S2S Cycleway - northside

mr spuckler

in a way it's not even their fault, the design has created so many foreseeable problems. they built what they were told to build, which is something that allows no flexibility or contingency when things go wrong.

the roadway is so tight that a Dublin Bus couldn't pass by the resurfacing machine on Monday evening and was backing up traffic both directions, with a massive tailback heading towards Howth.

NeedMoreGears

I saw a cyclist ahead of me yesterday sailing across the wooden bridge junction without looking in any direction - at least judging by the fact that their head didn't move. The right turning car had to brake to a stop (to be fair the car was moving quite slowly beforehand). Clearly neither of them saw each other until quite late - I'm not even sure the cyclist ever saw the car.

Its odd but to me it feels far less natural to have to yield at the wooden bridge than at the causeway further up. Maybe its because the causeway feels like a T-junction, whereas at the wooden bridge I feel like I'm still on the road. Regardless of whether it feels natural or not, paranoia is my friend at both these junctions and I always slow and look all around before crossing.

mr spuckler

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I saw a cyclist ahead of me yesterday sailing across the wooden bridge junction without looking in any direction - at least judging by the fact that their head didn't move. The right turning car had to brake to a stop (to be fair the car was moving quite slowly beforehand). Clearly neither of them saw each other until quite late - I'm not even sure the cyclist ever saw the car.

Its odd but to me it feels far less natural to have to yield at the wooden bridge than at the causeway further up. Maybe its because the causeway feels like a T-junction, whereas at the wooden bridge I feel like I'm still on the road. Regardless of whether it feels natural or not, paranoia is my friend at both these junctions and I always slow and look all around before crossing.

yeah i've seen a good few of those, it's almost like some cyclists don't expect cars to be crossing just because the traffic exiting the bridge has a red light.

and you could be right on the reason, the causeway road is also much wider and feels like cars could be coming at you much quicker than they could be at the wooden bridge junction.

mr spuckler

my new favourite here!

yesterday evening just after 6pm - ignore the jumping date & time bottom right as i used youtube's stabilisation update...

lads pushing the resurfacing machine down the roadway, cycle lane and footpath :pac:

lambayire

As a driver and occasional pedestrian on this stretch, I come here in peace.

These roadworks have been farcical over the past couple of years.
I felt for cyclists trying to get in and out of town on that road.
I respected the cyclists that were using the footpaths and the works were ongoing.
It made plenty of sense to me.

So Oirish that a spanking brand new road is already being dug up.

Whenever this stretch is finally completed, would it be fair to say that, between
Clontarf Garda Station and St. Fintan's school at the Sutton end, bikes should not feature
on the road? Obviously not including folk turning off at the various junctions along the way.

Chuchote

lambayire wrote: »

So Oirish that a spanking brand new road is already being dug up.

What masochistic inferiority complex is it that uses a misspelling of our nationality to sneer at Ireland and assume inefficiency is because we're Irish? These things happen in all countries.

lambayire

Sneer?

No. What has happened on that stretch of road in the last few years goes far beyond incompetent.

Tenzor07

lambayire wrote: »

Whenever this stretch is finally completed, would it be fair to say that, between
Clontarf Garda Station and St. Fintan's school at the Sutton end, bikes should not feature
on the road? Obviously not including folk turning off at the various junctions along the way.

Not at all, there's plenty of people who don't want to wait around just to cross the road...For example coming from Sutton Cross to the right turn for Baldoyle..

Also if there's a group of 4 or more people out training on bikes, it's far better to push along at 35kph on the road than a narrow cycle path filled with say kids on tricycles...

Chuchote

lambayire wrote: »

Sneer?

No. What has happened on that stretch of road in the last few years goes far beyond incompetent.

Yes, but if it happened in England, for instance, no English person would write "That's very Inglish". Incompetence happens in every country.

Chips Lovell

lambayire wrote: »

Whenever this stretch is finally completed, would it be fair to say that, between Clontarf Garda Station and St. Fintan's school at the Sutton end, bikes should not feature on the road? Obviously not including folk turning off at the various junctions along the way.

The cycle lane isn't mandatory.

mr spuckler

lambayire wrote: »

So Oirish that a spanking brand new road is already being dug up.

so is the new cycle lane :mad:
from the tram shelter to Bay restaurant is blocked off this morning because the surface has been dug up.

mrcheez

Chuchote wrote: »

What masochistic inferiority complex is it that uses a misspelling of our nationality to sneer at Ireland and assume inefficiency is because we're Irish? These things happen in all countries.

New road surfaces getting dug up a few days later happens with alarming regularity in Ireland (or Dublin at least).

cdaly_

I presume what's going on at the moment is the permanent road surface. Often times a temporary surface is laid and then replaced at a later date. Not sure of the reasons but I presume they are valid.

mr spuckler

cdaly_ wrote: »

I presume what's going on at the moment is the permanent road surface. Often times a temporary surface is laid and then replaced at a later date. Not sure of the reasons but I presume they are valid.

i don't think so, what went down was intended to be the permanent surface.

see below from clontarf.ie of a few weeks back.

The James Larkin Road/Clontarf Road was closed in 3 sections on a 24-hour basis for a total of eight weeks from 10th October until 3rd December 2016 for resurfacing works. These closures had a significant impact on residents, businesses and commuters. Residents and businesses then received a letter advising them of further road closures to repair defects in this resurfacing work. We met with Roadstone to get precise details of these works and shared this information on clontarf.ie. These works did not get the go-ahead from DCC and have now been delayed further. There is still no date for when the resurfacing repairs will begin.

mr spuckler

i've been waiting for that for a long while, nice tailwind most of the way along the coast path heading out of town this evening

very strong behind you on the alfie byrne road heading outbound!

arybvtcw0eolkf

mr spuckler wrote: »

i've been waiting for that for a long while, nice tailwind most of the way along the coast path heading out of town this evening

very strong behind you on the alfie byrne road heading outbound!

Yup, its been like that all week. Not the usual ball braker head wind or cross wind coming in off the bay

Mec-a-nic

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The cycle lane isn't mandatory.

I was cycling towards town with a full load of shopping the other day, and on the road as I was going to be making a right turn that isn't near any of the level gaps in the wall. A Garda motorbike coming the other direction flashed, beeped me and I was told to get onto the bike lane... I ignored him and off he went, but I would have relished the conversation as to why he thought I couldn't cycle on the road.

mr spuckler

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

I was cycling towards town with a full load of shopping the other day, and on the road as I was going to be making a right turn that isn't near any of the level gaps in the wall. A Garda motorbike coming the other direction flashed, beeped me and I was told to get onto the bike lane... I ignored him and off he went, but I would have relished the conversation as to why he thought I couldn't cycle on the road.

this can't be right, people don't spend money when out on their bikes :pac:

Rogue-Trooper

Holy Jasus those bike/ped lights at the wooden bridge take an age to go green don't they? Even when there's no traffic!

Moflojo

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Holy Jasus those bike/ped lights at the wooden bridge take an age to go green don't they? Even when there's no traffic!

They're also missing ground sensors for approaching bicycles which is a shocking design omission. I can't be 100% certain but I think almost every junction along the Grand Canal Cycle path has ground sensors for bikes?

Rogue-Trooper

Moflojo wrote: »

They're also missing ground sensors for approaching bicycles which is a shocking design omission.

Pushing the button doesn't seem to expedite it either!

Moflojo

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Pushing the button doesn't seem to expedite it either!

I agree, it seems to be a very slow rotation for pedestrian/cyclist light which is only going to result in more people on bikes/foot breaking the light. On any half-decent weekend the ratio of people on bikes/foot to people in cars is safely 5:1 if not higher.

Currently there are no built features to encourage vehicle drivers to slow down and treat that junction as if they're crossing the busiest pedestrian/cycling route in the city, if not the entire country. Cars turning off the main road onto the cul de sac toward Dollymount do so as if they're exiting an M50 junction. The corner radius should be much tighter, and there should possibly be some kind of zebra/pelican crossing.

S2S users should have a much, much higher priority than people driving to the feckin' beach!

PaulieC

Moflojo wrote: »

S2S users should have a much, much higher priority than people driving to the feckin' beach!

What ? Why ?

Moflojo

PaulieC wrote: »

What ? Why ?

Firstly, pedestrians are supposed have top priority in an urban environment, followed by cyclists, then public transport. That's not just my opinion, that's design policy according to the Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets.

Secondly, the Wooden Bridge is a dead end. People driving across it are only driving to the beach to go for a walk, go for a swim, or some other form of leisure activity. There is no reason for them to urgently need to get through the junction. None of the usual excuses for car-centric junction design apply, i.e. commuters, deliveries, going to important meetings, shopping, contributing more to the local economy than poverty-stricken people on foot/bikes/public transport.

odyssey06

Not saying the junction couldn't be improved but...

Aren't there a small number of cottages across the bridge? Are they still occupied?

Plus a golf course, which must generate some sort of economic activity... even if it's only handsake promising of future business deals

PaulieC

Moflojo wrote: »

Secondly, the Wooden Bridge is a dead end. People driving across it are only driving to the beach to go for a walk, go for a swim, or some other form of leisure activity. There is no reason for them to urgently need to get through the junction. None of the usual excuses for car-centric junction design apply, i.e. commuters, deliveries, going to important meetings, shopping, contributing more to the local economy than poverty-stricken people on foot/bikes/public transport.

I was more wondering why you think your journey is higher priority than someone else's , even if they are gong to the beach.

Moflojo

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not saying the junction couldn't be improved but...

Aren't there a small number of cottages across the bridge? Are they still occupied?

Plus a golf course, which must generate some sort of economic activity... even if it's only handsake promising of future business deals

I believe the cottages are occupied. If the people living in those cottages choose to drive (and it is a choice for most people) then they should not expect that their choice of transport mode will supersede the needs of S2S users.

Private gold club's needs do not supersede S2S users either.

Moflojo

PaulieC wrote: »

I was more wondering why you think your journey is higher priority than someone else's , even if they are gong to the beach.

The journey is irrelevant; it's the mode of transport that's important.

buffalo

Moflojo wrote: »

The journey is irrelevant; it's the mode of transport that's important.

I wouldn't say that - the significance of the road and route is important. If you are on a main road, you should not have to cede priority to a side road. That is what is happening here - the cycle path is a main route, and shouldn't have to cede priority for a more minor access route.

odyssey06

Moflojo wrote: »

I believe the cottages are occupied. If the people living in those cottages choose to drive (and it is a choice for most people) then they should not expect that their choice of transport mode will supersede the needs of S2S users.
Private gold club's needs do not supersede S2S users either.

What if the S2S users are on a weekend leisure cycle? Why does that take priority over someone in a car wanting to get to a beach for leisure? Or someone accessing their home?
Should we have different priorities during the week v weekend?

It might be reasonable to say that S2S is a main cycling commuter route, and it should have commuting priority over cars who wish to cross the bridge via side road but...
One of the difficulties is that the Coast Road is also a main commuter route, frequented by 130 bus route. If there was more space at the junction, you could keep a green light for cars, buses going towards town and keep it red for any wishing to turn left onto Bull Island.
There does not appear to be any priority difference between the cars exiting the bridge and the cycle path.