revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

username123

relax carry on wrote: »

Just in response to the various posters here who seem to have issues with the way Revenue are implementing the property tax, how would you collect it based on the legislation enacted and limited staff resources available?

It is the legislation enacted that is unfair.

Account should be taken of ability to pay. Someone who is already in debt, in mortgage arrears, on social welfare, redundant, retired, low income, (choose your reason) - is not going to be helped by the mounting debt plus interest of the deferral option and if that person is in NE and has a bank blocking sale to prevent an unsecured loan - then they are faced with a trap they cannot get out of.

Bruthal

username123 wrote: »

It is the legislation enacted that is unfair.

Account should be taken of ability to pay. Someone who is already in debt, in mortgage arrears, on social welfare, redundant, retired, low income, (choose your reason) - is not going to be helped by the mounting debt plus interest of the deferral option and if that person is in NE and has a bank blocking sale to prevent an unsecured loan - then they are faced with a trap they cannot get out of.

Apparently, getting rid of sky solves all their problems.

username123

Bruthal wrote: »

Apparently, getting rid of sky solves all their problems.

The sky? Window tax now is it?

Banjo String

relax carry on wrote: »

Just in response to the various posters here who seem to have issues with the way Revenue are implementing the property tax, how would you collect it based on the legislation enacted and limited staff resources available?

Maybe employees of the Irish revenue dept, could take a leaf from the Greek electricity suppliers book, and grow a pair?

Even the union representing electricity workers at state run company DEI has called on its members to boycott the tax, describing it as "barbaric".

Some workers have said they will refuse to carry out government orders to cut the supply to households that cannot afford to pay.

Last month the electricity employees' protest took a tougher line as they plunged the Ministry of Health into darkness for a few hours in a symbolic gesture, complaining that the ministry owed DEI more than €3.8m (£3.1m, $5m), while state institutions overall owed more than €140m in unpaid electricity bills.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16284970

The Irish history books will not be kind to the current govt, nor those carrying out the policies they've been forced to implement by faceless European billionaires.

darkhorse

SamHall wrote: »

So, the govt can wait on me dying is that it?

I'd say there's 50 - 60 years in me yet, and I'm not planning on croaking in the near future.

Perhaps everyone should simply wait, and pay it then.

It seems to me that it does'nt really matter one way or the other, as its all just money down a big hole, and will be unless we get back to growth. If yiz dont believe me, ask this guy:



Euro zone crisis not over, says ECB's Jens Weidmann - The ...

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

In short, I'd much prefer this than seeing income tax hiked again.

Well, I'd say you'll get your wish as long as this government is in power, cause there is no way that they are going ever going to raise income tax, as they would lose too much in the future. They are definitely not stupid.

clairefontaine

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, I'd say you'll get your wish as long as this government is in power, cause there is no way that they are going ever going to raise income tax, as they would lose too much in the future. They are definitely not stupid.

No point in raising income tax when there is no income. What percentage of this population is actually working in full time jobs?

ilovesleep

darkhorse wrote: »

It seems to me that it does'nt really matter one way or the other, as its all just money down a big hole, and will be unless we get back to growth. If yiz dont believe me, ask this guy:



Euro zone crisis not over, says ECB's Jens Weidmann - The ...

I was just going to write something for this thread on the same lines as this. On growth and things like that. But can't be bothered. Maybe later in the week.

Getting nothing more but contempt from the government. Am absolutely fcuking sick of it.

Stheno

clairefontaine wrote: »

No point in raising income tax when there is no income. What percentage of this population is actually working in full time jobs?

Of the eligible workforce about 80%?

clairefontaine

Stheno wrote: »

Of the eligible workforce about 80%?

No I mean the entire population, including children, one parents, retirees. I'd like that number.

It sometimes seems to me that 30% of the population is floating the whole island.

tayto lover

If the Property Tax and Water Tax don't bridge the hole in the economy then what's next?
I don't believe they know what they are doing and will be back again with even more taxes and aiming at the same people yet again.

Fianna Fail might have launched Titanic Ireland but this lot have sold the lifeboats and Captain Kenny doesn't see the iceberg looming. He's just happy to be in "control".

Stheno

clairefontaine wrote: »

No I mean the entire population, including children, one parents, retirees. I'd like that number.

It sometimes seems to me that 30% of the population is floating the whole island.

Not necessarily. Retirees pay income tax on pensions above a certain threshold, and everyone pays DIRT on savings interest (another form of income tax) and given that there are billions in savings accounts in this country you'd have to significantly expand your definition of who pays either than the eligible workforce, and it would still probably be close to 80%

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

If the Property Tax and Water Tax don't bridge the hole in the economy then what's next?

House NCT's on the way.
You heard it here first............ I'm not even joking.
Once you are registered up, you're fucked

ilovesleep

mikom wrote: »

House NCT's on the way.
You heard it here first............ I'm not even joking.
Once you are registered up, you're fucked

Part of the house NCT is already in place with speptic tank inspection and charges.

clairefontaine

And the BER rating.

Banjo String

mikom wrote: »

House NCT's on the way.
You heard it here first............ I'm not even joking.
Once you are registered up, you're fucked

ilovesleep wrote: »

Part of the house NCT is already in place with speptic tank inspection and charges.

This.

And broadcasting tax will be next.
(in fairness, how would you even know what's required of the house nct if you don't have TV/radio/internet service in the gaff)

Stheno

clairefontaine wrote: »

And the BER rating.

Well that would be important to me if I was renting/buying a house.

I'd rather know the rating than pay four times the amount of heating bills as I was in a badly insulated house.

ilovesleep

tayto lover wrote: »

If the Property Tax and Water Tax don't bridge the hole in the economy then what's next?
I don't believe they know what they are doing and will be back again with even more taxes and aiming at the same people yet again.

Fianna Fail might have launched Titanic Ireland but this lot have sold the lifeboats and Captain Kenny doesn't see the iceberg looming. He's just happy to be in "control".

That's it. All of these extra taxes and charges have two purposes
1) to help close a deficit.
2) to make us more sustainable.

But if you look to the uk, who had all these sustainable measures in place, they have the same problem as us with their unemployment crisis and deficit. As does many other countries in Europe and the USA too. The root of the problem certainly isn't Ireland lacking a property tax or water charges nor will it fix it.

Boombastic

There's a horse's head in my bed being fraped by Fidelma :eek:

ilovesleep

SamHall wrote: »

This.

And broadcasting tax will be next.
(in fairness, how would you even know what's required of the house nct if you don't have TV/radio/internet service in the gaff)

And if you have a broken light, it reduces the value of your home and thus less property tax for them, so then you fail the house nct.

MadYaker

ilovesleep wrote: »

That's it. All of these extra taxes and charges have two purposes
1) to help close a deficit.
2) to make us more sustainable.

But if you look to the uk, who had all these sustainable measures in place, they have the same problem as us with their unemployment crisis and deficit. As does many other countries in Europe and the USA too. The root of the problem certainly isn't Ireland lacking a property tax or water charges nor will it fix it.

England have multiple other reasons for their debts that we don't have, the two aren't even comparable to be honest, the invasion of Afghanistan being one contributing factor.

Vladimir Kurtains

Nobody has really clarified this but are LA houses exempt ala the HHC

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Surprisingly, they're not exempt.

So, the Local Property Tax is paid by all homeowners including local authorities and then (if we take the gubberments word on this) distributed back to the Local Authority? They send their money to Revenue just for Revenue to send it straight back to them?

Righty O.

Bozacke

What angers me is how they slipped in the clause that the evaluation will only include the first1 acre of land. So here I am in negative equity struggling to pay my current bills and houses, mansions and farms on 100 acres and more in my area will pay the same property tax as me and some mansions and farms a few miles further away will actually pay less than me, even though they have plenty more than me and despite the fact I paid a fortune in stamp duty only a few years ago. So FG reneges on their promise that those who paid stamp duty during the peak would be exempt but instead slips in this 1 acre clause for their rich cronies. Yes, time for a revolution!

Banjo String

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Nobody has really clarified this but are LA houses exempt ala the HHC



So, the Local Property Tax is paid by all homeowners including local authorities and then (if we take the gubberments word on this) distributed back to the Local Authority? They send their money to Revenue just for Revenue to send it straight back to them?

Righty O.

He prob means homeowners in la housing strawberry.
Not the tenants.

No, I think its the local authority in its capacity as a landlord that has to pay. But I could be wrong.

darkhorse

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

No, I think its the local authority in its capacity as a landlord that has to pay. But I could be wrong.

Among the changes is some good news for local authorities: all housing owned by councils or approved housing bodies will be subject to tax at the lowest possible valuation for the next four years.
This means a flat rate of €90 per property instead of €315, for example, if the house was worth between €150,000 and €200,000.

Properties owned by Local Authorities or Social Housing providers will not be exempt unless it is provided to people with special housing needs such as the elderly or people with disabilities. Liability will rest with the local authority or social housing organisation as owner.
Update – Feb 13th 2013 - All local authority homes will be automatically placed in the lowest valuation band and pay €90 a year.

Bullseye1

MadYaker wrote: »

England have multiple other reasons for their debts that we don't have, the two aren't even comparable to be honest, the invasion of Afghanistan being one contributing factor.

It is funny how we only like to compare ourselves to the UK when talkig about taxes...."the UK had property tax why shouldn't we"....but to compare the deficit and "the UK is different its silly to compare ourselves with regards our deficit".

Prundlebox

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It is funny how we only like to compare ourselves to the UK...."the UK had property tax why shouldn't we"....but to compare the deficit and "the UK is different its silly to compare ourselves with regards our deficit".

We like to compare ourselves to 15-20 of the world's highest taxed countries (of about 200 countries in total) and then call ourselves low tax because we're not at the top of the list

I can see how this will go with property tax

1. "We're still the lowest in Europe"
2. "Among the lowest in Europe"
3. "Still below the European average"
4. "Average property tax for Europe, despite increases"
5. "Above average but low population density and high cost of living are a good excuse to justify it"
6. "Still not among the highest in Europe (and therefore the world)"
7. Still not as high as the UK

No property tax was one of the few good things left about this country. You could always rest assured that once you had your house paid off the government wouldn't come looking for money simply because you lived in your own home

ilovesleep

MadYaker wrote: »

England have multiple other reasons for their debts that we don't have, the two aren't even comparable to be honest, the invasion of Afghanistan being one contributing factor.

I wasn't talking about their debt and what they owe. I was talking about their deficit. The hole in their finances.

The uk have many sustainable measures and yet have an unemployment crisis and a deficit.

dxhound2005

Prundlebox wrote: »

We like to compare ourselves to 15-20 of the world's highest taxed countries (of about 200 countries in total) and then call ourselves low tax because we're not at the top of the list

I can see how this will go with property tax

1. "We're still the lowest in Europe"
2. "Among the lowest in Europe"
3. "Still below the European average"
4. "Average property tax for Europe, despite increases"
5. "Above average but low population density and high cost of living are a good excuse to justify it"
6. "Still not among the highest in Europe (and therefore the world)"
7. Still not as high as the UK

No property tax was one of the few good things left about this country. You could always rest assured that once you had your house paid off the government wouldn't come looking for money simply because you lived in your own home

Maybe you could name some of the countries that "we" like to compare ourselves to.

Your 7 point invented argument will only apply after November 2016. But the property tax will be gone after the 2016 election anyway. FG and Labour will be wiped out for charging people to live in their own homes, even ones that are not paid off. So say the experts here ,who like yourself, have great insight into the future.

So you can look forward to adding No Property Tax back to the few good things left. What are the other ones?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe you could name some of the countries that "we" like to compare ourselves to.

In fairness now......

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Their party operates a property tax in the North but claims it doesn't exist while opposing it in the Republic. How about that for cynicism.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

At least they cant seize your house for non payment like in the North. If Sinn Fein come to your door you could ask them about that.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How are you getting on yourself? Are you one of the people with no money left after paying for essentials? Luckily other people have enough ingenuity in the face of the plethora of adversities you outlined to still be the 14th richest per capita in the world. Not bad.

http://www.therichest.org/nation/richest-countries-in-the-world/

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Your 7 point invented argument will only apply after November 2016. But the property tax will be gone after the 2016 election anyway. FG and Labour will be wiped out for charging people to live in their own homes, even ones that are not paid off. So say the experts here ,who like yourself, have great insight into the future.

So you can look forward to adding No Property Tax back to the few good things left. What are the other ones?

When on the subject of 'invented' arguments, didn't you come up with the gem of an argument as to how employees of very successful private companies, such as online gambling giants, and airlines should be fuming about the fact their bosses get paid many times more than Enda Kenny?

I could be wrong here, but Michael O'Learys of this world aren't paying themselves with taxpayers money, borrowed with interest to run a bankrupt country.

You also come up with the suggestion that we should apprehend Sinn Fein on 'how you could lose your home' if a homeowner didn't pay their rates in the north.



Next up, give out to Tesco staff about the crap yoghurts on sale in centra.

ART6

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It is funny how we only like to compare ourselves to the UK when talkig about taxes...."the UK had property tax why shouldn't we"....but to compare the deficit and "the UK is different its silly to compare ourselves with regards our deficit".

The government has used this comparison with the UK to justify it "low" property tax. It's not the taxpayer who has done that. However, if we are going to take such a comparison, and argue that the money will be used to fund local authorities then OK. If I lived in NI I might find myself paying a property tax of around €1,300 pa so I'm told, so the €315 a year that I look like having to pay sounds reasonable, doesn't it? At least it does until I look at what funding I will then actually be providing for local services:

1. Motor tax €710 pa. paid to the LA to fund services.
2. Bin charge €260 pa.
3. Property tax €315 pa.

Total €1,285

However, It's still probably reasonable, and a whole €15 less than I would pay in NI, so that's alright then. The government has been truthful as usual. Except that when I look at the excellent local services that I enjoy: A road without pavements, drainage, or lighting, full of potholes. No public transport at all. The nearest sub post office six miles away because An Post closed our village PO. A mains water supply that is regularly disconnected because of bursts and when it is working it delivers foul water that is unusable until it has been filtered through activated charcoal. The nearest Garda station eight miles away and no local patrols ever, so burglaries are quite common.

Still, mustn't complain. At least the government has kept its promise to not increase income tax. True, there is a Universal Social Charge that is levied as a percentage of income just as income tax is, but it is of course not an income tax. In my case it looks like being around €2,100 this year.

Thanks FG/Labour. I really enjoy being treated like a mentally deficient cash cow by cheating, lying parasites like you!:mad:

Chips Lovell

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So, the Local Property Tax is paid by all homeowners including local authorities and then (if we take the gubberments word on this) distributed back to the Local Authority? They send their money to Revenue just for Revenue to send it straight back to them?

Yes, since Local Authorities own the houses, they're the ones that are liable. They're planning on raising their rents to recoup the tax.

Wibbs

ART6 wrote: »

The government has used this comparison with the UK to justify it "low" property tax. It's not the taxpayer who has done that. However, if we are going to take such a comparison, and argue that the money will be used to fund local authorities then OK. If I lived in NI I might find myself paying a property tax of around €1,300 pa so I'm told, so the €315 a year that I look like having to pay sounds reasonable, doesn't it? At least it does until I look at what funding I will then actually be providing for local services:

1. Motor tax €710 pa. paid to the LA to fund services.
2. Bin charge €260 pa.
3. Property tax €315 pa.

Total €1,285

However, It's still probably reasonable, and a whole €15 less than I would pay in NI, so that's alright then. The government has been truthful as usual. Except that when I look at the excellent local services that I enjoy: A road without pavements, drainage, or lighting, full of potholes. No public transport at all. The nearest sub post office six miles away because An Post closed our village PO. A mains water supply that is regularly disconnected because of bursts and when it is working it delivers foul water that is unusable until it has been filtered through activated charcoal. The nearest Garda station eight miles away and no local patrols ever, so burglaries are quite common.

Still, mustn't complain. At least the government has kept its promise to not increase income tax. True, there is a Universal Social Charge that is levied as a percentage of income just as income tax is, but it is of course not an income tax. In my case it looks like being around €2,100 this year.

Thanks FG/Labour. I really enjoy being treated like a mentally deficient cash cow by cheating, lying parasites like you!:mad:

Well put A. Though if I may add you forgot the upcoming water charge and the septic tank charge for rural folks to add to the list. The water charge alone IIRC will add another 200 quid at least. At first. Also is the figure you quoted for your HC the actual charge or the bargain half rate of the first year? If the latter add a further 300 quid to that total.

smash

Wibbs wrote: »

Well put A. Though if I may add you forgot the upcoming water charge and the septic tank charge for rural folks to add to the list. The water charge alone IIRC will add another 200 quid at least. At first. Also is the figure you quoted for your HC the actual charge or the bargain half rate of the first year? If the latter add a further 300 quid to that total.

And stuff like the fact that GP visits are subsidised up north.

Wibbs

smash wrote: »

And stuff like the fact that GP visits are subsidised up north.

Their services are generally better across the board. That's the kicker. Too much of this extra cash will be wasted. History has shown this.

Banjo String

smash wrote: »

And stuff like the fact that GP visits are subsidised up north.

Free actually. As is an A&E visit, hospital appointment etc.

Prescriptions are capped at (iirc) £4.

Our motor tax, not only is it dramatically higher in most cases, but there are no tolled roads up north either.

Also:

Don't forget the book fees, school transport, and school dinners.

Lower vat rate.

Will I go on?

Cantona's Collars

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Nobody has really clarified this but are LA houses exempt ala the HHC



So, the Local Property Tax is paid by all homeowners including local authorities and then (if we take the gubberments word on this) distributed back to the Local Authority? They send their money to Revenue just for Revenue to send it straight back to them?

Righty O.

Somebody in an office somewhere has to justify being employed,hence the nonsensical roundabout way of the LA getting this money.

Surveys of water valves going on in Enniscorthy now in preparation for the Water Charges,yer man doing it said they won't be near ready to roll out installation of meters for a couple of years yet.

Regarding the Property Tax,a postman texted Ray Darcy's show earlier saying he was in the process of delivering his first batch of letters from Revenue.

darkhorse

smash wrote: »

And stuff like the fact that GP visits are subsidised up north.

Can I just jump on the back of your post, smash, as you mention GP visits. I had a minor accident on Saturday night, and I had to see the Doctor yesterday morning(Tues). Anyway, the GP visit cost me €40 and the perscription cost €22. On Thursday last, I had to get some medication for an ongoing condition, which cost me €63(this is a monthly gig). Thats €125 in the month of March. Now, the accident I had, hopefully, would not be a re-occurring thing, however, the monthly payment of the €63 is just that, a monthly re-occurring bill.
Here is the point. I think I am among the lucky people, as I know people whose medical outlay cost a lot more than what I'm paying out. So, going back to the subject of the thread "revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country", I have two questions for dx, 1) should people give up paying for medication, in some cases, maybe life saving medication, in order to pay extra taxes, 2) How would it compare with your favourite comparison location, NI, when we have to pay the property tax, ya think maybe our government will incorporate all the services that they receive up North?

username123

zerks wrote: »

Regarding the Property Tax,a postman texted Ray Darcy's show earlier saying he was in the process of delivering his first batch of letters from Revenue.

Good, I need something to wipe my arse with.

Bullseye1

Wibbs wrote: »

Their services are generally better across the board. That's the kicker. Too much of this extra cash will be wasted. History has shown this.

Starting with trips away for St. Patricks day:pac:

Bullseye1

ART6 wrote: »

The government has used this comparison with the UK to justify it "low" property tax. It's not the taxpayer who has done that. However, if we are going to take such a comparison, and argue that the money will be used to fund local authorities then OK. If I lived in NI I might find myself paying a property tax of around €1,300 pa so I'm told, so the €315 a year that I look like having to pay sounds reasonable, doesn't it? At least it does until I look at what funding I will then actually be providing for local services:

1. Motor tax €710 pa. paid to the LA to fund services.
2. Bin charge €260 pa.
3. Property tax €315 pa.

Total €1,285

However, It's still probably reasonable, and a whole €15 less than I would pay in NI, so that's alright then. The government has been truthful as usual. Except that when I look at the excellent local services that I enjoy: A road without pavements, drainage, or lighting, full of potholes. No public transport at all. The nearest sub post office six miles away because An Post closed our village PO. A mains water supply that is regularly disconnected because of bursts and when it is working it delivers foul water that is unusable until it has been filtered through activated charcoal. The nearest Garda station eight miles away and no local patrols ever, so burglaries are quite common.

Still, mustn't complain. At least the government has kept its promise to not increase income tax. True, there is a Universal Social Charge that is levied as a percentage of income just as income tax is, but it is of course not an income tax. In my case it looks like being around €2,100 this year.

Thanks FG/Labour. I really enjoy being treated like a mentally deficient cash cow by cheating, lying parasites like you!:mad:

Absolutely and they also changed how PRSi is calculated, I bet people have noticed a reduction in take home pay already. "We won't touch income tax"....me ass.

ART6

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Absolutely and they also changed how PRSi is calculated, I bet people have noticed a reduction in take home pay already. "We won't touch income tax"....me ass.

This is why I have come to detest this coalition for treating us all like fools. "We won't increase income tax. We'll just slap on another tax or three on your income and call it something else. We expect that you will accept this because we believe that you are all too stupid to understand."

I just hope that the grinning ape Kenny, the sour faced, scowling Noonan, and that over-sized dinosaur Hoganosaurus rot in hell for what they have done to the people who believed them and elected them. My only satisfaction is that I didn't vote for them because I didn't believe a damned word they said, so now I go around boasting "I told you so!"

Bruthal

mikom wrote: »

House NCT's on the way.
You heard it here first............ I'm not even joking.
Once you are registered up, you're fucked

Yea all they need now is a valid tax disk displayed on living room windows next.

Le_Dieux

MadYaker wrote: »

Nobody will be calling to your house to collect it....[/QUO

How do You know?

Bruthal

username123 wrote: »

Good, I need something to wipe my arse with.

Then return to sender.

Le_Dieux

SamHall wrote: »

In fairness now......










When on the subject of 'invented' arguments, didn't you come up with the gem of an argument as to how employees of very successful private companies, such as online gambling giants, and airlines should be fuming about the fact their bosses get paid many times more than Enda Kenny?

I could be wrong here, but Michael O'Learys of this world aren't paying themselves with taxpayers money, borrowed with interest to run a bankrupt country.

You also come up with the suggestion that we should apprehend Sinn Fein on 'how you could lose your home' if a homeowner didn't pay their rates in the north.



Next up, give out to Tesco staff about the crap yoghurts on sale in centra.

EXCELLENT retort Sam...brilliant!!

mikom

mikom wrote: »

House NCT's on the way.
You heard it here first............ I'm not even joking.
Once you are registered up, you're fucked

It begins.......

Galwayguy35 on the septic tank charge thread wrote: »

I thought this was a once off inspection but I got a letter out today telling me that I will have to renew the registration in 2017.

billyhead

Does anyone know if your an owner of an affordable house with the county council if you still have to pay a full or reduced rate i.e €90

flutered

Chinasea wrote: »

You have not told me where we shall get the money to pay for services to your door but:

We could drag up of tons of multifaceted minorities, majorities and Skivers and mé féiners who 'can't afford' to pay or live anywhere at any given time. It would be endless. We will always have poor just like we will always have prostitution.

What I won't entertain is wasting any more of my time time dancing around fellow citizens who advocate skiving out of paying badly needed tax for his beloved country, not only by trying to incite mass noncompliance in this case but blatantly advocating employing someone on the black market to do his plumbing etc.

yes we could, but why can you not answer two simple questions, as you have been asked to many times.