S2S Cycleway - northside

Leroy42

Doeshedare wrote: »

I was cycling home yesterday evening (towards Howth) and at the Wooden bridge, with the main traffic light green, I continued on the cycle path, across the bridge road and onto the cycle path again without stopping or slowing. A car also travelling in the Howth direction turned right onto the bridge road at about the same time as I continued across it. I got an irate beep of the horn.

I think there used to be a pedestrian crossing there and that would dictate the right of way but as far as I know it is gone (I don't remember seeing it) so the only guidance is the main (road) traffic lights. With it being green for traffic on the main road I assumed it was green for me and that the bloke in the car turning off the main road should yield. Clearly he thought otherwise.

Am I right or was he right to be annoyed?

My understanding is that you are effectively crossing as a pedestrian and as such the car had the right of way. They should put up traffic lights for bicycles (as they do on the canal near Harcourt St).

For the time being, if lights are green (for the road) then you need to yield to cars turning onto the wooden bridge

Macy0161

Leroy42 wrote: »

My understanding is that you are effectively crossing as a pedestrian and as such the car had the right of way.

If they were already on the junction, they had right of way (same as a pedestrian would) wouldn't they?

Leroy42

Macy0161 wrote: »

If they were already on the junction, they had right of way (same as a pedestrian would) wouldn't they?

Well yes, I was coming from the point of who had it upon entering.

Obviously all road users must yield to avoid accidents, but I assumed it was you was technically in the right.

IMO, without knowing the exact timing, the car would be well within their rights to complain if a cyclist crossed whilst they were turning.

The cycle lane ends, you are therefore entering normal roads and as such since one is not on the road (ie crossing the pedestrian crossing) one should actually wait until the green man

Doeshedare

If the car was obviously mid turn, I would have yielded. As far as I remember we hit the junction at the same time, though in reality he must have been just ahead of me. It wasn't a near miss in my book.

If the car has the right of way then with any sort of traffic the cyclist would have to practically stop to cross because the cars that might turn are hard to see (because they are one lane over). If they put in a bike crossing then maybe it should flash amber while the main road is green, turn red when the cars can come off the bridge and be green when the pedestrian light is green for people crossing the main road.

Chuchote

Whoever had right of way, the horn is legally only allowed to be used to warn of danger, if I remember my early driving training correctly.

Leroy42

Its not about what time the car arrives. The lights that control that crossing for you (the cyclist) are the pedestrian lights.

Given that the road lights must have been green therefore the pedestrian must have been red. If you cycled across you have effectively broken the lights

mr spuckler

yeah the car has the lights, you don't. this was one of the many reasons why the Clontarf Business Association didnt attend the 'grand opening'. basically they've not finished the bloody thing yet so shouldn't be declaring it open, thereby conveying the impression that it is complete.

same applies at the causeway end, you have to assume traffic on the causeway has right of way as there are no signs to the contrary.

Doeshedare

Leroy42 wrote: »

Given that the road lights must have been green therefore the pedestrian must have been red. If you cycled across you have effectively broken the lights

I don't think there are pedestrian lights there anymore, at least I cant remember seeing them since that part of the lane reopened a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't have asked who had the right of way if I knew I had broken lights :eek:. To be clear there are pedestrian lights for crossing the main road, I don't think they are there for crossing wooden bridge road.

Most of other cycle lanes are to the left of traffic (from the perspective of direction of travel). This one is well to the right. As far as I know (and practice) on the regular paths (eg going through Blackrock on the bypass) traffic trying to turn left (across my lane) has to yield to any traffic on that lane - and this is usually the cause of my near misses, cars swinging across my lane causing me to brake, stop, swerve etc. My original query was if this was valid in the Clontarf context.

TherapyBoy

Is there anything painted on the surface at the break in the cycle lane? I think they have painted white 'yield' triangle signs at certain points where the new cycle lanes intersect (madness!) with pedestrian crossings/bus stops etc, have they painted yield signs on the cycle lane surface at the wooden bridge?

Doeshedare

mr spuckler wrote: »

same applies at the causeway end, you have to assume traffic on the causeway has right of way as there are no signs to the contrary.

The Causeway is much more obvious (but if it doesn't say Yield it should)....assuming I amnt blind and there is no light at the wooden bridge road then they need to put one in before there is an accident.

mr spuckler

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Is there anything painted on the surface at the break in the cycle lane? I think they have painted white 'yield' triangle signs at certain points where the new cycle lanes intersect (madness!) with pedestrian crossings/bus stops etc, have they painted yield signs on the cycle lane surface at the wooden bridge?

that's a really good point - they have them painted at the causeway end, not sure on the wooden bridge. either way they should have a more defined and managed crossing, be it a cyclist light or much clearer signs regarding yielding to motor traffic, or preferably having motor traffic yield to cyclists!

mr spuckler

Doeshedare wrote: »

The Causeway is much more obvious (but if it doesn't say Yield it should)....assuming I amnt blind and there is no light at the wooden bridge road then they need to put one in before there is an accident.

i'm certainly not disagreeing with you, but am saying that in the absence of those measures then you should assume that you don't have priority or right of way.

plodder

Doeshedare wrote: »

The Causeway is much more obvious (but if it doesn't say Yield it should)....assuming I amnt blind and there is no light at the wooden bridge road then they need to put one in before there is an accident.

There used to be pedestrian lights there, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were switched off when they created a temporary crossing of the main road to avoid that area. Though the temporary crossing is gone now, there is still works going on.

Granolite

Doeshedare wrote: »

I don't think there are pedestrian lights there anymore, at least I cant remember seeing them since that part of the lane reopened a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't have asked who had the right of way if I knew I had broken lights :eek:. To be clear there are pedestrian lights for crossing the main road, I don't think they are there for crossing wooden bridge road.

Most of other cycle lanes are to the left of traffic (from the perspective of direction of travel). This one is well to the right. As far as I know (and practice) on the regular paths (eg going through Blackrock on the bypass) traffic trying to turn left (across my lane) has to yield to any traffic on that lane - and this is usually the cause of my near misses, cars swinging across my lane causing me to brake, stop, swerve etc. My original query was if this was valid in the Clontarf context.

I was travelling the same direction on the same section of cycle path as you yesterday. However I find your surprise at this news to be fascinating as the lights are prominent at the location in question. Unless the pedestrian light was green you broke the rules here and you are not alone. i would estimate 9 in every 10 users of the cycle lane do so. I think there is a certain amount of `light denial' going on!

I felt like a proper eegit waiting there yesterday as I was passed willy nilly by a regular flow of people. All the while no car/road traffic from the main coast road actually crossing or turning onto the wooden bridge. However, traffic coming from the wooden bridge / promenade road were waiting for their light to turn red for an absolute age to allow them merge unto the coast road. The 2nd car in wait was a Garda patrol car with two very disinterested looking member's of the force in its front seats. Their nonchalance at the nonchalance of the cyclist's buzzing past me as I waited patiently made me feel quite doubly eegit-y!

TheAnalyst_

I'd well believe that womans claims. Complete assholes that are most likely middle aged.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Right or wrong if I was cycling and a car driver decided (right or wrong) that they've right of way, I'm yielding every time!.

As it is I cross over when the roads are clear. At the old junction I'd dismount from the path onto the road and wait for the lights to go green before turning right towards the park (and the worse road surface in the city).

Interesting one this, must look closer.

Etc

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'd well believe that womans claims. Complete assholes that are most likely middle aged.

What a generalisation !

Doeshedare

Giancarlo Scrawny Chairlift wrote: »

Right or wrong if I was cycling and a car driver decided (right or wrong) that they've right of way, I'm yielding every time!.

As it is I cross over when the roads are clear. At the old junction I'd dismount from the path onto the road and wait for the lights to go green before turning right towards the park (and the worse road surface in the city).

Interesting one this, must look closer.

On your first point, I didnt really see him so I wasnt playing chicken, I wasnt hurtling along either and he wasnt that close when I did see him. There was a pedestrian crossing to my right at the same time (same direction and no I wasnt about to mow her down) and she looked startled when he beeped too.

Yeah I will be cycling in tomorrow am. I'll have a good look at what the set up is. I would of course normally notice traffic lights and I have been cycling this a couple of times a week and thinking that the setup is a bit vague.

And as for "Professionally-dressed cyclists.......that are most likely middle aged" I resemble that remark

arybvtcw0eolkf

Ok just home, and there IS a cycle light at the junction similar to the cycle lane lights on the Grand Canal. I'll upload a photo shortly.

I was cycling in company so I didn't have time to check to see if the lights are operational.

Doeshedare

I've just finished my commute Baldoyle to Southside and had a good look at the junction. On the way in I could see 2 strips of lights, one for bikes and 1 for pedestrians (I assume). They were not in operation. As I passed over the junction taking my cue from the main road light I looked back and saw the same set up going towards Howth but they were on and were red!

Being kind to myself, since I didn't notice them before I am thinking they are new (I have used that junction at least twice a week since it reopened) and maybe they are not fully operational or are only becoming operational. Or is there a good reason to have them working in one direction only?

Chuchote

Doeshedare wrote: »

I've just finished my commute Baldoyle to Southside and had a good look at the junction. On the way in I could see 2 strips of lights, one for bikes and 1 for pedestrians (I assume). They were not in operation. As I passed over the junction taking my cue from the main road light I looked back and saw the same set up going towards Howth but they were on and were red!

Being kind to myself, since I didn't notice them before I am thinking they are new (I have used that junction at least twice a week since it reopened) and maybe they are not fully operational or are only becoming operational. Or is there a good reason to have them working in one direction only?

Have you reported them?

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-road-maintenance-and-street-repair/repair-road-or-footpath

or

Faulty traffic lights, twisted signal heads, push button faults and push button audio faults can be reported to our traffic control centre 24hrs a day at Free phone 1800 29 39 49 (Note, charges may apply from mobile phones)

Other traffic issues/queries can be reported via e-mail to traffic@dublincity.ie

Doeshedare

I have now thanks via email

plodder

Chuchote wrote: »

Have you reported them?

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-road-maintenance-and-street-repair/repair-road-or-footpath

or

Faulty traffic lights, twisted signal heads, push button faults and push button audio faults can be reported to our traffic control centre 24hrs a day at Free phone 1800 29 39 49 (Note, charges may apply from mobile phones)

Other traffic issues/queries can be reported via e-mail to traffic@dublincity.ie

I took a look yesterday and they've installed new lights there, and I don't think they are commissioned yet. All the lights are off including the ones on the road. There were people operating manual signals there yesterday evening.

Shedite27

Doeshedare wrote: »

And as for "Professionally-dressed cyclists.......that are most likely middle aged" I resemble that remark

Freudian slip?

Doeshedare

Shedite27 wrote: »

Freudian slip?

No I like to think I was being witty

mr spuckler

coming in this morning there were 3 work vans partially blocking the cycle lane and 2 council vans completely blocking it beside the tram shelter.

i get that maintenance work needs to be done but it's getting very frustrating having these obstructions on the track almost every day.

Tenzor07

mr spuckler wrote: »

coming in this morning there were 3 work vans partially blocking the cycle lane and 2 council vans completely blocking it beside the tram shelter.
i get that maintenance work needs to be done but it's getting very frustrating having these obstructions on the track almost every day.

True! Yesterday evening at the junction with Mt.Prospect there was a large cement mixer truck as well as a mini-digger up on the cycle path, so it's still very much a construction site... And from the looks of the construction staffs faces they don't give a fiddlers about parking up on the cycle path!

Doeshedare

Last Friday they had the roadwork signs on the cyclepath, beside them further onto the path there was a cone and beside the cone and in the middle of the path there was a man in hi vis and hard hat. The men were paying no attention to anything on the cycle path. In fact they weren't paying attention to anything and I wondered what their purpose was. Loads out there again yesterday, whatever they are up to its very labour intensive

mr spuckler

Doeshedare wrote: »

Last Friday they had the roadwork signs on the cyclepath, beside them further onto the path there was a cone and beside the cone and in the middle of the path there was a man in hi vis and hard hat. The men were paying no attention to anything on the cycle path. In fact they weren't paying attention to anything and I wondered what their purpose was. Loads out there again yesterday, whatever they are up to its very labour intensive

same this morning, one of them loaded stuff onto his shoulder as i came along and just stepped back further into the lane without looking either way before walking in my direction and not once looking at me.

Doeshedare

No point in complaining, resistance is futile