Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

PucaMama

Calhoun wrote: »

It's not i was mainly talking to the scenario being painted by klaz. However i would say that disenfranchised males arent limited to religious extremists, you also have the rise in crime in Ireland and the many no-go areas in Dublin ect.

None of those situations are because of feminism either.

kunst nugget

maybe

Calhoun wrote: »

It's not i was mainly talking to the scenario being painted by klaz. However i would say that disenfranchised males arent limited to religious extremists, you also have the rise in crime in Ireland and the many no-go areas in Dublin ect.

You seem to be whipping yourself up into a tizzy there and looking for any excuse you can tenuously find to blame feminism for the downfall of society. I don't think any of the things you're mentioning there can be really ascribed to feminism - I'd imagine feminism isn't really a hot topic in Moyross or Sheriff Street.

ligerdub

Yeah agreed, let's drop that one and move on.

One eyed Jack

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

You'd wonder where this sort of nonsense stops though. Say for example everything is evened up regarding gender in every university in Ireland. But now there's no representation of trans people. Maybe when that's fixed someone might notice that the vast majority of people on equally represented boards are white. A few campaigns might get more coloured people in to sort that out, but is there enough LGBT representation there now? How will muslim and jewish people feel about a predominantly christian board? And why aren't disabled people fairly included in all of this?

The simplest answer to that is - it doesn't stop, and it'll never stop, because a lot of this identity politics stuff really doesn't apply in Ireland. It's more applicaple to the UK and the US, and it's being imported here to try and point out "systematic, problematic" issues where really there aren't any. From the Athena SWAN FAQ -

"What do we mean by ‘intersectionality’?

By intersectionality we mean people’s identities and social positions being shaped by several factors at the same time, creating unique experiences and perspectives. These factors include among others, age, disability, gender, race, religion and sexuality.

For example, the experiences of, and outcomes within, higher education will be very different for a Black woman compared to a white woman. In practice, intersectionality is less about bringing two different factors together, eg older people and disabled people; and more about considering the experience of older disabled people, people at the ‘intersection’ of older age and disability."

The above sort of tokenism reminds me of a conference I was at last year regarding the future of education in Ireland, and one of the speakers was from the UK, and she was giving it welly about the lack of women and BME at third level, which was definitely more relevant in a UK context. It's as though she hadn't even thought of her audience and tailored her presentation accordingly, when the room was filled with Casper white Irish women and only a handful of men.

Now granted it was a teacher training college so I didn't expect much variance in the audience, but that didn't stop this woman going on to talk about how there weren't enough women in STEM, and how it was mostly socially awkward men (I'd lost the will to listen at this stage), before she moved on to the topic of 'unconscious bias', without so much as stopping for a breather to spot the irony.

red ears

Calhoun wrote: »

A part of feminism may not stop with their push but as can be seen from allot of numbers feminism is losing allot of support amongst woman as they abandon the third wave of feminism.

It probably doesn't matter if most women don't support them. The powers that be are listening to the ones shouting and are making decisions that help their cause. It's going to take a serious change of tac from the media for some balance to be brought in. The media have so much influence. As it is tho the media are very much in the feminist camp.

ligerdub

Perhaps the socially awkward part makes them better at the pure sciences.

If you look at the greats of science, many of them were bordering on the autistic. Newton and Da Vinci for example. I appreciate I may well have walked into a "QI" trap there and perhaps I've spouted bollocks there, and perhaps there is no benefit of social awkwardness/scientific success, but there might be something to it.

This tends to be a male trait, so it may also be an explanation as to why men are more inclined towards in, and also why the we need more women in stem argument falls to pieces.

One eyed Jack

ligerdub wrote: »

Perhaps the socially awkward part makes them better at the pure sciences.

If you look at the greats of science, many of them were bordering on the autistic. Newton and Da Vinci for example. I appreciate I may well have walked into a "QI" trap there and perhaps I've spouted bollocks there, and perhaps there is no benefit of social awkwardness/scientific success, but there might be something to it.

This tends to be a male trait, so it may also be an explanation as to why men are more inclined towards in, and also why the we need more women in stem argument falls to pieces.

Perhaps?

Well, at least you were self-aware enough to acknowledge that what you were suggesting was questionable! The woman who was giving the presentation possessed no such self-awareness when she made her throwaway "amirite girls?" remark. I could only give her the benefit of the doubt that she was trying to connect with her audience. The thing is though, to follow her logic to it's flawed conclusion would mean that rather than encouraging more young women into STEM, it would actually turn young people of both genders off the idea.

The idea of the socially awkward savante is more of a Hollywood trope than it is a reality, and recent research suggests that rather than previously held ideas about the prevalence of males on the ASD spectrum, there are more females presenting as on the spectrum than previous research had suggested, so the idea that socially awkward behaviours and attitudes are more commonly male traits that correlate with the idea that this is what makes the hard sciences more attractive to them? It's... a bit out there!

In saying that though (and I know it's only anecdotal, small sample size), but I was at the Young Scientist Exhibition in January, I go every year, but this year I have to say I was disappointed with the exhibition. The numbers of young boys and girls were fairly evenly split across all the sciences, but the largest category by far this year was the 'Social and Behavioural' sciences category, with some of what could only be described as a poor standard of projects on display.

Calhoun

kunst nugget wrote: »

You seem to be whipping yourself up into a tizzy there and looking for any excuse you can tenuously find to blame feminism for the downfall of society. I don't think any of the things you're mentioning there can be really ascribed to feminism - I'd imagine feminism isn't really a hot topic in Moyross or Sheriff Street.

You seem to be jumping to some conclusions there, you want to come down off your horse and have a discussion about the matter at hand. I was talking about a scenario painted of males being disenfranchised, I didnt say it could be ascribed to feminism but the more any part of society becomes disenfranchised the more they look to other means to get ahead.

silverharp

When I went to DCU the Applied Physics guys more often then not were involved in mountaineering etc. Quite an outdoorsie bunch with a wicked sense of humour. At the end of the day if you are going to get on in a science field you are going to have to be a people person and have a business mind. You will be expected to manage people and a budget and be able to argue a case for what you want your people to do.

fly_agaric

One eyed Jack wrote: »

it'll never stop.

Alot of peoples' careers and livelihoods are built on the back of keeping a watchful eye out for the next ism; actually having a fixed goal would not be good for that, a moving target is far better:pac:

fly_agaric

silverharp wrote: »

When I went to DCU the Applied Physics guys more often then not were involved in mountaineering etc. Quite an outdoorsie bunch with a wicked sense of humour. At the end of the day if you are going to get on in a science field you are going to have to be a people person and have a business mind. You will be expected to manage people and a budget and be able to argue a case for what you want your people to do.

True you certainly can't lead a team/head up a research lab in a university science or engineering dept. without being well able to present, be very outgoing when necessary (even if its not really in your nature) and beg for funding in a really convincing way.

My memory is the real stereotype nerds were located in the fields like theoretical physics, pure mathematics, computer science and not in the experimental science you are referring to (applied physics).
Now that I think of it, it is also possible I suppose for someone in such fields to still work alone or with far fewer collaborators than in experimental science.

silverharp

the lack of an inner voice of the person who wrote this article and the short sightedness of the mother.

Carlos Orange

No

silverharp wrote: »

the lack of an inner voice of the person who wrote this article and the short sightedness of the mother.

Not sure I would call having your kids 5 days a week being a 50/50 mum.

JRant

The language is quite telling, "having to divide time with the children equally with exes". Exes??? Not fathers.

Armchair Andy

Bulmers lost me as a customer with that "percentages" advertisement on the TV. Men made look to be real thickos in it.
If that's the demographic (middle aged and younger male)they're aiming for they've gone the wrong way about it.

silverharp

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Bulmers lost me as a customer with that "percentages" advertisement on the TV. Men made look to be real thickos in it.
If that's the demographic (middle aged and younger male)they're aiming for they've gone the wrong way about it.

the advert seem to be marketing itself as a young person's drink for sure and yeah made fun of the older "uncool" man who is clearly at the wrong party. otherwise making fun of the self absorbed twit which is ok and the one about laughing along when you hadn't heard what the gag was I thought was funny, that happens to everyone. I don't think its an own goal of an avert assuming they are happy with making the ad feel like Bulmers its not for anyone over 35.

Armchair Andy

Maybe so regarding the target audience but even still. I'm over 35 so job done on their behalf :-)
You've made me see the error of my ways, they just don't want my custom simple as.

kunst nugget

maybe

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Maybe so regarding the target audience but even still. I'm over 35 so job done on their behalf :-)
You've made me see the error of my ways, they just don't want my custom simple as.

Anyone over 35 still drinking Bulmers needs to get their taste buds tested…

silverharp

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Maybe so regarding the target audience but even still. I'm over 35 so job done on their behalf :-)
You've made me see the error of my ways, they just don't want my custom simple as.

if you want a comically bad p1ssing off your consumer base advert, have a look at a Heineken advert with the soundtrack "I need a hero" I think it was just a US advert, it was like they got a bunch of feminists to put the advert together

Carlos Orange

No

silverharp wrote: »

if you want a comically bad p1ssing off your consumer base advert, have a look at a Heineken advert with the soundtrack "I need a hero" I think it was just a US advert, it was like they got a bunch of feminists to put the advert together

I think the ad makes a good point that heroes don't drink Heineken.

Anyone got a link to the Bulmers ad being referenced?
I did a quick google but came up dry.

silverharp

I think the ad makes a good point that heroes don't drink Heinlein.

Anyone got a link to the Bulmers ad being referenced?
I did a quick google but came up dry.

lol! I don't see it on Youtube



On a different front , Australia seems to have gone full SJW, Im pretty sure they are only talking about boys here. I feel sorry for any kids if there parents are in the dark about this.

https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview/status/847051610220089344

Armchair Andy

kunst nugget wrote:

Anyone over 35 still drinking Bulmers needs to get their taste buds tested…

Jesus I loved a pint of it with ice on a hot summers day.

Pawwed Rig

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Jesus I loved a pint of it with ice on a hot summers day.

Me too. The pint bottles were a great invention

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

Anyone over 35 still drinking Bulmers needs to get their taste buds tested…

I'm a smoker, so maybe that explains it. It's a taste that always reminds me of home.

red ears

This is a crazy example of sexism against men. An English Professor, Dennis Gouws runs a class called 'men in literature'. The dean of his department Anne Herzog took issue with this and is in the process of firing Dennis. Even though the same university has a women in literature class.

From the article

'But in June 2015, Herzog wrote to him, demanding that he revise the course because an unnamed student had complained about its content because it dealt with men in literature. Since that was the title of the course, the content of the syllabus, and the substance of the class, it is a bit perplexing that Herzog saw merit in the complaint, but so she did.

Gouws attempted to hold his ground. His professional life at Springfield College, however, has been in jeopardy ever since.'

http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/29/springfield-college-tries-oust-professor-teaching-men-literature/

silverharp

so much for the regressive feminists that only exist in 1's and zeros

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/this-plymouth-university-student-is-fighting-for-men-s-rights/story-30236815-detail/story.html

A Plymouth University student has been denied the chance to set up a "men's rights" forum - because they do not suffer discrimination.

Will Styles, 21, says there is a women's forum on campus but no equivalent space for male students to seek advice and guidance.

He applied to set up such a platform, but the University of Plymouth Students' Union (UPSU) said equal opportunities legislation only applies to groups which have suffered "historic and ongoing discrimination", adding "those groups do not include men".


Will, a third year architecture student, said: "I spent the last year and a bit collecting signatures and writing to the board of trustees.

"Then I referenced the university's equal opportunities policy, which is based on the equalities act. I felt they were denying opportunities to a group based on their gender.

"They said the policy was not written with men in mind. That sent me through the roof.

"On the most basic level it's about academic representation. The number of men in education has been declining since the 1990s, particularly in subjects like nursing.

"Then there are campus issues like men's mental health and male suicide. There is not a lot happening on campus for that, or for sexual harassment of men or false sexual harassment accusations."


The petition attracted 220 signatures, but UPSU says it stands by its decision.

Will said: "When did it become about who has the worst issues? Why don't we help all people? When did it become a competition about who has it worse?

"That's not how equality or equal opportunities works. Even if men only had one single issue, why would we not want to help them?"

Fellow student Will Mason says he is supporting the cause.

"There should be a men's forum for the same reason there should be a women's forum: there should be a dedicated group of people facilitating a place for issues and concerns facing those from a certain sex," he said.

"These include issues such as the shockingly high male suicide and depression rates, False sexual assault accusations, and rising gender employment inequality."


In a written response to Will Styles, a students' union spokesman said: "The UPSU trustee board noted that references in the UPSU constitution to equal opportunities and the UPSU equal opportunities policy must be read in the context of the relevant equal opportunities legislation.


"That legislation, both in its initial form and as subsequently amended, is specifically designed to address equal opportunities for groups which have suffered historic and ongoing discrimination.

"Those groups did not, and do not, include men (other than in the context of equal pay, which is a qualitatively different issue.)

"As a consequence, the UPSU trustee board does not consider that the fact that the UEC did not vote in favour to establish a men's forum was in breach of the UPSU constitution or equal opportunities policy.

"Nor does the board consider that this was an act of discrimination, for the reasons stated above."

This week a UPSU spokesman told The Herald: "UPSU's trustee board stands by the decision made.

"Further to our written reply, representatives personally met with Will regarding this matter and clearly explained the democratic process he needs to undertake if he wishes to take the idea of a men's forum back to the union council."

Carlos Orange

No

silverharp wrote: »

so much for the regressive feminists that only exist in 1's and zeros

Not too surprising. Modern day equality isn't about treating people equally any more.

That's Blatant discrimination. Regardless of their reasons, if there is a forum for women, then logically, there should be a forum for men (if there is the support in the student body). Otherwise, how can there be any claim of equality?

Utterly disgraceful.

It puts me in mind of the outcry against any male only clubs, which were shut down or made open to women, and then, how female only clubs were then opened.. which men cannot join.

I'm getting to the end of my patience with this kind of behavior. I'm off to find any reasonable groups/associations seeking to balance this very biased "equality" drive. Time to start making noise, I think.

Pawwed Rig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It puts me in mind of the outcry against any male only clubs, which were shut down or made open to women, and then, how female only clubs were then opened.. which men cannot join.

We have had a number of complaints over the years about the existence of a forum called the Gentlemens Club

silverharp

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We have had a number of complaints over the years about the existence of a forum called the Gentlemens Club

seriously? for wind up purposes you should get a male only sub sub forum, it will fry their minds worrying about what the patriarchy is cooking up absent female oversight

Pat Mustard

silverharp wrote: »

for wind up purposes you should get a male only sub sub forum, it will fry their minds worrying about what the patriarchy is cooking up absent female oversight

:pac:

The Yorkie Thread. Guaranteed not to last for very long.

kiddums

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We have had a number of complaints over the years about the existence of a forum called the Gentlemens Club

Seriously? I wonder how many complaints The Ladies Lounge have gotten?

Actually, iirc was that forum not private at some point when this one was open for all to see?

Wibbs

maybe

kiddums wrote: »

Seriously? I wonder how many complaints The Ladies Lounge have gotten?

Having modded the place for a long time, I can tell you quite the few and regularly.

py2006

Why were there complaints against the Gentlemens Club?

__Alex__

silverharp wrote: »

so much for the regressive feminists that only exist in 1's and zeros

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/this-plymouth-university-student-is-fighting-for-men-s-rights/story-30236815-detail/story.html

That's insane! :eek:

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We have had a number of complaints over the years about the existence of a forum called the Gentlemens Club

Wasn't there quite robust opposition to tLL at one stage also? There certainly seems to be a lot of issues with it aorund the 2011 mark. I think with any gendered forum, there's going to be a small number of people taking the hump.

Blue Badger

Wibbs wrote: »

Having modded the place for a long time, I can tell you quite the few and regularly.

This is just ridiculous!

kiddums

Wibbs wrote: »

Having modded the place for a long time, I can tell you quite the few and regularly.

Well I guess that not so bad then. At least both forums have had complaints about their existence, so it can't exactly be classed as sexism in either case.

LostinBlanch

maybe

There's an interesting article in the Guardian about Laura Kipnis , a professor who wrote about Title IX, the federal staute in the States that is driving the current rape culture paranoia on US campuses. The one where the accused are denied any legal representation or information about their charges until they turn up, so can not prepare any defense!

Of course, writing about this means that 3rd wave feminists turned on her.

“The other week, I gave a talk at Wellesley [a private, liberal women’s arts college in Massachusetts],” she says, when we talk on Skype (sitting at her desk, she is by turns thoughtful, angry and, sometimes, slightly gleeful). “When I was there, it went fine. There was a great discussion, and I went out to dinner with a group of students. But a group of women made a video denouncing me before I even arrived – they attacked me for being a white feminist – and afterwards six faculty members at Wellesley wrote an email [to their colleagues] saying, in effect, that I shouldn’t have been invited to speak and that students need to be protected from views that are injurious to them.” The letter in question was posted on the website of Fire (the Foundation of Individual Rights in Education). As ridiculous as it is, it makes for sobering reading. Among other things, its signatories lament the fact that so-called controversial speakers negatively impact students by forcing them to “invest time and energy in rebutting the speakers’ arguments”.

The article ends with comparing this hysteria to the Salem Witch Trials, but to me it looks like self appointed student groups are acting like Mao's Red Guards in the Cultural Revolution. Trying to cow professors and academics into submission for fear of losing their jobs, or worse.

H3llR4iser

kiddums wrote: »

Well I guess that not so bad then. At least both forums have had complaints about their existence, so it can't exactly be classed as sexism in either case.

Yeah, although...let's say that in my experience the "opposite gender" concept is not welcome on one of them as much as it is on the other.

silverharp

:mad:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4381724/Widower-accused-PAEDOPHILE-Travelodge-staff.html

Widower staying with his own daughter, 13, is accused of being a PAEDOPHILE by Travelodge staff and interviewed by police all because he booked a double room
Staff asked Craig Darwell, 46, to show ID for his daughter Millie, 13, at check in
He showed images of them together when she was a baby but they called police
Mr Darwell, who lost wife ten years ago, and Millie were questioned separately
Millie was 'distraught' and left in floods of tears after interview with the officer


A widower who lost his wife to cancer was accused of being a paedophile by Travelodge staff because he booked a double room for him and his daughter.
Craig Darwell, 46, was taking Millie, 13, to visit Thorpe Park and was forced to book the double room in Chertsey, Surrey, because there were no others available.
But when he checked in, suspicious staff demanded that he show them his daughter's ID.
Mr Darwell, who lost his wife to leukaemia when Millie was just four, explained that he did not have ID for his daughter and instead showed staff pictures of them together when she was a baby.
But even after seeing them, staff called the police and he and his daughter were forced into separate rooms and interviewed by a police officer.

Mr Darwell, who felt 'knotted inside' after the accusation, said his daughter was 'distraught' and refused to leave the room after the ordeal.
'My little girl was in her room crying her eyes out when we were supposed to be going out for tea for a special weekend,' he told MailOnline.

Sleepy

Presumably she'll be getting a very nice present for her next birthday since Dad should be coming into a nice settlement soon?

silverharp

Sleepy wrote: »

Presumably she'll be getting a very nice present for her next birthday since Dad should be coming into a nice settlement soon?

could be, I think I'd sue in that situation, its the worst thing you can accuse someone of . If the hotel wanted to cover themselves they should say that children should have ID or proof of relationship to the adult. the father was helpful at the desk by his account so that should have been the end of it.
Hope the idiot staff member is sacked as well

Sleepy

There'd be no thinking about it for me. I'd be sueing for everything my solicitor could think of throwing at them: defamation, emotional distress etc.

Pawwed Rig

Damn right I would sue. There are men that have lost their kids for similar accusations.

Suing is the only consequence these businesses ever face.

ligerdub

It's obviously awful for the family.

Having said that in situations where there was a genuine kidnapping or what have you then there would be all sorts of hullabaloo about the hotel turning a blind eye to "obvious crimes" or being soft on ethics.

In situations like this it's the path of least resistance, and we know full well that men are the easiest targets.

py2006

No questions or suspicions if it was mother and son...

__Alex__

silverharp wrote: »

:mad:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4381724/Widower-accused-PAEDOPHILE-Travelodge-staff.html

Jesus H Christ.

Don't these people realise that if it was an abduction they were dealing with, you'd be able to tell from the behaviour of the adult and the child? Can't they use their fucking discretion?

And yes, if it was a woman and child, she wouldn't be suspected at all.

iptba

silverharp wrote: »

seriously? for wind up purposes you should get a male only sub sub forum, it will fry their minds worrying about what the patriarchy is cooking up absent female oversight

I've just noticed there is a female-only private sub forum on boards ...

Pawwed Rig

iptba wrote: »

I've just noticed there is a female-only private sub forum on boards ...

Is that the Ladies Lounge Private? It was set up to arrange meetups that wouldn't be crashed. I doubt it is used very much anymore

If men wanted their own private forum, I'm sure we could get one. Think the women's one was used frequently, but it doesn't seem like it's as big as it was.