S2S Cycleway - northside

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

I use that route Monday to Friday, I didn't that day because I was off work.

There was torrential rain in the area and lots of flooding in various area's of Dublin, including the Clontarf road. Some of which becomes almost impassible for a motorist.

And whilst I'm obviously against people driving on the new path, common sense must prevail on that day. The sea front was almost devoid of cyclists & pedestrians because of the weather.

While I probably wouldn't have initiated driving off the flooded road and onto the cycle to rejoin the road were it was safe, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same if I thought that was the safer option.

The flooding in the area was pretty bad for most of that day, in fact there was a few hours when I was stuck in my estate because of a major flood nearby.

Outside of that day I haven't seen or heard of anyone else driving on it.

Chuchote

Giancarlo Scrawny Chairlift wrote: »

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

I use that route Monday to Friday, I didn't that day because I was off work.

There was torrential rain in the area and lots of flooding in various area's of Dublin, including the Clontarf road. Some of which becomes almost impassible for a motorist.

Normally when that happens and you're driving you divert to a better road, not to a path limited to different road users. If a cycle lane is flooded, I don't expect to use the motorway on my bike.

Also, the photo shows other cars managing to use the road.

Tenzor07

Giancarlo Scrawny Chairlift wrote: »

There was torrential rain in the area and lots of flooding in various area's of Dublin, including the Clontarf road. Some of which becomes almost impassible for a motorist.
And whilst I'm obviously against people driving on the new path, common sense must prevail on that day. The sea front was almost devoid of cyclists & pedestrians because of the weather.

Surely though it's up to the Gardai to direct motor vehicles onto footpaths or separated cycle lanes, otherwise we'd be dodging Skoda's every time there's a big puddle?
Common sense would say that if a road is impassable then go find another route?

Chuchote

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Surely though it's up to the Gardai to direct motor vehicles onto footpaths or separated cycle lanes, otherwise we'd be dodging Skoda's every time there's a big puddle?
Common sense would say that if a road is impassable then go find another route?

Unless you're in a big expensive car, of course; then you're entitled to use any road surface :eek:

odyssey06

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Surely though it's up to the Gardai to direct motor vehicles onto footpaths or separated cycle lanes, otherwise we'd be dodging Skoda's every time there's a big puddle?
Common sense would say that if a road is impassable then go find another route?

A big puddle does not equal "impassable road", so what scenario are we talking about exactly???

Dublin 3 had numerous flooded roads, how many Gardai do you think are available to monitor all of these?
Given that Gardai don't attend car crashes unless someone is injured, do you really think they'll come out for this?
And given these numerous flooded roads, how does a driver know what alternative routes are or are not passable?

Also, as a general point, this was flooding from rain not from the sea, likely the culverted rivers in the area the wall might have actually made it worse by making it harder for the overflow to escape. As part of the works, I thought DCC were also improving the river drainage in the area but whatever they did was not enough

railer201

Apart from incurring the wrath of any cyclists who may be on it at the time, any motorist tempted to use it should think twice before crossing over that kerb as it dips down on to the cycle track also - an exhaust box, sump or other low placed component could very possibly be damaged or ripped off.

Tenzor07

odyssey06 wrote: »

A big puddle does not equal "impassable road", so what scenario are we talking about exactly???
Dublin 3 had numerous flooded roads, how many Gardai do you think are available to monitor all of these?
Given that Gardai don't attend car crashes unless someone is injured, do you really think they'll come out for this?
And given these numerous flooded roads, how does a driver know what alternative routes are or are not passable?
Also, as a general point, this was flooding from rain not from the sea, likely the culverted rivers in the area the wall might have actually made it worse by making it harder for the overflow to escape. As part of the works, I thought DCC were also improving the river drainage in the area but whatever they did was not enough

Nice rant, though you missed my point entirely..

Segregated Cycle lanes(and footpaths) are not meant for motor vehicles! Simples..

Tenzor07

railer201 wrote: »

Apart from incurring the wrath of any cyclists who may be on it at the time

Apart from potentially causing serious injury to a child, a man or a woman who may be on a cycle lane designed for bicycle users?

Leroy42

If the road was flooded, and thus impassable, then I would have no issue with traffic being diverted, whether that be officially or by users making a responsible decision, onto other usable infrastructure.

It seems churlish in the extreme to expect vehicles to sit in a flooded lane when a perfectly serviceable option is available. Unusual situations sometimes require unusual remedies.

The issue in this picture is that quite clearly this is not the case. Other cars, including one assumes the vehicle from which the picture was taken, are able to use the lane and thus the car on the cycle lane is simply fed up waiting and decided that their time is more valuable that the possible safety considerations.

Of course, it can be argued that any cyclists could avoid that car, but why only one car. Once one is allowed, we all know that soon it will become accepted and before lone parking (I needed to use the phone, only running into the shop etc).

But after saying all that, is the car actually breaking any law by doing this and if so what is the possible consequences since the garda will have the reg?

markpb

Leroy42 wrote: »

If the road was flooded, and thus impassable, then I would have no issue with traffic being diverted, whether that be officially or by users making a responsible decision, onto other usable infrastructure.

It's entirely possible that the cycle lane was not built to withstand the weight of the average car. Usable infrastructure today, pothole-ridden mess next year.

Tenzor07

Leroy42 wrote: »

If the road was flooded, and thus impassable, then I would have no issue with traffic being diverted, whether that be officially or by users making a responsible decision, onto other usable infrastructure.
It seems churlish in the extreme to expect vehicles to sit in a flooded lane when a perfectly serviceable option is available. Unusual situations sometimes require unusual remedies.
The issue in this picture is that quite clearly this is not the case. Other cars, including one assumes the vehicle from which the picture was taken, are able to use the lane and thus the car on the cycle lane is simply fed up waiting and decided that their time is more valuable that the possible safety considerations.
Of course, it can be argued that any cyclists could avoid that car, but why only one car. Once one is allowed, we all know that soon it will become accepted and before lone parking (I needed to use the phone, only running into the shop etc).
But after saying all that, is the car actually breaking any law by doing this and if so what is the possible consequences since the garda will have the reg?

Goes back to my point that if the cycle lane is to be used to divert motor traffic, then it must be done by the Gardai in order to ensure public safety.

In the UK I believe London was to introduce a ?120 fine for driving in cycle lanes, currently it's ?30 with no penalty points..

mr spuckler

markpb wrote: »

It's entirely possible that the cycle lane was not built to withstand the weight of the average car. Usable infrastructure today, pothole-ridden mess next year.

based on the number of construction related vans and trucks that i've seen parked on it i suspect unfortunately that it's up to that task.

also, another video i saw showed a car coming in the opposite direction on the cycle track, so much so that from the park side out there was one lane of outbound traffic trying to steer around the flood, one lane of inbound traffic and one car outbound on the cycle lane.

this morning they're digging up the road outside bay restaurant - needless to say the road works signs are in the cycle lane.

ThisRegard

Giancarlo Scrawny Chairlift wrote: »

There was torrential rain in the area and lots of flooding in various area's of Dublin, including the Clontarf road. Some of which becomes almost impassible for a motorist.

So what you're saying was that the road wasn't impassible so there's no excuse for that motorist?

mr spuckler

odyssey06 wrote: »

And given these numerous flooded roads, how does a driver know what alternative routes are or are not passable?

there's only 1 alternative route around the park and it takes you up well above sea level, so i think it would be a safe bet were people to try it ahead of driving in the cycle lane

Effects

ThisRegard wrote: »

So what you're saying was that the road wasn't impassible so there's no excuse for that motorist?

It was reported by the person taking the photo that the driver was using the lane to bypass all the traffic, not to avoid the flooding.

odyssey06

mr spuckler wrote: »

there's only 1 alternative route around the park and it takes you up well above sea level, so i think it would be a safe bet were people to try it ahead of driving in the cycle lane

The flooding has nothing to do with sea level though, it was due to rainfall and culverted rivers not tidal water...

mr spuckler

odyssey06 wrote: »

The flooding has nothing to do with sea level though, it was due to rainfall and culverted rivers not tidal water...

sea level referred to elevation, not the sea causing the flooding. all saints road & howth road are at much higher elevations, with the water flowing downhill away from those routes.

odyssey06

mr spuckler wrote: »

sea level referred to elevation, not the sea causing the flooding. all saints road & howth road are at much higher elevations, with the water flowing downhill away from those routes.

Not necessarily always the case, for example the Howth Road floods at the train bridge near Harry Byrnes.
If there's a flat section on a road, or undulation, even higher elevation sections can flood.

Fighting Tao

I may have missed it but I have a question. Even if cars were directed to the off road cycle track by the guards has it been built to withstand the weight of cars/trucks/busses etc?

odyssey06

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I may have missed it but I have a question. Even if cars were directed to the off road cycle track by the guards has it been built to withstand the weight of cars/trucks/busses etc?

Not sure, it took the weight of the JCB that laid it down ok...

mr spuckler

and drainage trucks and work vans that regularly park / drive on it.

mr spuckler

odyssey06 wrote: »

Howth Road floods at the train bridge near Harry Byrnes, if there's a flat section on a road, or undulation, even higher elevation sections can flood.

there are always alternative options / routes when people look for them. in this case they clearly weren't sought out and i don't think it was because of genuine fear of another road being flooded.

no point in continuing to go around in circles if we just have opposing views. at this point it would be best if boards had a thumbs up emoji.

Leroy42

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not sure, it took the weight of the JCB that laid it down ok...

There is a massive difference between a slow moving, once off machine rolling across it and the eroding nature of consistent traffic (consistent does not mean daily in this case).

A rock will withstand water at any given time, but over a certain period of time, or a certain amount of water, the seemingly stronger rock will succumb.

One car/bus/truck etc will not case any noticeable damage. But is the carriageway is not designed to take certain weights/loads then over time the frailties will start to become appartant

arybvtcw0eolkf

markpb wrote: »

It's entirely possible that the cycle lane was not built to withstand the weight of the average car. Usable infrastructure today, pothole-ridden mess next year.

There are cars, vans & tractors which are being used by the people working on both the path and the road still using some of the path.

IMO people are getting their panties in a twist over nothing. That road is liable to flooding, don't be surprised if this is an on going issue until the flooding problems are sorted.

As for AGS redirecting traffic in the area, I'm here 25 years and haven't seen that happen yet.

Effects

Giancarlo Scrawny Chairlift wrote: »

As for AGS redirecting traffic in the area, I'm here 25 years and haven't seen that happen yet.

Does this count:





A friend of mine has a clipping from a news paper of his brother cycling through the floods here on his bike. It's from the mid 80! Nothing's changed.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Effects wrote: »

Does this count:

Dammit, I meant to say ''the army'', now find those photos

I've never seen AGS there before, but then I don't monitor the roads 24/7.

Point is the Clontarf Road and its environs are liable to flooding, and when a road is flooded expect people to divert to where its safer for them to drive, and a deserted cycle path is the safer option IMO.

But hey, this is an internet forum so people who'll never use either that road or path will argue to the death over it have a nice chat about it.

mr spuckler

and plenty of us both cycle and drive that route regularly :pac:

Doeshedare

I was cycling home yesterday evening (towards Howth) and at the Wooden bridge, with the main traffic light green, I continued on the cycle path, across the bridge road and onto the cycle path again without stopping or slowing. A car also travelling in the Howth direction turned right onto the bridge road at about the same time as I continued across it. I got an irate beep of the horn.

I think there used to be a pedestrian crossing there and that would dictate the right of way but as far as I know it is gone (I don't remember seeing it) so the only guidance is the main (road) traffic lights. With it being green for traffic on the main road I assumed it was green for me and that the bloke in the car turning off the main road should yield. Clearly he thought otherwise.

Am I right or was he right to be annoyed?

DominoDub

‘Professionally-dressed cyclists’ making Clontarf promenade unsafe, woman claims


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/professionally-dressed-cyclists-making-clontarf-promenade-unsafe-woman-claims-1.3101610

A woman wrote to Dublin City Council calling for the introduction of cycle speed limits on the promenade between Dollymount and Sutton after she claimed her toddler was nearly run over.

In the letter, released as part of a Freedom of Information request, the woman said local mothers no longer bring their children to walk or cycle along the promenade because of fears over safety.

“Myself and my husband were walking along the promenade last Tuesday morning and my toddler was on his tricycle in the bicycle lane,” she said in her letter, sent last summer.

“A couple of very professionally-dressed cyclists came speeding down the bicycle path at lightning speed and began yelling and cursing to get the child off the track.

“My child jumped off his bicycle in terror and ran straight out in front of them. My husband literally dived to push [him] into the nearby grass area where it took us several minutes to calm him.

“The cyclist continued to shout and yell as he sped on with no regard for the child who had a gash in the side of his stomach from the fall. I shudder to think what could have happened if my partner had not stepped in.

“There is a cycle lane on the road near the promenade for commuters too, whereas this one has always been used for recreational use and has always been child-friendly.

She added: “There is no speed limit and speaking to other mothers in the area, they have each had a similar experience, all but one choosing not to bring their children to walk and cycle there anymore due to the very unsafe nature of these reckless cyclists who seem to think the rest of the pedestrians and children are impinging on their territory.”

Earlier this year a number of posters appeared in Howth calling on cyclists to slow down in the Dublin suburb. Messages set out on cartoon posters read, “It’s the Hill of Howth, not the Tour de France”.

Tenzor07

DominoDub wrote: »

?Professionally-dressed cyclists? making Clontarf promenade unsafe, woman claims

Caught!