PROPOSED WIND FARMS

rancher

Greensleeves wrote: »

The role of the IFA in the wind turbine saga is harshly criticized by Senator John Whelan in this article from the Sunday Independent (7 April 2013).

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/community-groups-whip-up-a-wind-farm-storm-29179102.html

Speaking to the Sunday Independent, Mr Whelan claimed "the IFA have abandoned rural communities with their unbridled backing for giant wind farms across large tracts of the West and the Midlands".

A wannabe TD using a the wind turbine issue to court votes.... not too hard to see through that one.

Chloe Pink

rancher wrote: »

A wannabe TD using a the wind turbine issue to court votes.... not too hard to see through that one.

No, just someone withg some insight who realises this is bad news for rural communities and for the country and he's not alone - look what's happened in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...-from-MPs.html

"Wind farm developers are facing a dramatic escalation of opposition from dozens of MPs who say they will fight every application in their constituencies."
"In a fresh protest against the Government’s support for onshore wind turbines, backbenchers said their constituencies had reached “tipping point” and would be ruined by further development."

And if the government can do this to the Midlands, they can do it to the rest of Ireland
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29195855.html
"EirGrid says companies have expressed an interest in building another 13,000MW of capacity – which could result in up to 4,300 turbines being installed."

More on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84186826#post84186826

rancher

Chloe Pink wrote: »

No, just someone withg some insight who realises this is bad news for rural communities and for the country and he's not alone - look what's happened in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...-from-MPs.html

"Wind farm developers are facing a dramatic escalation of opposition from dozens of MPs who say they will fight every application in their constituencies."
"In a fresh protest against the Government’s support for onshore wind turbines, backbenchers said their constituencies had reached “tipping point” and would be ruined by further development."

And if the government can do this to the Midlands, they can do it to the rest of Ireland
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29195855.html
"EirGrid says companies have expressed an interest in building another 13,000MW of capacity – which could result in up to 4,300 turbines being installed."

More on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84186826#post84186826

Well he needn't blame IFA for it, they have issued a press release refuting his accusation, if you're from westmeath you can see it on this weeks examiner....

Marooned75

rancher wrote: »

Well he needn't blame IFA for it, they have issued a press release refuting his accusation, if you're from westmeath you can see it on this weeks examiner....

They have ducked and dived on this issue bit late now when the see the scale of opposition to these things

rancher

Marooned75 wrote: »

They have ducked and dived on this issue bit late now when the see the scale of opposition to these things

89000 members......must be doing something right a lot of the time

Greensleeves

In the press release refuting Senator Whelan's accusations the IFA's Wind Energy Project Team Chair Jer Bergin ends by saying:

"...However, in the first instance we would appeal to both wind development companies to engage directly with the local communities. Ideally, issues raised should be addressed before the wind development companies submit their planning applications.”

The farmers should engage directly with the local communities. Why doesn't the IFA advise any farmer that has been approached by a wind development company to have a chat with their immediate neighbours before they sign anything?

Marooned75

rancher wrote: »

89000 members......must be doing something right a lot of the time

They won't all get one and if they have signed an option for one they won't be allowed object to there neighbours getting one because that is covered in the option they have signed that's when the fun will start

rancher

Marooned75 wrote: »

They won't all get one and if they have signed an option for one they won't be allowed object to there neighbours getting one because that is covered in the option they have signed that's when the fun will start

There's enough apart from the farmers to stop it.........if they put the work in.
There's no need for us to be involved in what is basically a planning issue.
A lot more serious issues at the moment

Marooned75

rancher wrote: »

No deal signed as far as i know, The original option agreement was heavily weighted in favour of the wind company, IFA got the farmers to stop signing up until the companies negotiated a fairer agreement, they then came back to the farmers with what was offered and it was left to the farmers themselves to decide if it was good enough and as far as I know, farmers still have the option to sign up to the original agreement or the improved one

What is the IFA doing for people who have said no to signing on yet are hounded by these companies to sign up.Surely one no should be enough for them,if mainstream say they have more than enough signed up why are they tormenting people to sign up.Is it that they have nt signed up enough in the right places.

Greensleeves

rancher wrote: »

There's enough apart from the farmers to stop it.........if they put the work in.
There's no need for us to be involved in what is basically a planning issue.
A lot more serious issues at the moment

But the IFA is very much involved; Jer Bergin was on the Speaker Panel at the Energy Bridge conference in Tullamore on April 30th.

http://www.energyireland.ie/events/energybridge2013/speakerPanel.php

My question still stands:

Why doesn't the IFA advise any farmer that has been approached by a wind development company to have a chat with their immediate neighbours before they sign anything?

thegoodgirl

Mainstream called to my house last week, I missed them as we were at work but I emailed them.
Sounds to me like they already have the land they want or enough to start anyway.
Looks like they plan on using land which borders the bog at Rathgarrett/Rahincuill near Tyrellspass.

Does anyone know of any local actins groups against the developement or any local meetings that are scheduled to take place.

Greensleeves

thegoodgirl wrote: »

Mainstream called to my house last week, I missed them as we were at work but I emailed them.
Sounds to me like they already have the land they want or enough to start anyway.
Looks like they plan on using land which borders the bog at Rathgarrett/Rahincuill near Tyrellspass.

Does anyone know of any local actins groups against the developement or any local meetings that are scheduled to take place.

Lakelands Windfarm Information Group have some meetings scheduled.
Rochfortbridge Information Meeting - Thurs. 30th May @ 9pm - St Josephs Parish Hall / Killucan-Raharney Information Meeting - Sat. 8th June @ 7.15pm - Rathwire Hall

http://lwig.net/index.html

AngryHippie

This is going to be a very contentious issue for the next few years.

I can understand peoples concerns about the safety of wind turbines, from planning right through to operational stages.
I can also understand peoples concerns about the impact on the aesthetics of an scenic area, and potential impacts on their property value.

To put all that back in perspective though, power consumption is still growing, fuel supply is not endless, and the recent developments in Coal seam gas and fracking don't necessarily present a solution to the upcoming energy crisis.

Windfarms are not a complete solution, but they definitely do represent a step in the right direction towards renewable energy supply.

The reality is that not everyone is going to get a happy ending on this one. The energy companies are not going to get their own way a lot of the time. Local residents and landowners are going to lose some battles too.

I think that the energy companies will find the points of least resistance and push through their plans on those areas, and in time, people will come around to realize that windfarms are not the great evil they are made out to be.

To be honest I think the turbines themselves are not particularly harsh or ugly on the landscape, but the power transmission lines definitely take away from from the landscape.

I think if residents and landowners chose their battles and fight to have underground transmission and compact substations to feed the existing grid, they will get a more successful outcome in the long run.

Renewable Energy is required, its required to satisfy the needs of our standard of living. We have two clear options, adapt and succeed or bury our heads in the sand and face crippling costs, intermittent supply and continued devastation of our environment and ecology .

Whether you like it or not, the actual impact of Wind turbines on the environment is relatively low once they have been installed. Management and Engineering of them should satisfy strict conditions minimizing environmental harm during installation.

Unless of course a better solution is discovered within the coming years.

Hermy

Well said!

nice_guy80

AngryHippie wrote: »

This is going to be a very contentious issue for the next few years.

I can understand peoples concerns about the safety of wind turbines, from planning right through to operational stages.
I can also understand peoples concerns about the impact on the aesthetics of an scenic area, and potential impacts on their property value.

To put all that back in perspective though, power consumption is still growing, fuel supply is not endless, and the recent developments in Coal seam gas and fracking don't necessarily present a solution to the upcoming energy crisis.

Windfarms are not a complete solution, but they definitely do represent a step in the right direction towards renewable energy supply.

The reality is that not everyone is going to get a happy ending on this one. The energy companies are not going to get their own way a lot of the time. Local residents and landowners are going to lose some battles too.

I think that the energy companies will find the points of least resistance and push through their plans on those areas, and in time, people will come around to realize that windfarms are not the great evil they are made out to be.

To be honest I think the turbines themselves are not particularly harsh or ugly on the landscape, but the power transmission lines definitely take away from from the landscape.

I think if residents and landowners chose their battles and fight to have underground transmission and compact substations to feed the existing grid, they will get a more successful outcome in the long run.

Renewable Energy is required, its required to satisfy the needs of our standard of living. We have two clear options, adapt and succeed or bury our heads in the sand and face crippling costs, intermittent supply and continued devastation of our environment and ecology .

Whether you like it or not, the actual impact of Wind turbines on the environment is relatively low once they have been installed. Management and Engineering of them should satisfy strict conditions minimizing environmental harm during installation.

Unless of course a better solution is discovered within the coming years.

Some points i agree with

however,
a do you live near a giant wind turbine?
b have you ever seen a giant win turbine?
c why can't they put them offshore? where nobody lives!

Chloe Pink

And following on from the last post, these proposals will not be supplying Ireland with any electricity - they won't even be connected to the Irish grid - any electricity generated fron these turbines will go to the UK - so where's Ireland going to get its electricity from.

And yes AngryHippie, do you live near a wind turbine - if so how far away is it and how big is it
Is a wind turbine proposed near your house and if so how far away is it and how big is it

Greensleeves

Yes, we need renewable energy but we also need to respect the rights of the individuals who will have to live near these wind farms. Greenwire/Energybridge will create one of the biggest windfarms in the world, using the biggest onshore turbines in the world to supply power to the UK. It has been planned behind the backs of the local communities. Democracy cannot be cast aside so easily, hence the protests.

Here is an interesting article about human rights and renewable energy on the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in Mexico:

http://www.aida-americas.org/en/pubs/challenges-deploying-wind-energy-mexico-case-isthmus-tehuantepec

Jester252

Greensleeves wrote: »

But the IFA is very much involved; Jer Bergin was on the Speaker Panel at the Energy Bridge conference in Tullamore on April 30th.

http://www.energyireland.ie/events/energybridge2013/speakerPanel.php

My question still stands:

Why doesn't the IFA advise any farmer that has been approached by a wind development company to have a chat with their immediate neighbours before they sign anything?

Because it is a private business deal between the wind farm developer and the landowner. That why they have development meeting in the local area and planning meeting for the public to raise issues with the development.

Greensleeves

Jester252 wrote: »

Because it is a private business deal between the wind farm developer and the landowner. That why they have development meeting in the local area and planning meeting for the public to raise issues with the development.

I see. And good manners wouldn't suggest that the farmer might tell his neighbour about plans to build the largest onshore wind turbine in the world in the field behind his house?

It might be a private business deal but there will be no hiding place once a 200m high wind turbine is erected in your field. If you are too cowardly to discuss this with your neighbours then perhaps you realise that there is something amiss. After all if there was nothing iffy about any of this there would be no secrecy. Mainstream and Element Power have a responsibility to their shareholders/investors, they won't be living among the wind turbines so they don't have to care about local opinion; the farmers on the other hand will have to live with the consequences.

Divisions are beginning to emerge already...
http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/04/30/4015580-windfarms-dividing-farm-community/

Jester252

Greensleeves wrote: »

I see. And good manners wouldn't suggest that the farmer might tell his neighbour about plans to build the largest onshore wind turbine in the world in the field behind his house?

It might be a private business deal but there will be no hiding place once a 200m high wind turbine is erected in your field. If you are too cowardly to discuss this with your neighbours then perhaps you realise that there is something amiss. After all if there was nothing iffy about any of this there would be no secrecy. Mainstream and Element Power have a responsibility to their shareholders/investors, they won't be living among the wind turbines so they don't have to care about local opinion; the farmers on the other hand will have to live with the consequences.

Divisions are beginning to emerge already...
http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/04/30/4015580-windfarms-dividing-farm-community/

You may not like it but that the truth. Do you inform people in your area when you get a raise? Like I said planning meeting are were concers are to be raised as they wil be heard by the developers. The landowner is only renting the land in a private deal to the developers. They have no reason to get you involve in this deal. If you have an issue go to the developer and your local TD NOT the landowner as they are just doing business that they need to survive.

Chloe Pink

Since when did getting a raise devalue your neighbours property.

Jester252

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Since when did getting a raise devalue your neighbours property.

It is a PRIVATE deal. Any issue with the development should be rised with your local TD and the devlopers not the landowner.

Chloe Pink

People can talk to who ever they want to

Greensleeves

Jester252 wrote: »

It is a PRIVATE deal. Any issue with the development should be rised with your local TD and the devlopers not the landowner.

Yes it is a private deal and each farmer gets to choose whether to host a turbine or not. That choice affects his neighbours and the local community. They will blame him, not a TD, not the developers.

Jester252

Greensleeves wrote: »

Yes it is a private deal and each farmer gets to choose whether to host a turbine or not. That choice affects his neighbours and the local community. They will blame him, not a TD, not the developers.

The deal is a private deal on the landowners private land. This deal does not affect you. The planning permission is what affect the public. That why I'm telling you to rise your issues with your local TD and the developers. Rising your issues with the landowner could lead to a harassment charge. The landowner can't help you. They has been a case where a landower killed himself due to A neigbour who didn't like the development.

Chloe Pink

Jester252 wrote: »

This deal does not affect you.

Of course the deal between the developers and and landowners effects neighbours; Greensleeves is right, if landowners don't sign up with the wind developers there is no deal, there is no planning application and there are no wind turbines - the key factor as to whether wind turbines can be built is whether landowners will rent thier land to the wind developers - it's not really a case of renting land to the wind developers, it's more a case of selling their souls.

The most honourable thing the wind developers could do is offer landowners a deal but suggest that they discuss it with their neighbours and community before committing to anything.

But no, the wind developers spin their propaganda, sign up landowners and then say that neighbours shouldn't talk to each other about these giant turbines for fear of the landowners killing themselves and for fear of neighbours being sued for harassment - this is sick.

Heaven forbid that neighbours should speak with neighbours and discover that they've been spun a load of lies by the wind developers.
After all the wind industry refer to landowners who sign up as "NGA"s - niave, gullible ands apathetic.

If anyone's being harassed, it's those impacted by the wind developers' proposals ands those the wind developers try to sign up - if anyone should be sued for harrassament, it's the wind developers.

Sooner or later the wind developers will be sued for mis-selling, harrassment, loss of property value, damage to health, human rights etc and - I only hope it's sooner (it has already happened but the wind developers bought out the Jane Davis just before the High court hearing.)
But landowners who sign up with the wind developers are not immune to being sued either - it depends what their contracts with the wind developers say.


If a neighbour wishes to speak (reasonably and politely of course) to their neighbour, don't go alone - that way at least there is a witness to what occurred.

Jester252

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Of course the deal between the developers and and landowners effects neighbours; Greensleeves is right, if landowners don't sign up with the wind developers there is no deal, there is no planning application and there are no wind turbines - the key factor as to whether wind turbines can be built is whether landowners will rent thier land to the wind developers - it's not really a case of renting land to the wind developers, it's more a case of selling their souls.

The most honourable thing the wind developers could do is offer landowners a deal but suggest that they discuss it with their neighbours and community before committing to anything.

But no, the wind developers spin their propaganda, sign up landowners and then say that neighbours shouldn't talk to each other about these giant turbines for fear of the landowners killing themselves and for fear of neighbours being sued for harassment - this is sick.

Heaven forbid that neighbours should speak with neighbours and discover that they've been spun a load of lies by the wind developers.
After all the wind industry refer to landowners who sign up as "NGA"s - niave, gullible ands apathetic.

If anyone's being harassed, it's those impacted by the wind developers' proposals ands those the wind developers try to sign up - if anyone should be sued for harrassament, it's the wind developers.

Sooner or later the wind developers will be sued for mis-selling, harrassment, loss of property value, damage to health, human rights etc and - I only hope it's sooner (it has already happened but the wind developers bought out the Jane Davis just before the High court hearing.)
But landowners who sign up with the wind developers are not immune to being sued either - it depends what their contracts with the wind developers say.


If a neighbour wishes to speak (reasonably and politely of course) to their neighbour, don't go alone - that way at least there is a witness to what
occurred.

I know you won't alter your anti-wind views so I'm not going to engage with you. What I'm saying is for other here.
They should not listen to the lies you have posted.
The deal is PRIVATE. Issues should be rised at public meeting that what they are for. Use them.

Chloe Pink

If you have an issue with one of my posts, quote it and provide the counter-evidence.

I don't care whether the deal is private or not - there's nothing private about it's consequences - the divisive approach to securing land for potentential wind turbine development stinks - if wind turbines are so benign what's the problem - why not recommend that potential lessors talk to folks and do their own investigation before they sign anything.

It's not for you to tell neighbours they can no longer talk to each other about these massive proposals.

As for public meetings, it would be helpful if the developers showed up at those they're invited to.

Jester252

Chloe Pink wrote: »

If you have an issue with one of my posts, quote it and provide the counter-evidence.

I don't care whether the deal is private or not - there's nothing private about it's consequences - the divisive approach to securing land for potentential wind turbine development stinks - if wind turbines are so benign what's the problem - why not recommend that potential lessors talk to folks and do their own investigation before they sign anything.

It's not for you to tell neighbours they can no longer talk to each other about these massive proposals.

As for public meetings, it would be helpful if the developers showed up at those they're invited to.

I did and you are the one required to supply evidence as you made the claims. You are anti wind and can't be reasoned with. No amount of peer reviewed independent reports will make you change your mind. I will not respond to any more of your posts.

I am informing rational members of the public the proper way to adreess their issues with the development. Going after the private landowners is not the correct way.

AngryHippie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Some points i agree with

however,
a do you live near a giant wind turbine?
b have you ever seen a giant win turbine?
c why can't they put them offshore? where nobody lives!

a) Not at present.
b) Yes, several, in several different windfarms on several continents. (Ireland, Germany, US, Australia)
c) Because the cost of *installing and maintaining offshore windfarms drastically reduces the environmental efficiency that makes them an effective (partial) solution to the human race's energy needs.

*thing of how expensive (in terms of materials and energy) it is to tow all of it out to sea, install it in deep water, return the energy infrastructure to land and then turn around and maintain all of that from the sea. Compare this to tried and tested construction and maintenance methods on land....It will consume far less fuel, man hours and ultimately $$$ to install and maintain these on land than on water.