Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

ELM327

I'm often accused of being on the alt right so I'm far from liberal.... just using the label to ensure everyone knew what I was talking about (and there were no ridiculous comments that come up here from time to time.. eg "her penis")

PlaneSpeeking

Wibbs wrote: »

Nada to do with race or sexuality PR, basically CIS = Normal. The crazy notion that if you're genetically and physically male(or female) you're male(or female). Groundbreaking stuff.

For all the protests about labels by the "right on" they certainly have the capacity to generate more than any other group. Again the irony and self awareness bypass at work.

Someone, somewhere is offended at that!

I commented about the "non binary" cast member in Billions - that she was clearly female as the actress was called Asia Kate.

Apparently that contains four elements of bigotry on my part.

1. It's actor - actress implies women are lesser in society and need a different job title.

2. Female does not exist.

3. Their pronoun is they. Not she.

4. Anyone whatever their gender, or none - can take a heteronormative name and make it gender neutral.

With the last one I laughed and pointed out Johnny Cash was there first 50 years ago.

Not amused.

The world be bat guano crazy my friends.

PlaneSpeeking

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm often accused of being on the alt right so I'm far from liberal.... just using the label to ensure everyone knew what I was talking about (and there were no ridiculous comments that come up here from time to time.. eg "her penis")

"You can't assume someone's gender just because they identify as a lesbian".

Anyone work that out, let me know!

kubjones

When I worked as a glass collector women would grab my ass all the time, oftentimes try to make me drop what I was carrying.

I got slapped because I wouldn't shift a girl's friend.

I got another slap when a girl that fancied me (And nothing had happened with) saw me get a kiss on the cheek from another girl and retaliated.

All these little quips that some women make about men not being competent, or that we can't do something because of our sex wrecks my head also. Not because the quips themselves bother me, I enjoy a bit of banter here and there, but just the hypocrisy that if a man were to say something similar they would be tarred and feathered. A recent example of this would be two women at work talking about how men shouldn't be allowed to be in managerial positions because women are far better at organizing and scheduling, using these overly-exaggerated stereotypes of what might happen, like if a man got a cold he'd be out for a month, he'd try and shag every new girl that came in, etc etc.

The way News outlets like Vox or Buzzfeed (which I am already aware are garbage) normalize pointing out the inadequacies of men is not only insulting, but rather dangerous to the male progression in general. Mental health is becoming more and more of an issue among young men and I believe its partly because masculinity is being scrutinized.

Its an obvious statement but men should be allowed to be interested in whatever they want. Its great that more men are becoming more comfortable doing traditionally feminine things and there is nothing wrong with it, but so too is there nothing wrong with MMA, rugby, etc. And in the same way that we make allowances for behavioral changes in women during times of high hormone production periods, so too should it be understood that young men are slaves to their hormones at times and though "lad" behavior shouldn't necessarily be encouraged, rather than flat out denying men an avenue to do away with these urges, instead more effort should be put into giving men avenues to deal with this.

I can't explain just how much martial arts helped me deal with the stupid levels of testosterone I was dealing with growing up. We really just don't realize how much of a control our emotions have over our actions until you learn how to deal with them properly. There doesn't have to be an enemy.

Pawwed Rig

KrustyUCC wrote: »

a cis woman is a woman who identifies as female and was assigned a female sex at birth

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/6227596/cis-cisgender-woman-man-meaning-transgender/

So a cis woman is a woman and a cis man is a man? Gotcha.

Pawwed Rig

Wibbs wrote: »

Nada to do with race or sexuality PR, basically CIS = Normal. The crazy notion that if you're genetically and physically male(or female) you're male(or female). Groundbreaking stuff.

For all the protests about labels by the "right on" they certainly have the capacity to generate more than any other group. Again the irony and self awareness bypass at work.

I have been peering down the rabbit hole of the US/Canadian far left recently and am seriously worried about the future of humanity. It is getting more and more bizaar to the extent that people can 'identify' as whatever they want.

I will say one thing - Trump is going to be easily re elected in a couple of years time. The left in the US getting too scary

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

The world be bat guano crazy my friends.

That's a fact

KrustyUCC

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So a cis woman is a woman and a cis man is a man? Gotcha.

For most people yes or as Wibbs puts it Normal

However the trans community would say a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man

if you don't adhere to that line you are regarded as being transphobic

Pawwed Rig

KrustyUCC wrote: »

if you don't adhere to that line you are regarded as being transphobic

I am a white male so I am pretty much the scum of the earth anyway

H3llR4iser

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

"You can't assume someone's gender just because they identify as a lesbian".

Anyone work that out, let me know!

Well, didn't Mr.Garrison from South Park go through a "lesbian trans woman" phase when he became "Miss Garrison", then decided she/he/whatever actually liked women more than men? That should explain it


Anyway, how long ago was that storyline on South Park?

laoch na mona

No

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

"You can't assume someone's gender just because they identify as a lesbian".

Anyone work that out, let me know!

non binary and queer identities, not everyone is strictly a man or a woman

ELM327

laoch na mona wrote: »

non binary and queer identities, not everyone is strictly a man or a woman

Did you not attend biology class?

Wibbs

maybe

laoch na mona wrote: »

non binary and queer identities, not everyone is strictly a man or a woman

Outside of medical conditions such as intersex, or hormonal or chromosomal abnormalities, they are.

Yes, how they feel about their physical gender is another thing, but they are either a man or a woman. I'm a straight man and I could claim that old and weary trope "well I'm a lesbian", but it would be a nonsense.

laoch na mona

No

Wibbs wrote: »

Outside of medical conditions such as intersex, or hormonal or chromosomal abnormalities, they are.

Yes, how they feel about their physical gender is another thing, but they are either a man or a woman. I'm a straight man and I could claim that old and weary trope "well I'm a lesbian", but it would be a nonsense.

assuming you were a trans woman then your penis wouldn't make you a man, you'd be a woman with a penis.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Did you not attend biology class?

Guess this question answers itself

laoch na mona wrote: »

assuming you were a trans woman then your penis wouldn't make you a man, you'd be a woman with a penis.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Wibbs

maybe

laoch na mona wrote: »

assuming you were a trans woman then your penis wouldn't make you a man, you'd be a woman with a penis.

Not for me. I take issue with anybody, particularly those suffering from a medical condition being abused, or not given the medical and societal support they need. I also have no issue with how someone else wants to live their lives, or who they want to be in consenting adult relationships with, or how they identify, so long as they extend that courtesy to me.

However I equally have no issue with saying in my personal opinion they are not a woman if they have a penis, external testes and Y chromosome(ditto for the reverse) and no amount of shouty aggressive activists running on feelz will make me change my mind on this.

ELM327

Wibbs wrote: »

Not for me. I take issue with anybody, particularly those suffering from a medical condition being abused, or not given the medical and societal support they need. I also have no issue with how someone else wants to live their lives, or who they want to be in consenting adult relationships with, or how they identify, so long as they extend that courtesy to me.

However I equally have no issue with saying in my personal opinion they are not a woman if they have a penis, external testes and Y chromosome(ditto for the reverse) and no amount of shouty aggressive activists running on feelz will make me change my mind on this.

+1


I can decide I identify as a cucumber tomorrow but I wouldnt expect society at large to humour my whim.

laoch na mona

No

Wibbs wrote: »

Not for me. I take issue with anybody, particularly those suffering from a medical condition being abused, or not given the medical and societal support they need. I also have no issue with how someone else wants to live their lives, or who they want to be in consenting adult relationships with, or how they identify, so long as they extend that courtesy to me.

However I equally have no issue with saying in my personal opinion they are not a woman if they have a penis, external testes and Y chromosome(ditto for the reverse) and no amount of shouty aggressive activists running on feelz will make me change my mind on this.

I assume you aren't one of the people attacking trans people so you probably aren't the problem (obviously your views would make it unlikely that you have much interaction with trans people)

but sadly most people who oppose trans rights take issue with trans people simply existing

Wibbs

maybe

laoch na mona wrote: »

I assume you aren't one of the people attacking trans people so you probably aren't the problem (obviously your views would make it unlikely that you have much interaction with trans people)

but sadly most people who oppose trans rights take issue with trans people simply existing

I've only known two in my life, but fleetingly. Both were Ok people and appeared to be happy enough in their skins. I certainly have zero issue with trans people existing and as I say should get the support they need. I do take issue with being told what I should or shouldn't think(or be attracted to) on the matter.

laoch na mona

laoch na mona wrote: »

I assume you aren't one of the people attacking trans people so you probably aren't the problem (obviously your views would make it unlikely that you have much interaction with trans people)

where can one have much interaction with trans people, without actively seeking them out?

They're probably one of the smallest minorities we have.

but sadly most people who oppose trans rights take issue with trans people simply existing

Do they? Oppose trans rights, that is... Or are they simply confused (like I am) about what its all about?

There seems to be this wave of judgement against people who don't immediately accept the Transgender situation as being natural.... and if you don't accept them, then you're against them. Us vs Them mentality. You're not allowed to sit on the fence and consider what is going on.

LostinBlanch

maybe

I just saw this on Reddit. Funding for Mens Sheds to be cut by 7%.

So one thing that works well and aids men's mental health is cut by €18,700. What a mean spirited and misandrist thing to do. An absolute disgrace. Of course there'll be loads of tweets about this from the mar dhea equality organisations.


Also look at the paltry amount that they survive on €267,142.* Compare and contrast to the amounts shovelled towards womens organisations.

*How did I get this amount? Easy 18,700 / 7 x 100.

sharper

Wibbs wrote: »

However I equally have no issue with saying in my personal opinion they are not a woman if they have a penis, external testes and Y chromosome(ditto for the reverse) and no amount of shouty aggressive activists running on feelz will make me change my mind on this.

How would you know about someone chromosomes or genitals most of the time though?

I go with the simplest solution - if someone presents as a woman I'm not going to think too deeply on it refer to them as a woman. I'm not going to refer to a woman as being a man on the basis of a DNA test.

That's all very different to issues like gender fluidity or custom pronouns where people wants to be referred to as different terms on different days. I apply the simple solution there as well which is that I can't be bothered and I'm just going to avoid talking to that person.

laoch na mona

No

LostinBlanch wrote: »

I just saw this on Reddit. Funding for Mens Sheds to be cut by 7%.

So one thing that works well and aids men's mental health is cut by €18,700. What a mean spirited and misandrist thing to do. An absolute disgrace. Of course there'll be loads of tweets about this from the mar dhea equality organisations.


Also look at the paltry amount that they survive on €267,142.* Compare and contrast to the amounts shovelled towards womens organisations.

*How did I get this amount? Easy 18,700 / 7 x 100.

Are they funded from the mental health budget? Because Fine Gael have made a lot of cuts that that that has also effected groups like the rape crisis centre

in any respect it was a male minister for health and male Taoiseach who ultimately controls what gets cut, its a terrible move as mens sheds are a great organisation, interestingly that link is to a statement from a female politician.

So female politician raises issue of cuts to mens group by male minister.

Pawwed Rig

laoch na mona wrote: »

So female politician raises issue of cuts to mens group by male minister.

So men don't only look after men and women don't only look out for women. Hardly a shocker?

laoch na mona

No

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So men don't only look after men and women don't only look out for women. Hardly a shocker?

kind of undermines the claim of misandry though, it more a story about the neglect of mental health services by a pro austerity government.

Its not like women's aid and others aren't affected by austerity as well

Pawwed Rig

Misandry is probably a strong term imo but a neglect of mens health is not unusual in the western world.

py2006

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Misandry is probably a strong term imo but a neglect of mens health is not unusual in the western world.

In fairness it's used in the same vein misogyny is used nowadays.

iptba

Not the worst comment but still sexist.
Over 100,000 likes in 1 day
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1016392866699137024

tritium

laoch na mona wrote: »

Are they funded from the mental health budget? Because Fine Gael have made a lot of cuts that that that has also effected groups like the rape crisis centre

in any respect it was a male minister for health and male Taoiseach who ultimately controls what gets cut, its a terrible move as mens sheds are a great organisation, interestingly that link is to a statement from a female politician.

So female politician raises issue of cuts to mens group by male minister.

I don’t really see what the gender of the politician actually has to do with it. Contrary to what’s sometimes uttered from the sidelines there isn’t some sort of “look after the lads, feck the women” view from male politicians, something that, if anything, this shameful decision illustrates powerfully.

tritium

LostinBlanch wrote: »

I just saw this on Reddit. Funding for Mens Sheds to be cut by 7%.

So one thing that works well and aids men's mental health is cut by €18,700. What a mean spirited and misandrist thing to do. An absolute disgrace. Of course there'll be loads of tweets about this from the mar dhea equality organisations.


Also look at the paltry amount that they survive on €267,142.* Compare and contrast to the amounts shovelled towards womens organisations.

*How did I get this amount? Easy 18,700 / 7 x 100.

Shameful isn’t it. However it happens because they’re not challenged on it. I’d encourage everyone to email their local tds (or indeed all tds) to point out this is unacceptable- the only thing that changes a tds view or prompts action is generally the fear of losing votes

tritium

laoch na mona wrote: »

kind of undermines the claim of misandry though, it more a story about the neglect of mental health services by a pro austerity government.

Its not like women's aid and others aren't affected by austerity as well

Was ther a claim of misandry anywhere?

While it’s become fashionable to throw around words like misogyny or indeed misandry occasionally like confetti, sometimes it’s just a wrongheaded political decision based on the belief that for certain groups there won’t be enough noise raised.

I’d encourage anyone offended by this to email their tds to point out that this is a bad and unacceptable decision and they expect their tds to raise this until it’s addressed

I wouldn't consider it to be misandry. TBH I find all these terms to be used far too broadly these days (misandry, homophobic, racist), often in ways far beyond their original definition.

I would consider it to be unfair, because while Female benefits were also lowered, there are far more different funded projects for women across the board, than the ones available for men. (They might be considered part of equality programs, but the terms of these projects are usually directed solely at womens rights)

Pawwed Rig

It is the first port of call during debates now to discredit white males. Calling them a racist, sexist or homophobe is an effective way of justifying ignoring what they are saying. Trump is a good example. Dismiss everything he does on the basis he is one (all) of the above allowing people to ignore that the US economy and stock markets are booming and international relations are nearing all time highs (Russia, N Korea, Vietnam etc).
Not a Trump supporter myself but things in the US have barely changed noticeably since the end of the Obama regime.

PlaneSpeeking

ELM327 wrote: »

+1


I can decide I identify as a cucumber tomorrow but I wouldnt expect society at large to humour my whim.

#SaladVegetablesLivesMatter

mzungu

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is the first port of call during debates now to discredit white males. Calling them a racist, sexist or homophobe is an effective way of justifying ignoring what they are saying. Trump is a good example. Dismiss everything he does on the basis he is one (all) of the above allowing people to ignore that the US economy and stock markets are booming and international relations are nearing all time highs (Russia, N Korea, Vietnam etc).
Not a Trump supporter myself but things in the US have barely changed noticeably since the end of the Obama regime.

Very little has been done there. One summit and a few soundbites do not fix the problem of North Korea. If anything, he handed them a PR victory. As for Russia, what has he done there? Couple of meetings with the Putin and little else. Relations with Vietnam has been fine for years, even back when Obama was in charge. Meanwhile, his unique brand of juvenile Twitter diplomacy has alienated their allies. Needless trade wars, backing Brexit etc. That is shambolic international relations.

The trade deficit is getting worse, wages have not increased significantly, although if unemployment rates continue to go down they should rise. The unemployment rates were already going down long before Obama left office, so that has little to do with Trump himself. However, there has been economic growth on his watch so kudos where kudos is due, but a lot of the criticism of Trump is warranted, mainly because of how he conducts himself.

One thing I do agree on is that no matter who is in charge in the USA, the same people profit from it all the time. In that sense, yes, nothing changes.

Pawwed Rig

mzungu wrote: »

but a lot of the criticism of Trump is warranted, mainly because of how he conducts himself.

Not doubting it but the behaviour from the far left since he took office is staggeringly bad.

Re the summits - it is good to talk No? Ignoring things never fixes anything.

No wars yet so 2 up on Bush.

Not denying he is a man child but he isn't the devil incarnate that people make out. I would say Bush's policy of 'with us or against us' is more insidious than anything Trump has done to date. It is Trump's offence to the left that makes the most headlines imo (very similar personality to Putin imo. if he could pull off the action man poses he would be all over that :pac:) rather than any policies as such.

The tariffs might not be a bad idea in the long run imo. We are too reliant on cheap shyte made in China. I think it would be a good thing to have more locally made cheap shyte.

While I've never liked Trump, I honestly didn't like Obama either. Too smooth for my taste. And Bush? <Shudders>. American politics is incredibly messy and it's difficult to know who is actually running the country.

Still.. Trump could have done more, and possibly have been successful if his opponents both in politics and the media had considered the good of the country over the need to insult him. Trump could have been made to compromise and be guided towards more moderate change, but instead, he was forced against a wall... and he came out swinging wildly. There's no controlling or guiding him now, because nobody tried to contribute to his term. He's still a muppet, but honestly, I'd blame the pettiness of his opponents just as much.

I do find it amazing the cherry-picking people seem to do about Obama, (and Bush to a lesser extent), just so they can cast their judgment over Trump. The US has had two bad presidents and one very lukewarm one...

Still, saying that, I'm actually glad Trump got into office. Hilary would have been far worse (in her own way).

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

While I've never liked Trump, I honestly didn't like Obama either. Too smooth for my taste. And Bush? <Shudders>. American politics is incredibly messy and it's difficult to know who is actually running the country.

Still.. Trump could have done more, and possibly have been successful if his opponents both in politics and the media had considered the good of the country over the need to insult him. Trump could have been made to compromise and be guided towards more moderate change, but instead, he was forced against a wall... and he came out swinging wildly. There's no controlling or guiding him now, because nobody tried to contribute to his term. He's still a muppet, but honestly, I'd blame the pettiness of his opponents just as much.

I do find it amazing the cherry-picking people seem to do about Obama, (and Bush to a lesser extent), just so they can cast their judgment over Trump. The US has had two bad presidents and one very lukewarm one...

Please, even the Republicans couldn't get him to wise up. The Dems tried last year on stuff, got an agreement and then Trump would come out and say the opposite. Look at him today, he starts talking during a bloody photo op talking **** (demonstrably) about Germany/NATO.

Still, saying that, I'm actually glad Trump got into office. Hilary would have been far worse (in her own way).

Ah.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is the first port of call during debates now to discredit white males. Calling them a racist, sexist or homophobe is an effective way of justifying ignoring what they are saying. Trump is a good example. Dismiss everything he does on the basis he is one (all) of the above allowing people to ignore that the US economy and stock markets are booming and international relations are nearing all time highs (Russia, N Korea, Vietnam etc).
Not a Trump supporter myself but things in the US have barely changed noticeably since the end of the Obama regime.

Then you have clowns like Bill Maher hoping for a recession to make Trump look bad.

Millionaire Bill won't have to worry about losing his home or going hungry though.:rolleyes:

It's gone crazy over there altogether with the tribalism. The whole concept of being an American (rather than a Democrat or Republican) and getting behind your country seems to have gone out the window.

The J Stands for Jay

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

#SaladVegetablesLivesMatter

#cucumbersarefruit #fruitphobia

ELM327

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

#SaladVegetablesLivesMatter

What about tomatos, the original transfruit.
It's a fruit now but its not a fruit salad fruit

PlaneSpeeking

McGaggs wrote: »

#cucumbersarefruit #fruitphobia

Do I need to go on a course or something now ??!!

PlaneSpeeking

ELM327 wrote: »

What about tomatos, the original transfruit.
It's a fruit now but its not a fruit salad fruit

Wasn't that a Brian O'Driscoll line - no doubt nicked from elsewhere: "Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting one in a fruit salad" ?

The J Stands for Jay

A man recently asked on his workplace intranet, on an equality group page, what the statistics might show regarding the breakdown of extra hours worked by gender.

He was attacked repeatedly and apologised a few times. It seems he shouldn't be having thoughts about using facts to show anything other than the patriarchal gender gap oppressing women.

PlaneSpeeking

McGaggs wrote: »

A man recently asked on his workplace intranet, on an equality group page, what the statistics might show regarding the breakdown of extra hours worked by gender.

He was attacked repeatedly and apologised a few times. It seems he shouldn't be having thoughts about using facts to show anything other than the patriarchal gender gap oppressing women.

He shouldn't have apologised - he's absolutely right.

it genuinely annoys me that I earn the same salary as a colleague yet I've done 11 years here, she started 2 years after me and has had three periods of maternity leave. Hardly fair.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

He shouldn't have apologised - he's absolutely right.

it genuinely annoys me that I earn the same salary as a colleague yet I've done 11 years here, she started 2 years after me and has had three periods of maternity leave. Hardly fair.

TBH I find some of the options available to women quite interesting. A friend of mine has three kids. Her first kid, the standard maternity leave, followed by job sharing (so working less, but almost full pay), followed by the next kid, etc. She hasn't worked a full standard period in four years, but her promotions/pay rises are secure, and she can just keep doing this as long as she wishes to have kids. She plans on having 6 children. The company she works for has hired temp staff to help with the job sharing, and can't afford to keep any of them permanent, but can't do anything to my friend to "encourage" her to focus on her job. And my friend is well aware of all this, and takes pride in using the system this way... it's her right has a woman. Her words.

I won't talk all the others who work in the company who don't have such options, because this isn't really about fairness to either the males, or the women who choose/can't have children. (Yes, Yes, I know... the country needs more babies, and women would just stop having babies if they had to work the same as everyone else. I've heard that argument a million times by now. )

It just interests me that there are always claims that it's not enough.

py2006

Currently on Marian O'Callaghan they are discussing abusive relationships and controlling behaviour and of course its women as victims largely. Its OVERWHELMING women that are victims. The discussion is mainly controlling behaviour.

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I find some of the options available to women quite interesting. A friend of mine has three kids. Her first kid, the standard maternity leave, followed by job sharing (so working less, but almost full pay), followed by the next kid, etc. She hasn't worked a full standard period in four years, but her promotions/pay rises are secure, and she can just keep doing this as long as she wishes to have kids. She plans on having 6 children. The company she works for has hired temp staff to help with the job sharing, and can't afford to keep any of them permanent, but can't do anything to my friend to "encourage" her to focus on her job. And my friend is well aware of all this, and takes pride in using the system this way... it's her right has a woman. Her words.

I won't talk all the others who work in the company who don't have such options, because this isn't really about fairness to either the males, or the women who choose/can't have children. (Yes, Yes, I know... the country needs more babies, and women would just stop having babies if they had to work the same as everyone else. I've heard that argument a million times by now. )

It just interests me that there are always claims that it's not enough.

I asked for a week's paid compassionate leave to help my dementia suffering elderly father into his nursing home. They said no.

Yet women here get unlimited appointments for pregnancy related stuff - and one woman was told she only had to do 10am to 4pm to miss the rush hour as it was stressful travelling by LUAS when pregnant.

Same woman did Croagh Patrick at 6 months. Hmm.

PlaneSpeeking

py2006 wrote: »

Currently on Marian O'Callaghan they are discussing abusive relationships and controlling behaviour and of course its women as victims largely. Its OVERWHELMING women that are victims. The discussion is mainly controlling behaviour.

We have a posterboard here with help for students - there is a "He's too into you" campaign about teenage domestic violence.

I asked where the one for boys was. "Boys aren't the victims in domestic violence".

Well that's good to know eh ? :rolleyes:

iptba

py2006 wrote: »

Currently on Marian O'Callaghan they are discussing abusive relationships and controlling behaviour and of course its women as victims largely. Its OVERWHELMING women that are victims. The discussion is mainly controlling behaviour.

Well it was claimed at the #safeireland presentation today


https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017350777470443520

though I remain to be convinced

@SAFEIreland
Working to see an Irish society that acts decisively to end domestic violence challenges the perpetration of all violence against women

PlaneSpeeking

iptba wrote: »

Well it was claimed at the #safeireland presentation today


https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017350777470443520

though I remain to be convinced

No one would ever argue that women are not often victims of violence but men are too and of course the relationship with the highest proportion of DV is a lesbian one, female aggressor/female victim.

No one seems to want to discuss that though.