Great Train Rip-Off continues

steamengine

Tragedy wrote: »

Strange that you glossed over Table 18(that attempts to quantify the external costs per 1,000km travelled to give a level playing field for comparisons).
I wonder why that might possibly be?

Is it because Bus/Coach is €36.6 per 1,000 km as compared to €23.4 for rail transport?

Why yes, I do think that's why you cherrypicked an utterly meaningless statistic and completely ignored the salient one

So you would pick Table 18 and discard Table 19 and you accuse me of cherrypicking ??? - It's disingenuous IMO to read a report and discard the bits that don't suit your side of the argument. I acknowledge the report in its entirety including all the tables and charts.

bk

end of the road I have a big problem with you calling the buses: "cramed into a rickity old bus"

You clearly have never ridden on any of the new bus services. It clearly shows me that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I dare you to take one of the direct buses to Galway. Every single bus on this route is either a brand new, shiny, 2012 or 2013 coach. Van Hools, one of the absolute premier coach manufactures that make the most solid coaches you can imagine. This is the company who make coaches that carry German tourists all across Europe on long distance trips, trust me they are incredibly comfortable.

These coaches are far more modern, far better put together, far quieter and smother ride and far more comfortable then any train I've ever used in Ireland.

I'm saying this as a person who regularly took the Mark 4's and 22k's for years.

Really, please give it a go, just try it once.

If you had asked me about coaches 3 years ago, I would have agreed with you, I had the same misinformed opinion of you, having never taken a modern coach service.

It was only when I took a bus trip to Galway about 2 years ago that my eyes were opened and I saw how excellent a modern coach service could be. Cheap, fast and very comfortable.

Tragedy

steamengine wrote: »

So you would pick Table 18 and discard Table 19 and you accuse me of cherrypicking ??? - It's disingenuous IMO to read a report and discard the bits that don't suit your side of the argument. I acknowledge the report in its entirety including all the tables and charts.

Yes I do. Table 19 is not measuring usage per capita or per X amount of distance traveled. Therefore, figures cannot be compared (which is what you tried to do).

I understand statistics, you quite obviously don't.

steamengine

Tragedy wrote: »

Yes I do. Table 19 is not measuring usage per capita or per X amount of distance traveled. Therefore, figures cannot be compared (which is what you tried to do).

Table 19 shows the total annual cost of the externalities for all modes of transport per head of population for that year. I was using it to demonstrate that while rail does receive a substantial annual subsidy , roads incur substantial annual costs also due to externalities. To say that figures in Table 19 cannot be compared is a tad ridiculous IMO. Tables 19/20 also indicate how safe rail is compared to road generally.

I understand statistics, you quite obviously don't.

Ok - On the basis of your second smart assumption - I'll leave it there then !!!

bk

bk wrote: »

end of the road I have a big problem with you calling the buses: "cramed into a rickity old bus"

You clearly have never ridden on any of the new bus services. It clearly shows me that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I dare you to take one of the direct buses to Galway. Every single bus on this route is either a brand new, shiny, 2012 or 2013 coach. Van Hools, one of the absolute premier coach manufactures that make the most solid coaches you can imagine. This is the company who make coaches that carry German tourists all across Europe on long distance trips, trust me they are incredibly comfortable.

These coaches are far more modern, far better put together, far quieter and smother ride and far more comfortable then any train I've ever used in Ireland.

I'm saying this as a person who regularly took the Mark 4's and 22k's for years.

Really, please give it a go, just try it once.

If you had asked me about coaches 3 years ago, I would have agreed with you, I had the same misinformed opinion of you, having never taken a modern coach service.

It was only when I took a bus trip to Galway about 2 years ago that my eyes were opened and I saw how excellent a modern coach service could be. Cheap, fast and very comfortable.

I'll keep out of the general bus vs rail discussion this time around. :pac:

I never liked most of the Bus Éireann fleet, the VCs, SPs and the like. However I was on an LE from Busaras to Newry and I have to admit it was quite nice. My biggest issue with most coaches is that I feel very claustrophobic but I didn't feel that in the LE, though I was upstairs in the front seat so maybe that had something to do with it.

I can't speak for the private operators as I've no experience with them.