Why is religion still a school subject?

In places like India, private schooling is better than the state schools. The poorest families can also save up and afford it.
http://www.economist.com/node/21550251
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/policy-report/2005/9/cpr-27n5-1.pdf

It's interesting that you mention Kenya.

Key findings about education in Kenya, based on the results of the Uwezo 2009 assessment:[4]
Literacy levels are lower in public schools than private schools.
Many families pay for extra tuition, which focuses heavily on drilling and exam preparation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Kenya

There's also no indication that home schooling is popular at all in Kenya, so I'm not sure what the comparison is about

LaminatorSGL

In my R.E. class not 6 years ago, our (insanely religious) teacher showed us the whipping of Jesus in the Passion of Christ and a sonogram of an abortion taking place. Sick and twisted stuff to bring into a classroom, as far as I know he is still teaching.

Another teacher showed us a video of an exorcism taking place, which was absurd to watch.

I don't see any harm in teaching religion, as long as it entails educating students about all major religions and culture. All the batshít crazy stuff I was taught has no place in 21st century education whatsoever.

Brian Shanahan

bluewolf wrote: »

There's also no indication that home schooling is popular at all in Kenya, so I'm not sure what the comparison is about

Home schooling tends to have a high number of religious fanatics partaking in it. My comparison with Kenya was more along the lines of "religious fanatics banning stuff and killing people because they are different", which would be a natural result of a country like Ireland going with the private and home schooling route.

MomijiHime

It's important to learn about all the religions of the world -not just your beliefs. Is it not important to be respectful of other religions and have a basic understanding of them?
However, it's wrong for the religion teacher to be biased..

Brian Shanahan

MomijiHime wrote: »

Is it not important to be respectful of other religions?

Only insofar as you woule be respectful of the peddlers of other types of myths, to be honest.

jank

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Home schooling tends to have a high number of religious fanatics partaking in it. My comparison with Kenya was more along the lines of "religious fanatics banning stuff and killing people because they are different", which would be a natural result of a country like Ireland going with the private and home schooling route.

Is there proof of this?

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Is there proof of this?

It's the largest single factor.....

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030_sup.pdf

Jacks Smirking Revenge

I remember telling my insanely religious teacher that I was an atheist. The way she looked at me, you'd swear I personally killed Jesus while high-fiving Satan.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

It's the largest single factor.....

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030_sup.pdf

You should check again. It's the 2nd largest factor.

Just Like Heaven

Nothing wrong with religion as a subject at junior & leaving cert level. As an exam subject it's just like history really. It is, like it or not a massive aspect of the world we live in. Although it shouldn't be mandatory (as it were in my school up until JC).

In my school a couple of the teachers were funny like the OP's probably are. We did a lot of stuff about the catholic church that wasn't really in the book/on the curriculum. It was almost like a bible study class at times.

Morag

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Nothing wrong with religion as a subject at junior & leaving cert level. As an exam subject it's just like history really. It is, like it or not a massive aspect of the world we live in. Although it shouldn't be mandatory (as it were in my school up until JC).

In my school a couple of the teachers were funny like the OP's probably are. We did a lot of stuff about the catholic church that wasn't really in the book/on the curriculum. It was almost like a bible study class at times.

Schools do not have to teach the JC & LC religion curriculum.

The can opt out and do their own 'pastral care' program, usually saying it takes the stress of kids with one less exam but they still have 4 religion classes a week and only 1-2 cspe which they do sit an exam in.

They can opt to use their own books, currently the one being used in the school my kids go to is called Path ways to God, which you'd think would be multidenominational, well it's not, there are minor mentions of the other two judaic religions and that's it and only in relation to Christianity and the first sections of the book are about being part of the community, that is the parish. Very inclusive as you can imagine esp to children who are atheist or agnostic.

Why is religion still a school subject? because the school wants to be seen to provide moral guidance and it's the easy to do it by choosing a christian frame work.

ted1

I went to a Caramalite run school and religion was not forced down out throat.

We were taught all about different religions and their beliefs, nothing wrong with learning about a subject that has being the basis of nearly all wars and a way of life for the vast majority of the 7 billion people on the planet.

Mark Hamill

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Nothing wrong with religion as a subject at junior & leaving cert level. As an exam subject it's just like history really.

Given that we already have history, does that not make it redundant?

Brian Shanahan

Morag wrote: »

Why is religion still a school subject? because the school wants to be seen to provide moral guidance and it's the easy to do it by choosing a christian frame work.

And because the priests, rabbis, imams, etc. are too lazy to do their own jobs.

Aeternum

I'm in Leaving Cert now and we have one religion class a week which we use to discuss moral and ethical issues. We have not said one prayer this year or used a book. Everyone in the year enjoys the class and gets involved in the discussions.

However for the JC I had a different teacher who would make us spend the class reading passages about bible stories and the likes. It wasn't an exam subject in our school but we had it twice a week. We used to be brought on pilgrimages up Croagh Patrick.

My current teacher has the right opinion on it. We discuss topics like abortion, terrorism, war and sex and the different opinions each religion has with regards to them.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

You should check again. It's the 2nd largest factor.

Try again.

In the 2007 NHES, parents also were asked which one of
their selected reasons for homeschooling was the most
important.5 The reason reported by the highest percentage

of homeschoolers’ parents as being most important was
to provide religious or moral instruction (36 percent).

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf

carpejugulum

You gotta get them when they are young.

recedite

ted1 wrote: »

I went to a Caramalite run school and religion was not forced down out throat.

We were taught all about different religions and their beliefs, nothing wrong with learning .....

Caramel-lite? Was it in a chocolate factory?

Nodin

carpejugulum wrote: »

You gotta get them when they are young.

Careful now....

Just Like Heaven

Morag wrote: »

Schools do not have to teach the JC & LC religion curriculum.

I didn't say it was mandatory!

But it was for the students in my school up until JC. It wasn't even offered for the LC.

c_man

My teacher friends inform me that the prayer before class is still going on

Jacks Smirking Revenge

c_man wrote: »

My teacher friends inform me that the prayer before class is still going on

This is my problem with it, most religion teachers are more for shoving Catholicism down kids throats than teaching the actual subject.

Aquarius34

There is no benefit in teaching the subject because it's indoctrination.

Absolam

I think comparative religion as part of / alongside civics is a worthwhile subject; as Ireland is becoming more multi cultural and multi denominational there is a great deal that children should be able to learn in school which would benefit them in dealing with different perspectives. It's understandable that faith based schools, which have have obviously been the overwhelming majority of schools in Ireland, would approach religion from a very narrow perspective, but I think that as the Churches (especially the Catholic Church) influence in the education system diminishes, there is room for a more secular and comprehensive curriculum of religious education in schools. It would be as great a disservice to remove religious education from schools entirely, as it has been to educate people as narrowly as has been the case in the past.

human 19

Multiqupte not working for me so...regarding the points about comparative religious studies being taught in schools.....why? In that case you may as well bring in witchcraft, voodoo, ley lines, astrology, Klingon warrior code etc.

When children start school they are primed to automatically believe the authority figure their parents are handing them over to. Its a pity that this is used to "teach" these kids about something which is not based in fact.
Unfortunately , most parents would disagree with me due to the indoctrination they had previously received.

In secondary school, I would love to see religion replaced with "Introduction to Psychology"

QUOTE=Eramen

Today, most atheists cannot simply practice politics from a point of view of their non-theism [notice I didn't say anti-theism] (and all the other things which they may identify with besides atheism).

Instead they are manipulated, and atheism as a whole is manipulated, by egalitarian-progressives, feminists, globalist think-tanks etc who use atheism to fight their battles, not the individual atheist's battles, to correct so-called 'inequalities' and 'injustices' which these think-tanks and lobbyists see as their interests and as vital for their own causes.

I made up my own mind, thanks and continue to do so. I really have no idea what organisations you are referring to.

Yet these things are not atheism's cause. Atheism is non-theism, and this only. Atheism is a personal opinion. Atheism is not fighting for every 'poor ol' sods' rights or entitlements that they feel that they should be entitled to.

As is socialism, liberalism etc. If I hear of someone like a 15 year old girl sentenced to 100 lashes for having sex after being constantly raped by her father (latest campaign from Avaaz), because of a religious law, I will become annoyed. I dont feel that way as a result of a groupthink mentality.

Yet atheists do think it's part of atheism.. This is the problem. Mr Dawkins and especially Hitchens spoke about their own political views and sought to portray them as 'atheists views' in Q&A's and interviews. But atheists don't seem to realise this.

I have never read Hitchens and only bought The God Delusion a few months back to see what all the fuss was about. I was glad to discover that Dawkins agreed with me .
I dont know why you think that athiests are simply rehashing the views of others rather than making up their own minds. If I was to simply have gone with the flow without making my own mind up, I wouldnt have left religion behind in the first place and may now be out on the streets with a placard stating "all abortion is evil after conception"

"Religion the fairy-tale" - another opinion, and yet atheists parrot without thinking, is religion more than this? Is the statement correct? It doesn't mean you should accept it without intellectual discrimination.

Considering the large list of creation myths from which certain people decide to believe (or are indoctrinated into believing) that 1 is correct and all others are wrong......and that there is no proof of a god...and that our main religion in Ireland had had to constantly row back on it's "facts" due to ongoing scientific discoveries (after much initial repression of these discoveries), then I would say "yes"..."fairy tale" is an adequate analogy

Yet most atheists lap this drivel up and take it as what they should believe. I've only ever met two atheists that where an exception to this rule. The rest believe what popular celebrity-type atheists speak about from their opinion,

Are you sure they dont agree with these opinions, simply because these celebrities just happen to state something that they happen to agree with in the first place?

Absolam

human 19 wrote: »

Multiqupte not working for me so...regarding the points about comparative religious studies being taught in schools.....why? In that case you may as well bring in witchcraft, voodoo, ley lines, astrology, Klingon warrior code etc.
When children start school they are primed to automatically believe the authority figure their parents are handing them over to. Its a pity that this is used to "teach" these kids about something which is not based in fact.
Unfortunately , most parents would disagree with me due to the indoctrination they had previously received.
In secondary school, I would love to see religion replaced with "Introduction to Psychology"

I probably should have been more specific and said education on religion rather than education in religion. And yes, it should bring in things like witchcraft, voodoo etc etc. The majority of people in the country believe in one religion or another; educating young people as to what these beliefs are, why they are similar or disparate, where they come from and what the psychology is behind them would allow future generations to make informed choices and decisions about religions.

Sarky

I'd see nothing wrong with teaching kids the basics of the Klingon warrior code. They had a lot to say on the subject of personal honor, sticking up for yourself, and not tolerating bullsh*t. Way better than Christianity.

None of that jedi stuff though. That's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy crap.

Brian Shanahan

Sarky wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with teaching kids the basics of the Klingon warrior code. They had a lot to say on the subject of personal honor, sticking up for yourself, and not tolerating bullsh*t. Way better than Christianity.

None of that jedi stuff though. That's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy crap.

We could also teach Adamseniasm. It would only take ten minutes "All right class, jackets off, books out, stop talking. Never leave home without your towel. Class dismissed!"

Sierra 117

Sarky wrote: »

None of that jedi stuff though. That's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy crap.

From my perspective, the Jedi are the ones who are evil!

Sarky

And the Sith are just angsty teen whiners who read about real goths in books.

Hotblack Desiato

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

We could also teach Adamseniasm.

What? Like "we were in a war", "certain actions were regrettable but I refuse to enter into the politics of condemnation", that sort of thing?

Cork Boy

Because of scheduling/resources our Christian Doctrine classes were given by a Jewish teacher. He generally tried to just have a chat on moral issues of the day.

In the first day someone asked "errrr, aren't you Jewish?" to which he replied "yup, so was Jesus, so he couldn't have rashers or black pudding either before you ask!". Grand fella actually.

Anyway, all in all I just remember it being akin to a free class and it was a bit of relief from the stress of the LC year but maybe a bit of PE might've been better to get us off our arses for a while and out into the fresh air (I can't believe I just said that - i'm turning into my father!!!!)

Morag

Absolam wrote: »

I probably should have been more specific and said education on religion rather than education in religion. And yes, it should bring in things like witchcraft, voodoo etc etc.

Witchcraft is not a religion a person can be of a range of religions and still practice witchcraft. Voodoo/Vodun/Vodou are a religion.

Absolam

True but the practice of witchcraft would tend to be informed by a particular religious perspective, whether it be Christian, Wiccan, Voodoo, whatever. So it would be quite a relevant subject in comparing and contrasting religions.

Jacks Smirking Revenge

Just a little update: Religion is not an exam subject in my school in 5th year.
But its compulsory anyway *sigh*


Sorry to bump a dead thread

Morag

http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/

The Black Oil

I don't really have an issue with religion in general being taught as a subject, in a fairly broad sense - maybe learning about a few religions, otherwise kids may leave school a bit ignorant. I know it'll be said that religion makes them that way, but..! However, the more specific issue for me is that, in this country, we have had excessive favouritism towards a particular brand of religion (likely backed up by media apologists) based on history, school management structures and the notion that this is a 'Catholic country', and frankly silly census figures. That needs to change to provide more diversity of choice.

Piliger

My son who is 21 was taught religion in school in Dublin - only as a subject of study - including a range of different religions. It is useful for children to learn about the different flavours of disorders suffered by such a huge percentage of the world's population.

Cabaal

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote: »

Just a little update: Religion is not an exam subject in my school in 5th year.
But its compulsory anyway *sigh*


Sorry to bump a dead thread

Compulsory religion,

Nonsense!

Just keep questioning everything the teacher says and they'll eventually get tired of you and kick you out of class. Worked for me in 3rd year, didn't go back after that.

smacl

Piliger wrote: »

My son who is 21 was taught religion in school in Dublin - only as a subject of study - including a range of different religions. It is useful for children to learn about the different flavours of disorders suffered by such a huge percentage of the world's population.

Comparative religion is fine as an optional subject, but given the breadth of the second level syllabus, I certainly wouldn't want it as a mandatory subject.

Piliger

I agree. Something for 5th and 6th class in Primary School.