S2S Cycleway - northside

ED E

mrcheez wrote: »

It sounds like a terrible incident but I'm surprised that there was no mention of it on RTE news this morning (the only traffic incident mentioned was the one in Limerick).

From what I've heard the driver had a seizure or something similar, then the deceased was pushed into the sea which is why the entire stretch was being searched (possibly they were pulled out by the current).

Pretty shocking. I had passed that point 10 minutes earlier and potentially had even passed the pedestrian in question.

Not plausible tbh. You don't seize then drive perfectly down a knife edge between wall and sea for more than half a click. At speed.

mrcheez

ED E wrote: »

Not plausible tbh. You don't seize then drive perfectly down a knife edge between wall and sea for more than half a click. At speed.

Is that what happened? Where did you read that?

I was under the impression the car incident was only a small section, but the body being washed out to sea was the cause of the 1km lockdown and search.

Someone on independent.ie said they saw the van turned over, as if it had flipped when it careened off the road.

mr spuckler

mrcheez wrote: »

I was under the impression the car incident was only a small section, but the body being washed out to sea was the cause of the 1km lockdown and search.

Van joined at Kilbarrack road junction, travelled towards Blackbanks. Struck the jogger after maybe 300m and then continued on past Howth rd junction to where it stopped, estimate travelled 600m total on the cycle lane.

Someone on independent.ie said they saw the van turned over, as if it had flipped when it careened off the road.

The rumours around this are bananas. The van didn't flip, I passed by it at 9:30ish last night, upright with no damage to sides or top of the van.

Is that what happened? Where did you read that?

The path there is barely wider than the van, yet it was driven that far along the path, with a stone wall on the right and steep drop-off into the water on the left, for around 600m. This is simply not possible if the driver was incapacitated in such a way, not to mind even making the turn onto the track in the first place.

raheny red

The van must have entered at the bottom of the Kilbarrack Road. It travelled for c. 1km. It was cordoned off near the bottom of the Howth Road. It didn't flip over.

The driver hasn't been arrested according to the Irish Times.

mrcheez

mr spuckler wrote: »

Van joined at Kilbarrack road junction, travelled towards Blackbanks. Struck the jogger after maybe 300m and then continued on past Howth rd junction to where it stopped, estimate travelled 600m total on the cycle lane.

Got a link, or where did you get this info?

Shedite27

mrcheez wrote: »

Is that what happened? Where did you read that?

mrcheez wrote: »

Got a link, or where did you get this info?

Link here says "Van driven 1km on Dublin walkway before fatally injuring jogger"
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/van-driven-1km-on-dublin-walkway-before-fatally-injuring-jogger-1.4193893

mrcheez

Shedite27 wrote: »

Link here says "Van driven 1km on Dublin walkway before fatally injuring jogger"
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/van-driven-1km-on-dublin-walkway-before-fatally-injuring-jogger-1.4193893

Cheers, my Google-fu was failing me, all I could find was:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jogger-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-dublin-1.4193127

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/live-emergency-vehicles-scene-serious-17864687

etc

mr spuckler

mrcheez wrote: »

Got a link, or where did you get this info?

I was down there last night around 9:30 when it was still a very active scene at that stage.

This morning, you could see the chalk outlines of evidence on the track opposite the new apartment development, where small bits of the front of the van (glass etc) still remain from the collision. This is where the main activity was last night, including a rig into the water which I now guess was for recovering the body.

The van was a few hundred metres along from here, just past the bottom of the Howth rd junction, slightly up on the grass. This morning you could see the wheel tracks from it & the tow truck on the grass there. There are also photos circulating of the van stopped there last night.

The cycle track was sealed off from the Kilbarrack rd junction to just beyond where the van was stopped. I guess this was all considered part of the crime scene.

buffalo

mr spuckler wrote: »

The path there is barely wider than the van, yet it was driven that far along the path, with a stone wall on the right and steep drop-off into the water on the left, for around 600m. This is simply not possible if the driver was incapacitated in such a way, not to mind even making the turn onto the track in the first place.

Some diabetic episodes can be mistaken for drunkenness. It's not outside the realms of possibility that someone could be confused enough in that state to drive onto the track thinking it was a road, and then drive along it as if it were a road.

It's horrific whatever the explanation.

mr spuckler

buffalo wrote: »

Some diabetic episodes can be mistaken for drunkenness. It's not outside the realms of possibility that someone could be confused enough in that state to drive onto the track thinking it was a road, and then drive along it as if it were a road.

It's horrific whatever the explanation.

You may be right and my knowledge of the effects of a diabetic episode are just second hand from people I've spoken to this morning.

It begs the question for me that if he was simply confused, would he not have stopped when he hit the woman or if he was so impaired as to not have realised then he wouldn't have been able to control the van sufficiently to not crash up to that point. That's where my confusion about this lies but I'm aware that my confusion is irrelevant!

It really is horrendous and whatever the cause doesn't change the immediate outcome for the poor woman and her family

cdaly_

mr spuckler wrote: »

if he was so impaired as to not have realised then he wouldn't have been able to control the van sufficiently to not crash up to that point.

The mechanical work of driving a vehicle is largely automatic and works from muscle memory. This would include steering along a path. OTOH, observation of danger/obstacles would require more conscious volition.

magicbastarder

all - probably best to knock the speculation about the cause on the head; i know it's not malicious in any way, but we usually don't allow speculation in deaths like this for reasons which are hopefully understood.

mr spuckler

Of course and apologies for banging on so much about it.

LennoxR

I'm just amazed there weren't more casualties if the van drove on that path for 1 km. Horrendous news. RIP to the poor woman and condolences to her family.

Cionn

I do not want to speculate on this tragedy as its horrendous for the family. I wonder if now we should bring the question about vehicular access to the pathway (not just in raheny/kilbarrack) to the fore. The council should be the only vehicular access to these areas and the access points are not too many, and could be controlled e.g. via ram bar type devices.

I see the access points at The Baths in Clontarf as a massive concern personally, I have been nearly been taken out there a number of times. Perhaps its time to consider the next level of safety for the pedestrian and cycle users.

Effects

Cionn wrote: »

I see the access points at The Baths in Clontarf as a massive concern personally, I have been nearly been taken out there a number of times. Perhaps its time to consider the next level of safety for the pedestrian and cycle users.

The only thing that matters at the baths is getting as many customers in as possible, not safety.

Cionn

Effects wrote: »

The only thing that matters at the baths is getting as many customers in as possible, not safety.

It's on us too if we do nothing about it. They are completely dodgy there, no concerns about breeching planning. Again we have a choice to do something or nothing

Effects

Cionn wrote: »

It's on us too if we do nothing about it. They are completely dodgy there, no concerns about breeching planning. Again we have a choice to do something or nothing

Loads of people have no problems with breaching planning regulations.

Construction professionals see no problem with breaking the rules when you are allowed to apply retrospectively for permission, often with a better chance of getting it. They blame the system.

BrianHenryIE

mrcheez wrote: »

What are the bets they stick a hazardous sign right smack in the middle of that cycle lane kink as they did opposite the bus depot ?

I maybe mentioned it in this thread before, but a friend of mine's collarbone was broken after he hit one of those poles at the bus garage.

magicbastarder

why are there three entrances to car parks opposite the bus depot? one is obviously for dublin bus staff, but are the other two public parking? if so, why two?

neris

magicbastarder wrote: »

why are there three entrances to car parks opposite the bus depot? one is obviously for dublin bus staff, but are the other two public parking? if so, why two?

Public parking and there's a slip way used there by the yacht club

garrettod

Why am I regularly seeing cyclists on the actual Clontarf Road, or up on the footpath across the road from the side where the cycle lane is?

Am I missing something here, that explains why people are cycling, but not using the cycle lane?

brocbrocach

I've asked them and they tell me it's because they have a bad attitude. They hate the Law. They love breakin the rules.

RobertFoster

How come people are driving near the M50 but not actually on the M50? It's a perfectly good motorway, paid for by the tax payers...

Effects

RobertFoster wrote: »

How come people are driving near the M50 but not actually on the M50?

I think it's because there aren't any footpaths on the M50 to drive their cars on.

Leroy42

garrettod wrote: »

Why am I regularly seeing cyclists on the actual Clontarf Road, or up on the footpath across the road from the side where the cycle lane is?

Am I missing something here, that explains why people are cycling, but not using the cycle lane?

There are a number of reasons. If a cyclist is taking a turn off the Clontarf Road it makes little sense to cycle on the path, then stop and wait for a break in traffic.

Depending on the time of day, the cyclepath can be full of walkers, joggers, kids on bikes, people standing on it waiting for buses etc. At times it is simply safer, and quicker, to use the road.

Group of cyclists. If the group is large, it can sometimes, although it would appear the opposite, safer to be on the road.

Access and egress points. Say I join from Hollybrook Road and want to turn onto Laurences Road, it makes no sense to cross over 4 lanes of traffic, cross the grass, join the cycletrack, then get back off and recross 4 more lanes.

mr spuckler

Leroy42 wrote: »

There are a number of reasons. If a cyclist is taking a turn off the Clontarf Road it makes little sense to cycle on the path, then stop and wait for a break in traffic.

Depending on the time of day, the cyclepath can be full of walkers, joggers, kids on bikes, people standing on it waiting for buses etc. At times it is simply safer, and quicker, to use the road.

Group of cyclists. If the group is large, it can sometimes, although it would appear the opposite, safer to be on the road.

Access and egress points. Say I join from Hollybrook Road and want to turn onto Laurences Road, it makes no sense to cross over 4 lanes of traffic, cross the grass, join the cycletrack, then get back off and recross 4 more lanes.

You and your sensible answers :pac:

Mercian Pro

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The planning reference number is 2355/20 and objections can be made up to 31 March. No drawings online yet but they should be uploaded soon.
http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2355/20&theTabNo=1&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=4644991%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=5402042%26StartIndex=11%26SortOrder=APNID:DESC%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=4644991%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

The planning drawings have finally been uploaded for the proposed alterations at the Baths and can be seen at the above link. Looks like the cyclepath is 3.0m wide. I presume the kink at the entrance is to allow cars to fully pull in off the road/bus-lane before (hopefully) checking for crossing cyclists. Signs here and at the exit indicating that cyclists have right of way would be a useful addition.

Ferris

They need a similar facility on the exit. Cars trying to exit across the cycleway / path / buslane and two lanes of traffic is an accident waiting to happen. They should go to one decent entry / exit with the cycleway moved away from the road

brocbrocach

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The planning drawings have finally been uploaded for the proposed alterations at the Baths and can be seen at the above link. Looks like the cyclepath is 3.0m wide. I presume the kink at the entrance is to allow cars to fully pull in off the road/bus-lane before (hopefully) checking for crossing cyclists. Signs here and at the exit indicating that cyclists have right of way would be a useful addition.

I haven't measured it on the ground but 3m seems too much for the path as is and isn't commensurate to the other distances in the drawings. I doubt the path is seven/eight feet at most points. Is that accurate?
Apart from that, I don't want to spend 30e to fall at the first technical hurdle. Is there a solid ground for appealing does anyone know? Can someone with a background in the sector give us an effective grounds for a mass or individual appeal (it's a disgrace but tell us why in language that will work).
Unfortunately, a random assortment of people railing against injustice won't make headway against a professional, well-connected machine without some organization. I'd appreciate any informed guidance on how to maximise our voice because i'd really, really like it if the cyclists didn't lose this time.