need advise over floor dispute

ameee

Hi hope someone can advise me on my rights here,

I had bargaintown come out and measure my floors for wood (laminate) kitchen,hall and sitting room and carpet for stairs and landing. I need upstairs done too but cant afford it yet but thats another story .

Anyway long story short they measured, I picked out what I wanted, they gave me a price of 940 and I payed it.

Today they came out, stairs and landing was no problem but they were short of a couple of boxes of wood and left the hall 3/4 unfinished :mad: .

The guy doing the wood didnt tell me he was short and just left, I came back and the carpet chap explained the situation. He was very nice about it but basically is not working for bargaintown directly so hadnt much idea about what would happen.

I called them twice and got a call back just now. Chap said there mistake very sorry and they had to order more wood and it wood be friday morning I said fine.

Next he says they left four boxes off by mistake and it came to another 200!!! :eek: I told him I havnt anymore money (which he knows as I had told them I would be back in a few months to get upstairs done if they could keep my measurments)

So he says can you meet me halfway and pay one hundred again I said Ive no more money and even if I had (I dont) that would come to 1040 and I had got another quote from des kelly for 1000 so I would have never gone to them in the first place at that price.

Im really upset about it he said well it will be done friday morning anyway and ill see what I can do. So Im assuming they will do it on friday but they may call and say anything tomoro.

I told him they meassured they gave the price and if they cant finish for what they charged to rip it all up and refund me and Ill go elsewhere.

Am I right in thinking they cant charge for a job then when they are nearly finished say oh yeah give us more money to finish it or am I screwed

Esoteric_

Have you got a receipt/invoice from them, stating the price and what the price is for?

If you have, they cannot charge you any more.

ameee

yes the receipt says hall,sitting room,kitchen and stairs and landing and the price.

Esoteric_

ameee wrote: »

yes the receipt says hall,sitting room,kitchen and stairs and landing and the price.

Well then I'd give them another call, or write them a letter (send it by registered post), stating that they quoted you X amount for X amount of work. You paid X amount, as requested, and expect the work to be done as agreed. Send a photocopy (not the original!) of the receipt, too.

You hold all the cards here. You have proof of the agreement/contract, so they can't fight it.

ameee

Thats great to know thanks I thought that was the case and told them so. I think the chap was chancing his arm to see if he could get anything out of me to help cover their mistake, first two hundred then down to one hundred and I said Im paying nothing more and he didnt say much just they will be out on friday to do it anyway and he would see what he could do. No doubt tell the manager and see what they say sure Ill do nothing for now and see do they arrive on friday. Ill update if they come.

coylemj

Esoteric_ wrote: »

You hold all the cards here. You have proof of the agreement/contract, so they can't fight it.

I realise you're talking legally there but bringing a flavour of reality to the table, the store has the OP's money and he has a half-finished floor so I wouldn't be so sure about who actually 'holds all the cards'.

The receipt he has isn't necessarily a contract for a specific job of work in terms of floor area to be covered, it probably just states that he paid for a specific amount of materials and the labour to install them.

Esoteric_

coylemj wrote: »

I realise you're talking legally there but bringing a flavour of reality to the table, the store has the OP's money and he has a half-finished floor so I wouldn't be so sure about who actually 'holds all the cards'.

The receipt he has isn't necessarily a contract for a specific job of work in terms of floor area to be covered, it probably just states that he paid for a specific amount of materials and the labour to install them.

They hold the OP's money, which can be won back through the Small Claims Court if they refuse to finish the work.

mdebets

A few questions for the OP.

What does your receipt and the T&Cs actually state? Do they contain the actual measurements or just the rooms and a final price?

Do the measurements he has taken are the sames as the ones you did yourself and the competitors did, or are they different?

Did he just forget to bring the 4 boxes or did he forget to put them on the invoice?

How much material did he use, compared to the measurements? Did he estimated x square metre and used x square metre or did he use y square metre?

coylemj

Esoteric_ wrote: »

They hold the OP's money, which can be won back through the Small Claims Court if they refuse to finish the work.

Provided the OP can prove that there was a legally enforceable agreement to complete a set amount of work in terms of supply and fit the flooring to cover the floors in his hall, kitchen and sitting room in the house at (OP's specific address).

If the paperwork simply says that they will supply xxx sq. ft. of flooring and fit it then he hasn't a leg to stand on.

P. Breathnach

coylemj wrote: »

...
If the paperwork simply says that they will supply xxx sq. ft. of flooring and fit it then he hasn't a leg to stand on.

Or a floor.

tonyroc

when they measured up did they give you any paper work with original quote ?

ameee

tonyroc wrote: »

when they measured up did they give you any paper work with original quote ?

no they never gave me any measurements they hold onto them they just said pick your wood and we Will calculate what you need. I was never given terms and conditions the only paper work i was given was the receipt which says kitchen
Hall sitting room supplied and fitted rustic oak 7mm stairs and landing supplied and fitted
Brown and underlay 940 euro paid in full

Morph the Cat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Or a floor.

They have a floor.

tonyroc

they have not got a leg to stand on go down and be firm .did they by any chance leave empty box behind if so is there a measurement on it ?

ameee

mdebets wrote: »

A few questions for the OP.

What does your receipt and the T&Cs actually state? Do they contain the actual measurements or just the rooms and a final price?

Do the measurements he has taken are the sames as the ones you did yourself and the competitors did, or are they different?

Did he just forget to bring the 4 boxes or did he forget to put them on the invoice?

How much material did he use, compared to the measurements? Did he estimated x square metre and used x square metre or did he use y square metre?

No idea how they measured as they won't give them to you in case you go elsewhere i didn't take my own as i wouldn't know how but if i had i couldn't compare anyway. There were no ideat and c i never signed anything just paid and got receipt as above. Chap on the phone paid they either messed up the measuring or when calculating how many boxes so i don't know were they made the mistake only that it was definitely their mistake which they admitted

ameee

tonyroc wrote: »

they have not got a leg to stand on go down and be firm .did they by any chance leave empty box behind if so is there a measurement on it ?

Oh i Will do believe me. I don't think so just offcuts and a heavy duty adhesive spray in my daughters bedroom which i thankfully found before she did . Got the impression on the phone they knew well they were wrong but chanced their arm. I just wanted some opinions so i know where i stand if it turns nasty but hopefully they Will arrive on Friday to finish without problems. Having to keep the kids out of the hall so they don't fall over the half done floor for two days is annoying enough

tonyroc

supply and fit with no measurement on receipt game over you win .ps if half your hall is 200 full hall 400 you must smallest kitchen and sitting room in Ireland

coylemj

tonyroc wrote: »

supply and fit with no measurement on receipt game over you win .ps if half your hall is 200 full hall 400 you must smallest kitchen and sitting room in Ireland

OP got quotes from Bargaintown and Des Kelly so I'm guessing we're not exactly talking about premium products here, worth bearing in mind when you're converting amounts of money into sq feet.

tonyroc

My mistake I seem half in one post but looking at 1st 3/4 hall =200 .then even without measurement hall =266which means 674 kitchen ,sitting room ,stairs and landing .Shop taking the p##s

ameee

tonyroc wrote: »

My mistake I seem half in one post but looking at 1st 3/4 hall =200 .then even without measurement hall =266which means 674 kitchen ,sitting room ,stairs and landing .Shop taking the p##s

Yeah i think the idea is the whole thing should have cost 1140 not the 940 they told me if that makes any more sense. Even so the chap said four more boxes were needed yet 11 boxes did the kitchen and sitting room and some of the hall and those rooms are far bigger so i don't get it. I think maybe they need three and like one or two boards more so a whole extra box but i don't know either way I can't and won't be paying anymore and they know that so hopefully they arrive tomorrow anyway like he said.

Morph the Cat

This isn't complicated - they quoted you do to the job - and it's only 90% done. No court in the world would accept an argument that when they initially measured & priced up the job, that it was to only cover 90% of your floor. They either under-measured or under-ordered the stock - not your fault. You paid for your floor to be covered - and it isn't. They need to finish it off at their original price. No debate necessary.

CuppaCocoa

Seems to be a common scam. My 84 year old mother got a new floor recently from a rival company of Bargaintown (ahem!). They came and measured and gave her a price. Came a few days later to fit the floor and said that the skirting should have been taller and wasn't included in the price and it would be a few hundred extra! My mother said no way, they were the ones who measured & should have taken the skirting into consideration (the original floor had been laid by this crowd also) and she wasn't paying. Cue phonecalls from the office requesting payment but she stood her ground and wouldn't pay them. She got the job done!

Interestingly enough, when she had the original floor laid, there were a load of boxes of wood left over! The fitter took them away but she never got a refund. She doesn't know whether she paid for them or they sent too many. The former I guess!

P. Breathnach

ameee wrote: »

.... Even so the chap said four more boxes were needed yet 11 boxes did the kitchen and sitting room and some of the hall and those rooms are far bigger so i don't get it....

It doesn't really matter whether you get it or not! There is more waste in irregularly shaped areas because of cutting. And I suspect that they are making sure they have at least enough rather than mess up again. There might be a box or two left over when they are finished.

Morph the Cat wrote: »

This isn't complicated - they quoted you do to the job - and it's only 90% done. No court in the world would accept an argument that when they initially measured & priced up the job, that it was to only cover 90% of your floor. They either under-measured or under-ordered the stock - not your fault. You paid for your floor to be covered - and it isn't. They need to finish it off at their original price. No debate necessary.

It might be worth mentioning the difference between an estimate and a quotation. If a contractor gives an estimate, he or she might be able to justify making an extra charge (although one based on measuring incorrectly would be difficult to win). In this case, as OP has described it, it looks like a quotation, and it would be very difficult to justify any increase,

Morph the Cat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It might be worth mentioning the difference between an estimate and a quotation. If a contractor gives an estimate, he or she might be able to justify making an extra charge (although one based on measuring incorrectly would be difficult to win). In this case, as OP has described it, it looks like a quotation, and it would be very difficult to justify any increase,

It wasn't an estimate; it was an invoice that was paid on the spot that same day by the OP.

P. Breathnach

Morph the Cat wrote: »

It wasn't an estimate; it was an invoice that was paid on the spot that same day by the OP.

What's your beef? I made it clear that I did not think it was an estimate.

JimsAlterEgo

it looks like potentially underhand tactics from the shop have backfired on them, by not having the amount of materials needed on the invoice they can take away whats left over. If they have quantities and you have paid the leftovers would be yours.

Morph the Cat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What's your beef? I made it clear that I did not think it was an estimate.

No beef - just a simple reply. Why did you even discuss an estimate if you didn't think it was one, therefore not applicable to this scenario?

ameee

UPDATE. They are doing the floors now :-) . I didn't pay anymore and i certainly won't do either think to be fair they genuinely made a mistake with their calculations and then chanced their arm at getting me to pay for it.

P. Breathnach

Morph the Cat wrote: »

No beef - just a simple reply. Why did you even discuss an estimate if you didn't think it was one, therefore not applicable to this scenario?

Because OP might be having an argument with her supplier today. The supplier has already tried it on once for extra payment. If the supplier tries to describe the documentation as a written estimate, OP should reject that interpretation. Unless, of course, it was clearly headed "Estimate", which seems so unlikely as not to be worth worrying about.

[I see that it's all redundant in the light of OP's latest post. Well done, OP, for standing your ground.]

ameee

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Because OP might be having an argument with her supplier today. The supplier has already tried it on once for extra payment. If the supplier tries to describe the documentation as a written estimate, OP should reject that interpretation. Unless, of course, it was clearly headed "Estimate", which seems so unlikely as not to be worth worrying about.

[I see that it's all redundant in the light of OP's latest post. Well done, OP, for standing your ground.]

Thanks, and all the advise I got here was appreciated. I didnt want to get into a big row with them not knowing were I stood. But thankfully that never happened it was their mistake and they knew it. Alls well that ends well and my floor looks great!