revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

relax carry on

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Back to this again. Plenty of peoe dodge taxes. Thats the way of the world and no taxman in the history of this planet has a 100% success rate.

Some people will pay it. Some people won't. Lots and lots of people don't care enough to be bothered. Sign the forms, let them take what you want.! Threatening people only works against the weak.

Thing is, this isn't like non declaration of income, over claiming expenses or playing around with VAT etc where a some work can be required to get to the truth. It's a whole different ballgame. Revenue were quoted expecting over a 90% compliance rate. If an estimate exists for your property and you ignore the return then the estimate will be pursued via the methods already outlined.
It's not fear to point out the consequences of your actions. It's more to make you aware that the consequences exist.
Taxes are a pain in the arse but unfortunately a necessary pain. If you wish to get this or any other tax overturned/changed then contact those who have made the law(s) and make your case to them.

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

You grow your own medicines?

I don't know how it works in your new home of Murika, but the Irish state forbids medicine production without a licence.

Banjo String

relax carry on wrote: »

Thing is, this isn't like non declaration of income, over claiming expenses or playing around with VAT etc where a some work can be required to get to the truth. It's a whole different ballgame. Revenue were quoted expecting over a 90% compliance rate. If an estimate exists for your property and you ignore the return then the estimate will be pursued via the methods already outlined.
It's not fear to point out the consequences of your actions. It's more to make you aware that the consequences exist.
Taxes are a pain in the arse but unfortunately a necessary pain. If you wish to get this or any other tax overturned/changed then contact those who have made the law(s) and make your case to them.

Lol, good luck with that one:D

Do you know how many of revenue's staff will be dealing with the appeals? Bearing in mind an estimated 1.9 million houses are liable for the tax.....

They have just two additional staff in their Dublin office to help them – an administrator and an assistant administrator.
If even 1pc of the country's 1.6 million households end up appealing their property tax bill to them, it will leave them with 16,000 cases to handle.
The Appeals Commissioners currently deal with around 300 to 400 cases per year and have a two-month waiting list.

full article here.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/property-tax-pay-up-if-you-want-to-appeal-29138391.html


Do you work for revenue btw?

Banjo String

MadsL wrote: »

You grow your own medicines,

Yes I do.

MadsL wrote: »

and are a trained firefighter?

Yes I am.

MadsL

SamHall wrote: »

Did you receive mortgage interest relief?

ah no, you were too shrewd to buy a property in Ireland, and didn't agree with 'paying other people's debt'.

Did you object to the subsidy on your mortgage when developers were paying your property taxes in the form of A development levy. I thought not.

SamHall wrote: »

I certainly don't owe that (personally)

Who does in your opinion? If the banks, did you get out of your warm house to protest on that bitterly cold night of the bank guarantee. You probably don't remember the weather, but I do. Wonder why that is?

Sad thing is, you posted that statement from a foreign land you excommunicated yourself to, leaving a daughter behind.

I played my part to try and stop the insanity, and I'm not Catholic.

SamHall wrote: »

America must be mind numbingly boring if you have to spend a large portion of your day pontificating on an internet forum, for others to pay up a tax that doesn't affect you in any way. (And by your logic, you wouldn't have paid either even if you were in the country)

I really take you seriously, I truly do.:pac:

classic 'basement dweller' attack. Poor effort.

I see you have now distanced yourself from attackthetax.com, are you also going to distance/recant post#250 calling for tax dodging and black economy transaction. Legitimate struggling contractors will love you for that.

MadsL

mikom wrote: »

I don't know how it works in your new home of Murika, but the Irish state forbids medicine production without a licence.

Exactly my point, he's hardly self-sufficient, rather reliant on a range of state-provided services. For which he refuses to pay tax and advocates black economy transactions to defraud the State.

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

Exactly my point, he's hardly self-sufficient, rather reliant on a range of state-provided services.

Hardly a point when the proles are hamstrung by legislation.
Reliant due to state pressure.
But shur he could just leave the county if he is not happy, I hear you say........

Geuze

Irishcrx wrote: »

* PRSI = at 4% lower than in practically every other country

* UNSC (Another gem) = not a new tax, replaced two existing levies

* House insurance = not a tax
* Life assurance = not a tax

* Car tax - since 2008, motor tax based on CO2, so has fallen for some people.

* Petrol costs (High as they are with tax) = our fuel duty is lower than Uk or NL

* ESB - yes, I agree, elec prices are too high.

* Gas - continued protests against Corrib gas and possible fracking - people don't seem to want to develop our own gas

* Internet - yes, too expensive

* School fee's
* TV Licence
* Water charges (Again a gem) - sensible to charge for water

Note that the overall level of tax in Irl is below average.

See Eurostat here:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/product_details/publication?p_product_code=KS-SF-12-055

Geuze

MadsL wrote: »

What alternatives do you have in mind to clear the €390,969 per person owed by the Irish state?

Note that the General Govt debt is 170 bn approx.

4.6 m people

So about 37,000 euro public debt each.

Your figures refer to all debts, including those linked to the IFSC, but those figures are not reflective of the real economy.

dxhound2005

Irishcrx wrote: »

No actually I haven't but I've been paying into the system for years. That's not the point though , there are people who need state assistance I understand that , differance is they have a human element and requirement not a greedy bunch high ranking government officials who are in holding hands sessions with the banks.

Bottom line - The common man is paying for greed , abuse of power and mis management of a corrupt banking system and government.

And still they abuse that power , state owned my arse I have friends under serious pressure unable to meet payment's , where is their help coming from? Who's actually running the banks? State owned....yeah sure...

The big list you put up on behalf of the middle class general homeowner must not be representative of your own personal situation. School fees would usually imply someone getting Child Benefit and mortage would usually attract mortgage interest relief. But your household never got either of these?

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The big list you put up on behalf of the middle class general homeowner must not be representative of your own personal situation. School fees would usually imply someone getting Child Benefit and mortage would usually attract mortgage interest relief. But your household never got either of these?

dx, do you really expect someone to pay into the system and get absolutely nothing back out of it except the pleasure of saying they are Irish? this isnt a fiefdom.

Le_Dieux

zerks wrote: »

New scaled down lists of exempt estates are out,some weird stuff in them.Many are complete & 100% occupied.
One in my town has just had over €30k spent on doing it up and is still exempt as it has 2 empty houses at the back of it out of the way.

It's as if the LA just found a list of estates which were built by developers that are now gone bust & never bothered to actually go out and check what kind of condition said estates are in,a minority should be exempt but the vast majority are complete and have full occupancy therefore can't be classed as ghost estates meanwhile others not on the list are in a worse state.

Heard on the radio this morning, that list is skimmed by NINETY% from the list exempt under the HHC charge last year.

I live in an estate that has 2 phases - one handed over to KCC & the other, a ghost estate ( GE ) in everything but recognition by this excuse for a government. Last year we had our AGM ( Residents Association) and had the mayor of our county there , who happens to be a FG'er, specifically to answer questions asd to why ph2 wasn't on the GE list. His retort, pay up this year and we'll have it reviewed next year ( 2013). Now? Still not on the list, yet our kip building site is surrounded by a fence which is flattened. That fence was 'stopping' people going onto a site which has concrete laid foundations. The fire brigade were in the estate 3 times in a month recently to extinguish fires that gurriers had started by setting fire to portocabins the builder used to occupy, before he fú**ed off down under. We have 5 houses built, 4 of which have never been occupied. Now, the bastard gurriers have smashed all the windows. We have had sewerage problems, and of course unfinished roads. This in an estate where houses fetched up to €400k 4 years ago.

And they expect us to pay a property tax?? NFW! (No F*****g Way).

Now, MadsL et al, see where the militancy is coming from?

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

dx, do you really expect someone to pay into the system and get absolutely nothing back out of it except the pleasure of saying they are Irish? this isnt a fiefdom.

Irishcrx is probably an exception in never having got anything back. It is quite possible that many opponents of property tax are net gainers from the system.

tayto lover

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

What sort of trouble?

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What sort of trouble?

Protesting at T.D.'s offices etc.
Do you deny they were tricked into registering?

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

Hi Tayto

Good to be able to talk to You again:)

I'm not going to talk about any other estate. Only OURS...and houses that were once worth €400K are now worth €150-190k. The site is a shambles. It is now becoming a dumping ground for undesirables.

We were fed a complete load of BS last year by cllrs & td's ( ALL I might add from FG ).

TBH, they don't give 2 fcuks about us...until there is an election in the offing. Memories can be short, but there is such rebellion within the estate ( we are actually having this years AGM tomorrow night - THAT SHOULD be interesting) these guys have NO chance of getting re-elected. Only galling thing is that they will still be entitled to their PENSION...yet ANOTHER sick trait in our society.

And then we have people from the Nevada desert telling us to pay??? They ARE entitled to their opinion, but please don't let them come along and tell us what WE must do. I know what I am doing, and won't pay. They may try and take it from income, but can see serious court battles down the road on this count also.

Yet, the bould EK was in Washington this week blowing his trumpet saying the economy has turned? What part of 'people don't have money' doesn't he understand? And then they wonder why car sales have dropped off so allarmingly this year?

Herr Kenny....PEOPLE ARE SCARED!!!

I know I am!

tayto lover

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Hi Tayto

Good to be able to talk to You again:)

I'm not going to talk about any other estate. Only OURS...and houses that were once worth €400K are now worth €150-190k. The site is a shambles. It is now becoming a dumping ground for undesirables.

We were fed a complete load of BS last year by cllrs & td's ( ALL I might add from FG ).

TBH, they don't give 2 fcuks about us...until there is an election in the offing. Memories can be short, but there is such rebellion within the estate ( we are actually having this years AGM tomorrow night - THAT SHOULD be interesting) these guys have NO chance of getting re-elected.

And then we have people from the Nevada desert telling us to pay??? They ARE entitled to their opinion, but please don't let them come along and tell us what WE must do. I know what I am doing, and won't pay. They may try and take it from income, but can see serious court battles down the road on this count also.

Yet, the bould EK was in Washington this week blowing his trumpet saying the economy has turned? What part of 'people don't have money' doesn't he understand? And then they wonder why car sales have dropped off so allarmingly this year?

Herr Kenny....PEOPLE ARE SCARED!!!

I know I am!

Yes they have taken so much out of the economy now that it will lead to even more job losses.
They also plan to take another 3.5 billion in the next budget. So much less for people to spend in their local businesses and so few jobs being created.
They just don't see the problems people are encountering from their comfortable ivory towers. Yet their people on here are so prepared to stand up for them, it's amazing.

Hope things improve for you. There are many like you.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What sort of trouble?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3idfuXQCq7A

Le_Dieux

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes they have taken so much out of the economy now that it will lead to even more job losses.
They also plan to take another 3.5 billion in the next budget. So much less for people to spend in their local businesses and so few jobs being created.
They just don't see the problems people are encountering from their comfortable ivory towers. Yet their people on here are so prepared to stand up for them, it's amazing.

Hope things improve for you. There are many like you.

Thanks Tayto. We are aware we are not unique, and the thing ( for me ) is that we must stand together, and fight this corrupt wasteful society. OMG if My Mom was alive today She would think I flipped ( I was a hippy in another life:D )

Another thing I heard today...Mick Noonan CHAIRED that meeting which decided to take that % from savings in the Cyrpiot banking system.

I heard Coveny today 'categorically' state it will NEVER happen here. But I don't trust these bunch of ( call them what You like). They have NO idea how tough it is out here - NONE!

miftha

Never had dealings with revenue for any non-payment (although now I am being pushed into a position of being one), therefore I have some questions folks may know the answers to....

The current property tax only allows for one person to be liable (you can only enter one payee and their PPS number). What will happen when revenue come after dual owners? Will they select one of the dual owners out of a hat and go after them, or split it equally when they take it from each salary|pension|savings (assumption both working)?
I am also sure (know of) some couples who are separated but joint owners. One is not living in the house but could be forced to pay this on top of rent!

Do they have to have a court order to make this deduction? Which could include no communication from home the owner to even confirm they are the real property owner(s)?

Will they take this in one amount (possibly including fines) or spread it over time (as other well known tax dodgers can do)? If taken in one amount, it will have the effect for our family to not pay some other bill (lecky, gas or potentially mortgage).

If/when a sheriff is appointed to get the money, does the Sheriff have the right to forcefully break into your house to obtain goods to the value of the outstanding amount?

The revenue fear is funny to see. Do they think that when you refuse to pay this year, that you won’t do the exact same next year and so on. Fine, fees, etc, I will continue this approach year after year (if it lasts) to oppose and frustrate.

I won’t be replying or paying anything.

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3idfuXQCq7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx7-OiwjRr0

tayto lover

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Thanks Tayto. We are aware we are not unique, and the thing ( for me ) is that we must stand together, and fight this corrupt wasteful society. OMG if My Mom was alive today She would think I flipped ( I was a hippy in another life:D )

Another thing I heard today...Mick Noonan CHAIRED that meeting which decided to take that % from savings in the Cyrpiot banking system.

I heard Coveny today 'categorically' state it will NEVER happen here. But I don't trust these bunch of ( call them what You like). They have NO idea how tough it is out here - NONE!

But sure "that's what you do in an election" -- Pat Rabbitte on lying.
It didn't stop at the election Pat.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx7-OiwjRr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What sort of trouble?

Trouble with a capital 'T'.

Le_Dieux

Don't know if anyone else heard this this morning?

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20174941%3A133%3A21%2D03%2D2013%3A

Fair play to PK...he tore strips off Lynch. Actuually felt sorry for Lynch, he was hung out to dry by the EK/EG/MN mafia!

Lynch was TOTALLY out of his depth.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Irishcrx is probably an exception in never having got anything back. It is quite possible that many opponents of property tax are net gainers from the system.

its more than quite possible that those proponents of the tax are the real net gainers and would benefit even more by encouraging to pay, those who receive little or nothing for their money.

wouldnt that make a little more sense?

bgrizzley

tayto lover wrote: »

Protesting at T.D.'s offices etc.
Do you deny they were tricked into registering?

not only were they tricked into registering but they probably recieve the least services from the councils and probably, pivately, pay the most for those services they do recieve.
very devious FG, bertie would be proud...

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

So 90% of the homes exempt the HHC are now going to have to pay the LPT.

I see a lot of trouble ahead with this. They couldn't all have been finished in the meantime.
It proves once and for all that registering for the HHC was just a sneaky way of providing the database for the LPT but I knew that anyway as did many posters on here.
When you register you're caught. The Govt lied again.

You might be familiar with some of the streets/estates in Co Louth. I glanced at it last year and remember being surprised that Medebawn and Lis na Dara in Dundalk were exempt.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/housing-developments-exempt-from-household-charge-in-louth-27162886.html

tayto lover

bgrizzley wrote: »

not only were they tricked into registering but they probably recieve the least services from the councils and probably, pivately, pay the most for those services they do recieve.
very devious FG, bertie would be proud...

It must be quite galling to people who are really struggling to see that no politician, banker or corrupt developer has even been in court yet. They are still leading the high life while the people who have to pay for their crimes are struggling. Fingers didn't even return his 1million bonus as he promised to do.

Register and pay up indeed.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You might be familiar with some of the streets/estates in Co Louth. I glanced at it last year and remember being surprised that Medebawn and Lis na Dara in Dundalk were exempt.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/housing-developments-exempt-from-household-charge-in-louth-27162886.html

Well it seems they're not exempt now. It was all just a ruse to get them to register it seems.

bgrizzley

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I heard Coveny today 'categorically' state it will NEVER happen here. But I don't trust these bunch of ( call them what You like). They have NO idea how tough it is out here - NONE!

i wonder would that "never happen here" be a bit like Vardakars "not another red cent"...

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Well it seems they're not exempt now. It was all just a ruse to get them to register it seems.

I'm glad it worked. They have much nicer houses than me.

Banjo String

bgrizzley wrote: »

i wonder would that "never happen here" be a bit like Vardakars "not another red cent"...

Don't forget merry Mr Gilmor€.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Protesting at T.D.'s offices etc.
Do you deny they were tricked into registering?

Would you think it will be as vicious as the protests over the HHC?:eek:

Banjo String

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Would you think it will be as vicious as the protests over the HHC?:eek:

Protests don't need to be 'viscous'.

Ask some of the 600,000 that took part in the hhc boycott.

Many successful prosecutions on that was there?

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Would you think it will be as vicious as the protests over the HHC?:eek:

Like a Kerryman you are Donal in answering a question with another question.
Maybe you would like to give your opinion.
Were they tricked?

tayto lover

bgrizzley wrote: »

i wonder would that "never happen here" be a bit like Vardakars "not another red cent"...

Or the "it is unjust, unfair etc" from Kenny.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Like a Kerryman you are Donal in answering a question with another question.
Maybe you would like to give your opinion.
Were they tricked?

Not if they were on Boards.ie!!

In any event with the relatively low number of units involved (coupled with the multitude of info sources available to Revenue), I reckon they have found them in the end.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Not if they were on Boards.ie!!

In any event with the relatively low number of units involved (coupled with the multitude of info sources available to Revenue), I reckon they have found them in the end.

Not really.
Dead people are still getting mail even from revenue.
Children are getting mail from revenue too according to Joe today.

The database is very far from complete it seems.

Bishop_Donal

SamHall wrote: »

Protests don't need to be 'viscous'.

Ask some of the 600,000 that took part in the hhc boycott.

Many successful prosecutions on that was there?

Maybe it's better to leave the penalties / interest accumulate on it first as it will make it more cost effective to collect. I genuinely believe that Revenue will go after it (but I accept that only time will really tell).

KevIRL

@ Le Dieux and any other residents of unfinished estates.

This is the latest in a long line of things government and local authorities have done which is the opposite of what they should be doing - ie helping us to get our estates to some sort finished condition.

I started a thread in the Accomadation and Property forum earlier about possibly getting some form of organised group together nationally to exert pressure on the Govt and also to share learnings. There are so many unfinished estates nationally going through similar experiences and fighting their own battles at a local level, there must be some way we can all help each other

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056908102

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Not really.
Dead people are still getting mail even from revenue.
Children are getting mail from revenue too according to Joe today.

The database is very far from complete it seems.

I wouldn't expect the database to be correct on a first attempt. It will take time to refine esp as it's a moving target. Mail going to dead people will ultimately make its way to their executors.

Wabbit Ears

this "unfinished Estates" estates this is the biggest load of Cop out B0ll0cks codology out there. Ive been to a fair number of the estates in North Dublin that were exempt from the household charge that had little more then a leftover Container and a half built bit of wall which classed the entire estate which was well finished into the this bracket.

People who should have got exempt from the household charge and this the new list way more accuratly reflects the true number of unfinished and ghost estates.

mikom

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Maybe it's better to leave the penalties / interest accumulate on it first as it will make it more cost effective to collect. I genuinely believe that Revenue will go after it (but I accept that only time will really tell).

Let me tell you what is going to happen with this property tax.
The revenue will run it for the first two years to put the shits up people, then once the numbers are up, it'll be handed over to another newly formed quango as useless as the local authorities.

I'll be taking my chances with non-payment.

Still to receive the letter by the way............ despite all the data bases and "multitude of info sources".

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I wouldn't expect the database to be correct on a first attempt. It will take time to refine esp as it's a moving target. Mail going to dead people will ultimately make its way to their executors.

Even if it was perfect how are they going to get money from people who have nothing left to give?
If a person can't afford to pay his mortgage then how can he pay a tax on his house?

They should defer this tax until the country is in better shape.
Too much austerity in too short a period.

KevIRL

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

this "unfinished Estates" estates this is the biggest load of Cop out B0ll0cks codology out there. Ive been to a fair number of the estates in North Dublin that were exempt from the household charge that had little more then a leftover Container and a half built bit of wall which classed the entire estate which was well finished into the this bracket.

People who should have got exempt from the household charge and this the new list way more accuratly reflects the true number of unfinished and ghost estates.

I dont care about paying the property tax, thats not the issue. The issue is that the local and national authorities are doing SFA to help us and we are being left to rot.

People living in these estates are just so worn down by negativity now, perhaps some sort of national grouping could get enough pressure applied to get things fixed, you know the stuff you take for granted, like roadsurfaces, lighting, not having to live in a place surrounded by high metallic fences.

barneystinson

SamHall wrote: »

Protests don't need to be 'viscous'.

Ask some of the 600,000 that took part in the hhc boycott.

Many successful prosecutions on that was there?

You talk about it like it's ancient history. They'll get around to collecting HHC, all in good time...

Le_Dieux

SamHall wrote: »

Don't forget merry Mr Gilmor€.

In the past, I would have leant towards Labour, but as long as EG is there, I'll NEVER vote for them again. In my book, he's the lowest of the low, after the lies he spewed out and the way he treated Róisín Shortall.

Le_Dieux

barneystinson wrote: »

You talk about it like it's ancient history. They'll get around to collecting HHC, all in good time...

Source for your assertive statement?