Rules of the game

but1er

Can someone please clear up! Dangerous tackle rule from FIFA!

This nani tackle the arguments are never ending and no one knows the rule

Any help be great

flas

Karate kicks are a big no no...

but1er

flas wrote: »

Karate kicks are a big no no...

Yeah but was looking at ball man came from blindside

unkymo

Posted in the match thread earlier on;

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12-en.pdf

flas

You still can't jump with your foot raised that high on a football pitch..."blindside" doesn't come into the question,its a pitch,there is always gona be someone around,21 other players to be exact,unless one of those has kicked someone else in the stomach then it will be 20 other players....and a ref.

FatherTed

flas wrote: »

You still can't jump with your foot raised that high on a football pitch..."blindside" doesn't come into the question,its a pitch,there is always gona be someone around,21 other players to be exact,unless one of those has kicked someone else in the stomach then it will be 20 other players....and a ref.

So bicycle kicks should be banned then? Those are high kicks.

The problem is in the interpretation of the Dangerous Tackle rule. How is Nani's high foot any worse than Arbeloa's studs in tackle on Evra's leg or Lopez punching Vidic?

Will I Amnt

flas wrote: »

You still can't jump with your foot raised that high on a football pitch..."blindside" doesn't come into the question,its a pitch,there is always gona be someone around,21 other players to be exact,unless one of those has kicked someone else in the stomach then it will be 20 other players....and a ref.

Rooney's amazing goal against City, Ibra's against England.
These are figments of my imagination???

tolosenc

It's a matter of interpretation.

It was either:

a) Reckless, which has an entry level of a yellow card, and can be a straight red. When you lunge for the ball it's your responsibility not to endanger your opponent.

b) Serious foul play, "A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play". Intent is irrelevant here. Serious foul play is a red card offence.

(Taken from Law 12)

Nani was certainly guilty of a, IMO. Option b is just so broad that you could apply it to nearly anything.

Situations like this show that football could benefit from a rugby/ice hockey style sin binning system.

tolosenc

FatherTed wrote: »

So bicycle kicks should be banned then? Those are high kicks.

You can certainly raise your foot that high. But if you do and you wind up kicking someone, be prepared for the consequences.

Neither Rooney nor Ibra came close to kicking anyone. Nani caught Arbeloa in the ribs, and Arbeloa had jumped a few inches off the ground.

764dak

tolosenc wrote: »

Situations like this show that football could benefit from a rugby/ice hockey style sin binning system.

They should also have unlimited substitutions.

Xavi6

I don't think Nani should have been sent off. Both players had eyes for the ball and made an honest attempt to win it. Unfortunately for Nani he made contact with Arbeloa and it ended up being dangerous. It should be a yellow card and a free kick, that's it.

The laws probably say different and make my opinion redundant but I can't be arsed picking through them, there's enough over analysis going on to last a life time.

Lovely Bloke

This thread is a farce from the start.

There are NO RULES. There are LAWS.

A rule is hard and fast, black and white - you can do this, you can't do this. If you do "A" then "Z" will happen.

Football is not like that. No rulebook, no rules.

A LAW is interpreted by a judge - in this case the referee. Same as the laws in any country, or court case. The judge weighs up the evidence, and passes judgement on his interpretation of the law.

The referee is the same as the judge, the referee IS the judge.

Do refs sometimes get it wrong - yeah they do, but there's nothing anyone can do about that. Why? Because every single situation is different. you cannot write "rules" for football, because you simply cannot definitely say that Situation A is the same as Situation B, therefore Rule 1 says X should happen.

This is especially true when it comes to things like fouls - not one foul or tackle is ever like any other foul or tackle that came before.

Sappy404

Nani's high foot (especially at that pace, and without him looking to see if anyone else was running on to the high ball) could be considered dangerous and/or reckless so the referee is within his rights to send him off. However, when there was clearly no intent and in reality no harm done, you'd like to think the referee would be a bit lenient and just book him.

cournioni

TheNinthGate wrote: »

This thread is a farce from the start.

There are NO RULES. There are LAWS.

A rule is hard and fast, black and white - you can do this, you can't do this. If you do "A" then "Z" will happen.

Football is not like that. No rulebook, no rules.

A LAW is interpreted by a judge - in this case the referee. Same as the laws in any country, or court case. The judge weighs up the evidence, and passes judgement on his interpretation of the law.

The referee is the same as the judge, the referee IS the judge.

Do refs sometimes get it wrong - yeah they do, but there's nothing anyone can do about that. Why? Because every single situation is different. you cannot write "rules" for football, because you simply cannot definitely say that Situation A is the same as Situation B, therefore Rule 1 says X should happen.

This is especially true when it comes to things like fouls - not one foul or tackle is ever like any other foul or tackle that came before.

The judge was shíte last night.

Lovely Bloke

cournioni wrote: »

The judge was shíte last night.

cry me a river tbh, they sometimes get it wrong - oh noes.

cournioni

TheNinthGate wrote: »

cry me a river tbh, they sometimes get it wrong - oh noes.

Wrong = Shíte.

No tears here. Its his job to make the right decisions, if he cannot do that then he is shíte.

Lovely Bloke

cournioni wrote: »

Wrong = Shíte.

No tears here. Its his job to make the right decisions, if he cannot do that then he is shíte.

Correct, his career as a top ref is probably over.

JUSTICE!!!!

I understand you are hurting, you must be gutted.

Take solace that the next shíte ref will probably give a decision in your favour.

You can post in three threads about that one too.

cournioni

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Correct, his career as a top ref is probably over.

JUSTICE!!!!

I understand you are hurting, you must be gutted.

Take solace that the next shíte ref will probably give a decision in your favour.

You can post in three threads about that one too.

Yes I am gutted, what supporter wouldn't be? I feel for the players and the management who had everything spot on last night to be undone by something completely outside of their control. It has happened to every club numerous occasions but at this level, when the stakes are so high, such glaring mistakes should not happen.

This referee deserves to have his career at this level ended after such a woeful display, after all, if managers and even players were to make such errors they would be likely to lose their jobs also.

Nice of you to stalk my posts by the way.

Lovely Bloke

cournioni wrote: »

Nice of you to stalk my posts by the way.

lol

Jaysis, have a cup of decaf or something, I'm reading the forum, same as you.

Stalking, that's a good one, I have to say.

kingtubby

cournioni wrote: »

Wrong = Shíte.

No tears here. Its his job to make the right decisions, if he cannot do that then he is shíte.

I think you will find all refs make mistakes at some time. Does that make them all 'shíte'. Its a harder job then it looks and he only gets to see things once.

cournioni

kingtubby wrote: »

I think you will find all refs make mistakes at some time. Does that make them all 'shíte'. Its a harder job then it looks and he only gets to see things once.

He had a shocking game last night. Referee's at the highest level should not make such mistakes at a consistent basis when he has the help of four other officials. It is a hard job for sure, but this is the level he is at, football is a multi million euro business and such mistakes on a consistent basis are not acceptable.

If management performed so poorly do you think they would get away with it? No they wouldn't, and they would be forced to explain their decisions, unlike referees.

kingtubby

cournioni wrote: »

He had a shocking game last night. Referee's at the highest level should not make such mistakes at a consistent basis when he has the help of four other officials. It is a hard job for sure, but this is the level he is at, football is a multi million euro business and such mistakes on a consistent basis are not acceptable.

If management performed so poorly do you think they would get away with it? No they wouldn't, and they would be forced to explain their decisions, unlike referees.

These things get blown out of proportion terribly though. Refs have these kind of games all the time in the PL and because the matches aren't as important people do not remember.
Of course referees performances should be monitored, and they are, but its in the nature of the job that bad decisions will be made.

but1er

tolosenc wrote: »

It's a matter of interpretation.

It was either:

a) Reckless, which has an entry level of a yellow card, and can be a straight red. When you lunge for the ball it's your responsibility not to endanger your opponent.

b) Serious foul play, "A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play". Intent is irrelevant here. Serious foul play is a red card offence.

(Taken from Law 12)

Nani was certainly guilty of a, IMO. Option b is just so broad that you could apply it to nearly anything.

Situations like this show that football could benefit from a rugby/ice hockey style sin binning system.

Thank you for clearing this up!

So he deserved to be sent off in this case!

JimsAlterEgo

but1er wrote: »

Thank you for clearing this up!

So he deserved to be sent off in this case!

it wasn't a tackle though, that's what makes the area so grey.

RVD420

TheNinthGate wrote: »

lol

Jaysis, have a cup of decaf or something, I'm reading the forum, same as you.

Stalking, that's a good one, I have to say.

Boards.ie
Now ye're stalkin' :pac:

event

cournioni wrote: »

He had a shocking game last night. Referee's at the highest level should not make such mistakes at a consistent basis when he has the help of four other officials. It is a hard job for sure, but this is the level he is at, football is a multi million euro business and such mistakes on a consistent basis are not acceptable.

If management performed so poorly do you think they would get away with it? No they wouldn't, and they would be forced to explain their decisions, unlike referees.

How are managers forced to explain their decisions?

Kolido

flas wrote: »

You still can't jump with your foot raised that high on a football pitch..."blindside" doesn't come into the question,its a pitch,there is always gona be someone around,21 other players to be exact,unless one of those has kicked someone else in the stomach then it will be 20 other players....and a ref.

As has been already pointed out, you can raise your foot to control the ball or try a bicyle kick, but you have to be sure there is no one around you to get hit. It's done nearly every game. But if you try this without checking that no one is near you and end up hitting someone then it is wreckless play. This looks to be the case with Nani last nite so I think the red card was right.
He was careless to raise his foot that high without looking to see if anyone was near him. Obviously he didnt mean to hit him but he was careless, that is why he was sent off.
This is my interpretation of the rule and it makes sense to me.

weldoninhio

cournioni wrote: »

He had a shocking game last night. Referee's at the highest level should not make such mistakes at a consistent basis when he has the help of four other officials. It is a hard job for sure, but this is the level he is at, football is a multi million euro business and such mistakes on a consistent basis are not acceptable.

If management performed so poorly do you think they would get away with it? No they wouldn't, and they would be forced to explain their decisions, unlike referees.

He made some bad decisions alright, like disallowing Higuains first half goal for no reason, not spotting RVP in an offside position in the build up to Uniteds goal and not spotting Rafaels handball off the line, which should have resulted in a red card as it stopped a clear goalscoring opportunity, but these things tend to even themselves out over a season.

inforfun

Not sure if he got it wrong last night.

If it had been Arbeloa taking out nani that way, a red card would have been the correct decision for a lot people here.

adox

inforfun wrote: »

Not sure if he got it wrong last night.

If it had been Arbeloa taking out nani that way, a red card would have been the correct decision for a lot people here.

It wouldnt. It just wouldnt. its a cheap argument. Maybe some but a lot?

Also he didnt "take him out" he caught him by accident. It happens.

No matter how much analysis you do it was never a red card no matter what team he was playing for.

Kudos to Liverpool supporters/City supporter etc who had the decency to call it as it should have been on the match thread and shame on the spoilers who are still spouting nonsense there.

I naively thought there would be a level of common sense on there, and gloating of course, which is part and parcel but how wrong i was.

Kolido

adox wrote: »

It wouldnt. It just wouldnt. its a cheap argument. Maybe some but a lot?

Also he didnt "take him out" he caught him by accident. It happens.

No matter how much analysis you do it was never a red card no matter what team he was playing for.

Kudos to Liverpool supporters/City supporter etc who had the decency to call it as it should have been on the match thread and shame on the spoilers who are still spouting nonsense there.

I naively thought there would be a level of common sense on there, and gloating of course, which is part and parcel but how wrong i was.

The accident happened because Nani was careless. Careless in the sense that he didn't check if there was anyone near him before lifting his foot that high.

alchemist33

This summarises things nicely

http://www.football365.com/ref365/8543296/Ref365

weldoninhio

adox wrote: »

It wouldnt. It just wouldnt. its a cheap argument. Maybe some but a lot?

Also he didnt "take him out" he caught him by accident. It happens.

No matter how much analysis you do it was never a red card no matter what team he was playing for.

Kudos to Liverpool supporters/City supporter etc who had the decency to call it as it should have been on the match thread and shame on the spoilers who are still spouting nonsense there.

I naively thought there would be a level of common sense on there, and gloating of course, which is part and parcel but how wrong i was.

I think the fact that the referee took out his little red card, showed it to Nani, and sent him off makes the bold bit look a little bit foolish.

inforfun

adox wrote: »

I naively thought there would be a level of common sense on there, and gloating of course, which is part and parcel but how wrong i was.

I am Dutch, Feyenoord fan, i have no special feelings for any of the English teams but do favour the ones who have former Feyenoord players. So last night i hoped Man Utd would go through for Van Persie's sake.
No gloating from me.

MisterAnarchy

tolosenc wrote: »

Neither Rooney nor Ibra came close to kicking anyone. Nani caught Arbeloa in the ribs, and Arbeloa had jumped a few inches off the ground.

Not to be pedantic but Nani caught him in the arm not the ribs .
Arbeloa feigned injury and seemed to be clutching his ribs on his right hand side despite the fact he was caught in the left arm.

adox

weldoninhio wrote: »

I think the fact that the referee took out his little red card, showed it to Nani, and sent him off makes the bold bit look a little bit foolish.

It doesnt really. its a saying and I`m sure you knew what I meant but carry on.

adox

inforfun wrote: »

I am Dutch, Feyenoord fan, i have no special feelings for any of the English teams but do favour the ones who have former Feyenoord players. So last night i hoped Man Utd would go through for Van Persie's sake.
No gloating from me.

I was in Feyenoords stadium, I think it was a couple of years ago, was an anniversary for the club I think. It was pre season, a couple of matches on. Feyenoord obviously, Celtic, Spurs and I cant remember the last team. Cracking atmosphere.

Have a mate who is a season ticket holder for Den Haag so went with him and a couple of his Feyenoord mates.:)

inforfun

adox wrote: »

I was in Feyenoords stadium, I think it was a couple of years ago, was an anniversary for the club I think. It was pre season, a couple of matches on. Feyenoord obviously, Celtic, Spurs and I cant remember the last team. Cracking atmosphere.

Have a mate who is a season ticket holder for Den Haag so went with him and a couple of his Feyenoord mates.:)

I might be a bit biased but i think only La Bombonera can beat the atmosphere of the Feyenoord Stadium.
European nights were my favourite nights in the past. Not anymore since Dutch teams are now eliminated by obscure Eastern European teams with half or full criminals with too much money at the realm.

It actually popped up in my mind last night, after the sending off. If that would have happened in Rotterdam, the stadium would have gotten Feyenoord through.
Of course i was watching tv so it might only come over as such but i found the crowd rather "quiet"

Edit; 4th team was Dortmund. The 3 teams feyenoord beat in European cup finals.

niallo27

adox wrote: »

It wouldnt. It just wouldnt. its a cheap argument. Maybe some but a lot?

Also he didnt "take him out" he caught him by accident. It happens.

No matter how much analysis you do it was never a red card no matter what team he was playing for.

Kudos to Liverpool supporters/City supporter etc who had the decency to call it as it should have been on the match thread and shame on the spoilers who are still spouting nonsense there.

I naively thought there would be a level of common sense on there, and gloating of course, which is part and parcel but how wrong i was.

So are you basically saying well done to anyone that agrees with you and shame on on anyone that disagrees with the desicion.

adox

niallo27 wrote: »

So are you basically saying well done to anyone that agrees with you and shame on on anyone that disagrees with the desicion.

Yes.

Reg'stoy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Not to be pedantic but Nani caught him in the arm not the ribs .
Arbeloa feigned injury and seemed to be clutching his ribs on his right hand side despite the fact he was caught in the left arm.

:rolleyes: So much so that the studs on Nani's right boot needed medical attention. You might want to look at the tackle again on youtube, Nani also feigns injury in the hopes of avoiding a card.

He knew straight away that he was going to get a card. Maybe if he had got to his feet and not done a dying swan, the ref might have made a quick yellow card decision, rather than having a couple of minutes to think about it.

I happen to agree with Roy Keane and his comments on ITV, dangerous play is dangerous play. Every sending off can change a match and shouldn't be seen as a reason not to send someone off.