Dublin Marathon 2013: Mod Note #316 NO RACE SWAPS

drquirky

28064212 wrote: »

Who mentioned "refusing" visas? They aren't inviting international elites, and if international elites choose to do it off their own bat, they have to organise their own visas, rather than receive assistance from DCM

I'd imagine its dead easy for a Kenyan/ Ethiopean to bag an Irish entry visa.

TRR

Clum wrote: »

If there are no foreign elites racing then Dublin will play out like a typical championship marathon and produce a slow time. Apart from Kenneally's 2.13.55 in Amsterdam 2 years ago and Fagan's 2.14.06 back in 2008 no Irish man has gone under 2.15 in ages. I think the last one was Mark Carroll in 2002.

With no Russians or Kenyans to chase after any leading Irish men will more than likely bunch together until 16 or 18 miles and then start racing. I'd say first Irish man home on Monday will run about 2.18.

Hehir ran 1.05 in Cardiff a couple of weeks ago so he's in good form and, I agree, is in with a good chance of winning. No idea If Kenneally is racing Dublin and Pollock is focused on XC so without those two I can't see if being too quick (quick for elite standards).

Keneally ran a 1.04 half earlier this month so if he is racing I'm pretty sure he'd beat Sweeney and Hehir.

Keneally is definitely not running. I think some of the lads are going for QTs for euro champs next year so I suspect it won't be as pedestrian as it might have been if it were just a championship race. Pollock is definitely not running either.

28064212

drquirky wrote: »

I'd imagine its dead easy for a Kenyan/ Ethiopean to bag an Irish entry visa.

But not the DCM's responsibility.

They aren't actively blocking anybody from running. They simply aren't providing extra assistance that they used to provide.

Trampas

Will the emergency information on the back of the number really sign up form for Airtricty Gas and Electricity for your home? :rolleyes:

Murph_D

drquirky wrote: »

and that they put it out to agents/ managers etc that they wouldn't be issuing foreign visas this year.

I'm sure these agents and managers know that this just means they would not be actively supporting such visa applications, and would not be expected to do so if there is no funding available to fly in, accommodate and otherwise support invited applicants. In the absence of funding, why should the race organisers provide administrative services for such specialised purposes? (I admit it would be a low blow to actively oppose an independent visa application; however there's no reason to suspect that.)

Peckham

The way that Eugene Coppinger has been quoted in the article really makes it seem like an incredibly odd situation.

It could be poorly written, but the way it’s phrased seems like two decisions were made (hence the use of the word “either” at the end of the quote) – one not to invite international elites, and another to have a domestic-only field. What is odd to me is how a race organiser “decides” to have a domestic-only field (if this was the case)? Surely this is not within the control of a race organiser, but instead is open to market forces (i.e. prize money, esteem of winning a marathon etc.), and if an international elite wants to travel (at their own expense/logistics) they are free to do so.

A €30k car is a pretty significant prize. It’s very surprising that many of the faster Europeans are not chomping at the bit for a go at this given that the road ahead of them will be clear of Africans.

“During the summer, even after Airtricity came on board as sponsors, we decided not to change our decision not to invite any international elite runners, for a couple of reasons. We’d already informed the various agents and managers that we wouldn’t inviting international runners this year, wouldn’t be providing a visa, so that they could opt for other races, as required.

“We’d also informed our own Irish athletes, and those involved in the Dublin Marathon Mission, that it would be a domestic field only, which gave them an extra reason to target Dublin this year, and in fairness we didn’t want to go back on that decision, either.”

RayCun

I don't know, I can understand the decision process.

Inviting and accommodating international elites takes a fair amount of money, apart from the prize fund. When DCM was short of money because they didn't have sponsorship they decided to cut that out.
So they told the agents and international federations that their runners should pick another marathon this autumn, there wouldn't be support for them in Dublin, and to underline that, said they wouldn't issue visas.
Then they told all the Irish runners there wouldn't be any international competition, to drum up more interest there, get a stronger field.

When Airtricity came on board, it was less than six months to the marathon. They could have gone back to the agents and federations and said, "listen lads, we've changed our minds, come on over", but at that stage most elites would have picked their autumn marathons already. And if they did that, any Irish runners who picked Dublin on the basis that it would be an Irish elite field would be pissed off.

nerraw1111

drquirky wrote: »

What? Dude- just cause you don't agree with something doesn't make it trolling. Merely commenting that not issuing visas to "foreign elites" isn't a good thing. Its one thing to want an Irish winner, its another to refuse visas to runners from good running countries in order to create one.

To whit: I'm from Boston, the last winner of the Boston Marathon actually from the city was 30 or 40 yrs ago. Would I like someone from Boston to win? Yes. Do I think we should stop inviting Kenyans et. al. to run so that we can have a winner from Boston, absolutely not. Read the article inked above- I'm not making this up just responding to what the IT reported today.

Here is the link again: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/joe-sweeney-could-mark-marathon-debut-as-first-domestic-winner-since-1993-1.1569628

That came across a bit harsh. Apologies. My understanding is that DCM aren't refusing visas. They simply cut the elite fund due to financial pressures. They then told the Irish runners "here's your chance to win the DCM."

I don't think they are discouraging elite runners. They just didn't go chasing them after the initial decision to cut the elites. That said, it's a win-win situation for DCM this year.

robinph

It will probably be a known Irish winner, but any currently unknown European who is on the verge of getting on their own countries elite program could turn up and claim the prize. Someone of that standard would probably be looking more to the likes of a nice flat Amsterdam marathon in order to get the time, rather than a soggy and mildly hilly Dublin where they could bag a win.

You've also got that it's on a Monday and people who are not yet on an elite program elsewhere in Europe will most likely be having to hold down a full time job as well as the rest of their training, so taking a long weekend to try and win an electric car isn't going to be top of their priority list when they were looking for a race to do a few months back.

Clum

TRR wrote: »

I think some of the lads are going for QTs for euro champs next year so I suspect it won't be as pedestrian as it might have been if it were just a championship race.

That's good. 2.17 required for the men, 2.38 for the ladies. If they push it then Hehir, and hopefully Sweeney, should be able to hit that mark.

drquirky

Peckham wrote: »

The way that Eugene Coppinger has been quoted in the article really makes it seem like an incredibly odd situation.

It could be poorly written, but the way it’s phrased seems like two decisions were made (hence the use of the word “either” at the end of the quote) – one not to invite international elites, and another to have a domestic-only field. What is odd to me is how a race organiser “decides” to have a domestic-only field (if this was the case)? Surely this is not within the control of a race organiser, but instead is open to market forces (i.e. prize money, esteem of winning a marathon etc.), and if an international elite wants to travel (at their own expense/logistics) they are free to do so.

A €30k car is a pretty significant prize. It’s very surprising that many of the faster Europeans are not chomping at the bit for a go at this given that the road ahead of them will be clear of Africans.

Thanks Peckham you summed it up better than I could and (as belies my New England temperament) I came across a bit harsh. ;)I guess the article just struck me as odd- I understand all the pressures on organisers around money/ sponsors etc etc...I just would take issue with a policy that specifically excludes foreign elites in the interest of having an Irish winner.

To be fair I'm totally willing to admit that it was more than likely a journalistic error rather than any silliness on the part of the organisers- it wouldn't be the first time the press has taken a quote and made it seem worse that it was by removing context around it...

One point though, that I think deserves to be made is that many of us bitched (and rightly so) in another thread about the crowd behind Rock and Roll HM pulling funding for elites in a bunch of their races- I just think that bares mentioning here as we can't really have our cake and eat it too.

digger2d2

drquirky wrote: »

(as belies my New England temperament) I came across a bit harsh. .

Have a Canadian beer and you'll be fine :D

drquirky

digger2d2 wrote: »

Have a Canadian beer and you'll be fine :D

**** Canada....fifty ****ing first state, America's ****ing hat.

Murph_D

drquirky wrote: »

One point though, that I think deserves to be made is that many of us bitched (and rightly so) in another thread about the crowd behind Rock and Roll HM pulling funding for elites in a bunch of their races- I just think that bares mentioning here as we can't really have our cake and eat it too.

Hear, hear. I was just thinking the same thing earlier.

tunguska

ultrapercy wrote: »

The possible absence of Africans/Euros makes an Irish winner of the womens race almost a certainty.

Yeah for sure. And I'd go one further by saying Maria Mc Cambridge should start making room in her driveway for a new jammer. Cant see any other woman coming within 10 minutes of her.

nerraw1111

murphd77 wrote: »

Hear, hear. I was just thinking the same thing earlier.

One is for profit group, the other isn't.

From letsrun

"We have a problem with the Competitor Group – a for profit company owned by the $2.8 billion Calera Capital - owning many of the biggest races across the country, getting millions of dollars in public subsidies (think tax dollars, see here, here, here, and here), being allowed to close down public streets for hours on end, without doing anything to give back to the sport of running."

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/09/no-thanks-we-dont-need-a-private-equity-firm-running-the-vast-majority-of-big-running-events-in-this-country/

Krusty_Clown

drquirky wrote: »

One point though, that I think deserves to be made is that many of us bitched (and rightly so) in another thread about the crowd behind Rock and Roll HM pulling funding for elites in a bunch of their races- I just think that bares mentioning here as we can't really have our cake and eat it too.

The bottom line is that if DCM wants to attract top Kenyan, Ethiopian and Eastern European talent, they have to fund it, including travel, hotels, meals, expenses, etc. This year, they could not afford to do so, because sponsorship had been cut. What is the expectation here? Should DCM have made cuts in other areas, in order to accommodate elite athletes in from other countries? Should they have water in cups instead of bottles, so 20 elite athletes have an all expenses paid shot at the prize-pool?

The bottom line is that there are thousands of visitors from other countries participating in the Dublin marathon on Monday. There just aren't any free rides this year. Unfortunate position, but a reality. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make, and if the funding is available next year, then we'll have our all-expenses paid elite field back next year.

Hard Worker

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah for sure. And I'd go one further by saying Maria Mc Cambridge should start making room in her driveway for a new jammer. Cant see any other woman coming within 10 minutes of her.

You should do your homework

Hard Worker

Just to clarify a few things here:
If you are racing outside your own country, you must notify your federation. Elite athletes must get clearance from BOTH federations. If a Kenyan wants to run here, he will have to clear it with Athletics Kenya and then Athletics Ireland. Athletics Kenya will not give clearance unless there is an official invitation from the organisers. If the organisers aren't issuing invitations, then athletes cannot "just appear on the starting line".
On the question of British or European athletes turning up: the Welsh mens champion will be running. I didn't notice too many British athletes finishing well up in London and the European standard isn't great either. None have applied for invitations.
The Dublin Marathon do not issue visas. Visas are issued by the Department of Justice.
On the question of TV: there will be no TV highlights this year.

tunguska

Hard Worker wrote: »

You should do your homework

I honestly cant think of any other Irish female athlete whos running DCM and whos capable of even getting close to Maria.
So what do you know that I dont?

Hard Worker

tunguska wrote: »

I honestly cant think of any other Irish female athlete whos running DCM and whos capable of even getting close to Maria.
So what do you know that I dont?

Give me a shout when you are in the RDS. To be honest, it'll probably be a two horse race.

tunguska

Hard Worker wrote: »

Give me a shout when you are in the RDS. To be honest, it'll probably be a two horse race.

Yeah absolutely I'll be down there saturday afternoon.

eoinín

Peckham wrote: »

A €30k car is a pretty significant prize. It’s very surprising that many of the faster Europeans are not chomping at the bit for a go at this.

Sure most of them would have no use for a right hand drive car

opus

Best of luck to everyone running next Monday!

A friend of mine at work is deep in taper madness at the moment and has turned into a seething mass of self-doubt but I'm sure she along with everyone else will have a great day.

chavezychavez

opus wrote: »

Best of luck to everyone running next Monday!

A friend of mine at work is deep in taper madness at the moment and has turned into a seething mass of self-doubt but I'm sure she along with everyone else will have a great day.

My taper week involves RICEing the hell out of a slight sting in the knee from my old friend: the IT band. It hasn't actually gone wrong as such and I've no pain just a slight sting, but my head is telling me that its all over for me, it'll go on the day and I'll be found sobbing under the Belfield flyover.

We should start incorporating counselling sessions into warm down after the LSR's. We're a neurotic bunch us marathon runners.

TFBubendorfer

chavezychavez wrote: »

My taper week involves RICEing the hell out of a slight sting in the knee from my old friend: the IT band. It hasn't actually gone wrong as such and I've no pain just a slight sting, but my head is telling me that its all over for me, it'll go on the day and I'll be found sobbing under the Belfield flyover.

We should start incorporating counselling sessions into warm down after the LSR's. We're a neurotic bunch us marathon runners.

A taper would not be a taper without a plethora of phantom pains

kit3

chavezychavez wrote: »

My taper week involves RICEing the hell out of a slight sting in the knee from my old friend: the IT band. It hasn't actually gone wrong as such and I've no pain just a slight sting, but my head is telling me that its all over for me, it'll go on the day and I'll be found sobbing under the Belfield flyover.

We should start incorporating counselling sessions into warm down after the LSR's. We're a neurotic bunch us marathon runners.

Might need a separate thread on the main forum :P

Best of luck on Monday - hope it holds together for you.

irlirishkev

I had to pull out of DCM last year.. the day before. I was utterly heartbroken. Did all my training and felt great right up untill my last long run, when I suffered a nasty groinstrain. Tried a couple of short runs, but to no avail. It was too painful. Spoke to a physio at the expo, and she advised not running.
Went to the pub on the sunday night and had pints. Couldn't even bear to go and show support at the race, I was so depressed.

This year, I waited until the last minute to sign up as I was so skeptical after last year. Training has gone wonderful. Then last week, during taper.. I started getting strange achilles pains. So I've been resting, foaming and stretching since my last run which was on Tuesday. I'm determined to at least give it a shot this year. I'm hoping it's partly just taper madness. I didn't even have a time goal, but was going to go out with the 4.30 pacers, to hold myself at a reasonable pace. Might have to go slower now.. but dammit I'm gonna give it a shot.

Bring on Monday!

event

Folks, what time should I be aiming to be at the start area for, considering I will have to drop my bag off.
People who did it last year, what times were ye there at?

I will be in wave 2, my 2 relations coming up with me will be in wave 3.

Coming up from Louth, so gonna head up the M1, through the tunnel and park in the O2 car park or grand canal theatre one.

Would 8AM be an ok time to be there for o would we need to be earlier?
Will be in my running gear and all

Murph_D

If you're parked by 8 you should be fine but wouldn't leave it any later. Best of luck!