revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

MadYaker

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It is funny how we only like to compare ourselves to the UK when talkig about taxes...."the UK had property tax why shouldn't we"....but to compare the deficit and "the UK is different its silly to compare ourselves with regards our deficit".

I never said we should have a property tax because the UK have one, and it is unreasonable to compare our deficit to the UK's.

Xenophile

SamHall wrote: »

Revenue have began to bare their teeth,and issue a threat to every eligible homeowner on the island that 'they'll get you'.



Let's hope there is anarchy on the streets!

I'll not be paying this, and if they forcibly take it from me, I'll have to resort to doing a lot of black market work to recoup it.

I own my house, I worked hard to provide it, payed all costs associated with building improvements to it, I have soley maintained it, and paid tens of thousands in stamp duty already on it.

In short, revenue can go and shíte. :mad:

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.

Do you think this will threaten Bono as well, do you think he will join you in a protest in the streets ?................................ I have my doubts! I don't think so.

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.[/QUOTE]



I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.[/QUOTE]

darkhorse

Xenophile wrote: »

Do you think this will threaten Bono as well, do you think he will join you in a protest in the streets ?................................ I have my doubts! I don't think so.

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Are you a parrot?

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

In fairness now......










When on the subject of 'invented' arguments, didn't you come up with the gem of an argument as to how employees of very successful private companies, such as online gambling giants, and airlines should be fuming about the fact their bosses get paid many times more than Enda Kenny?

I could be wrong here, but Michael O'Learys of this world aren't paying themselves with taxpayers money, borrowed with interest to run a bankrupt country.

You also come up with the suggestion that we should apprehend Sinn Fein on 'how you could lose your home' if a homeowner didn't pay their rates in the north.



Next up, give out to Tesco staff about the crap yoghurts on sale in centra.

Just for the sake of accuracy this is what I actually posted. Your precis does not convey the correct sense of my argument.

It's good to see that the recession has passed over a lot of the private sector and they are doing nicely. Like the gambling companies, the Pay TV companies and the airlines.

If any of their employees are suffering a pay cut they should be jumping up and down asking why their top brass are getting 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach.


If I was an employee of a company where the bosses paid themselves €2 million a year I would be asking questions about that if they cut my wages.

Banjo String

Xenophile wrote: »

Do you think this will threaten Bono as well, do you think he will join you in a protest in the streets ?................................ I have my doubts! I don't think

Yeah, cos bono doesn't evade Tax after all.

lol asking for a payrise from the private company boss.

Two hopes dx, two hopes.

Edit: referred to wrong poster.

dxhound2005

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

lol asking for a payrise from the private company boss.

Two hopes dx, two hopes.

Edit: referred to wrong poster.

Some people are getting a rise.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/salaries-rising-again-as-private-sector-workers-enjoying-higher-increases-than-public-service-28939956.html

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just for the sake of accuracy this is what I actually posted. Your precis does not convey the correct sense of my argument.

It's good to see that the recession has passed over a lot of the private sector and they are doing nicely. Like the gambling companies, the Pay TV companies and the airlines.

If any of their employees are suffering a pay cut they should be jumping up and down asking why their top brass are getting 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach.


If I was an employee of a company where the bosses paid themselves €2 million a year I would be asking questions about that if they cut my wages.

It is still a nonsensical argument.

Enda Kenny, Taoiseach of Ireland, salary €200,000.
Ireland running a deficit of close to 12 billion a year, money needed to be borrowed from the the markets, repaid by Tax payer, with interest to pay his salary.

What the owners/MD's of huge private companies get paid is of no concern to me, I'mnot funding their lifestyle through taxes. Besides, that is how capitalism functions after all.

Although some in our country only embrace capitalism when it suits.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

It is still a nonsensical argument.

Enda Kenny, Taoiseach of Ireland, salary €200,000.
Ireland running a deficit of close to 12 billion a year, money needed to be borrowed from the the markets, repaid by Tax payer, with interest to pay his salary.

What the owners/MD's of huge private countries get paid is of no concern to me, I'mnot funding their lifestyle through taxes. Besides, that is how capitalism functions after all.

Although some in our country only embrace capitalism when it suits.

How about this for an idea. Set the salaries for politicians at a level that would attract this talent which is so valuable in the private sector. After all politics is not a vocation. These guys would do a far better job of running the country, wouldn't they?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How about this for an idea. Set the salaries for politicians at a level that would attract this talent which is so valuable in the private sector. After all politics is not a vocation. These guys would do a far better job of running the country, wouldn't they?

Are you a politician?

darkhorse

SamHall wrote: »

Are you a politician?

I think he is, cause he does'nt like answering questions.

Le_Dieux

darkhorse wrote: »

I think he is, cause he does'nt like answering questions.

As You well know DH...seems to be a trait from the pro brigade/td's/cllrs. (take your pick to describe these people).

mfceiling

SamHall wrote: »

It is still a nonsensical argument.

Enda Kenny, Taoiseach of Ireland, salary €200,000.
Ireland running a deficit of close to 12 billion a year, money needed to be borrowed from the the markets, repaid by Tax payer, with interest to pay his salary.

What the owners/MD's of huge private countries get paid is of no concern to me, I'mnot funding their lifestyle through taxes. Besides, that is how capitalism functions after all.

Although some in our country only embrace capitalism when it suits.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How about this for an idea. Set the salaries for politicians at a level that would attract this talent which is so valuable in the private sector. After all politics is not a vocation. These guys would do a far better job of running the country, wouldn't they?

Don't want to sound smart but how many school teachers in the government deserve €200,000 or anything close to it?

What is the average wage for a school teacher - probably multiples for working in politics - better holidays in the daíl too.

Geuze

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So, the Local Property Tax is paid by all homeowners including local authorities and then (if we take the gubberments word on this) distributed back to the Local Authority? They send their money to Revenue just for Revenue to send it straight back to them?

YES.

I suppose it does sound strange, a bit circular.

But yes, the LA, as house owners, will pay the new LPT into the Local Govt Fund.

BUT, note that if say, Tipp county, pay 100k in LPT, they won't get exactly that 100k back.

If the LPT in county x is 5m, it's not the case that county x will get exactly that 5m in LPT.

There is a formula to redistribute the LGF, as there always has been.

weiland79

I've just filled out the daft.ie property tax calculator and it says that my tax for 2014 is double that of 2013. Is this correct and if so WTF!

seamus189

weiland79 wrote: »

I've just filled out the daft.ie property tax calculator and it says that my tax for 2014 is double that of 2013. Is this correct and if so WTF!

2013 tax charge is only pro rata for a portion of the year while 2014 will be a whole year's charge.

delw

weiland79 wrote: »

I've just filled out the daft.ie property tax calculator and it says that my tax for 2014 is double that of 2013. Is this correct and if so WTF!

AFAIK we will only be paying from June this year,ie half a year so 2014 will be double

Banjo String

Have any of you even considered, that the half-year payment for 2013 was a ploy to get more and more to register?

Next year, 2014 will be an increase of 100% from this year, then when its bumped up by less than that again i (so less than 100% rise) in future years, you'll be told to count your lucky stars.

Its a big scam, you've been warned.

seamus

SamHall wrote: »

Have any of you even considered, that the half-year payment for 2013 was a ploy to get more and more to register?

Next year, 2014 will be an increase of 100% for this year, them when its bumped up by less than that again in future years, you'll be told to count your lucky stars.

Its a big scam, you've been warned.

At no stage was the nature of this ever hidden or otherwise made unclear. The half-year payment was explained on two counts;

1. To give Revenue time to get their systems in place to implement this
2. So that people weren't landed with a full liability just 3 months after the tax was announced.

How can something be a scam when it was clearly spelled out that this year was a half payment and next year a full payment?

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

At no stage was the nature of this ever hidden or otherwise made unclear. The half-year payment was explained on two counts;

1. To give Revenue time to get their systems in place to implement this
2. So that people weren't landed with a full liability just 3 months after the tax was announced.

How can something be a scam when it was clearly spelled out that this year was a half payment and next year a full payment?

What will it rise to post 2016 Seamus?

Will it take a motor Tax style jump in price? Motor Tax, which incidentally gets funnelled into the exact same pot this charge is (allegedly) going to?

I don't buy into it, its a scam, a load of baloney, and its riddled with flaws.

Here's a question Seamus, what if someone buys a house next month, will they pay stamp duty, then property Tax in the summer?

Chips Lovell

SamHall wrote: »

Here's a question Seamus, what if someone buys a house next month, will they pay stamp duty, then property Tax in the summer?

They don't, providing they're buying a new house or are a first time buyer.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

They don't.

Don't what?

Stamp duty, or property Tax?

Chips Lovell

Property Tax

seamus

SamHall wrote: »

What will it rise to post 2016 Seamus?

What relevance does that have? Who ever heard of a tax which never changes? Did they ever claim that this tax would never increase, ever?

Here's a question Seamus, what if someone buys a new house next month, will they pay stamp duty, then property Tax in the summer?

That depends. If they're a first time buyer or the house is a new build, they will be exempt from the LPT.

Otherwise, if they purchase before 1st May, then yes they will be liable for the half year.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

What relevance does that have? Who ever heard of a tax which never changes? Did they ever claim that this tax would never increase, ever?

It might have a very severe relevance to the hundred odd thousand currently in mortgage arrears, or to the families who've decided that rather than 'break the law' and even though they're already at the pin of their collar financially, they'll pay this tax this year, then when it goes up buy God knows what after 2016, and they cannot pay the tax, I'm asking you to suggest to me what that family then gives up or sacrifices to pay the tax?
With a car, you can down size/do without the car etc etc.

Will the family who cannot pay, neglect a mortgage payment, medicinal bills, clothing for the kids, food on the table?

They should do without, just so FG get their pound of flesh?

seamus wrote: »

That depends. If they're a first time buyer or the house is a new build, they will be exempt from the LPT.

Otherwise, if they purchase before 1st May, then yes they will be liable for the half year.

Seems legit.

I'll pay when they refund my stamp duty. Not before.

seamus

Pointless rhetoric SamHall, hot air worthy of the Dáil. You're not even attempting to have anything that looks like a discussion about this.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

Pointless rhetoric SamHall, hot air worthy of the Dáil. You're not even attempting to have anything that looks like a discussion about this.

Complete and utter poppy cock Seamus.

I asked you completely reasonable questions, you've dodged them and not even attempted to answer them (like lots more of the pro tax on this thread beforehand)

You can't answer simply because you can't fathom what it would be like to be in that position.

Simple as that.

seamus

SamHall wrote: »

I asked you completely reasonable questions, you've dodged them and not even attempted to answer them

I don't see any questions in your post.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

I don't see any questions in your post.

Ok.

How you missed two questions is beyond me tbh, but here you go.

It might have a very severe relevance to the hundred odd thousand currently in mortgage arrears, or to the families who've decided that rather than 'break the law' and even though they're already at the pin of their collar financially, they'll pay this tax this year, then when it goes up buy God knows what after 2016, and they cannot pay the tax, I'm asking you to suggest to me what that family then gives up or sacrifices to pay the tax? With a car, you can down size/do without the car etc etc.

Then i asked:

Will the family who cannot pay, neglect a mortgage payment, medicinal bills, clothing for the kids, food on the table?

Don't feel obliged to answer, but don't imply that

You're not even attempting to have anything that looks like a discussion

I'm being polite, and asking perfectly reasonable and legitimate questions, what more do you need from me in a 'discussion' tbh?

seamus

What will the family do? That depends on the family. Some will pay it no problem, some will be unable to pay it, the vast majority in the middle will figure it out. It's a meaningless question with no actual answer and therefore does nothing to further the discussion.

What do you suggest they tax instead of property? Can you give me an example of a stable tax which can bring in the same income as the LPT but which is guaranteed to not put any families at risk?

Chips Lovell

People on low incomes or in mortgage difficulties can apply for a deferral.

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

What will the family do? That depends on the family. Some will pay it no problem, some will be unable to pay it, the vast majority in the middle will figure it out. It's a meaningless question with no actual answer.

What do you suggest they tax instead of property? Can you give me an example of a stable tax which can bring in the same income as the LPT but which is guaranteed to not put any families at risk?

Maybe if they had stuck to even a wee bit of their 5 Point Plan.
Closing the useless fcuking Seanad and then go a wee bit further i.e. halve the number of T.D.'s.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe if they had stuck to even a wee bit of their 5 Point Plan.
Closing the useless fcuking Seanad and then go a wee bit further i.e. halve the number of T.D.'s.

Will that save as much money as the LPT is meant to bring in?

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

Will that save as much money as the LPT is meant to bring in?

It would make a lot of people a bit happier trying to pay it.

There is no point going over old ground again. People have suggested many ways and alternatives to Property Tax but they fall on deaf ears.
The party line just has to be towed it seems.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

It would make a lot of people a bit happier trying to pay it.

So, no, is your answer.

Any other suggestions?

I don't disagree that the members of the Dáil need to massively reduce their salaries and reform the houses.

But I don't believe that this gives me any ethical perogative to refuse to pay my taxes.

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

So, no, is your answer.

Any other suggestions?

I don't disagree that the members of the Dáil need to massively reduce their salaries and reform the houses.

But I don't believe that this gives me any ethical perogative to refuse to pay my taxes.

If you go to the old Property Tax thread yo will see many examples from many people of how to raise just as much as the PT will bring in.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

If you go to the old Property Tax thread yo will see many examples from many people of how to raise just as much as the PT will bring in.

And these are all stable forms of taxation which will not cause any family to have to suffer economic hardship?

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

And these are all stable forms of taxation which will not cause any family to have to suffer economic hardship?

I believe many of them are.

bgrizzley

seamus wrote: »

And these are all stable forms of taxation which will not cause any family to have to suffer economic hardship?

lpt will cause some familys to suffer economic hardship...

...and imho many families.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe many of them are.

Right. Any reason why you haven't gone to the government with details on how they can access this free money?

Rather than have me trawl through hundreds of posts to find something which may not even exist, care to venture even a hint at one of these taxes?

lpt will cause some familys to suffer economic hardship...

Yep, sure will. Find me a significant source of tax income that won't.

Banjo String

Why say you didn't see any questions in my post though? They weren't cryptic/hidden.

Anyway, water under the bridge.

There already have been tonnes of taxation suggestions, alternative to a property tax.

I'm going to go for this one though.

An actual council tax/rates system like in the UK.

Hell, it might even bring in more than a property tax, and the councils could start to provide services to the public with the monies collected. (it would also target tenants)

So, stable tax income, that holds councils accountable to services provided/money paid to them.


I see no problems? Bar the fact that rates and council tax demand a service provided, which results on a few Less bills per year for the homeowner.

FG's lpt system is just money to revenue for nothing in return. Which gives most people the illusion that the cash collected might actually be diverted to something, or someone else.


For the record, I'd pay more than what's being asked from me, from this tax. (just for clarity)

There's your stable taxation suggestion right there.

bgrizzley

seamus wrote: »

Right. Any reason why you haven't gone to the government with details on how they can access this free money?

Rather than have me trawl through hundreds of posts to find something which may not even exist, care to venture even a hint at one of these taxes?

Yep, sure will. Find me a significant source of tax income that won't.

Income tax.

seamus

SamHall wrote: »

An actual council tax/rates system like in the UK.

As far as I can see, the UK council tax system works pretty much the same way as our one, with the major difference being that local councils set their own rates rather than a blanket national rate.

Which I agree is the best way to do it, but to transpose to Ireland requires relatively large reform of the way the country's finances work and I don't believe would have been possible to implement in two years as per our troika agreement.

I understand that the medium-term goal is to move to this kind of system.

bgrizzley wrote: »

Income tax.

...is stable and doesn't cause people to suffer economic hardship?

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

Right. Any reason why you haven't gone to the government with details on how they can access this free money?

Rather than have me trawl through hundreds of posts to find something which may not even exist, care to venture even a hint at one of these taxes?

Yep, sure will. Find me a tax that won't.

People have suggested many things which would help and not many of them were taxes. We seem obsessed with taxes in this country of late.

1.Cut Free Legal Aid except for those found not guilty. Make criminals pay from their dole or the families of young offenders pay.
2. Cut the number in prison except for those who are too dangerous to be out. Make the others work under supervision doing jobs that the council are not doing i.e. cleaning off graffiti, filling pot holes neglected by the council etc. This would help make up for the work neglected due to the shortfall from retirements.
3. Make the career dole merchants (not those genuinely out of work) do similar jobs like gritting footpaths in bad weather (the council only do the roads anyway)
4. Rise the tax on alcohol and cigarettes (Too many using the health care system for self-inflicted illnesses.)
5. Rise in Corporate Tax by 2% -- they won't flee the country.
6. Tax the super-rich a bit. It's patriotic to pay something and to pay feck all is not good.
7. Close the Seanad and half the Dail numbers. Too many wasters.
8 Cut T.D.'s expenses as there are far too many.

Off the top of my head these are just a few. Only 3 taxes and these don't effect those already struggling.

seamus

tayto lover wrote: »

Only 3 taxes and these don't effect those already struggling.

I disagree. All 3 have the potential to massively affect those struggling, especially increased taxes on cigs and alcohol. And none of these suggestions are a form of stable taxation.

Tisserand

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. All 3 have the potential to massively affect those struggling, especially increased taxes on cigs and alcohol. And none of these suggestions are a form of stable taxation.

I'm out of work, was struggling, gave up cigarettes and alcohol, now I manage - not comfortably but enough to pay all bills and taxes due.

flutered

get rid of the below cost selling of drink, problem solved, as it would bring in a lot more than this tax which will cruxify at least two thirds of the population, but they have not the balls to take on the multiples.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

As far as I can see, the UK council tax system works pretty much the same way as our one, with the major difference being that local councils set their own rates rather than a blanket national rate.

Which I agree is the best way to do it, but to transpose to Ireland requires relatively large reform of the way the country's finances work and I don't believe would have been possible to implement in two years as per our troika agreement.

I understand that the medium-term goal is to move to this kind of system.

...is stable and doesn't cause people to suffer economic hardship?

You're in agreement that services should be provided?

bgrizzley

seamus wrote: »

As far as I can see, the UK council tax system works pretty much the same way as our one, with the major difference being that local councils set their own rates rather than a blanket national rate.

Which I agree is the best way to do it, but to transpose to Ireland requires relatively large reform of the way the country's finances work and I don't believe would have been possible to implement in two years as per our troika agreement.

I understand that the medium-term goal is to move to this kind of system.

...is stable and doesn't cause people to suffer economic hardship?

i never said stable, i just commented that the LPT was going to hurt families. im more worried abnout hungry children than stability.

As for economic hardship , maybe if you consider luxuries economic hardship but i cant see how otherwise.
if i was off sick for 12 months, i wouldnt have to pay income tax. how would i fare out in the same situation with property tax as it stands? defer it to add to my spiraling mortgage/CCs/debts while i was sick? yeah right...

heartseeker

seamus wrote: »

They actually work very quickly when they owe you money. Last two tax returns we were due a refund and I had the cheque in my hand in less than two weeks.

Seamus I think the dailymail would more than likely be after your services for doing such a good pr job on behalf of the revenue.:P Worth your weight in gold I'm sensing a payrise for you or a St.Paddys day junket to New York.Whats your preference?