Dublin Marathon 2013: Mod Note #316 NO RACE SWAPS

blockic

Flyer wrote: »

1:28 and 3:25 ?

Lack of endurance is the only explanation. Did you get many long runs in for that 3:25?

I know I ran 1:32 and 3:29 last year but that was due to the fact that I hadn't built up much of an aerobic base at that stage and had only put in two 20 mile runs.

In fact my HM times still don't convert well to my Full Marathon times an will probably take 3 or 4 training cycles before it becomes close to what it should be...these things take time...for some!

PVincent

A fast half followed by a marathon two weeks later is the problem. Racing a half is draining. Two weeks before a marathon is way too close so that explains why you may have run a little slower than your half time might predict. Remember though a good half time does not necessarily convert to the accepted level of double your half time and add 10/15 mins. It is still dependant on training being done. And a lot more can go wrong over the longer distance. If you assume that you will warm up properly and warm down properly (ie 10/15 mins either end of the race) then if you race the half hard, I think that will be a sufficiently tough run on the day. It is accepted that a hard half is as good as a much longer run than the 13 miles and recovery from such a hard race is slower than that of a much longer run because you are hitting the vital muscles a lot harder. I am not sure of any benefit of running 4 miles before it because that then compromises the race, and after a race you will be tired, sore , and stiff , and it's very easy to get cold in a sweaty top , especially if you have raced hard, so tagging extra miles on sore legs is not exactly ideal. Just my humble opinion

Ferris B

PVincent wrote: »

A fast half followed by a marathon two weeks later is the problem. Racing a half is draining. Two weeks before a marathon is way too close so that explains why you may have run a little slower than your half time might predict. Remember though a good half time does not necessarily convert to the accepted level of double your half time and add 10/15 mins. It is still dependant on training being done. And a lot more can go wrong over the longer distance. If you assume that you will warm up properly and warm down properly (ie 10/15 mins either end of the race) then if you race the half hard, I think that will be a sufficiently tough run on the day. It is accepted that a hard half is as good as a much longer run than the 13 miles and recovery from such a hard race is slower than that of a much longer run because you are hitting the vital muscles a lot harder. I am not sure of any benefit of running 4 miles before it because that then compromises the race, and after a race you will be tired, sore , and stiff , and it's very easy to get cold in a sweaty top , especially if you have raced hard, so tagging extra miles on sore legs is not exactly ideal. Just my humble opinion

The Cork marathon was thrown into the mix at a late stage and only one 20 mile was run (as suspected by the boardsie experts) and the race wasn't priority, more an opportunity to run another marathon.

I'm pleased though that the general thinking is that there should be a 3:15 (ish) marathon in me (assuming the corresponding training has been done) as that is the goal.

With regard to the half, the safe option seems to be to do it at marathon pace as per the P&D programme with a few miles thrown in at the end. It will come down to discipline on the day though as to whether I can hold myself back with the pace.

Thanks for all the feed back.

Flyer

Ferris B wrote: »

The Cork marathon was thrown into the mix at a late stage and only one 20 mile was run (as suspected by the boardsie experts) and the race wasn't priority, more an opportunity to run another marathon.

I'm pleased though that the general thinking is that there should be a 3:15 (ish) marathon in me (assuming the corresponding training has been done) as that is the goal.

With regard to the half, the safe option seems to be to do it at marathon pace as per the P&D programme with a few miles thrown in at the end. It will come down to discipline on the day though as to whether I can hold myself back with the pace.

Thanks for all the feed back.

Good explanations there. Managed 3:04:59 last year with a 1:28 PB. I just think there is a much better time there for you and your mind should know that! Maybe there is a better half there for me if I could get my mind to KNOW that!

28064212

Anybody see this nonsense from Focus Ireland? It was a flyer in the half-marathon bag yesterday:


What's the point of going on about the importance of having people in the right place to start, when you're going to do something like this?

yaboya1

Agreed. It's fast becoming my pet hate in any of these mass participation events. I was in the start of the second wave yesterday and I saw a girl trying to get into the first wave. She eventually succeeded by ducking under the tapes they had across the road to separate the waves. I could tell by looking at her she wasn't going to get anywhere near a sub 1:40 and took note of her number. After checking the results I see she did 2:22. A lot of these type of people started in the first wave and then caused clogging down the Khyber road where it narrowed considerably. I cannot understand the logic here. Surely getting passed by almost every runner in the field during the race must be extremely demoralising? Even worse are the walkers who push their way to the front at the start? WTF is that about? I spent the first 2k of the Curragh 10k dodging walkers who had started up the very front!

Joleigh

28064212 wrote: »

Anybody see this nonsense from Focus Ireland? It was a flyer in the half-marathon bag yesterday:


What's the point of going on about the importance of having people in the right place to start, when you're going to do something like this?

It just means people will be at the front of their time wave, not at the front of the whole race. Charities need something to convince people to raise money for them. Especially focus Ireland who raise money to help the homeless, which I think is appropriate seeing as the Dublin marathon will be run on the streets where homeless people have to sleep.

Kurt Godel

Joleigh wrote: »

It just means people will be at the front of their time wave, not at the front of the whole race. Charities need something to convince people to raise money for them. Especially focus Ireland who raise money to help the homeless, which I think is appropriate seeing as the Dublin marathon will be run on the streets where homeless people have to sleep.

The same streets that cancer patients walk, or guide dogs lead the blind, or neglected children roam, or ...?

I remember last year by the front of a packed 4:15 wave, everyone in place and waiting for ages, suddenly a large group of people in the same tshirts come from the side for photos and are brought to the front. Don't know if they were from a charity, or who they were, but it caused a fair bit of ill-feeling from runners who had been patiently waiting for a while, in the correct manner, as they had been directed to do. Do you deserve preferential treatment just because you align yourself to a specific charity? Its a really bad idea.

pistol_75

Kurt Godel wrote: »

The same streets that cancer patients walk, or guide dogs lead the blind, or neglected children roam, or ...?

I remember last year by the front of a packed 4:15 wave, everyone in place and waiting for ages, suddenly a large group of people in the same tshirts come from the side for photos and are brought to the front. Don't know if they were from a charity, or who they were, but it caused a fair bit of ill-feeling from runners who had been patiently waiting for a while, in the correct manner, as they had been directed to do. Do you deserve preferential treatment just because you align yourself to a specific charity? Its a really bad idea.

Is it worse that any Garda runners get to line up at front of wave 1 regardless of their ability?

28064212

pistol_75 wrote: »

Is it worse that any Garda runners get to line up at front of wave 1 regardless of their ability?

They were even worse. My time last year could generously be described as "average", and I still managed to pass out approximately 45 of the Gardai runners (I started counting after the first 5, realising they were horribly out of place).

The only group even worse than that I've found is Drogheda and District AC. They're an Athletics Club. How do they consistently manage to put runners in the first wave who plainly shouldn't be there? Not to mention that groups of them tend to run side by side, so they block half the road

Rantan

28064212 wrote: »

They were even worse. My time last year could generously be described as "average", and I still managed to pass out approximately 45 of the Gardai runners (I started counting after the first 5, realising they were horribly out of place).

The only group even worse than that I've found is Drogheda and District AC. They're an Athletics Club. How do they consistently manage to put runners in the first wave who plainly shouldn't be there? Not to mention that groups of them tend to run side by side, so they block half the road

Im not a guard or related to one..but I know one or two serious marathon runners in that group who have earned the right to be up front..whatever about the plodders...;)
it is a bit annoying though that any group can get to the front regardless of abillity...should be for elite runners only

28064212

Rantan wrote: »

Im not a guard or related to one..but I know one or two serious marathon runners in that group who have earned the right to be up front..whatever about the plodders...;)

I have no doubt about that, and have no problem with them starting where they should. But if they want to start as an entire group, they should start with the slowest member of the group, not the fastest.

yaboya1

28064212 wrote: »

They were even worse. My time last year could generously be described as "average", and I still managed to pass out approximately 45 of the Gardai runners (I started counting after the first 5, realising they were horribly out of place).

The only group even worse than that I've found is Drogheda and District AC. They're an Athletics Club. How do they consistently manage to put runners in the first wave who plainly shouldn't be there? Not to mention that groups of them tend to run side by side, so they block half the road

Plenty of them in the wrong wave on Saturday. I didn't count but I passed an awful lot of them even though I started in Wave 2.

Rantan

28064212 wrote: »

I have no doubt about that, and have no problem with them starting where they should. But if they want to start as an entire group, they should start with the slowest member of the group, not the fastest.

sorry - I agree and will repeat my last sentence for clarity:

"...it is a bit annoying though that any group can get to the front regardless of abillity...should be for elite runners only ..."

Kurt Godel

Blurb from Focus Ireland below. Fair enough, if they want to have a few extras at the Expo or whatever that aren't part of the race, but putting slower runners in front of faster runners impacts on the race, and makes a mockery of telling people to line up according to ability.

Benefits of running for Focus Ireland:

Anyone who is registered to run the marathon in aid of Focus Ireland has Gold Entry into the Airtricity Dublin Marathon.

Gold Entry

The main perk as a Gold Entry runner is a Gold Start in the race. This will position charity Gold Entry runners at the front of each wave of timed starts to give a completely clear path and optimal start to the race.
Gold Entries also include a limited number of grandstand tickets for friends and family, which will also entitle them to refreshments. The number of grandstand tickets available will be dependent on your selected charity.
You as a runner will also have access to a Charity Marquee area for some end of race refreshments and the opportunity to meet up with the charity, family and other runners.
The final unique element to the Gold Entry will be an express service at the Expo and an exclusive inspirational talk by the course director.
Call us today to find out the many benefits to running on behalf of Focus Ireland – official charity partner to the Airtricity Dublin Marathon 2013.

28064212

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Blurb from Focus Ireland below. Fair enough, if they want to have a few extras at the Expo or whatever that aren't part of the race, but putting slower runners in front of faster runners impacts on the race, and makes a mockery of telling people to line up according to ability.

Can't say I really blame Focus Ireland, they probably don't have anyone who has much knowledge about large running events. This is solely at the door of DCM themselves

TommyLAD

Are pacers is still at the expo ?

robinph

If the charity offers some special baggage/ changing area at the finish with free massage, and maybe some cake, then that would be an appropriate way to try and entice runners to run for your cause.

Annoying the rest of the field by pushing your charities runners to the front of the pack is not the way to do it though.

Ososlo

again, I don't think you can blame the charity here at all. Charities care about money not running. Totally the fault of the organisers here imo to let this happen in the first place.

nerraw1111

Odd decision. I don't think focus Ireland runners will care where they line up, More likely to annoy others.

It's part of the trend that sees running solely as a way to fundraise. There was an interesting comment on the journal re the tragedy in the half marathon. Basically someone assumed the runner was raising money for charity. When asked how did they know, the person replied that's why most people run.

When someone pointed out that was incorrect, it was the worst rated comment. Mad. Perhaps that says more about that particular comment section.

menoscemo

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Odd decision. I don't think focus Ireland runners will care where they line up, More likely to annoy others.

It's part of the trend that sees running solely as a way to fundraise. There was an interesting comment on the journal re the tragedy in the half marathon. Basically someone assumed the runner was raising money for charity. When asked how did they know, the person replied that's why most people run.

When someone pointed out that was incorrect, it was the worst rated comment. Mad. Perhaps that says more about that particular comment section.

Yeah I read that. Totally annoyed me. Her comment was 'and he was doing such a selfless thing'. I decided not to point out that probably only 2% were running the half for charity.

menoscemo

TommyLAD wrote: »

Are pacers is still at the expo ?

Come again?

mr.wiggle

TommyLAD wrote: »

Are pacers is still at the expo ?

If you mean is there a pacer stand at the expo?, I would guess so.
I'll be giving them an earful about choosing 10 minute slots so a lot more of them can get free entry !!;)
Not just because i'm chasing 3.15 :pac:

Krusty_Clown

mr.wiggle wrote: »

If you mean is there a pacer stand at the expo?, I would guess so.
I'll be giving them an earful about choosing 10 minute slots so a lot more of them can get free entry !!;)
Not just because i'm chasing 3.15 :pac:

I know your post is tongue in cheek, but lest anyone misinterpret your smiley faces, the pacers themselves do not choose the time bands and if they did, it certainly would not be in the interest of free entries. When all is said and done, they still have to run a marathon, many at a quicker pace than you will be racing, but with a significant weight of responsibility ontop of their shoulders (along with a backpack and a flag).

For your 3:15, make sure you're suitably trained for your target and you'll be fine. Consider running with the 3:20 guys for the first 5 miles, before pushing on.

Kurt Godel

TommyLAD wrote: »

Are pacers is still at the expo ?

mr.wiggle wrote: »

If you mean is there a pacer stand at the expo?, I would guess so.
I'll be giving them an earful about choosing 10 minute slots so a lot more of them can get free entry !!;)
Not just because i'm chasing 3.15 :pac:

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I know your post is tongue in cheek, but lest anyone misinterpret your smiley faces, the pacers themselves do not choose the time bands and if they did, it certainly would not be in the interest of free entries. When all is said and done, they still have to run a marathon, many at a quicker pace than you will be racing, but with a significant weight of responsibility ontop of their shoulders (along with a backpack and a flag).

Just to add to this clarification, last year we had 4 pacers for each of 9 (15 min) bands = 36 pacers.
This year we have 3 pacers for each of 13 (10 min) bands = 39 pacers. Hardly a lot more.

And there will be a pacer stand at the Expo, where you can ask the pacers anything relating to pacing or other marathon questions.

TommyLAD

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Just to add to this clarification, last year we had 4 pacers for each of 9 (15 min) bands = 36 pacers.
This year we have 3 pacers for each of 13 (10 min) bands = 42 pacers. Hardly a lot more.

And there will be a pacer stand at the Expo, where you can ask the pacers anything relating to pacing or other marathon questions.

I Tip my hat to the pacers .. Lots of pressure on them

Cartman78

A friend of mine can't make it to the Expo and has asked me to collect his number/pack - what do I need in order to do this?

I presume a copy of the receipt, acceptance letter is enough (?) or do I need a copy of a drivers licence,photo id as well?

TRR

TommyLAD wrote: »

I Tip my hat to the pacers .. Lots of pressure on them

Pressure, pffffft. They are running on average a minute per mile slower than their marathon PBs. Should be a jog in the park for them. The pressure should be on those chasing the pacers trying to run PBs

BeepBeep67

TRR wrote: »

Pressure, pffffft. They are running on average a minute per mile slower than their marathon PBs. Should be a jog in the park for them. The pressure should be on those chasing the pacers trying to run PBs

That reminds me must get out for a long run this week - how many week's left?

TRR

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

That reminds me must get out for a long run this week - how many week's left?

That sort of question should be enough to get you struck from the pacers list