Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

silverharp

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm a manager in a female dominated operation. The few male staff I have do all the heavy lifting and frequently end up with strains up to and including hernias. We try to hire more men but of course this has to be done on the QT.

male or female it shouldnt injure you , your company is probably breaking health and safety regs...... i did the course :pac:

is there any way to highlight this or make the female staff do their share?

PeterParker957

silverharp wrote: »

male or female it shouldnt injure you , your company is probably breaking health and safety regs...... i did the course :pac:

is there any way to highlight this or make the female staff do their share?

I'm female (just for full disclosure!!) and not being "girly" (no manicures, don't dress like I'm in a Vogue cover shoot etc) I have actually been asked by other women to get stationery etc from presses for them so they don't break a nail.

Seriously!!

Triceratops Ballet

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm a manager in a female dominated operation. The few male staff I have do all the heavy lifting and frequently end up with strains up to and including hernias. We try to hire more men but of course this has to be done on the QT.

I've seen a few job ads recently where one of the requirements is the ability to lift 15-20kg would it be possible to alter the job specs to highlight the fact that heavy lifting is a requirement, and emphasise to the interviewers that this is a real actual requirement.
In terms of time and productivity lost because of injury it should be a no brainer when it comes to hiring that candidates should be able to move the loads required (and do it safely!)

backspin.

A woman I work with took on some extra work to boost her experience. It happens that she gets deliveries related to this work and she has begun asking me and another lad to carry the boxes up for her. They aren't particularly heavy either. She is a nice woman so I'm not kicking up a fuss just yet. But it is annoying.

suicide_circus

Manual handling certs are all up to date!

As for specifying load weights at recruitment stage, can you imagine trying to reprimand or manage out a woman because she can't lift the weights she said she could at interview? You'd be crucified.

Triceratops Ballet

suicide_circus wrote: »

Manual handling certs are all up to date!

As for specifying load weights at recruitment stage, can you imagine trying to reprimand or manage out a woman because she can't lift the weights she said she could at interview? You'd be crucified.

Well then that's a failure of the interview process, you ask someone to demo they can do it, there and then!
Skills demos are an integral part of interview, and really easy to judge. There'd be no drama, as long as it was an expectation on the male applicants too and they'd be dismissed if they were unable to move the relevant loads.
We have a skills demo (not box lifting though) section of the interview process where I work and if you fail it we don't hire you!

suicide_circus

Yep the interview process is weak no doubt. Problem is very few men apply so we take what we can get.

py2006

Thats quite common in the work place. Usually no big deal but in the current climate it's difficult not to see the double standard.

PeterParker957

For double standards you really only have to look at a hen night.

iptba

This message has been retweeted over 100,000 times and liked over 300,000 times:

https://twitter.com/edennnnnn/status/976556192318173184

I find the logic questionable and dislike males in general being tarred with such crimes. Probably less than one in 100,000 white boys commit mass shootings in the US. Generalising from this to a wider group is questionable. It's not like say some political movements where there might be a spectrum of views with many people a little sympathetic to people who carry out acts of violence. In this case, you could say there is a bimodal distribution with virtually every white male thinking school shootings are crazy.

I think making negative comments about males in general based on mass shooters could be described as sexist.

terryduff12

How did Tupac and The Notorious B.I.G died white males again I guess, and not to mention all the carry on in the Congo and other African countries not a lot of white people involved there.

py2006

iptba wrote: »

I think making negative comments about males in general based on mass shooters could be described as sexist.

There is no "could be" about it. Actually, the word sexist is putting it extremely mildly.

gizmo555

iptba wrote: »

Probably less than one in 100,000 white boys commit mass shootings in the US. Generalising from this to a wider group is questionable.

72.4% of the US population is white. However, 58% of mass shootings in the US between 1982 and 2018 were perpetrated by white shooters. So, on average, whites are in fact less likely to be mass shooters than most other racial groups.

Pawwed Rig

gizmo555 wrote: »

72.4% of the US population is white. However, 58% of mass shootings in the US between 1982 and 2018 were perpetrated by white shooters. So, on average, whites are in fact less likely to be mass shooters than most other racial groups.

Seems to be a statistic that is easily manipulated tbh. I would look at body count before number of shootings. The definition of a mass shooting would also be important. I rarely believe any statistics coming out of the US as there is usually an agenda behind them.

DickSwiveller

iptba wrote: »

This message has been retweeted over 100,000 times and liked over 300,000 times:

https://twitter.com/edennnnnn/status/976556192318173184

I find the logic questionable and dislike males in general being tarred with such crimes. Probably less than one in 100,000 white boys commit mass shootings in the US. Generalising from this to a wider group is questionable. It's not like say some political movements where there might be a spectrum of views with many people a little sympathetic to people who carry out acts of violence. In this case, you could say there is a bimodal distribution with virtually every white male thinking school shootings are crazy.

I think making negative comments about males in general based on mass shooters could be described as sexist.

I wouldn't take anything said on twitter seriously. It's basically a left wing mob.

gizmo555

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Seems to be a statistic that is easily manipulated tbh. I would look at body count before number of shootings. The definition of a mass shooting would also be important. I rarely believe any statistics coming out of the US as there is usually an agenda behind them.

Here's the source data. The body count is irrelevant to how likely it is that someone of a particular racial group may commit a mass shooting, but FWIW the three worst shootings in this data set were done by a white, an Afghan, and an Asian, in that order.

citytillidie

PeterParker957 wrote: »

For double standards you really only have to look at a hen night.

Remember the presidents club and the out rage from that about how men behaved.

Here is a male stripper talking about how woman behave, of course nothing in the main media about it as woman would never act like men and well men want it

iptba

This is news to me:
https://twitter.com/anti_fembot/status/979761294587949056

I may have mentioned before that a female friend of mine said that in her primary school class in Ireland in the 1980s, the use of corporal punishment was restricted to the boys.

goose2005

iptba wrote: »

This message has been retweeted over 100,000 times and liked over 300,000 times:

https://twitter.com/edennnnnn/status/976556192318173184

I find the logic questionable and dislike males in general being tarred with such crimes. Probably less than one in 100,000 white boys commit mass shootings in the US. Generalising from this to a wider group is questionable. It's not like say some political movements where there might be a spectrum of views with many people a little sympathetic to people who carry out acts of violence. In this case, you could say there is a bimodal distribution with virtually every white male thinking school shootings are crazy.

I think making negative comments about males in general based on mass shooters could be described as sexist.

Moreover, there are mass killers of all races. Even Nicolas Cruz had a Jewish mother and was adopted into a Hispanic family, but as soon as he shoots someone he's 100% Aryan

silverharp

Irish Independant today by Martina Devlin, feminist hit peace, gets "toxic mascualnity" into the headline

http://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180331/283034055131943

iptba

silverharp wrote: »

Irish Independant today by Martina Devlin, feminist hit peace, gets "toxic mascualnity" into the headline

http://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180331/283034055131943

"but men need to understand why women feel a mounting anger ... and at the way women continue to be held to a higher standard; made responsible for her own behaviour as well as his."

I'm not sure about this in at least some ways. If a male and female have sex including after consuming alcohol, it seems there is at least equal if not more more pressure on the male to have got (proper) consent from the female than vice versa; similarly there is at least as much if not more concern regarding whether her consent may not be genuine if she has consumed too much alcohol compared to whether the male's consent is genuine if he has had too much alcohol.

deaddonkey15

silverharp wrote: »

Irish Independant today by Martina Devlin, feminist hit peace, gets "toxic mascualnity" into the headline

http://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180331/283034055131943

At least she doesn't buy the rape culture BS.

silverharp

What does anyone make of Fintan's approach to passing on values, the bolded bit made me do a double take, not far off giving a lad a lesson in Toxic masculanity

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-we-need-to-talk-to-our-boys-about-male-honour-1.3448123

Codes of honour

As fathers and father figures, we need to talk to our boys about what it means to be a man. We need them to be aware, not just of the harm they can do to women, but of the harm they can do to themselves if they get sucked into a joyless sexuality of competitive cruelty. We need them to know that if they are heterosexual, their happiness will depend on their ability to make a woman feel loved and respected. We need them to have codes of honour they would be deeply ashamed to break.

iptba

silverharp wrote: »

We need them to know that if they are heterosexual, their happiness will depend on their ability to make a woman feel loved and respected.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-we-need-to-talk-to-our-boys-about-male-honour-1.3448123

Possibly not the worst thing to say but I wonder if the genders were reversed, would everyone be happy with the message i.e. "We need them to know that if they are heterosexual, their happiness will depend on their ability to make a man feel loved and respected."

LostinBlanch

maybe

silverharp wrote: »

What does anyone make of Fintan's approach to passing on values, the bolded bit made me do a double take, not far off giving a lad a lesson in Toxic masculanity

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-we-need-to-talk-to-our-boys-about-male-honour-1.3448123

It's Fintan O'Toole, what else do you expect?

Calhoun

Are men allowed be though honour these days , I thought chivalry and all that crap is sexist?

LostinBlanch

maybe

Calhoun wrote: »

Are men allowed be though honour these days , I thought chivalry and all that crap is sexist?

Ah yes, benevolent sexism they call it.

That aside, there are more than a few inconsistencies in this modern feminist* argument. Haven't we been continually told that men and women have no real differences between them? But O'Toole agrees with the idea that men are more self sacrificing and courageous than women is a construct, but he's asking for men to accept this very construct.

To be more courageous and sacrifice themselves to protect women. Note he doesn't dare ask the same of women, that would be verboten. But if he's actually looking for equality then why are only men asked to sacrifice asked to take on the courageous, self sacrificing stuff?

*It also applies to fellow travellers like O'Toole when they espouse the same flawed arguments.

silverharp

was it Bill Burr who said there are no feminists in a house fire?, once sh11t gets real suddenly biological gender roles assert themselves.

Calhoun

I believe you are talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlR6CdJtRWM work of art .

I would say though in the whole argument of self sacrifice and teaching our future generation of men of honor. The question of why will start coming into it more, if women are equal then they can sacrifice as much as men do.

Men no longer can be just meat for the grinder, we are lucky we are in a neutral country but imagine having to fight and die for a system that is against you.

gizmo555

silverharp wrote: »

was it Bill Burr who said there are no feminists in a house fire?, once sh11t gets real suddenly biological gender roles assert themselves.

Lt Col Arnaud Beltrame, RIP.

Calhoun

It looks like the Dublin tech summit is discriminating against men. 59 euro ticket for women but 349 for men.

Be interesting to see how this stands up in court.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/89nqdv/dublin_tech_summit_349_for_men_but_59_for_women/

DickSwiveller

Calhoun wrote: »

It looks like the Dublin tech summit is discriminating against men. 59 euro ticket for women but 349 for men.

Be interesting to see how this stands up in court.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/89nqdv/dublin_tech_summit_349_for_men_but_59_for_women/

These people are mentally disturbed. They need urgent help.

ahnowbrowncow

No

DickSwiveller wrote: »

These people are mentally disturbed. They need urgent help.

Who, the Summit people or the ones chatting on reddit? I had a brief read of the reddit thread and the discourse there seemed quite measured and civilised.

DickSwiveller

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Who, the Summit people or the ones chatting on reddit? I had a brief read of the reddit thread and the discourse there seemed quite measured and civilised.

The web summit people.

The J Stands for Jay

Sounds like another opportunity to shout "Did you just assume my gender?" at someone.

Cookie_Monster

One in the news here in NZ last week. 3x 11 year olds accuse teacher of indecent assault. School fire him straight off, Police don't bother investigating at all and throw it straight at the courts, he's cleared in court and all three kids admitted lying to get him fired.

School will not re-hire him, because it went to court it's now on his record and he must inform all potential employers. Career and life in ruins now because of a proven false allegation...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12026593

LostinBlanch

maybe

Jesus, 40 years of a teaching career over in 24 hours due to a false allegation. Christ, that’s awful.

DEFTLEFTHAND

silverharp wrote: »

was it Bill Burr who said there are no feminists in a house fire?, once sh11t gets real suddenly biological gender roles assert themselves.

Nature always wins when put to the test.

Denial of nature leads to a lifetime of anger and unhappiness.

Buffman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

School will not re-hire him, because it went to court it's now on his record and he must inform all potential employers. Career and life in ruins now because of a proven false allegation...

Ye, reminds me of this one from the UK last year.

Geography teacher cleared of raping pupil says men should stay away from teaching

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/16/geography-teacher-cleared-raping-pupil-says-men-should-stay/

'The nightmare will stay with me forever': Teacher at a £33,000-a-year school who was falsely accused of rape by a student is now unemployed and living off benefits despite being cleared by a jury in just 15 minutes

• Kato Harris was falsely accused of rape by a 14-year-old former pupil
• Despite a flimsy case the CPS still brought a case against him
• The case was thrown out in just 15 minutes due to a lack of any real evidence
• Kato speaks to the Mail about how his life became a living hell during the ordeal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4415196/Nightmare-two-years-teacher-falsely-accused-rape.html

silverharp

what would say to a boy, yeah become a teacher but don't teach in a girl's or mixed sex school, thereby reducing your employment prospects by 3/4?

iptba

silverharp wrote: »

what would say to a boy, yeah become a teacher but don't teach in a girl's or mixed sex school, thereby reducing your employment prospects by 3/4?

And outside Ireland, there aren't that many boys-only schools (in most countries) as I understand it.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Nature always wins when put to the test.

I dunno, I think people attribute far too much to nature and instinct than is merited. Culture, on the other hand, has far more to answer for. Our civilizations created the hierarchy of male/female gender differences and the importance of one over the other, often based on survival needs (of the community) but also based on other imperatives.

I genuinely believe that the purely non-biological differences in the genders are more often than not culturally imposed on us, and the expectations of behavior that go with it. Our upbringing, and the conditioning we receive from sources of authority often determine our values.

It would be a natural instinct for a mother to protect her young, but not all mothers behave that way. Many women feel no connection with their children, and no remorse in leaving them behind. What determines whether women feel that connection or not? Nature? Culture? Social conditioning?

Our modern culture reinforces the value of women's needs over men, and does so by encouraging a collective social guilt in terms of selective sexism. We don't see many acknowledgments of women throughout history who held down other women and blocked their progress to "equality". Just as we don't see much acknowledgment of the female genders shared experience of being murderers, rapists, molesters, etc. It's toned down to focus on men, and the responsibility is inevitably passed to men, and their "nature". Because naturally (no pun), if it's our nature then we can't change it, and will always be collectively guilty for any associated behavior. Just as the female gender will always be given the qualities of being pure, innocent, etc. Although now that we have psychology and modern drugs, perhaps we can be cured of such "natural" behavior. [it's funny how women are never to be cured of the "qualities" that stop them from competing with men equally.]

Denial of nature leads to a lifetime of anger and unhappiness.

Denial of the ability to choose your own nature would assuredly lead there. There is far too much just passed on to us by other people and accepted as fact.

I've been told all my life that I'm a quiet, gentle person, with a loving nature. Meh. I can remember the red haze of smashing another mans face into the pavement wanting him dead, and only stopping myself doing so by a hair. The reasons why or whether it was justified, really don't matter. There is a well of rage within me that would be very surprising to most who know me. Ahh... It's truly amazing what we're capable of.

Nobody knows your nature, and finding out for yourself takes a bloody long time (if you ever actually manage to do so)... but there's always someone around who is willing to pass their idea on to you. If you don't choose your life direction, someone else will do so for you.

silverharp

^^

its a good post, I would summarise by saying that neither sex is motived the same way from a biological perspective. Take women , at one end you have a very "girly girly" types all the way up to quite masculinized women likewise you have some men that would hate or be terrified by the whole provider/head of family role all the way to the other extreme. know thy self or somefing

Defunkd

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

One in the news here in NZ last week. 3x 11 year olds accuse teacher of indecent assault. School fire him straight off, Police don't bother investigating at all and throw it straight at the courts, he's cleared in court and all three kids admitted lying to get him fired.

School will not re-hire him, because it went to court it's now on his record and he must inform all potential employers. Career and life in ruins now because of a proven false allegation...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12026593

Surely he can take a case against the school, police and cps? Now is not the time to lay down and accept ****...time to fight.

Cookie_Monster

Defunkd wrote: »

Surely he can take a case against the school, police and cps? Now is not the time to lay down and accept ****...time to fight.

I'm sure, ultimately, that would be the plan in some form. However limited financial compensation hardly cover the total ****up this was in the first place.

py2006

While that is a good thing, yet again men are disregarded.

"One stark statistic highlights its importance. One in three women has experienced psychological abuse by a partner, while 15% of women experience physical or sexual violence by a partner."

Safe Ireland, the national social change agency working to end domestic violence, welcomed the passing of the bill which it says is "robust, visionary and cutting edge in its response to the needs of women and children needing protection and safety."

Link

Sleepy

So does The Domestic Violence Bill 2017 actually address Domestic Violence regardless of gender of perpetraitor or victim? Or is it a sexist law that only that only addresses male on female abuse? Because that's certainly how it was being portrayed on this morning's news....

the_syco

maybe

Defunkd wrote: »

Surely he can take a case against the school, police and cps? Now is not the time to lay down and accept ****...time to fight.

He'd win, but it'd probably make him more unemployable.

Outlaw Pete

py2006 wrote: »

While that is a good thing, yet again men are disregarded.

Aye, was reading about that earlier and as ever the usual quotes from Women's Aid and the NWCI.

Fianna Fail's Jim O'Callaghan commented:

"We need in particular to be able to educate and inform young men of the unacceptability of using violence against women."

Perhaps he said more, adding also that violence against either gender in the home is unacceptable.... doubt it though.

Pat Mustard

Mod

Rereg troll deleted, together with his tiresome, repetitive nonsense.