other uses like this.

Like yourself i believe that both human and animals livies are equaly valuable. I myself dont want my body to go to wast after i die. I want it to go to medical science. Note that this is fundimantly different to killing me/ rearing me for medical science.

But if I view animals and us equally and an animal dies naturally then to just throw it away to rot seems wastful and distespectful to the animals involved. When your animal dies, to let another animal eat it seems the most natural thing in the world. And arn't humans animals? Like not killing me to do medical research, is it not ok to eat (or let someone else eat) an animal so long as they weren't killed/ so long as they died on there own terms and had a good quality of life?
If not the above at the very least it seems moraly ok to me that when this animal dies that its body be put to some use.
You said that you would drink this animals milk and eat its eggs. What would you do with it after it dies?

simon0brien

Killer_banana wrote: »

You're right it is arrogant of me to assume that humans lives are more important than animals. I shouldn't do that. I'm a vegan though, I'm more likely to think like that. The truth is, as I said, most people don't see humans and animals as equals and if you use the loss of human life as a comparison they won't listen to you. That might make you angry but telling them they're wrong won't do you any favours. At the end of the day people get angry when you don't respect their point of view and by preaching to people or telling them that you think them eating meat is inhumane is disrespecting their choice.

I like meat eaters to respect my opinions and choices and in return I extend them the same courtesy. I welcome the chance to talk about my choices and in some ways educate people when I get it but if someone doesn't express interest then I'm not going to force my views on them. I feel like I'm going round in circles here and saying the same things over and over so unless I fell I have something radically know to add I can't see myself posting here again.

I find It very respectable that you are a vegan. I think It says a lot about a person. I'd never preach to anyone who eats meat because I ate everything for 23 years. It wasn't that I didn't care about animal welfare or the moral gap between killing I was just coasting by doing the same thing everybody around me did and what I was born into. After I started to think I did a 180. But as soon as the debate gets started and meat eaters begin to tell me the reasons they believe eating meat isn't morally wrong at all I can see though all the nonsense. I know everybody has a right to an opinion but I've never believed any opinions of meat eaters to be anything but selfish. The only argument I can fully respect is 'I know It may be wrong to kill animals for my pleasure/ convenience but I'm willing to live with that' because that is the truth.

I'm not forcing my opinions on anybody. If they choose to enter a debate that's what I'll return. People have entered this discussion only to say 'how dare you have an opinion'. They should leave if they are reluctant to talk.

simon0brien

crazy cabbage wrote: »

So you in effect agree that there is nothing wrong with eating eggs and drinking milk once the animal isn't eatn after it dies?

Im actully not sure where i stand on this myself but will throw it out there and try and follow the logic. See where it goes. If the cow/ hen or whatever dies naturaly after you personal gave it a high quality of life (for it's dairy and eggs and whatever else), what would be your position?
Would you:
A - Eat it.
B - Burry it straight after it dies
C - Use it to feed domistacated anaimals that arn't vegaterian and other uses like this.

Like yourself i believe that both human and animals livies are equaly valuable. I myself dont want my body to go to wast after i die. I want it to go to medical science. Note that this is fundimantly different to killing me/ rearing me for medical science.

But if I view animals and us equally and an animal dies naturally then to just throw it away to rot seems wastful and distespectful to the animals involved. When your animal dies, to let another animal eat it seems the most natural thing in the world. And arn't humans animals? Like not killing me to do medical research, is it not ok to eat (or let someone else eat) an animal so long as they weren't killed/ so long as they died on there own terms and had a good quality of life?
If not the above at the very least it seems moraly ok to me that when this animal dies that its body be put to some use.
You said that you would drink this animals milk and eat its eggs. What would you do with it after it dies?

Yep I can't see any reason why that would be bad. Everybody is happy in that situation.

That's very interesting. I wouldn't bother eating the meat because even though I've only been off meat for over two months I've lost all my desire for the taste. I actually prefer soya mince now :O But I wouldn't see anything wrong with others eating the meat. I'm sure It would be healthy to eat the meat from an animal who died naturally? As I would have no problem feeding the meat to other animals who are above It on the food chain. I think I'd offer up my body to whatever science or person It would serve after I die too :P

crazy cabbage

simon0brien wrote: »

Yep I can't see any reason why that would be bad. Everybody is happy in that situation.

That's very interesting. I wouldn't bother eating the meat because even though I've only been off meat for over two months I've lost all my desire for the taste. I actually prefer soya mince now :O But I wouldn't see anything wrong with others eating the meat. I'm sure It would be healthy to eat the meat from an animal who died naturally? As I would have no problem feeding the meat to other animals who are above It on the food chain. I think I'd offer up my body to whatever science or person It would serve after I die too :P

Glad you agree Instead of trying to debate a vegan lifestyle to people instead why not try vegaterian becouse like i said earlier if everyone became vegan then all the animals would die out? Or a reduced meat diet.

Ya can only change the world one step at a time.

ps: congrats on being 2 months into it. Am only 4ish monts into the veggy thing myself. hahahaha im winning :P jk

Magenta

Magenta wrote: »

To be honest, you're the one who sounds immature.

simon0brien wrote: »

Yes I'm sure you know me very well hahahaha pathetic

Thanks for proving my point for me. That was easy!

The Hill Billy

Quit the sniping & personal jibes.

Please discuss the topic in a reasonable manner or do not bother posting.

tHB

blatantrereg

I'm vegetarian, not vegan. I don't usually mention it unless it's relevant. When I do mention it I usually say I don't eat meat. I think for some people the word vegetarian means poser/loony/hippy.

simon0brien

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Glad you agree Instead of trying to debate a vegan lifestyle to people instead why not try vegaterian becouse like i said earlier if everyone became vegan then all the animals would die out? Or a reduced meat diet.

Ya can only change the world one step at a time.

ps: congrats on being 2 months into it. Am only 4ish monts into the veggy thing myself. hahahaha im winning :P jk

Yep If everybody were vegan or vegetarian the debate would be over and we would all be healthier.

Well done :P I'm enjoying food more now and I get a buzz from eating mostly healthy stuff. I don't even have to try now It's like second nature.

simon0brien

blatantrereg wrote: »

I'm vegetarian, not vegan. I don't usually mention it unless it's relevant. When I do mention it I usually say I don't eat meat. I think for some people the word vegetarian means poser/loony/hippy.

I wouldn't be afraid of what those people think.

crazy cabbage

simon0brien wrote: »

Yep If everybody were vegan or vegetarian the debate would be over and we would all be healthier.

Well done :P I'm enjoying food more now and I get a buzz from eating mostly healthy stuff. I don't even have to try now It's like second nature.

But again you dont see anything wrong with eating meat under the right circumanstances and eating meat is perfectly healty.

You siad that if everyone was veg*an then the debate would be over but i think the debat would be equally over if everyone only ate meat when the animal died naturally (like we have already established). Of course this would mean the everyone would eat ALOT less meet but still not veg*an.

simon0brien

crazy cabbage wrote: »

But again you dont see anything wrong with eating meat under the right circumanstances and eating meat is perfectly healty.

You siad that if everyone was veg*an then the debate would be over but i think the debat would be equally over if everyone only ate meat when the animal died naturally (like we have already established). Of course this would mean the everyone would eat ALOT less meet but still not veg*an.

Yep. I completely agree with you. Under these circumstances there would be no manipulation or cruelty of animals.