Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*
Options
Comments
-
-
-
H3llR4iser wrote: »Absolutely, there IS that kind of problem as well, but I decided not to consider it on purpose or it would derail and delegitimize the whole conversation. Someone who equates a question, a polite invite or a look as "harassment" is beyond reasonable discussion.
Except, that's the world we live in today. #metoo saw to that.. and TBF it was happening long before metoo started.People can see anything in anything if they look hard enough; The problem is that somehow, in the 21st century society has forgotten this concept. So everything is "problematic", everything is "sexist" and so on.
Everything for "women" is problematic, sexist, and so on. Not so for men. There's that double standard at play, and it constantly amazes me just how much people encourage that double standard to continue.
Note. Women being a vague term here. Naturally, I don't mean all women.To be fully honest, I'm just of the idea that the real arseholes are just that, total wastes of oxygen. I've never frequented any of these characters, but I've randomly met a few over the years, and I stand by my opinion.
The more "borderline" types, or even better, the "pretend arseholes" are most likely a completely different story...
It's not that simple. I'll give you an example. I have a good friend who is very much a player. He's in his early 40s, built like a tank, absolutely gorgeous in that George Clooney way. He's aged extremely well, and dresses to suit his style. His approach to women is a basic niceness, but they're essentially fast food to him. Disposable. He's very charming initially, but when he's finished, he's already forgotten them. Now.. to most women he'd be an absolute prick. However, he's active in a variety of charities, works part time in a shelter for abused children, volunteers for all manner of activities. I also know that his mother was an abusive alcoholic, who drove out the father, and put the son in hospital a few times before he finally left.
People aren't as simple as modern society likes to make them out to be. People are complicated. But it's worth considering what guided them to be the person they are today.
That friend I described. He fell in love once, just after I met him originally. Loved the woman to bits. Title contender for best boyfriend ever. And she cheated on him with a variety of guys.
We should be paying more attention to the influence that women have over men. If women can harp on about toxic masculinity, and that's something that's here to stay, then we should be able to point out the range of negatives that go with women's behaviors.It's a possibility, although not an excuse, but I think I get what you mean - and I'd try to put a slight spin on it: in my view, most of the "pretend arseholes" I mentioned above, behave like that because one way or the other, they have been led to believe it works - rather than for "retaliation".
Almost invariably, the media (even in this rampant PC age) pushes the image of the popular guy, who gets all of the women's attention, as being quite a bit of an arsehole. Moreover, plenty of young lads who struggle to get any consideration from girls will have a classmate or friend who, while being a bit of a scum, has plenty of success.
Factor in the lack of awareness, lack of guidance and information, and the guy will most likely assume that it IS the arseholery being successful, rather than maybe other factors - perhaps the successful guy is witty, or he is popular/has status, or he's just plain good looking. This is pretty much the foundation of all of the PUA-shoite that's out there - "be an absoule b@astard, and you'll be grand".
This lack of awareness strikes both sides - again, helped in no small part by the media and stereotypes; a LOT of women, even in the adult age, don't grasp the concept that men have feelings and dignity just as they do.
There's a lot more to PUA that this new breed declares, or those on boards believe. I know, I was very active for a few years, knowing many of the big PUA "gurus". Like anything there's some good, and a lot of bad. The problem being that the scum invariably floats to the top, and that's what people focus on.
And no... There's a lot of PUA ****e grounded in NLP, Psychology, Cognitive science, hypnosis, meditation, etc.
It's also grounded on a lot of the crap that women do instinctively... and society gives them a free pass for doing it... but it works.. hence the desire by PUA to copy them.
All the same, my point wasn't about PUA. It was about the lack of appreciation and awareness for the behavior of women, and how that behavior affects the development of men.
I did my stint as a bastasd. Oddly enough, not during my PUA period, but well afterwards, and it came from a series of experiences with women who were pure poison. Now, I'm a better person, because I learned from my mistakes, and started holding women to a standard they don't apply themselves to... and therefore, my experiences improved immeasurably.0 -
-
Deleted User wrote: »Except, that's the world we live in today. #metoo saw to that.. and TBF it was happening long before metoo started.
Yep, that's it indeed, but what exactly can be done about it? It's been left unchecked for too long - as you say, it had already started well before the whole #MeToo thing. I have known more than one woman who'd react to somebody asking her to go for a drink in the same way you or I would react to stepping onto a giant mound of bovine excrement, and it was quite some time ago, well before Twitter & C. even existed. The only way forward, to me, seems to be about mitigating the personal impact of this and basically wait for the storm to weather itself out (history teaches - these extreme 'waves' are always counteracted - which is worrysome for the future, but in a different way).
The issue being...it's to be entirely expected that, most of the times, an invitation gets refused. It's normal, it's life. Yet there's a chasm between "No, thanks." and "EEEWW, don't talk to me, creep!" or even equating an invitation with "assault".. Provided,ofc, that the initial request was civilized.
Rest of the post - I won't reply point by point as it'd take forever, but yeah, pretty much what I was meaning, exposed in a more elegant way - of course there are variations.
One thing, however:Deleted User wrote: »I'll give you an example. I have a good friend who is very much a player. He's in his early 40s, built like a tank, absolutely gorgeous in that George Clooney way. He's aged extremely well, and dresses to suit his style. His approach to women is a basic niceness, but they're essentially fast food to him. Disposable. He's very charming initially, but when he's finished, he's already forgotten them. Now.. to most women he'd be an absolute prick. However, he's active in a variety of charities, works part time in a shelter for abused children, volunteers for all manner of activities.
The way I meant it, he wouldn't even feature on the "arseholishness" scale, not even remotely. For whatever reason, he's made a choice. He doesn't go around shouting cr@p from the window of his white van, he doesn't seem to be crossing paths with guys and going "ya lookin' at me?" 'cause he's itching for a brawl; As far as I can extrapolate, when he is with these women, he behaves fairly and doesn't abuse them. He generally behaves like a decent human being (actually, better than most it would seem) who is not sold on the whole "marriage, picket fences, 2.7 kids" contract.
If the women he gets with go at the whole process with the "Disney fairytale" firmly set as the one and only goal, it's not his fault and doesn't give them any right to call him a prick or whatever else; I guess in their view, he's been "leading them on". But in order to be "led on", you need to be willing to go with it.
Now this of course it's a redctio ad absurdum for the sake of not writing a new chapter of Dante's comedy, but it all closely reminds me that of kids highly anticipating the release of a game; They get to the point they make the whole game up in their heads. Then it comes out, it's different from their own imaginary version, and they complain, leave bad reviews and ask for refunds. Doesn't work like that.0 -
Advertisement
-
H3llR4iser wrote: »Yep, that's it indeed, but what exactly can be done about it? It's been left unchecked for too long - as you say, it had already started well before the whole #MeToo thing. I have known more than one woman who'd react to somebody asking her to go for a drink in the same way you or I would react to stepping onto a giant mound of bovine excrement, and it was quite some time ago, well before Twitter & C. even existed. The only way forward, to me, seems to be about mitigating the personal impact of this and basically wait for the storm to weather itself out (history teaches - these extreme 'waves' are always counteracted - which is worrysome for the future, but in a different way).
Oh, I see it going the opposite way with a return to more Victorian habits, and behaviors... all brought about by women themselves.
As for me, I opted out. There were other reasons for doing so, but I moved abroad to a region where this crap isn't happening.The issue being...it's to be entirely expected that, most of the times, an invitation gets refused. It's normal, it's life. Yet there's a chasm between "No, thanks." and "EEEWW, don't talk to me, creep!" or even equating an invitation with "assault".. Provided,ofc, that the initial request was civilized.
Agreed.
Actually, I think we're mostly on the same wavelength here.0 -
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
Most women are sexist.
I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:
Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist
0 -
I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:
Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist
clear cut case of rape to me. his consent is dependant on her being on birth control. remove the brithcontrol and you remove the consent. same as removing a condom0 -
I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:
Most people (both men and women) have some degrees of sexism as part of their personal development. For them, it's likely to some minor stereotypes that they've created for themselves or taken from social conditioning. That's not to say that having those sexist attitudes are negative.. most people manage to keep those attitudes to themselves. Just as most people keep their racist attitudes to themselves.
There's a tendency in our modern society to jump to extremes, but more importantly for double standards to be applied. For women, or rather feminists, it's the belief of subconscious bias that men will have towards women, without any real acceptance that women will have the same subconscious biases.. or conscious biases. We have allowed a society where women are allowed to be openly sexist towards men, but for a man to display (or even not display) sexism, is the height of indecent behavior.Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist
Double standards. They get angry because women are victims, and nothing can be allowed to suggest that they've created this situation for themselves. Men are the aggressors. There's no middle ground. No chance of getting women to acknowledge the double standards, because they have been conditioned by society to believe that they are special.
They might be special because they're beautiful.. but because they're beautiful, they're objectified. Or men judge them on their appearance. If they're smart, then men don't appreciate their intelligence and are threatened by them. If they're ambitious or competitive, then men are threatened by that too, and won't treat them by the same standards that are applied to other men... but then, women are different to men, and should be treated in a better way, but... and so on. Double standards. And they're not going to give them up. Why would they, when society places women on such pedestals... ?
There's no point in showing just how protected women are in a western society. The sheer range of opportunities that are available to them based solely on their gender. The range of benefits whether it's less expensive health insurance, or cheaper car insurance, or simply the perception of value due to being potentially mothers.. There really is no point because women are victims. That's not going to change any time soon.
All the same, I do suggest that men need to start standing up to this crap, and actively seeking a more equal society where people are not being judged on the basis of their gender... but women will fight against such a movement, because there are a lot of benefits in not being equal, and the ball is completely in their court.0 -
I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:
Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist
Don't stop, when good men stand aside evil prospers0 -
-
-
-
‘It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away’
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/it-was-glorious-to-beat-a-man-up-and-see-him-run-away-1.4609295%3fmode=amp
A man. Any man? Certainly reads like it.
If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time
The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -
She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
One eyed Jack wrote: »If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time
The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -
She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.
It was glorious to beat a plumber up.
It was glorious to beat the plumber up.
What does each mean in your opinion?0 -
-
-
One eyed Jack wrote: »If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time
The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -
She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.
Why is this seen as acceptable (both the groping and the subsequent assault)? If the sexes were changed a man couldn't begin to think they could respond similarly let alone that they could consider boasting about it in the expectation of social approval.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement