Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

banquo

maybe

It's the use of equality language that's my problem with this and other suggestions. It's blatantly sexist, but in the language of "Equality" so acceptable.

If there were a policy doc released in the morning by a group who wanted to prioritise welfare payments to men it would get absolutely trashed to bits on the internet - and rightly so, because it's insane. Welfare exists to help prevent the people who need it being hungry and homeless, and to take the time to publish your intention to lobby for the protection of only one gender from those things more than infers that one gender is less worthy of that protection than another.

There are a bunch of ways that each gender has it different under the law - can't we (and I mean in general) just be honest about these instead of trying to "win" based on "who is the least happy" ?

jackofalltrades

maybe

The equality impact statement provides information as to how the specific policy measures under contemplation will affect particular social groups and sectors, particularly groups that are vulnerable or disadvantaged in some way (e.g., women, the older population, the disabled, lone parents, or particular ethnic groups).

from: http://equalitybudgeting.ie/wp-conte...submission.pdf

I remember reading this before and thinking, that's a bit of a sly move from feminism, getting women included under the "vulnerable/disadvantaged" label.

GalwayGuy2

I always thought the reason women and children were removed from situations like war because like children women were thought of as 'weak' boh physically and mentally at that time.

Yes, that is half of it.

the other half would be the fact that men are seen as strong, or less delicate or even is a man's duty to die to protect the weak people.

Any form of sexism isn't created in a vacuum. If a society is sexist against women then it will be sexist against men.

PucaMama

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Yes, that is half of it.

the other half would be the fact that men are seen as strong, or less delicate or even is a man's duty to die to protect the weak people.

Any form of sexism isn't created in a vacuum. If a society is sexist against women then it will be sexist against men.

But isnt it like the way men were allowed work outside the home or be involved in politics when women were not because women were thought to be too weak minded so essentially its an advantage men had

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

GalwayGuy2 wrote:

Yes, that is half of it.

the other half would be the fact that men are seen as strong, or less delicate or even is a man's duty to die to protect the weak people.

Any form of sexism isn't created in a vacuum. If a society is sexist against women then it will be sexist against men.

But isnt it like the way men were allowed work outside the home or be involved in politics when women were not because women were thought to be too weak minded so essentially its an advantage men had

In some countries, women can work in the military, but only men have to do military service and/or get conscripted (or get put on a list where they might be conscripted like the Selective Service System in the US).

PucaMama

iptba wrote: »

In some countries, women can work in the military, but only men have to do military service and/or get conscripted (or get put on a list where they might be conscripted like the Selective Service System in the US).

I dont think its fair women are not allowed onto those lists do you

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

iptba wrote:

In some countries, women can work in the military, but only men have to do military service and/or get conscripted (or get put on a list where they might be conscripted like the Selective Service System in the US).

I dont think its fair women are not allowed onto those lists do you

I don't think it's a fair system either that only men have to make themselves available for conscription, but women don't, in the US where there are large numbers of women who do paid work in the military. But I don't see it as a disadvantage to women.

PucaMama

iptba wrote: »

I don't think it's a fair system either that only men have to make themselves available for conscription, but women don't, in the US where there are large numbers of women who do paid work in the military. But I don't see it as a disadvantage to women.

Well i think its a way of saying women arent capable

banquo

maybe

PucaMama wrote: »

But isnt it like the way men were allowed work outside the home or be involved in politics when women were not because women were thought to be too weak minded so essentially its an advantage men had

Some people thought that, but not for the whole world throughout history. Often things have specific cultural reasons for becoming practice, but when the environment changes people impose vernacular thinking on old practices to explain them.

The main reason that women couldn't vote was that it was initially supposed to be one vote per household, not per person (which obviously doesn't make it any less daft!)

But the reasons varied wildly depending on the generation and the level of resistance from a monarchy to expand suffrage in general.

Edit: But that's in the past.

PucaMama

banquo wrote: »

Some people thought that, but not for the whole world throughout history. Often things have specific cultural reasons for becoming practice, but when the environment changes people impose vernacular thinking on old practices to explain them.

The main reason that women couldn't vote was that it was initially supposed to be one vote per household, not per person (which obviously doesn't make it any less daft!)

But the reasons varied wildly depending on the generation and the level of resistance from a monarchy to expand suffrage in general.

Edit: But that's in the past.

If that was the main reason why were people so worried when women were trying to get a vote in ireland

jaja321

Darren Incalculable AcrossL wrote: »

Seems sensible what you and your wife are doing.

Wouldn't be good if you went to work every day wrecked, particularly with you being self employed, the family finances could very well take a hit.

Thing is with this one is that it is impossible to reverse the roles between you and your wife as she is the only one entitled to maternity leave. Although if you could take unpaid leave in the future and she was working I'd hope you would take the baby night-shift when she is working the next day.

Maybe the other women believe that in order to have equality both father and mother must share night-duty regardless if the father has to get up in the morning?

Either way, seems you and your wife have found a sensible solution that works for both of ye.

Is his wife not working too though, even if it's unpaid? She's hardly getting a lie in each morning either. Not trying to be smart, genuinely curious how people normally manage this.

iptba

jaja321 wrote: »

Is his wife not working too though, even if it's unpaid? She's hardly getting a lie in each morning either. Not trying to be smart, genuinely curious how people normally manage this.

Many mothers can take naps during the day when a baby sleeps. You can't do that with work outside the home (generally)

jaja321

iptba wrote: »

Many mothers can take naps during the day when a baby sleeps. You can't do that with work outside the home (generally)

A lot depends on how well the baby sleeps and what other stuff you have for doing around the house.

PucaMama

iptba wrote: »

Many mothers can take naps during the day when a baby sleeps. You can't do that with work outside the home (generally)

Mothers dont get to finish at a certain hour they are always in demand so its fairly even

banquo

maybe

In fairness.

Absoluvely

PucaMama wrote: »

Mothers dont get to finish at a certain hour they are always in demand so its fairly even

I think the word you're looking for there is parents.

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

iptba wrote:

I don't think it's a fair system either that only men have to make themselves available for conscription, but women don't, in the US where there are large numbers of women who do paid work in the military. But I don't see it as a disadvantage to women.

Well i think its a way of saying women arent capable

If a woman thinks she is discriminated against in the paid jobs in the military, she can take a sexual discrimination case.

The fact that in some countries women are able to work in the paid military but do not have to do military service and/or be eligible for conscription suggests to me various societies see it as more acceptable for men to be used as cannon fodder.

Playboy

No

jaja321 wrote: »

Is his wife not working too though, even if it's unpaid? She's hardly getting a lie in each morning either. Not trying to be smart, genuinely curious how people normally manage this.

Yes, no one is claiming my wife doesn't work! But imo common sense would tell you that when one individual needs to up early, fresh and focused for a days work then that person shouldn't be taking care of the child at night. My wife has opportunity to sleep/nap during the day or when I come home in the evening to take over baby duties. Should the person who needs to be up early to commute to work and work a full day be exhausted from lack of sleep or should the person who stays at home with the child be better able to cope with less regular sleep? My wife and I agree and are happy with the way we structured our lives but I find it strange that so many others have a different view.

Edit: and of course my wife can have a lie in? Why can't she? She can organise her schedule with the baby in any way she sees fit. They stay in bed late lots of mornings

Playboy

No

jaja321 wrote: »

A lot depends on how well the baby sleeps and what other stuff you have for doing around the house.

But surely the main source of household income is more important and should be protected? Chores around the house can be shared in the evening as can care of the child/children

iptba

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ok gents. In the interests of democracy there has been a poll added. Let the posters of TGC decide if we want 2 threads or 1.


iptba I will close your other thread for the meantime until the poll finishes. Until then this can remain as the catch all thread.

FWIW: just less than 24 hours left in the poll. It's currently very tight. Currently can't decide myself*.

*Brown envelopes will be accepted

Pawwed Rig

The people have spoken. 1 thread it is which will be a catch all for personal and general sexism. Any issues pm me. Thank you for your input.

Post on..............

upandcumming

I thought the reactions in the cinema at the Wolf of Wall Street was funny. Ooooing and gasping at the Duchess getting a slap...

donfers

No

Most of us kind of knew the gross sexism in the health sector

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/02/boys-cancer-risk-increased-without-same-vaccination-girls

again don't expect certain groups that profess to be about combatting sexism and inequality to utter a word about this

I can only imagine the reaction everywhere if the situation was reversed

laoch na mona

No

donfers wrote: »

Most of us kind of knew the gross sexism in the health sector

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/02/boys-cancer-risk-increased-without-same-vaccination-girls

again don't expect certain groups that profess to be about combatting sexism and inequality to utter a word about this

I can only imagine the reaction everywhere if the situation was reversed

no correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that vaccine for a type of cancer which only effects women?

i doubt there is any evil feminist plot to let men die of cancer.
if the situation was reversed and only men were getting cervical cancer vaccines then the hypothetical uproar would make sense because why the **** would we vaccinate men and not women against cervical cancer

py2006

laoch na mona wrote: »

i doubt there is any evil feminist plot to let men die of cancer.

Hopefully not, but there are plenty that will ignore an inequality because it doesn't affect them.

Pawwed Rig

laoch na mona wrote: »

no correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that vaccine for a type of cancer which only effects women?

Apprently not. Per the article

'The vaccination combats a family of viruses that are also linked to a number of cancers prevalent in men including anal and penile cancer and genital warts. Peter Baker, campaign director for HPV Action, said: "Vaccinating girls alone is not enough to tackle HPV. Men can still get the virus from unvaccinated women from the UK and other countries or from other men.'

The fact that it has already been given to boys in Oz and parts of Canada would indicate there may be a benefit.

kunst nugget

maybe

donfers wrote: »

Most of us kind of knew the gross sexism in the health sector

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/02/boys-cancer-risk-increased-without-same-vaccination-girls

again don't expect certain groups that profess to be about combatting sexism and inequality to utter a word about this

I can only imagine the reaction everywhere if the situation was reversed

Do you bother doing any research to prove you're right. Google 'Feminist HPV Boys' and you'll see a load of feminist related blogs and websites advocating the HPV vaccine for boys.

donfers

No

kunst nugget wrote: »

Do you bother doing any research to prove you're right. Google 'Feminist HPV Boys' and you'll see a load of feminist related blogs and websites advocating the HPV vaccine for boys.

ah the old "google it and you'll see it exists" mantra

If I googled "man eats crocodile heart in order to improve levitation skills" I'd probably find a few blogs and references to it

The point is that very few mainstream feminist media sources care and it exposes them as hypocrites when they bang on about equality because the truth is they are about self-interest - that's the long and short of it I'm afraid

You would hear about this a million times more from feminists if the situations were reversed which is odd, if they are truly about equality and not just self-benefit and feck the rest then they would campaign as vociferously about this as the stuff that affects women - if you think they do that then I believe you are extremely deluded

I don't mind them campaigning for issue that affect women by the way, I just wish they'd drop they myth that they are about equality for all

py2006

In fairness, not all feminists are the same. Some are very much for equality in the true sense of the word but that's more of an egalitarian in my mind.

However, they seem to be in the minority or perhaps silent majority?

laoch na mona

No

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The fact that it has already been given to boys in Oz and parts of Canada would indicate there may be a benefit.

I stand corrected but still no evidence of evil feminist plot

kunst nugget

maybe

donfers wrote: »

ah the old "google it and you'll see it exists" mantra

If I googled "man eats crocodile heart in order to improve levitation skills" I'd probably find a few blogs and references to it

The point is that very few mainstream feminist media sources care and it exposes them as hypocrites when they bang on about equality because the truth is they are about self-interest - that's the long and short of it I'm afraid

You would hear about this a million times more from feminists if the situations were reversed which is odd, if they are truly about equality and not just self-benefit and feck the rest then they would campaign as vociferously about this as the stuff that affects women - if you think they do that then I believe you are extremely deluded

I don't mind them campaigning for issue that affect women by the way, I just wish they'd drop they myth that they are about equality for all

Ah, the 'I won't bother doing any research because everything on the internet that doesn't correspond to my world view is rubbish' chestnut. It must be great have such an impenetrable belief in what you're saying. Good luck enjoying that.

How about googling 'Why men shouldn't get the HPV vaccine' because obviously if, like you say, feminists as a mind hive collective only care about self benefit, they'd surely be actively saying that boys shouldn't receive the HPV vaccine. Are any of them saying that? No? That's strange…

Also, out of curiosity, for future reference can you give me a full list of the mainstream feminist media sources that inspire such ire in you so that I can tut and frown next time they actively exclude men from their articles and opinion pieces.

kunst nugget

maybe

py2006 wrote: »

In fairness, not all feminists are the same. Some are very much for equality in the true sense of the word but that's more of an egalitarian in my mind.

However, they seem to be in the minority or perhaps silent majority?

And there's a lot of men that believe fervently in equality across the boards but it's the nutters in the extreme end of MRA who represent a miniscule minority that make it harder for others to have reasoned and honest debate and discussion on these topics. Hmm, that sounds awfully like what happens with feminism…

py2006

kunst nugget wrote: »

And there's a lot of men that believe fervently in equality across the boards but it's the nutters in the extreme end of MRA who represent a miniscule minority that make it harder for others to have reasoned and honest debate and discussion on these topics. Hmm, that sounds awfully like what happens with feminism…

Comparing the MRA and feminism in terms of voice and nutters (haven't come across them myself) is like comparing a marble to planet earth.

banquo

maybe

And nobody in the MRA - thank God - has a column in a national newspaper, government access or state-funded researchers.

kunst nugget

maybe

banquo wrote: »

And nobody in the MRA - thank God - has a column in a national newspaper, government access or state-funded researchers.

John Waters?

iptba

banquo wrote: »

And nobody in the MRA - thank God - has a column in a national newspaper, government access or state-funded researchers.

Also, feminists have a lot of influence in terms of what is taught in education esp. third level.

PucaMama

py2006 wrote: »

Comparing the MRA and feminism in terms of voice and nutters (haven't come across them myself) is like comparing a marble to planet earth.

have you never seen the forums on a voice for men? posters recommending getting a woman pregnant and then taking off so some other man can take care of it. that was a goal for some posters. or advising to cut women out of your life all together. i wanted to say good luck with that when you are in A&e in serious need of help and a female nurse comes to save your life. they will want a woman around then. it was a hard read, as hard as reading about the woman who abandoned her son for being male. maybe its just me but i find it hard to understand people with so much hate in their hearts.

donfers

No

laoch na mona wrote: »

I stand corrected but still no evidence of evil feminist plot

Nobody suggested that

but these hysterical straw-man reactions are however typical

the suggestion is that they drop the equality myth because the the truth is the vast majority of them prioritise womens issues over equivalment mens issues which is fair enough, but drop the equality myth

kunst nugget

maybe

donfers wrote: »

Nobody suggested that

but these hysterical straw-man reactions are however typical

the suggestion is that they drop the equality myth because the the truth is the vast majority of them prioritise womens issues over equivalment mens issues which is fair enough, but drop the equality myth

You're seriously accusing other people of strawman reactions? That's gas…

donfers

No

kunst nugget wrote: »

How about googling 'Why men shouldn't get the HPV vaccine' because obviously if, like you say, feminists as a mind hive collective only care about self benefit, they'd surely be actively saying that boys shouldn't receive the HPV vaccine. Are any of them saying that? No? That's strange…

total strawman nonsense

this kind of argument exposes a lack of integrity but is depressingly common with so-called fashionable causes

did anybody accuse them of actively saying that boys shouldn't receive the hpv vaccine?

stop taking to some non-existent patriarchal bogey-man to justify your political views, you totally miss the point

the point being they pay significantly less attention to equivalent male issues, do you agree with that or not?

equality works both ways, otherwise it is allabout advantage, advantage, advantage

equal in this but not in that = drop the equality myth

iptba

Access to the HPV vaccine is probably not the best one to debate about. One of the main reasons I have seen it advocated to be given to boys was to reduce the cancer rate in women.

donfers

No

kunst nugget wrote: »

You're seriously accusing other people of strawman reactions? That's gas…

I'll rephrase for your delicate worldviews - strawperson

kunst nugget

maybe

donfers wrote: »

I'll rephrase for your delicate worldviews - strawperson

Haha, PC gone mad and all that. You make a sweeping statement about the feminist reaction to boys receiving the HPV virus that is classic strawman and then you accuse everyone else that engages with you of the same. Total nonsense. You still haven't told me about those mainstream feminist media sources.

ghogie91

I work in an office.

I am 22 and am the only male. The age gap is at least 16 years between my and my 5 other co-workers

I am full time alone with 3 others and 2 are temporary

I always have to do the heavy lifting and get stick if I dont, my contract doesnt entail store work, yet when it has to be done its always me. Any deliveries that come to us have to be delt with by me as the others are 'afraid' of the couriers, anyone enters our yard unauthorised I have to go out because yet again the others are 'afraid'

All this work in the store over the years has made me very familiar with every inch and product we have, this is also knows so its left to the 'young lad' to do all the hauling of these products

Also alot of phonecalls I get have to be passed on as people dont seem to think a lad may be able to deal with their issue, they want to hear a girls voice

kunst nugget

maybe

donfers wrote: »

total strawman nonsense

this kind of argument exposes a lack of integrity but is depressingly common with so-called fashionable causes

did anybody accuse them of actively saying that boys shouldn't receive the hpv vaccine?

stop taking to some non-existent patriarchal bogey-man to justify your political views, you totally miss the point

the point being they pay significantly less attention to equivalent male issues, do you agree with that or not?

equality works both ways, otherwise it is allabout advantage, advantage, advantage

equal in this but not in that = drop the equality myth

You're accusing me of a lack of integrity after you've basically dismissed any counter-arguments I made because they don't suit your worldview. What are my political views? I don't pay heed to hysterical nonsense about patriarchal oppression just as I'm going to do basic research behind any of the more outlandish claims being made here and you're making loads of them here - not one of them has any backup - tell me how do they pay significantly less attention to male issues?

newport2

kunst nugget wrote: »

You're accusing me of a lack of integrity after you've basically dismissed any counter-arguments I made because they don't suit your worldview. What are my political views? I don't pay heed to hysterical nonsense about patriarchal oppression just as I'm going to do basic research behind any of the more outlandish claims being made here and you're making loads of them here - not one of them has any backup - tell me how do they pay significantly less attention to male issues?

Do you seriously think that feminists pay as much attention to male issues as female issues? Seriously?

kunst nugget

maybe

newport2 wrote: »

Do you seriously think that feminists pay as much attention to male issues as female issues? Seriously?

Ah, right I thought we were talking about the health service themselves. Obviously a person writing from a feminist perspective is going to write more about women's health issues - just as someone writing from a male right's perspective is going to write more about men's health issues, is that actually a problem for people here? The fact is that donfers made a dramatic statement about how boys will be completely ignored when the quickest google search proved him wrong.

Sleepy

Maybe I'm somehow mis-construing this but I was reading through the Flat Rate (employment) expenses today and came across the following:

Cardiac Technicians
Female: €212
Male: €107

Maybe I'm missing something but can anyone tell me why a woman could justifiably receive a tax credit equivalent to almost twice what her male counterparts would receive?

banquo

maybe

kunst nugget wrote: »

John Waters?

...Touche.

He's liked a in that community because for years he was the only person with a public profile consistently saying that father's rights were nothing short of a shameful scandal. Probably the only thing I'd agree with him on, ever - including thinking marrying Sinead O'Connor was a good idea!

banquo

maybe

Sleepy wrote: »

Maybe I'm somehow mis-construing this but I was reading through the Flat Rate (employment) expenses today and came across the following:


Maybe I'm missing something but can anyone tell me why a woman could justifiably receive a tax credit equivalent to almost twice what her male counterparts would receive?

I'd be surprised if that wasn't heavily context-dependent. Though I'm now curious!