Girl 26 looking to become a TD- WTF?

ManMade

Imagine if every potential TD was scrutinised like this thread?

Its a democracy, she can run if she wants. Do you think she likes her current scenario. Her father died. She wants to continue his work. If the people wish for her to represent them what is it to you?

She can't be disqualified because of the fear of winning with the sympathy card. That's not democracy, that's just begrudgery. One man (or women),one vote ; that's how it should be, period.

The idea of a minimum qualification to run hands far too much power to current TDs.
As they would be the ones setting the minimum bar.


There should be more young TDs, female and male. The current crock don't seem that great with all their experience/qualifications.

Allyall

Henlars67 wrote: »

Not going to respond individually as you're all more or less saying the same thing and spectacularly missing my point.

To say she shouldn't be running is ridiculous and to be quite honest none of your business or mine unless you're a member of FG.

HUH?? How on earth do you reach that conclusion?
I couldn't even begin to point out how flawed that statement is. It's none of our business who a party that wants to run our Country chooses it's candidates??

Henlars67 wrote: »

Who gave any of you the right to decide who should and shouldn't run for a seat in the dail?

You need to learn what democracy is and how politics work.

Okay.. I'll get the rest of the Posters on this thread rounded up and we'll meet you in a place of your choice to explain it all to us..


BTW. Nobody is saying she shouldn't run, they are saying that if she is to run, she should at the very least prove she is able to work, and isn't running purely because she feels entitled to the seat. She has most likely bypassed somebody else that was expecting to run.

Henlars67

Allyall wrote: »

HUH?? How on earth do you reach that conclusion?
I couldn't even begin to point out how flawed that statement is. It's none of our business who a party that wants to run our Country chooses it's candidates??


Okay.. I'll get the rest of the Posters on this thread rounded up and we'll meet you in a place of your choice to explain it all to us..


Lad's and Lasses, grab your coats. We've some learnin' to get done.

It isn't any of your business provided nothing illegal happens. Candidate selection is an internal party matter as any member of a political party will know

The electorate still get to choose whether that person is elected to public office or not. If they're of the view that the wrong candidate was picked then they shouldn't vote for them.

steddyeddy

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I've read through this thread and watched the arguing back and forth but no one has mentioned the 3 words that REALLY matter here...

Party Whip System

It doesn't matter who she is (although miy own thoughts is that the child of a TD running on nothing more than name recognition and sympathy has no place in our national parliament), as long as we have that System in place they will ALL tow the line or face sanctions and expulsion.

This country is ran not by a coalition, or even a party. It's run by the handful that make up the cabinet.

+1. Until they abolish or the party whip system I would go as far as to question our democracy.

Grayson

Henlars67 wrote: »

And to those saying she has no CV, what exactly would need to be on someone's CV to deem them suitable for public office? And whatever your answer is I'd say a large number of current TD's don't have it.

How about more than nothing.

Grayson

ManMade wrote: »

Imagine if every potential TD was scrutinised like this thread?

Its a democracy, she can run if she wants. Do you think she likes her current scenario. Her father died. She wants to continue his work. If the people wish for her to represent them what is it to you?

She can't be disqualified because of the fear of winning with the sympathy card. That's not democracy, that's just begrudgery. One man (or women),one vote ; that's how it should be, period.

The idea of a minimum qualification to run hands far too much power to current TDs.
As they would be the ones setting the minimum bar.


There should be more young TDs, female and male. The current crock don't seem that great with all their experience/qualifications.

Did anyone ever say that she had no right to run?

ManMade wrote: »

Imagine if every potential TD was scrutinised like this thread?

It would be effing brillant. Someone might have noticed that Bertie had lied on his CV.

rambutman

Grayson wrote: »

hehe. You said nobber.

Great she's got a lovely personality. wait, sorry, don't they all have lovely personalities.

So wait, she had to work her way through college, but worked unpaid as well? Which is it? Cos I'm working full time and doing third year in college. And I can tell you, I wouldn't have time to do another job unpaid.

So, can you suggest any reason at all, why she should be taken as a serious candidate or just as a joke one? As someone who knows more than we do, and is willing to jump to her defense, there has to be something you can say.

With regard to this -
"So wait, she had to work her way through college, but worked unpaid as well? Which is it? "

Both.

With regard to this
"Cos I'm working full time and doing third year in college. And I can tell you, I wouldn't have time to do another job unpaid. "
Didn't see anything about FULL-TIME in my post, did you?
And hey if it was a case of you couldn't manage it and she could well then maybe thats an endorsement of her.

Regarding the "and i can tell you" - you don't need to tell me anything, i've been through university on very limited support, worked and all that and have had full-time job and done postgrad qualifications.

I have given no input/opinion based on whether she's suitable or not - if i gave positive support there'd be a "you're only saying that cos you're her friend" and if i gave negative support it'd be a case of "look even her buddies don't think she's suitable". And besides I would never give an opinion based on something i knew feck all about.

My response was purely pointing out the error in your assumption.

Regarding
"So, can you suggest any reason at all, why she should be taken as a serious candidate or just as a joke one? As someone who knows more than we do, and is willing to jump to her defense, there has to be something you can say"

There isn't - i don't know enough about politics or her mandate - i'd be as able to answer that as she would be able to tell you how suitable i was for a position as a software developer.

Lou.m

pickarooney wrote: »

Young people and women actually getting involved in politics for once and we're supposed to be against it?

There should be Junior positions for young people.

In America people who have law degrees will work for political bodies as young people on political issues for example.

What are her academic qualifications?

Some are very naturally suited to public office. And very good at it.

She would be better going for a civil service job for a while.

Others said this below

This country is ran not by a coalition, or even a party. It's run by the handful that make up the cabinet.
+1. Until they abolish or the party whip system I would go as far as to question our democracy.

Yep!

I have always said the quality and intelligence of our politicians falls behind the rest of Europe. I am speaking in terms of academic achievement and relevant experience. When you look at the C.V's of German politicians it's amazing!

It isn't any of your business provided nothing illegal happens. Candidate selection is an internal party matter as any member of a political party will know

The electorate still get to choose whether that person is elected to public office or not. If they're of the view that the wrong candidate was picked then they shouldn't vote for them.

It is absolutely our business....you take that to it's logical conclusion and you end up like china with closed candidate selections.

Democracy has very different variations in history and around the world. I would submit to you that whilst the party whip system is democratic technically and well within the legal framework of this country, the reality of it in practice is not in the spirit of democracy. And I think we all know this.


There are people and candidates that the electorate would prefer that will not get to run because of this system.


Of course she can run if she wants to..I would defend her right to run..but having looked into her accomplishments her skills and qualifications I think she would be utter rubbish.

What we are discussing is not whether or not she has the right to run, she does. We are discussing the horrible scenario that exists when candidates of her caliber are inclined to run.:)

suicide_circus

steddyeddy wrote: »

+1. Until they abolish or the party whip system I would go as far as to question our democracy.

our democracy is entirely illusory. The whip system combined with the control and infulence of the EU....our TDs are essentially actors.

opinion guy

Lou.m wrote: »

I have always said the quality and intelligence of our politicians falls behind the rest of Europe. I am speaking in terms of academic achievement and relevant experience. When you look at the C.V's of German politicians it's amazing!

Haven't several of them been found out as having plagiarised their thesis ?

The lady in question here has a degree in politics and a masters in something or t'other. Infinitely more qualified than one Bertie Ahern who ran the country for a long time. You may have heard of him. Didn't he not have a leaving cert ?

Grayson

opinion guy wrote: »

Didn't he not have a leaving cert ?

Depends on what CV you read. I heard he studied economics at the LSE.

Wanderer2010

Henlars67 wrote: »

So what if she follows her parents career? Loads of people in other fields have followed their parents career paths.

You need to learn what democracy is and how politics work.

People who follow their parents career path dont have the experience that comes from starting up from scratch or etching out your OWN career with no external help, and such people usually have a lazy work ethic and why wouldn't they, I see it all the time- people who work in their parent shop, people who are solicitors after working in the family firm etc none of them are ever in danger of losing their jobs because Mammy and Daddy can always clean up after them, Look at the Quinns- not one of them didnt work in the family firm, so silver spoon from birth to death.

This girl has no experience of sending out CVs, going for one job interview after another, working shift work to put food on the table, being refused a loan etc, how can she relate to or encourage young people when unemployment is the number one concern for them. IF she gets elected, its only because her father was a TD, in the same way as Cecilia Ahern only got published as her dad was running the country. Thats Ireland, its all connections and cronyism.

Dj Grimreefer

by the looks of her she'd make a great TD,

A tedious dyke that is

Royal Legend

opinion guy wrote: »

Haven't several of them been found out as having plagiarised their thesis ?

The lady in question here has a degree in politics and a masters in something or t'other. Infinitely more qualified than one Bertie Ahern who ran the country for a long time. You may have heard of him. Didn't he not have a leaving cert ?

There are plenty of examples of people without qualifications being highly successful in lie in general, so I think the educated uneducated issue is viable. Bertie for all his flaws, (which of more come to the surface everyday :P ) was known as a great facilitator and mediator, that was his thing and he was good at it. In my business my opinion of persons with degrees and masters etc, I am lucky if less than 2 out of 10 are capable of doing a job for me, mostly because theory requires a certain set of skills and practice requires a totally different set, which they don't always have or want to have.

I think the original issue has been lost here, this is about a political party who electioneered on changing the way politics is done, just reverting back to type and doing things they way they were always done.

One thought crossed my mind during the week, that the PD's probably arrived at the wrong time in Irish politics, if they were arriving now, at least we would have some other option, and I always got the feeling that ethics was a real part of their makeup as against what we have open to us to vote for at the moment.

Jimoslimos

Here is a brief summary of my issues;

Education: She has a Degree and Masters. Nice but overall not that relevant if she hasn't shown the ability to apply her knowledge in the real world.

Age: Whilst the general correlation matches age with experience in most professions, I don't have a problem with fast-tracking a younger individual who has shown great promise or ability. McEntee hasn't done that unfortunately. We don't need younger politicians for the sake of it, rather better ones than the current crop regardless of age.

Sex: Irrelevant. Better female candidates are required, not simply women for the sake of it.

Experience: Very relevant in that she has none. Working as a parliamentary assistant is a world away from the responsibilities of a publicly elected representative. There are numerous town and county councils to run for and show what she's capable of.

Family: Could be irrelevant if she had shown any interest in forging her own niche in politics. However the only position she has held was as assistant to her late father - are you trying to tell me that in the whole country, nay even Meath, that there wasn't a better suited candidate for a Minister's assistant than his own daughter? Or is loyalty the most important trait here? Which I imagine is good for FG, not so good for the rest of us.

smileyj1987

Finally some eye candy for the Dail !

mikemac1

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Finally some eye candy for the Dail !

She's no Joan Burton!

suicide_circus

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Here is a brief summary of my issues;

Education: She has a Degree and Masters. Nice but overall not that relevant if she hasn't shown the ability to apply her knowledge in the real world.

Age: Whilst the general correlation matches age with experience in most professions, I don't have a problem with fast-tracking a younger individual who has shown great promise or ability. McEntee hasn't done that unfortunately. We don't need younger politicians for the sake of it, rather better ones than the current crop regardless of age.

Sex: Irrelevant. Better female candidates are required, not simply women for the sake of it.

Experience: Very relevant in that she has none. Working as a parliamentary assistant is a world away from the responsibilities of a publicly elected representative. There are numerous town and county councils to run for and show what she's capable of.

Family: Could be irrelevant if she had shown any interest in forging her own niche in politics. However the only position she has held was as assistant to her late father - are you trying to tell me that in the whole country, nay even Meath, that there wasn't a better suited candidate for a Minister's assistant than his own daughter? Or is loyalty the most important trait here? Which I imagine is good for FG, not so good for the rest of us.

This post is correct in every respect.

smileyj1987

mikemac1 wrote: »

She's no Joan Burton!

I'll see your Joan Burton and raise you a Mary Harney !

Grayson

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I'll see your Joan Burton and raise you a Mary Harney !

Don't forget Mary lou McDonald. She has access to handcuffs and blindfolds.

Slick50

Grayson wrote: »

Don't forget Mary lou McDonald. She has access to handcuffs and blindfolds.

And the pork pie cabinet, (I don't mean, as in rhyming slang) she's growing into her position, rapidly.

Alactric

Slick50 wrote: »

And the pork pie cabinet, (I don't mean, as in rhyming slang) she's growing into her position, rapidly.

Simultaneously laughing and frowning.

awec

Her degrees mean absolutely feck all. Having a degree does not make you qualified to sit in the Dáil.

Let's be honest here, when people are voting for her it will be because of who she is. Not what she stands for, because nobody knows. And not because of anything she has done in the past, because she's done nothing.

kupus

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Here is a brief summary of my issues;

Education: She has a Degree and Masters. Nice but overall not that relevant if she hasn't shown the ability to apply her knowledge in the real world.

Age: Whilst the general correlation matches age with experience in most professions, I don't have a problem with fast-tracking a younger individual who has shown great promise or ability. McEntee hasn't done that unfortunately. We don't need younger politicians for the sake of it, rather better ones than the current crop regardless of age.

Sex: Irrelevant. Better female candidates are required, not simply women for the sake of it.

Experience: Very relevant in that she has none. Working as a parliamentary assistant is a world away from the responsibilities of a publicly elected representative. There are numerous town and county councils to run for and show what she's capable of.

Family: Could be irrelevant if she had shown any interest in forging her own niche in politics. However the only position she has held was as assistant to her late father - are you trying to tell me that in the whole country, nay even Meath, that there wasn't a better suited candidate for a Minister's assistant than his own daughter? Or is loyalty the most important trait here? Which I imagine is good for FG, not so good for the rest of us.

suicide_circus wrote: »

This post is correct in every respect.

So good it needs to be quoted again for the speed readers and also nicely wrote.

TLDR......In my own rather haphazard way of typing .......Whythe F%(k is a 26 year old greenhorn girl still wet behind the ears who has never worked a proper day in her life going for a TD's job.
No offense to her as a person intended...

Mike Guide 69

awec wrote: »

Her degrees mean absolutely feck all. Having a degree does not make you qualified to sit in the Dáil.

Let's be honest here, when people are voting for her it will be because of who she is. Not what she stands for, because nobody knows. And not because of anything she has done in the past, because she's done nothing.

True,but i think the cronyism vote will probabaly get her in due to her Fathers backround and not what shes actually achieved. Very similar to the way Mildred Fox got elected in the Wicklow by election back in 1995 after her fathers (Johnny Fox) death......

pirelli

If she has good objectives, and can contribute to society than no harm. As the OP pointed out TD's earn 96k a year, and that TD's get a cushy job. That is more a concern for the present political climate, rather than for an individual electorate.


On one hand people want to fast track a talented young person into politics.

On the other hand people do not a greenhorn who is wet behind the ear's with nothing but a flashy degree to get in.

They want someone who has a good deal of experience and wisdom about life that has gotten their hands dirty, and proven themselves. I disagree with fast tracking a young person. I do not think young people need positive discrimination. Disabled people perhaps. but not young people.

Wompa1

I wouldn't even care about her lack of political experience but her lack of any real work experience would make me less inclined to vote for her.

Also, I'm all for breaking the chain of public officials who have never worked outside of the public sector taking office. You should know both worlds.

Allyall

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Here is a brief summary of my issues;

Education: ..

Age: ..

Sex: ...

Experience: ..

Family: ..

Very well put.

I suppose my one of my biggest issues with her would be

We don't need younger politicians for the sake of it, rather better ones than the current crop regardless of age.

I think a lot of people would vote her in because of her age, and think she may relate to them more. Unfortunately, i don't think that would be the case at all here. I think she couldn't be further removed from her current generations plight TBH.

jonsnow

Shes a party hack yeswoman. What really pisses me off is when she bangs on about how she is making youth unemployment a central plank of her campaign because so many of her friends have emigrated. No Helen you dont understand emigration because daddy sorted you out with a masters and a parliamentary assistant job so that you didnt have to emigrate.All your talk about understanding emigration is BS because it was never a real threat for you.You were always going to be protected, given a handy job, work your way up the party and then get elected.

Nothing in this country every changes.I'm starting to see my own generation of mediocre spoofers slither into positions of power in ireland while most of the talented people of my generation are gone abroad.

smeedyova

I think a point that should be considered here is not that she ran at all but that people actually voted for her. The question I'm asking myself is why on earth Irish people vote for the children of politicians? Do they think that they have to? I don't think it's right to blame her for trying, but to question the reasoning power of those who gave her a vote...