revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

MadsL

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Unlike you I am not interested in divulging my laundry in public . I don't for one second resent anyone who has emigrated. I am angry that you and many others have had to emigrate because of poor governance, cowboy bankers and gangster developers.

And yet you just took a swipe at me for having emigrated and not paying tax? "some of us are still in the country contributing taxes "

I'd like you to explain how I have attributed any blame to those who rented property? This is utter lies.

Lies you say?

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are people not sick of hearing the same auld "it's not my fault the country is in the state that its in, I only rented and took on no debt so why should I pay"...play another record because that one is beginning to jump.

And I hope in 3-5 years time there will be an opportunity for those who have emigrated and who want to to come home.

Will you have all paid off the debt I had no part in creating by then?

It's quite sad that people have turned against each other based on whether they owned a house or not.

They are not. The anger of those who stayed out of it is directed at those who own property and then claim they are 'the poor' or that it wasn't their fault that the market crashed after they aid super inflated prices on borrowed money, or whine that they want 'their' bailout.

Just to note that I didn't get a bailout for my substantial investment losses in the dotcom age, but people want protection from property losses.

Maybe it was the plan of the banks and government to turn us against each other.

CT Forum >>>>>>>>>

Begrudgary just doesn't sit with me. I'm all for people being successful.

I'm not begrudging anyone. The consequences of many people's poor financial decisions has pushed me halfway round the world though. You do appreciate I might have an opinion on people now wanting to escape taxes as they made previously poor decisions and how that doesn't sit that well with me.

Bullseye1

How is my bolded quote attributing blame for our problems on those who rented? It is commentary on people who continuously blame those who have bought for the problem by those who did not buy. Maybe you should read it again.

Glad you have absolved yourself of any blame and proved my commentary correct.

Your the one taking swipes at people who you don't know and assume have not been out demonstrating. Your full of assumptions. Quite frankly it's pointless discussing anything with you because of the massive chip on your shoulder. Adios.

Bruthal

MadsL wrote: »

Just to note that I didn't get a bailout for my substantial investment losses in the dotcom age

You do appreciate I might have an opinion on people now wanting to escape taxes as they made previously poor decisions and how that doesn't sit that well with me.

Yea

MadsL

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How is my bolded quote attributing blame for our problems on those who rented? It is commentary on people who continuously blame those who have bought for the problem by those who did not buy. Maybe you should read it again.

Perhaps you can explain to me how those who did not buy are at fault? If you are complaining that those attribute the fault to those whose bought, then they must also be at fault, please explain how they contributed.

Your the one taking swipes at people who you don't know and assume have not been out demonstrating. Your full of assumptions. Quite frankly it's pointless discussing anything with you because of the massive chip on your shoulder. Adios.

I know how many were out demonstrating, because I was there and it was a very very small number. Which demonstration did you attend?

As to chips on shoulders, here is a further attack on the emigrants you claim to have sympathy for. I guess you don't feel emigrants should have any opinions.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Don't worry you guys are next with a residential tax. You guys need to pay for the library and public lighting too. Oh wait your not even living here. Must be great preaching the need to get our country out of a hole while not contributing to the task.

Bullseye1

Let me put his in very simple English for you because you have a tendency of either a misinterpret or are deliberating being disingenuous.

1. I do not attribute any of the blame on the property bubble on renters.
2. My commentary is on those who continually lay the blame on those who bought properties for their ills. "I didn't buy, I am not responsible for the mess we are in, I didn't gamble...etc". The debt we have us two fold. (A) The banking debt which was placed on the shoulders of the electorate by Brian Lenahin NAND Brian Cowen when they gave the bank garauntee and privatised the banks. (B) the money which has had to be borrowed by government for the day to day running of the public sector, the deficit.

Neither of these two debts are the fault of the tax payer. Those of us who bought properties are not responsible for your lose of job or your need to emigrate.

3. I neither resent or begrudge anyone who has emigrated.
4. I make no apologies for my contributing to getting us out of the hole we are in. You can take that you however you like.
5. Not everyone who has emigrated has a chip on their shoulder. I emigrated in the late 90's and enjoyed my experience. I hear and read of people who are happy with their decision. Sure they may miss home but there is opportunity of a better life at this moment in time.

It's understandable that your angry, anger can be a positive. Just lose the chip.

I demonstrated in my local town and I continue to engage with local politicians.

MadsL wrote: »

Perhaps you can explain to me how those who did not buy are at fault? If you are complaining that those attribute the fault to those whose bought, then they must also be at fault, please explain how they contributed.



I know how many were out demonstrating, because I was there and it was a very very small number. Which demonstration did you attend?

As to chips on shoulders, here is a further attack on the emigrants you claim to have sympathy for. I guess you don't feel emigrants should have any opinions.

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, I wanted a place that me and my wife, and maybe any kids that we might have, could call our own.

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

Right, MadsL, I want you to think very carefully, before you answer my next question. Look at your above statement, and tell me, if the home/property is not my "own" until that glorious day, explain to me, why, for the purpose of this tax, am I the one that has to pay, instead of the bill shared with the entity who owns the largest share

MadsL

darkhorse wrote: »

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

Right, MadsL, I want you to think very carefully, before you answer my next question. Look at your above statement, and tell me, if the home/property is not my "own" until that glorious day, explain to me, why, for the purpose of this tax, am I the one that has to pay, instead of the bill shared with the entity who owns the largest share

I don't need to think carefully, property taxes tax the amenity of the property. The bank has no amenity of the property unless you want to sublet it to them for the annual BBQ. You do 'own' the property legally, except that you have given that over in security to the bank in exchange for the mortgage cash to pay the previous owner.

Not really hard to figure out.

darkhorse

lazygal wrote: »

I'm a homeowner in Ireland and I'm in favour of this tax. It should have been introduced years ago.

And even though I'm in negative equity, I'd love an increase in repossessions. It'll further deflate the property market meaning me and my husband will be able to afford to buy another property that's larger and rent our current home. And pay tax on both, of course.

A true patriot.

MadsL

darkhorse wrote: »

A true patriot.

When did Ireland become the Glorious Socialist People's Republic of Irelandski?

You may not like the sentiment, but I believe Ireland still permits capitalism, without people being called a traitor to the Socialist Revolution.

darkhorse

username123 wrote: »

With that Im leaving this thread.

Why should you leave the thread. You're a much better contributor than a lot of them on here.

Kichote

MadsL wrote: »

When did Ireland become the Glorious Socialist People's Republic of Irelandski?

You may not like the sentiment, but I believe Ireland still permits capitalism, without people being called a traitor to the Socialist Revolution.

Says the lad wanting more tax and more regulation on where people are allowed to live and build houses

MadsL

Kichote wrote: »

Says the lad wanting more tax and more regulation on where people are allowed to live and build houses

Show me a capitalist state without planning and taxes. Off you go find one.

Kichote

MadsL wrote: »

Show me a capitalist state without planning and taxes. Off you go find one.

Dafuq? What has that to do with anything and dont mind trying to act the condescending bossy boot with me.

darkhorse

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Only problem then is....who to vote for.

DDI

darkhorse

MadsL wrote: »

darkhorse wrote: »

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

I don't need to think carefully, property taxes tax the amenity of the property. The bank has no amenity of the property unless you want to sublet it to them for the annual BBQ. You do 'own' the property legally, except that you have given that over in security to the bank in exchange for the mortgage cash to pay the previous owner.

Not really hard to figure out.

OK, I usually am an easy going guy, but my patience just ran out with you. You should read your post before you submit your reply. In one post you say that I do not own my property/home, and in another post you say that I do own it. It can only be one or the other. One more question. Can you actually differentiate between ordinary text and bold. Would it be more easily understood if I colour coded my posts for you.

MadsL

Kichote wrote: »

Dafuq? What has that to do with anything and dont mind trying to act the condescending bossy boot with me.

Basic economics. Well done on pretending you don't know what capitalism and socialism mean.

Now, which country did you have in mind that has no taxes or planning regulation?

MadsL

darkhorse wrote: »

OK, I usually am an easy going guy, but my patience just ran out with you. You should read your post before you submit your reply. In one post you say that I do not own my property/home, and in another post you say that I do own it. It can only be one or the other. One more question. Can you actually differentiate between ordinary text and bold. Would it be more easily understood if I colour coded my posts for you.

It would be easier if you could just understand the relationship between you and your bank in relation to your house and the nature of the tax. If you think you something is fully yours before you discharge any charge on it, then the nature of a mortgage escapes you.

Now the tax is an amenity tax, like motor tax, and has nothing to do with the legal ownership - except that usually follows that the owner (the person getting the amenity from the item taxed) is the person liable. If you read the regulations you will see that a person living in a house rent-free where they do not identify anyone else as the liable person is also liable for the tax.

That clear enough?

Bruthal

MadsL wrote: »

Now the tax is an amenity tax, like motor tax

The motor tax link again, its like the godwins law of property tax threads.

They simply want more money off people, and property is an easy target. This amenity tax idea is simply another idea of whats being taxed. Different posters have had different ideas on the other thread. In reality, our great leaders couldnt care less. They simply want more money.

If you read the regulations you will see that a person living in a house rent-free where they do not identify anyone else as the liable person is also liable for the tax.

There ends your amenity tax idea. The renter is not really liable.

They have simply been told the money will forcibly be taken off them if they dont name who is liable. The revenue can word it how they like. Renters, who are benefiting from the "amenity", are not liable. The property owner is.

MadsL

Bruthal wrote: »

There ends your amenity tax idea. The renter is not really liable.

Ah, very clever. i guess you have me there...

Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

Banjo String

I see this new campaign has started, with the people involved promising to absolve homeowners from any lability to revenue.

Personally, I'm very wary of such groups myself, but if it results in a mass movement of people uniting against the govt, it can't do much harm tbh.

Thought I'd share regardless.

Billy Hynes and a team of lay litigants have devised a challenge to the revenue/gov. on the property tax Called “attack the tax”. Billy will be skyping into the next Forum4Change meet up on the 18th to explain more and answer questions. Billy has worked with many people over the years and has successfully helped many people in the high court challenging their mortgages etc. Billy and his team are taking a class action against the government/revenue on the legality/lawfulness and constitutionality of the revenue attack on our people. They ARE ROLLING THIS OUT all over the country and they want us to organise it up here in Donegal, Philip Mc Fadden and Joe Murphy are going to put it out to all the anti austerity groups. Attack the Tax is going to suit those who don’t get the “return to sender” solution and the concept of not contracting, simple though it seems, not everyone has the strength to realise their sovereignty nor do they have the time or are in the position to practise the conduct and behaviour that is required in order to avoid not contracting with corporations on the phone and on the doorstep etc..

So people can become a part of this class action by simply signing up for it…. it will suit the masses and also and more importantly it will bring all the groups in Ireland together. Ben Gilroy is on board and is going to mention “attack the tax” on the Vincent Browne show next Tues night 19th March. Any action that will/can halt the psychopaths in this Government who masquerade as representatives of the people and who are clearly intent on stripping the wealth (that is if there is any left) from the people has to be worth getting on board IMHO.

Basically a class action in the republic cannot happen with a group of people unless they are a company......so if you want on board you simply pay €2 to become a shareholder, the legal/lawful challenge action will be lodged in the high court very soon.....and while all this is going on......the revenue cant touch those who part of the action/legal challenge.....this could go on for years.....and a there is a good chance of winning as well......this is going to be a big spanner in the works for the revenue.......if more than 50% of people get on this then the Gov/revenue will have no mandate.....we need to spread this to as many people as possible......we could get outside Post Offices for instance.....most people will gladly pay 2 euro to be a part of any challenge.........Billy and his group legally challenged the household charge and they have a case still pending on this......this may be the reason the gov. kind of let the household charge go and are forcing in the property tax instead and also why they are going to try to get the revenue to snatch wages etc from those who do not pay.....they are panicking now and they sound desperate to get people, using the revenue as the big stick. They realise people wont register and wont pay or wont comply.... so they are resorting to threatening and bullying....but we all know what happens to bullies eventually.

Check out the links below and send to all on your contact lists ……time is of the essence here…its up to us. spread these links far and wide. If you know anyone who has received letters from the revenue tell them to hold on for a few weeks, special “return to sender” labels are being constructed as we speak, once ready then all mail has to returned to the revenue with the sticker attached. Kim http://www.attackthetax.com/

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpUTlEdnMwQXNDRUU/edit?usp=sharing this is a video https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpclJMMjFtTTBNN2c/edit? usp=sharing this is poster https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpaWhYZVJqb05QRlk/edit? usp=sharing

Banjo String

MadsL wrote: »

Ah, very clever. i guess you have me there...

Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

Not true at all.

(you might want to check up on hire purchase terms and conditions on a vehicle)

Le_Dieux

MadsL wrote: »

Really? Because it comes across that you are pointing the finger at those who had some sense not to get involved in the property madness as somehow to blame. Care to explain?


I see, back to resenting those who emigrate. You think that most of them emigrated by choice? Be thankful you have a job, how much tax do you think I would have paid on the dole?



What was the cause of the recession if not the property bubble and subsequent crash? If not the only cause the property bubble deepened it massively. Neither my wife nor I worked in anything construction or property related. Would you say that the frenzy to buy overvalued property and crash didn't contribute to us being unemployed?

When did you buy, out of interest?

For me, it's the height of hypocrosy for someone in ANY other country trying to lecture us living in Ireland what we should and should not do, or have done in the past.

NO MATTER what the circumstances, they are NOT in a position to lecture us. Here in Newbridge, we have roads littered with potholes. What do the council do? Sure come along and throw loose tar over the hole ( remember we have a parade tomorrow, and everything needs to be as clean as possible and functioning), then walk away. Now the tar is a MOUND, causing bumps. For me personally, I got my new driving license this week, and learnt that I will have to renew my truck and van license in 5 years, as someone decided to seperate the car (which is still valid for 10 years ) from the van license, thus causing more financial outlay. I had to GIVE UP my business because the govt(?) decided the company I pulled for needed to also make a PRSI payment every month. This past week, there was a new Pope elected. What do RTE do? Send ( at least 3) presenters over to stay in Rome for the white smoke ( sure they could have all headed up to Roscommon for that...but thats another days work:-)) I heard 3 different presenters there on RTE during the week ( Fergal Keane, Seán O'Rourke & Joe Little). WHY 3???? Sure the stupid taxpayer is paying for this:-(((

Why am I saying all these things? I am just highlighting things that only someone living here can comprehend. The wastage, the free-riding, the abuse of public trust, the utter waste of public funds ( IE taxes) the 'fúck them' attitude by Kildare Street. You have NO idea whats going on here, and therefore think it's wrong for You to be lecturing US living here.

Unless, of course, You do live here, just pretending You don't.

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

DDI

Do you think your man is going to win in East Meath?

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/author/ben/

bgrizzley

jaysus , i wish he would just for some fresh blood, the gene pool is seriously stagnated...

Kichote

MadsL wrote: »

Basic economics. Well done on pretending you don't know what capitalism and socialism mean.

Now, which country did you have in mind that has no taxes or planning regulation?

Find it yourself if you are so interested. I am not your dog who is here to 'go fetch' while you sit in your armchair.

You do have some neck to be accusing people of thinking we're in commie land just because they dont agree with someone's buy to let wheeler dealer fantasy.

Annasopra

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Do you think your man is going to win in East Meath?

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/author/ben/

Hopefully not. He supports Sean Quinn and has links to UKIP and the Christian Solidarity Party

http://redheadplace.blogspot.ie/2013/03/ben-gilroy-and-far-right.html?showComment=1363224102433

Banjo String

bgrizzley wrote: »

jaysus , i wish he would just for some fresh blood, the gene pool is seriously stagnated...

I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.

barneystinson

SamHall wrote: »

I see this new campaign has started, with the people involved promising to absolve homeowners from any lability to revenue.

Personally, I'm very wary of such groups myself, but if it results in a mass movement of people uniting against the govt, it can't do much harm tbh.

Thought I'd share regardless.

I hope these people are also going to indemnify their punters for the interest and penalties they'll incur in the event that their action fails, which it will...

Le_Dieux

SamHall wrote: »

I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.

Under Vincent Browne's stewardship!!!

squod

mango salsa wrote: »

Hopefully not. He supports Sean Quinn and has links to UKIP and the Christian Solidarity Party

http://redheadplace.blogspot.ie/2013/03/ben-gilroy-and-far-right.html?showComment=1363224102433

Who cares? It's you who'll vote on issues in a directly democratic system not him. Either you want direct democracy or you don't.

Banjo String

squod wrote: »

Who cares? It's you who'll vote on issues in a directly democratic system not him. Either you want direct democracy or you don't.

That 'source' provided would in no way be biassed either I'd assume.

MadsL

the concept of not contracting, simple though it seems, not everyone has the strength to realise their sovereignty

Freeman mumbo jumbo. Debunked over and over.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

For me, it's the height of hypocrosy for someone in ANY other country trying to lecture us living in Ireland what we should and should not do, or have done in the past.

Thousands of expats will love you for that, but then you lose your right to vote even leaving for your holiday. Astonishingly the Irish people accept it.

NO MATTER what the circumstances, they are NOT in a position to lecture us.

I'm sure you will feel the same when you too emigrate. :rolleyes:

Here in Newbridge, we have roads littered with potholes. What do the council do? Sure come along and throw loose tar over the hole ( remember we have a parade tomorrow, and everything needs to be as clean as possible and functioning), then walk away. Now the tar is a MOUND, causing bumps.

What have you done about it?

For me personally, I got my new driving license this week, and learnt that I will have to renew my truck and van license in 5 years, as someone decided to seperate the car (which is still valid for 10 years ) from the van license, thus causing more financial outlay.

Post up a copy of the email you wrote to the Minister about it.

I had to GIVE UP my business because the govt(?) decided the company I pulled for needed to also make a PRSI payment every month.

You mean you were operating under the incorrect tax basis?

This past week, there was a new Pope elected. What do RTE do? Send ( at least 3) presenters over to stay in Rome for the white smoke ( sure they could have all headed up to Roscommon for that...but thats another days work:-))

I heard 3 different presenters there on RTE during the week ( Fergal Keane, Seán O'Rourke & Joe Little). WHY 3???? Sure the stupid taxpayer is paying for this:-(((

Did you complain to RTE? Post up the email you sent.

Why am I saying all these things? I am just highlighting things that only someone living here can comprehend. The wastage, the free-riding, the abuse of public trust, the utter waste of public funds ( IE taxes) the 'fúck them' attitude by Kildare Street. You have NO idea whats going on here, and therefore think it's wrong for You to be lecturing US living here.

On the contrary, I am very aware of such things, and even from here have been pointing out such things as DCC's waste of money, and more importantly actually DOING something about it rather than objecting to someone's location on an internet forum. Here is an example of ACTION rather than the usual passivity when it comes to small yet wasteful issues in Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056878726

Unless, of course, You do live here, just pretending You don't.

Why on earth would I do that? Try not to let your hatred for those of us forced to emigrate blind make you paranoid.

SamHall wrote: »

Not true at all.

(you might want to check up on hire purchase terms and conditions on a vehicle)

A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
You just proved my point.
You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

bgrizzley

SamHall wrote: »

I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.

i hear FG have chosen the theme for the party political broadcast...

MadsL

Kichote wrote: »

Find it yourself if you are so interested. I am not your dog who is here to 'go fetch' while you sit in your armchair.

You do have some neck to be accusing people of thinking we're in commie land just because they dont agree with someone's buy to let wheeler dealer fantasy.

I may not agree with their motives, but the last time I checked it was still legal to try and make a profit in Ireland, you might consider that next time you are having a go at someone.

Kichote

MadsL wrote: »

A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
You just proved my point.
You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

You pay someone else who passes the cost of the tax on to you. In a few years we might see a 'Tax de renting a home a la francaise' just in case you were lucky and found a landlord who didnt increase his rent to compensate for property tax. We do like to copy Europe after all.

bgrizzley

barneystinson wrote: »

I hope these people are also going to indemnify their punters for the interest and penalties they'll incur in the event that their action fails, which it will...

i think the people of Ireland would qualify for free legal aid after FG for the last couple of years....

MadsL

Kichote wrote: »

You pay someone else who passes the cost of the tax on to you.

So you are not disputing who is liable for the tax. Thank you. Case closed.

Le_Dieux

MadsL wrote: »

Freeman mumbo jumbo. Debunked over and over.





Thousands of expats will love you for that, but then you lose your right to vote even leaving for your holiday. Astonishingly the Irish people accept it.


I'm sure you will feel the same when you too emigrate. :rolleyes:



What have you done about it?



Post up a copy of the email you wrote to the Minister about it.


You mean you were operating under the incorrect tax basis?



Did you complain to RTE? Post up the email you sent.



On the contrary, I am very aware of such things, and even from here have been pointing out such things as DCC's waste of money, and more importantly actually DOING something about it rather than objecting to someone's location on an internet forum. Here is an example of ACTION rather than the usual passivity when it comes to small yet wasteful issues in Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056878726


Why on earth would I do that? Try not to let your hatred for those of us forced to emigrate blind make you paranoid.



A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
You just proved my point.
You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

What a shítstirrer. You MUST be dvpower under a new guise..you must.

FYI, I haven't had a holiday in 4 years trying to stay afloat. About the tax/prsi, I paid my taxes but worked for myself...nah WTF should I explain to someone who doesn't live in IRELAND??

I am probably going to get banned by the Mods over this, but what the hell..Mods, PLEASE do me a favour then, and check this jokers ISPN, and see if it's in any way related to dvpower's.

Banjo String

@Madsl

You originally said:

Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

With a HP agreement on a cat etc, the details/legal bit will 99.9% of the time say something along the lines of ' Under a hire purchase agreement, the consumer does not actually own the goods until the last installment is paid, although he or she has full use of the goods throughout the repayment period.'

You go on then to say:

A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different. You just proved my point. You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

Yet, in black and white, it states clear as crystal that : the consumer does not actually own the goods until the last installment is paid

You're a tad confused this morning.

MadsL

Le_Dieux wrote: »

What a ****stirrer. You MUST be dvpower under a new guise..you must.

FYI, I haven't had a holiday in 4 years trying to stay afloat. About the tax/prsi, I paid my taxes but worked for myself...nah WTF should I explain to someone who doesn't live in IRELAND??

As I suspected, even though you live there (some weird right to have an opinion based on your address in your view) and have listed a whole bunch of grievances - you actually haven't even sent one email to try and change things have you?? And yet you expect change.

I am probably going to get banned by the Mods over this, but what the hell..Mods, PLEASE do me a favour then, and check this jokers, and see if it's in any way related to dvpower's.

Have some sense, I regged in 2003 ffs.

MadsL

SamHall wrote: »

You're a tad confused this morning.

When was the last time you were asked to pay motor tax when renting a car?

dr.bollocko

Ledieux banned.

As per last warning, civil discussion please. As this thread has previously been locked I would suspect a similar fate awaits this thread.

Banjo String

MadsL wrote: »

When was the last time you were asked to pay motor tax when renting a car?

Never, but that's not what in dispute here.

You've said.

Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

Let's compare that analogy to a HP agreement on a car so.

Except the landlord finance company leases his amenity value (vehicle) in exchange for a thing called rent HP installments, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.


The owner is still the finance company, until the final payment made.

Its no big deal, just pointing out that your theory was far from flawed.

Kichote

MadsL wrote: »

So you are not disputing who is liable for the tax. Thank you. Case closed.

In some places you do pay property tax through the mortgage so the bank looks after the payment for you. Great bunch of lads that they are.

Any comparison with motor tax is null and void because it is not an ownership tax but something you pay to use your car on the public road.

MadsL

You have mixed up a car lease with car rental.

Car lease = mortgage - you pay the tax
Car rental = renting a house - owner pays the tax.

MadsL

Kichote wrote: »

In some places you do pay property tax through the mortgage so the bank looks after the payment for you. Great bunch of lads that they are.

Any comparison with motor tax is null and void because it is not an ownership tax but something you pay to use your car on the public road.

Where?

I never said the property tax was an ownership tax. Read my posts properly, I said it was an amenity tax, in the case of Motor tax driving on the public roads is the amenity.

Banjo String

MadsL wrote: »

You have mixed up a car lease with car rental.

Car lease = mortgage - you pay the tax
Car rental = renting a house - owner pays the tax.

Completely flawed argument.

You do not own a car taken out on HP until the final instalment has been paid.

Regardless, you can legally own a car without taxing it.


Silly, silly argument/comparison.

.

MadsL

SamHall wrote: »

Completely flawed argument.

You do not own a car taken out on HP until the final instalment has been paid.

Regardless, you can legally own a car without taxing it.


Silly, silly argument/comparison.

.

You do not discharge the charge placed on your house until the final mortgage payment has been paid.

Banjo String

MadsL wrote: »

You do not discharge the charge placed on your house until the final mortgage payment has been paid.

That was never disputed.

You brought the car ownership/rental argument to the table, not me.

Sometimes its best to admit a particular example given to win an argument/debate was wrong.

Your car/home ownership/rental analogy is that example.

MadsL

SamHall wrote: »

That was never disputed.

You brought the car ownership/rental argument to the table, not me.

Sometimes its best to admit a particular example given to win an argument/debate was wrong.

Your car/home ownership/rental analogy is that example.

You are confused. The analogy is quite clear. Let's not clog up the thread with back and forth though.