revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Sergeant

seamus wrote: »

You'll be waiting. There is nobody at the moment who will scrap the property tax if they get elected. They'll see the financial figures and quietly just leave the property tax there.

Unless those Magical Money trees that Michael Noonan planted in his back garden start to shed their rich bounty.

Banjo String

Anyone wrote: »

How does that work if they take the money at source?

How long of a process will that take them?

Possibly hundreds of thousands of homeowners will need to be identified, then bank accounts etc need to be associated with them?

We're not talking weeks I'd assume, prob a matter of years. (i could be wrong though)

I'll take my chances though.

Shane732

SamHall wrote: »

How long of a process will that take them?

Possibly hundreds of thousands of homeowners will need to be identified, then bank accounts etc need to be associated with them?

We're not talking weeks I'd assume, prob a matter of years. (i could be wrong though)

I'll take my chances though.

It'll be coded on to your tax credit certificate and that'll be it.

Anyone

SamHall wrote: »

How long of a process will that take them?

Possibly hundreds of thousands of homeowners will need to be identified, then bank accounts etc need to be associated with them?

We're not talking weeks I'd assume, prob a matter of years. (i could be wrong though)

I'll take my chances though.

You are most definately wrong. The Revenue have details of your pps number, where you work, how much you earn. They can easily put a charge on your wages. If you are on the dole, then then can reduce that. If you are self employed it will go on your tax bill.

Ghost Buster

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Revenue issuing tax demands? How dare they!

Revenue inventing things to tax us walking ATM's on more like.

heyjude

A better question, than the one about what the revenue might do to force payment of this years' property tax, is what are the government going to do the enforce payment of last years property tax(household charge), which approx 600,000 households still have to pay and which is now almost a year overdue ? At the time, at various stages, they threatened jail, fines, charges on your property, deductions from your wages, pensions, social welfare payments etc and yet 11 months later, what has been done. I can't help feeling that those who paid will turn out to be mugs and that many of those who didn't pay last year, never will, and will face no consequences.

SamHall wrote: »

I foresee FF (who, I'm by no means a fan of btw, but the most popular political party atm) scrapping this if they get into power again.

Let's face it, they'd do anything to be back in the driving seat again. They've already 'opposed' it, which probably helped to propel them in the opinion polls.

Yep the irony of Fianna Fail opposing the property tax, which they committed the country to introducing, in their negotiations with the troika over the bailout. So it was their tax and yet now they oppose its introduction. And you wonder why people are cynical about politics in this country ? The worst thing is though, that the voters won't remember that the property tax was a Fianna Fail idea in the first place and that they agreed to its introduction when they were in power.

ilovesleep

This scares me.

One of our problems here in Ireland is a deficit. This happened because when the recession hit, credit dried up, many companies and establishments went to the wall, leading to unempolyment. This led to the tax base falling and a strain on governments expeniture.

If you look to the ukhe, our nearest neighbour, where it appears they've done many thing right with lower wages to encourage employment, higher taxes, higher social contributions, lower social welfare spending per head, lower public sector pay, a broadened tax base - well the uk have similar problems with a deficit and hight unemployment.

Spain has similar problems. Portugal and Italy too. I read about france. I dont know about their situation but money is dry there too and they are pretty fcuked.

This is a european problem and correcting the deficit problems are thrown onto the backs of individual countries who are in trouble and struggling. We'll all be chasing our tails in circles.

But also if you look to the USA, they too have similiar problems.

In my opinion, the past five years (we're in this five years now so far) is the start of a worldwide depression. A property tax in Ireland isn't going to fix this. Nor will the ridculous social welfare proposals happening in the uk fix it.

Banjo String

Anyone wrote: »

You are most definately wrong. The Revenue have details of your pps number, where you work, how much you earn. They can easily put a charge on your wages. If you are on the dole, then then can reduce that. If you are self employed it will go on your tax bill.

Simple as for me.

Forcibly take it, I'll resort to a lot of 'black market' jobs, the business I'm in involves a lot of cash transactions as payment.

It will be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

seamus

heyjude wrote: »

what are the government going to do the enforce payment of last years property tax(household charge), which approx 600,000 households still have to pay and which is now almost a year overdue ?

The figure stands at around 470,000 now, many of whom are being quietly brought to court, but the HHC was designed with this in mind, so the charge will remain on all of these properties until they are sold.

Simple as for me.

Forcibly take it, I'll resort to a lot of 'black market' jobs, the business I'm in involves a lot of cash transactions as payment.

It will be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

That's not the moral high road. You'd be no better than someone claiming disability benefit when they're fully able, i.e. just another leech.

ilovesleep

Maudi wrote: »

times coming...even if some of the 450.000 unemployed storm the dail and oust these cnuts then demand that we have a gov from brussells run us temporarily at top salary of 45.000 thou ..gets rid of the leeches in gov.that we dont need who are killing the country ..

That would be so good. I've said it here for a few years on boards,that the hardest part of all this austerity path is seeing our government run amok when they should be leading by example. Just there a few weeks ago someone (alan dukes??? maybe) was given a yearly salary of 400,000 euro for winding down anglo.

At a time of fcuking austerity for the nation and those below them. Where we see people with disabilities and illnesses getting hammered either in social welfare payments or the cutting of services, there is enough money left over for such a pay packet. Enda will be drinking my fcuking p1ss in time. I really wish the black and tans would make a come back for kildare street.

mccarthy37

heyjude wrote: »

A better question, than the one about what the revenue might do to force payment of this years' property tax, is what are the government going to do the enforce payment of last years property tax(household charge), which approx 600,000 households still have to pay and which is now almost a year overdue ? At the time, at various stages, they threatened jail, fines, charges on your property, deductions from your wages, pensions, social welfare payments etc and yet 11 months later, what has been done. I can't help feeling that those who paid will turn out to be mugs and that many of those who didn't pay last year, never will, and will face no consequences.



Yep the irony of Fianna Fail opposing the property tax, which they committed the country to introducing, in their negotiations with the troika over the bailout. So it was their tax and yet now they oppose its introduction. And you wonder why people are cynical about politics in this country ? The worst thing is though, that the voters won't remember that the property tax was a Fianna Fail idea in the first place and that they agreed to its introduction when they were in power.

Remember also Enda Kenny said it was a grossly unfair tax. The real irony is that the Labour traitor's are part of this present administration.

De Hipster

I'm amazed at some of the attitudes in this thread - why not hand your take-home salary to revenue & queue for the scraps they deem fit for you to live on?!

Ireland does NOT make up 45% of the EU, nor did we create 45% of the deficit Europe-wide debt crisis - as far as I'm concerned the German (and other non-Irish) banks should shag off elsewhere & look for the next town of morons to pay their accrued gambling debts.

...I'm off to Paddy Power to argue my money back on that horse that was still running from last week's 15.30 @ Doncaster!

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

The figure stands at around 470,000 now, many of whom are being quietly brought to court, but the HHC was designed with this in mind, so the charge will remain on all of these properties until they are sold.
That's not the moral high road. You'd be no better than someone claiming disability benefit when they're fully able, i.e. just another leech.

I'm not getting into a slanging match with you Seamus.

Leeches are the cretins in govt, hundreds of thousands of euro salaries, topped up by vast expenses on top if you don't mind, (some of which are tax defaulters/evaders themselves).

I'll pay the property tax with no resistance and no fuss if they refund the stamp duty I paid in 2007. That alone would is equal to approx fifty years of what (I think) my property tax will be.

Can I ask you Seamus, what tax will be a tax too far for you as an individual, or will you pay every tax applicable to you, regardless whether you can afford to pay it or not? (because its law)

Anyone

SamHall wrote: »

Simple as for me.

Forcibly take it, I'll resort to a lot of 'black market' jobs, the business I'm in involves a lot of cash transactions as payment.

It will be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

But you will pay the tax, so saying "I'll hold off" etc is just going to cost you more. Best thing to do is pay it when it arrives.

If you are avoiding tax elsewhere well thats your choice, but this one appears to unavoidable.

Banjo String

Anyone wrote: »

But you will pay the tax, so saying "I'll hold off" etc is just going to cost you more. Best thing to do is pay it when it arrives.

If you are avoiding tax elsewhere well thats your choice, but this one appears to unavoidable.

No, I'm fully tax compliant (right down to TV license) but this is a tax too far IMO.

Paying so much stamp duty in 07 is what sticks in my craw on this one though.

ilovesleep

Anyone wrote: »

But you will pay the tax, so saying "I'll hold off" etc is just going to cost you more. Best thing to do is pay it when it arrives.

If you are avoiding tax elsewhere well thats your choice, but this one appears to unavoidable.

Paying it meekily will just allow the circus in government to continue.

Anyone

SamHall wrote: »

No, I'm fully tax compliant (right down to TV license) but this is a tax too far IMO.

Paying so much stamp duty in 07 is what sticks in my craw on this one though.

Ok, but I was just pointing out that holding off and not paying will just cost you more when they take the tax.

lost marbles

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You can look for a loophole here.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/10812/b10812d.pdf[/QUOTE]
well speaking as an ordinary joe the only thing that i can see as any kind of loophole that might cause a court case is the €90 min fee that councils will have to pay as landlords on their properties ,
why should the house owner in an ex council house living next door to said property have to pay more ,[if im right in that the next payment up the scale is €225 ]

ilovesleep

I think we need biggins here to come on and remind us of the ways the government rewarded themselves and their mates since they became elected in 2011.

seamus

SamHall wrote: »

Can I ask you Seamus, what tax will be a tax too far for you as an individual, or will you pay every tax applicable to you, regardless whether you can afford to pay it or not?

Yeah, pretty much.

If I believe a tax is unjust or unfair, then I will harass my TDs and vote for the guys who will remove the tax, but I will still pay it.

If I believe the tax is illegal or unconstitutional, I will legally challenge it.

There is no moral justification for opposing a legal tax by not paying it. The law is democratic, therefore you change it by consensus, not by disobedience.

Irishstabber

seamus wrote: »

They actually work very quickly when they owe you money. Last two tax returns we were due a refund and I had the cheque in my hand in less than two weeks.

Still waiting on mine quite a while now.... It's not even that much.

Irishstabber

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much.

If I believe a tax is unjust or unfair, then I will harass my TDs and vote for the guys who will remove the tax, but I will still pay it.

If I believe the tax is illegal or unconstitutional, I will legally challenge it.

There is no moral justification for opposing a legal tax by not paying it. The law is democratic, therefore you change it by consensus, not by disobedience.

Poster boy for the establishment!

chakotha

“If a person gets a letter and they are not the owners, they should contact Revenue immediately to tell us who the owner is so that we can correct the register. If they don’t, we will continue to connect them to that property.”

That's not right.

It doesn't say to tell them that you are not the owner. You have to point to a third party ie. the real owner (maybe a domiciled landlord). Why should you have to do their work for them and possibly damage your relationship with your landlord?

Tordelback

Here's a thought. Pay the taxes levied by the constitutionally elected government of the state, or piss off to jail, or better yet emigrate to one of the vanishingly small number of states where they don't have an effective tax on property. Or next time, vote in a government that won't implement a property tax solely to satisfy our largely notional creditors. While you're at it, do find out where they intend to find the dosh to run the country, assuming they're going to tell our current lenders to go swivel.

It's Hobson's choice, but it's still yours.

hardCopy

Irishstabber wrote: »

Still waiting on mine quite a while now.... It's not even that much.

Certain types of repayments are automated, if you're claiming a refund on the right tax and there's nothing unusual about your case it can fly through the system and be paid very quickly. If it's for a less frequently refunded tax, an unusual circumstance or it's randomly selected for review then it'll sit in a queue for manual approval.

muppetkiller

I did my taxes on revenue.ie on Monday of this week. They sent an update on Tuesday for each of the past 6 years of what I was owed or what I owed them. They deposited the money into my account yesterday.
I couldn't believe how quick the whole process was. So don't know how people are waiting such a long time for their returns.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much.

If I believe a tax is unjust or unfair, then I will harass my TDs and vote for the guys who will remove the tax, but I will still pay it.

If I believe the tax is illegal or unconstitutional, I will legally challenge it.

There is no moral justification for opposing a legal tax by not paying it. The law is democratic, therefore you change it by consensus, not by disobedience.

The last guy who challenged something as 'unconstitutional' was told to sod off, as he had no authority to challenge the govt :rolleyes:

(they didn't say he was wrong mind)

So, laws aren't that democratic in this country.

Death and Taxes

SamHall wrote: »

Revenue have began to bare their teeth,and issue a threat to every eligible homeowner on the island that 'they'll get you'.



Let's hope there is anarchy on the streets!

I'll not be paying this, and if they forcibly take it from me, I'll have to resort to doing a lot of black market work to recoup it.

I own my house, I worked hard to provide it, payed all costs associated with building improvements to it, I have soley maintained it, and paid tens of thousands in stamp duty already on it.Boo hoo!

In short, revenue can go and shíte. :mad:

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.

Fair play to them, hopefully they will catch the few die hard tax evaders you dont pay.
Hope they use extra penalties on those caught doing "black economy" work as well.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There will soon be an opportunity for the people of East Meath to do something about this. One of the Trotskyite big noises in CAHWT is standing in the bye election. So if there is such a big opposition to the tax this will surely be reflected in the result.

How cynical of Fine Gael to chose Helen McEntee for their canidate in the upcoming by-election. Cynical because this is a deliberate move to use emotional sentiment felt for her father and to trade on his name. And ethically because here is a young lady, who must be still grieving for her father, emotionally vunerable, and at a time when more and more people are growing in anger at the Governments policies.

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

How cynical of Fine Gael to chose Helen McEntee for their canidate in the upcoming by-election. Cynical because this is a deliberate move to use emotional sentiment felt for her father and to trade on his name. And ethically because here is a young lady, who must be still grieving for her father, emotionally vunerable, and at a time when more and more people are growing in anger at the Governments policies.

Not as cynical as putting up hunger strikers on their deathbed for election.

frfintanstack

SamHall wrote: »

Revenue have began to bare their teeth,and issue a threat to every eligible homeowner on the island that 'they'll get you'.



Let's hope there is anarchy on the streets!

I'll not be paying this, and if they forcibly take it from me, I'll have to resort to doing a lot of black market work to recoup it.

I own my house, I worked hard to provide it, payed all costs associated with building improvements to it, I have soley maintained it, and paid tens of thousands in stamp duty already on it.

In short, revenue can go and shíte. :mad:

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.

Hopefully revenue take a good look at the tax and welfare payments of people who decide paying the house tax isnt for them.

Im sure the people who try and evade this tax are the same people who evade other taxes.

sort of like waving your hands in the air shouting "look at me, look at me" to revenue.

V_Moth

What is interesting is that the Govt have vehemently rejected any Financial Transaction Tax (thanks IBEC!) along with the UK. All other European govts stand to gain 3 to 5 billion each. If this had been implemented in 2009, we could have paid back the majority of the debts by now (4 years x say 5 billion).

I suppose it is much easier to go after 2 million house owners rather than a few dozen companies...

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not as cynical as putting up hunger strikers on their deathbed for election.

The 'hungerstrikers' were young men whom, only for the troubles in the north at the time, would almost certainly have never of seen the inside of a prison cell, never mind the hellish, and downright tortuous conditions of the H-blocks/Long Kesh gaol.


Getting political prisoners elected as MP's, in an (vain) attempt at forcing Thatcher to rethink her 'criminal' policy is hardly on the same level as what FG are doing with Ms McEntee, let's be honest here.

The hunger strikers did eventually lead to Republican (and loyalist for that matter) prisoners eventually getting 'political status' rather than common criminals btw.

What the 1981 hunger strikes have to do with the 2013 property tax is completely and utterly beyond me though.

Chips Lovell

Our patriot dead must be rolling in their graves.

Is that what Michael Collins beat Oliver Cromwell at the Battle of Clontarf for?

username123

Anyone wrote: »

You are most definately wrong. The Revenue have details of your pps number, where you work, how much you earn. They can easily put a charge on your wages. If you are on the dole, then then can reduce that. If you are self employed it will go on your tax bill.

Well good luck to them with me. I have no income, no social welfare, Im not self employed and I have no savings in a financial institution.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

The 'hungerstrikers' were young men whom, only for the troubles in the north at the time, would almost certainly have never of seen the inside of a prison cell, never mind the hellish, and downright tortuous conditions of the H-blocks/Long Kesh gaol.


Getting political prisoners elected as MP's, in an (vain) attempt at forcing Thatcher to rethink her 'criminal' policy is hardly on the same level as what FG are doing with Ms McEntee, let's be honest here.

The hunger strikers did eventually lead to Republican (and loyalist for that matter) prisoners eventually getting 'political status' rather than common criminals btw.

What the 1981 hunger strikes have to do with the 2013 property tax is completely and utterly beyond me though.

How was putting hunger strikers up for election in Cavan/Monaghan and Louth going to make Thatcher rethink?

Their party operates a property tax in the North but claims it doesn't exist while opposing it in the Republic. How about that for cynicism.

DoesNotCompute

SamHall wrote: »

Revenue have began to bare their teeth,and issue a threat to every eligible homeowner on the island that 'they'll get you'.



Let's hope there is anarchy on the streets!

I'll not be paying this, and if they forcibly take it from me, I'll have to resort to doing a lot of black market work to recoup it.

I own my house, I worked hard to provide it, payed all costs associated with building improvements to it, I have soley maintained it, and paid tens of thousands in stamp duty already on it.

In short, revenue can go and shíte. :mad:

I hope their are thousands beside me in the queue.

Fair warning. You know the consequences of avoiding / not paying this tax. Don't come back later moaning about it being deducted from your income.

Anyone

username123 wrote: »

Well good luck to them with me. I have no income, no social welfare, Im not self employed and I have no savings in a financial institution.

How is that possible? Unless you are still living at home and in college.

username123

Anyone wrote: »

How is that possible? Unless you are still living at home and in college.

No. Late 30s. Redundant since 2011. Living off savings (not in a financial institution). Only my name on the mortgage, owned it before I married, never notified revenue of marriage and as it was abroad, doesnt exist on any official documentation here.

Gronkastic

Let them send the letters out, I'm running low on bog roll, so I could do with some arsé wipe.

lazygal

username123 wrote: »

No. Late 30s. Redundant since 2011. Living off savings (not in a financial institution). Only my name on the mortgage, owned it before I married, never notified revenue of marriage and as it was abroad, doesnt exist on any official documentation here.

Where are your savings, under the mattress?

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Where are your savings, under the mattress?

Well they are almost used up now (been redundant almost 2 years). They were in a bank (and some emergency amount under the mattress) but we had to live off them - my husband was redundant for some of that time as well. My husband supports me now but he isnt connected with the property in any official sense. Social welfare know we are married, but as we are so often told as an excuse why child benefit cant be taxed for example, social welfare and revenue have no interconnecting systems - so for property tax purposes, theres simply nowhere to take the money from with me.

ebbsy

If Joesphine comes to my door I will open it, wearing only a trenchcoat.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How was putting hunger strikers up for election in Cavan/Monaghan and Louth going to make Thatcher rethink?

Their party operates a property tax in the North but claims it doesn't exist while opposing it in the Republic. How about that for cynicism.

The hunger strike party?

MadsL

Trying living elsewhere OP, oh wait, my property taxes were $2,500 last year.

So, how about quit yer whining.

CrazyRabbit

I'd suggest checking to see if you are entitled to any tax refunds. Many people don't realise that they can claim back some tax for many things.

I've claimed back over €1200 in taxes over the last 3 years. And it's all done online, with a very fast turnaround time.

So they may take a property tax from you, but you might be able to claim more back from them. Play them at their own game.

PAYE Registration link is below..not sure about self employed ( check ROS.ie)
http://www.revenue.ie/en/online/paye-anytime.html

mrsbyrne

SamHall wrote: »

How long of a process will that take them?

Possibly hundreds of thousands of homeowners will need to be identified, then bank accounts etc need to be associated with them?

We're not talking weeks I'd assume, prob a matter of years. (i could be wrong though)

I'll take my chances though.

The homeowners have already been identified. 1.6 million of us. The letter and the form to complete will be arriving to your door addressed personally to you sam hall, 123 dunmoving street ballygobackwards, in the next 4 weeks. If you do not respond to the letter in the given time, Revenue will proceed to put a charge against your house for the amount of the estimate they give you. they will simply access your wages or your company accounts or your DSP payments and take the money, plus a penalty.
There will be no appeals and no correspondence of any kind. There will be no negotiations entered into or discretion used.
Anyone who has ever dealt with revenue will tell you that this is how they operate.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

Well they are almost used up now (been redundant almost 2 years). They were in a bank (and some emergency amount under the mattress) but we had to live off them - my husband was redundant for some of that time as well. My husband supports me now but he isnt connected with the property in any official sense. Social welfare know we are married, but as we are so often told as an excuse why child benefit cant be taxed for example, social welfare and revenue have no interconnecting systems - so for property tax purposes, theres simply nowhere to take the money from with me.

Revenue know you are married if you have ever taken advantage of the married tax rate. I assume you have.

Annasopra

SamHall wrote: »

Where?

The bit about the Island.

username123

MadsL wrote: »

Revenue know you are married if you have ever taken advantage of the married tax rate. I assume you have.

No I havent.

Im interested to see how it plays out. Im willing to let them put a judgement against the property - itll never be sold in my lifetime anyway with the negative equity on it.