revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

No I havent.

Why did you not take the tax advantage of being married???

username123

MadsL wrote: »

Why did you not take the tax advantage of being married???

Because (a) we earned roughly the same so there was no tax advantage and (b) we just never bothered and (c) we both wanted to maintain financial independence from each other and (d) we're not that long married.

Mostly (b).

seamus

Assuming you were living in your current home before you were made redundant, then you probably received a tax credits cert in your name, to your address.

Revenue know who you are and where you live.

AnonoBoy

I upgraded all my houses to hotels last time I passed Go so they're not getting nuthin' from me.

Sincerely,

The Top Hat.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

Because (a) we earned roughly the same so there was no tax advantage and (b) we just never bothered and (c) we both wanted to maintain financial independence from each other and (d) we're not that long married.

Mostly (b).

You would have had a huge tax advantage when your husband was working and you were not - in fact you probably will get a tax refund if you apply, instead of trying to tax dodge.

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

The homeowners have already been identified. 1.6 million of us. The letter and the form to complete will be arriving to your door addressed personally to you sam hall, 123 dunmoving street ballygobackwards, in the next 4 weeks. If you do not respond to the letter in the given time, Revenue will proceed to put a charge against your house for the amount of the estimate they give you. they will simply access your wages or your company accounts or your DSP payments and take the money, plus a penalty.
There will be no appeals and no correspondence of any kind. There will be no negotiations entered into or discretion used.
Anyone who has ever dealt with revenue will tell you that this is how they operate.

Revenue said that from next week letters will be sent to owners of 1.6 million houses. It will take four weeks to send the letters.

Revenue chairman Josephine Feehily admitted that there would be errors. She said that some letters may sent to people who are deceased, while others may be sent in error to tenants instead of landlords.

Indeed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0307/374568-some-errors-expected-on-property-tax-letters/

bgrizzley

MadsL wrote: »

You would have had a huge tax advantage when your husband was working and you were not - in fact you probably will get a tax refund if you apply, instead of trying to tax dodge.

calling someone who has 0 income a tax dodger...:rolleyes:

username123

bgrizzley wrote: »

calling someone who has 0 income a tax dodger...:rolleyes:

Thats what this country has come to. I dont get a cent from the state, I live off my savings, but Im now a tax dodger eh? You couldnt make it up. I tried to sell my property so I would have no liability for this tax but the bank wont let me due to the negative equity.

Banjo String

mango salsa wrote: »

The bit about the Island.

Fixed.:p

MadsL

bgrizzley wrote: »

calling someone who has 0 income a tax dodger...:rolleyes:

Husband has income according to her, or are married couples not jointly responsible for taxes in your world?

end of the road

NiallSparky wrote: »

You don't own a part of Ireland, you're effectively renting it.

rubbish, if you have payed your mortgage then you own the property and the land its on, if the government want to tax you on it they should buy it off you and charge you rent that way.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Why should you not have to pay rent for the bit of Ireland you're using

why should you? your not renting it.

NiallSparky wrote: »

if it ensures the most efficient use of the land?

<rolls on the floor laughing>

NiallSparky wrote: »

How would you feel if 1 person bought half the property in the country and just left lying there doing nothing with it? Is that fair or should they be charged (via property tax) for this privilege?

no, theirs a compulsory purchase law to deal with such situations

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's how if happens in every other EU country with the exception of Malta.

were ireland, we don't have to do everything another european country does

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's without going into the free services you get from your local authority.

at least in other countries you do get services and efficiently to, in ireland you get the odd 1 from the council depending on where you live, most likely if left to local authorities to deliver all services they may end up being only half delivered (after all this is ireland, the land of the half do things)

NiallSparky wrote: »

If you want to take this uber-liberal attitude to property then pay for the roads outside your house, your water pipes, your street lighting.

may not be a bad idea, at least they might get maintained properly and fixed quick

username123

MadsL wrote: »

Husband has income according to her, or are married couples not jointly responsible for taxes in your world?

His name is not on the property. Its not his tax liability.

Ive said I am happy for revenue to put a judgement against the property - how does that make me a tax dodger or do you just like to spout personal abuse because some people have different financial circumstances to yourself?

end of the road

irish-stew wrote: »

Am sure their will be people comparing this to the council tax in England, my self included. When that was first launched, there was protests, and people refusing to pay as well. Now its pretty much normal

but you do more or less get services for your money (all though with some their are post code lotteries which is not good enough)
i also wouldn't want the style of local authorities britain have, to much power for my liking and just another form of government, yes the thinking behind it was good but in practice its not working i believe.

irish-stew wrote: »

councils came down hard with persecutions if it was not paid up.

of course they did, shur they need the money for their expenses for the tay and hang sangwidges do they not?

bgrizzley

MadsL wrote: »

Husband has income according to her, or are married couples not jointly responsible for taxes in your world?

Play fair. She didnt take advantage of that to her benefit when she lost her income.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

Because (a) we earned roughly the same so there was no tax advantage and (b) we just never bothered and (c) we both wanted to maintain financial independence from each other and (d) we're not that long married.

Mostly (b).

This makes no sense, at all, unless you are so wealthy that the tax benefit is just a drop in the ocean

I guess your master plan to avoid property tax will work.... so long as you

• continue to loose out on 1000s of euros of tax credits every year
• never claim any state benefits
• never work for the rest of your life
• never claim a state pension
• never claim a private pension
• never keep money in a bank
• continue to be supported by your husband

Of course, even then, they will just tack the bill onto your estate...with interest.

mrsbyrne

SamHall wrote: »

Indeed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0307/374568-some-errors-expected-on-property-tax-letters/

If a letter arrives at your home adressed to someone who doesnt live there, you could return it unopened or ignore it, Then Revenue will proceed to pursue that person for the tax. When it quickly becomes obviuous that that person is not liable for the tax, it will be quite easy to find out who is, and charge the current owner. They will also fine the owner as it is your responsibilty as a liable home owner to self-assess for LPT.

username123

Occam wrote: »

This makes no sense, at all, unless you are so wealthy that the tax benefit is just a drop in the ocean

Im not going into more detail on a public forum, suffice to say there are personal reasons why we never did.

There is no master plan, I am simply observing that currently there is no way for revenue to go after my wages, social welfare or bank accounts. There are thousands of other people in a similar position.

What happens when Im dead is of little concern to me.

mrsbyrne

username123 wrote: »

Im not going into more detail on a public forum, suffice to say there are personal reasons why we never did.

There is no master plan, I am simply observing that currently there is no way for revenue to go after my wages, social welfare or bank accounts. There are thousands of other people in a similar position.

What happens when Im dead is of little concern to me.

Are you connected to electricity username 123? I presume you are. Revenue have accessed all the utilities companies to trace ownership of properties. If you refuse to deal with them they will ultimately have the Sherriffs office come to your home to take goods to the value of the tax plus penalties plus costs that you owe your fellow citizens.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

Im not going into more detail on a public forum, suffice to say there are personal reasons why we never did.

There is no master plan, I am simply observing that currently there is no way for revenue to go after my wages, social welfare or bank accounts. There are thousands of other people in a similar position.

What happens when Im dead is of little concern to me.

There are very, very few people with no income, bank accounts or social welfare benefits who are property owners, and not jointly assessed with their spouse. Even less of these will maintain that status for the rest of their life.

Once they get a state pension, for example, they will be liable for tax, interest and penalties, which will add up, especially after a few years.

username123

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Are you connected to electricity username 123? I presume you are. Revenue have accessed all the utilities companies to trace ownership of properties. If you refuse to deal with them they will ultimately have the Sherriffs office come to your home to take goods to the value of the tax plus penalties plus costs that you owe your fellow citizens.

What a bunch of scaremongering rubbish.

I do not deny that revenue know who I am. I am happy for them to put a judgement against the property. I am simply observing that the current threats of "it will be taken from your wages, social welfare or savings" do not wash with me as I have none of the above.

Id be happy at a spell in prison for this, I have dental work outstanding that I simply cannot afford to have done.

relax carry on

sfwcork wrote: »

you must be a very special boy so because with mine its going to take at least 2-3 months

I even asked a relation who is a mamaner with the revenue can she ensure that my email is moved up and she couldnt as the boys at the top have stopped it and every email has to be done by date

Slightly off topic but you wanted a relative to move your issue ahead of others? Processing items of correspondence in date order allows everyone to be treated equally.

Depending on what taxhead you a claiming a refund under, you could be dealing with an understaffed area and or an area at its peak period. If you have been requested to provide additional info that will obviously slow things down. Sometimes you just have to be patient.

If you feel that you are being hard doneby then you can lodge a complaint, but maybe read the customer service charter.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/custservice/standards.html

bastados

bastados wrote: »

"The revolution is coming" - Deputy Joe Higgins

Is that why he's retiring? Had enough, poor thing. He's burnt out.

username123

Occam wrote: »

There are very, very few people with no income, bank accounts or social welfare benefits who are property owners, and not jointly assessed with their spouse.

You think so? I know plenty. Self employed people who are not entitled to social welfare whose businesses have gone bust.

Im sorry if this upsets your world view.

Mikros

The reality is the Government are terrified that this tax will go the same way as the household property charge last year. If the same numbers of people ignore, contest or otherwise obstruct paying the tax the system will simply not be able to cope and the very credibility of the government will be at stake. Hence why we are being subject to all sorts of dire threats about revenue taking money directly from your bank account and trying to close off every loophole possible.

This is not a property tax like in other countries - the money is not ring fenced for local services, it goes into a central funds, a quarter of which will be going to pay for debt servicing. The plan is to get it up and running now and gradually increase it every budget. Just like the water fees when they come in.

With nearly >100,000 owner occupier mortgages in some kind of distress, a charge on their property they cannot sell and worth a mere fraction of the outstanding mortgage is a slap in the face to many people desperately struggling. Not to mention thousands who are paying an annual management fee already. But our politicians are still the highest paid in Europe - because they are worth it you see...

AdamD

V_Moth wrote: »

What is interesting is that the Govt have vehemently rejected any Financial Transaction Tax (thanks IBEC!) along with the UK. All other European govts stand to gain 3 to 5 billion each. If this had been implemented in 2009, we could have paid back the majority of the debts by now (4 years x say 5 billion).

I suppose it is much easier to go after 2 million house owners rather than a few dozen companies...

They rejected that tax because if they didn't, all of those companies would have gone straight to the UK (who also rejected that tax), thus losing the government far, far more money in tax than they would gain. :rolleyes:

chillywilly

Why is it that the revenue system is so efficient and every other department is so useless?

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If a letter arrives at your home adressed to someone who doesnt live there, you could return it unopened or ignore it, Then Revenue will proceed to pursue that person for the tax. When it quickly becomes obviuous that that person is not liable for the tax, it will be quite easy to find out who is, and charge the current owner. They will also fine the owner as it is your responsibilty as a liable home owner to self-assess for LPT.

I, and I suggest anyone else opposed to this tax will be marking the letter 'return to sender' and throwing it into the nearest post box.


Or alternatively, pop it in an envelope, and send it to:

Phil Hogan
Grovine
County Kilkenny.

mrsbyrne

username123 wrote: »

What a bunch of scaremongering rubbish.

I do not deny that revenue know who I am. I am happy for them to put a judgement against the property. I am simply observing that the current threats of "it will be taken from your wages, social welfare or savings" do not wash with me as I have none of the above.

Id be happy at a spell in prison for this, I have dental work outstanding that I simply cannot afford to have done.

Its not scaremongering rubbish.You say you have no wages, SW or savings but if you are paying for utilities then Revenue know you have income.If you pay for your electricity, then you can pay your taxes. Its not rocket science. The law that was passed gave Revenue the power to access your utilities accounts.
I dont understand the reference to prison and/or dental work.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

You think so? I know plenty. Self employed people who are not entitled to social welfare whose businesses have gone bust.

Im sorry if this upsets your world view.

Strawman argument, you seem to have forgotten the bit where I mentioned that they will have no bank accounts, no income, no dsp benefits and no assessable spouse ! The number is not zero, but its very, very low.

I'd bet that in a few years time, when they want to claim a pension or something, they will really regret having to pay the 8% interest and penalties.

username123

username123 wrote: »

Well they are almost used up now (been redundant almost 2 years). They were in a bank (and some emergency amount under the mattress) but we had to live off them - my husband was redundant for some of that time as well. My husband supports me now but he isnt connected with the property in any official sense. Social welfare know we are married, but as we are so often told as an excuse why child benefit cant be taxed for example, social welfare and revenue have no interconnecting systems - so for property tax purposes, theres simply nowhere to take the money from with me.

They will just tax your Husband then. As your Husband, he doesn't have to have his name on the deeds to be entitled to half, as it's the marital home.

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Its not scaremongering rubbish.You say you have no wages, SW or savings but if you are paying for utilities then Revenue know you have income.If you pay for your electricity, then you can pay your taxes. Its not rocket science. The law that was passed gave Revenue the power to access your utilities accounts.
I dont understand the reference to prison and/or dental work.

Where does it say the Sherrif will come knocking?

I missed that bit tbh.

username123

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Its not scaremongering rubbish.You say you have no wages, SW or savings but if you are paying for utilities then Revenue know you have income.If you pay for your electricity, then you can pay your taxes.

Whats scaremongering rubbish is business about the sherriff. Do you really think the sherriff gets sent out over a couple of hundred euro? Seriously?

My husband pays utilities.

mrsbyrne

SamHall wrote: »

I, and I suggest anyone else opposed to this tax will be marking the letter 'return to sender' and throwing it into the nearest post box.


Or alternatively, pop it in an envelope, and send it to:

Phil Hogan
Grovine
County Kilkenny.

...so samhall anyone who takes your advice needs to be aware that if they do that then Revenue will proceed to put a charge against their home for the estimate included in the original covering letter they received, plus penalties. Revenue have already got access to all your income. Its easy for them.

bgrizzley

SamHall wrote: »

Where does it say the Sherrif will come knocking?

I missed that bit tbh.

i think the sherriff was calling after the clipboard wielding council officers, or was the LGMA calling before them or was that after the conmen pretending they were collecting for the DOE.
There's so many calling now i cant keep up...

Chinasea

And where is the money supposed to come from to pay for: ?

Fire and emergency services
Maintenance and cleaning of streets
Planning and development
Parks
Street lighting
Libraries
Open spaces and leisure amenities
to name but a few.

Ireland is one of the last countries in Europe that does not fund local services through local property-based charges. Same with water. We should ALL be contributing something.

And, you will find that many of the European will have a much more pro-active approach when it comes to their environment and how it is looked after both by the inhabitants and by their local authority, and make activities down in the Town Hall hopefully more accountable. But, again that is up to the locals. Perhaps paying for these services helps people realize that our resources aren't bottomless pits.

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

...so samhall anyone who takes your advice needs to be aware that if they do that then Revenue will proceed to put a charge against their home for the estimate included in the original covering letter they received, plus penalties. Revenue have already got access to all your income. Its easy for them.

No sheriff this time?

Chop Chop

sfwcork wrote: »

Its quite funny how yesterday when she was on the radio she was saying how fast they will turn it all around

When I rang them 3 wks ago to tell them they owe me cash I had to send off email proof..when then takes 6-8 weeks to be seen and then further time to be acted upon

It took me 6 months to get 5k back off them, they really didn't want to give me my money back, funny how its snatched off you in an instant, but when there is a mistake and the shoe is on the other foot it's takes forever to get your money back.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

I am simply observing that the current threats of "it will be taken from your wages, social welfare or savings" do not wash with me as I have none of the above.

username123 wrote: »

I set aside a few grand a year for privately funded 3rd level education

Where do you get the few grand to put away if you have no income?

username123 wrote: »

I manage it by paying the mortgage and bills first

Is your husband paying paying the bills and mortgage, or are you ?

username123 wrote: »

I dont go near savings for frivolous matters

Did you not say your savings were almost run out, as you have been living off them?

mrsbyrne

username123 wrote: »

Whats scaremongering rubbish is business about the sherriff. Do you really think the sherriff gets sent out over a couple of hundred euro? Seriously?

My husband pays utilities.

QUOTE=username123;83573628]Whats scaremongering rubbish is business about the sherriff. Do you really think the sherriff gets sent out over a couple of hundred euro? Seriously?

My husband pays utilities.[/QUOTE]
If your husband is the name on the utilities, and you think this is the only link to the ownership of your home, then the letter from Revenue will come to him.
He says he is not liable but he is obliged by law to give the name and PPSN of the person who is. You. A sample of the form is available on revenue.ie.

mrsbyrne

SamHall wrote: »

No sheriff this time?

It wont go as far as the sherrif in many cases samhall. revenue have the legal authority to access your bank A/C wages SW etc. But yes if citizens go to all the trouble and risk of hiding all their income, then we have been informed that the sherrifs office will get involved. and dont forget at that stage you will have incurred not only the tax but penalties and costs as well. all over a few euros a week

username123

Occam wrote: »

Where do you get the few grand to put away if you have no income?

When I had income I did. Obviously I cant do that right now.

Occam wrote: »

Is your husband paying paying the bills and mortgage, or are you ?

We both are but my savings will run out in a few weeks.

Occam wrote: »

Did you not say your savings were almost run out, as you have been living off them?

Yes, Id say Ive 5 or 6 weeks left before I have nada.

username123

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If your husband is the name on the utilities, and you think this is the only link to the ownership of your home, then the letter from Revenue will come to him.
He says he is not liable but he is obliged by law to give the name and PPSN of the person who is. You. A sample of the form is available on revenue.ie.

His name isnt on any utilities.

I do not deny I am liable. I simply have no income, social welfare or savings left to pay. Im happy to pay when I get an income.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I've reported to revenue that I died recently. Hopefully that should cover me and if they decided to call to my house I'll play dead till they go away again. Stupid revenue.

mrsbyrne

username123 wrote: »

His name isnt on any utilities.

So, whoevers name is on the utilities is obliged by law to reveal the name and PPSN of the person who is liable for the tax. If you own that house , and you admit , ithink, that you do, then the liable person is you.

mrsbyrne

CJC999 wrote: »

I've reported to revenue that I died recently. Hopefully that should cover me and if they decided to call to my house I'll play dead till they go away again. Stupid revenue.

That should do the trick!:pac:

smash

chillywilly wrote: »

Why is it that the revenue system is so efficient and every other department is so useless?

Only when they're looking for money... They never tell you when you've over paid!

Hootanany

mrsbyrne wrote: »

It wont go as far as the sherrif in many cases samhall. revenue have the legal authority to access your bank A/C wages SW etc. But yes if citizens go to all the trouble and risk of hiding all their income, then we have been informed that the sherrifs office will get involved. and dont forget at that stage you will have incurred not only the tax but penalties and costs as well. all over a few euros a week

Do you work for the Revenue.

username123

mrsbyrne wrote: »

So, whoevers name is on the utilities is obliged by law to reveal the name and PPSN of the person who is liable for the tax. If you own that house , and you admit , ithink, that you do, then the liable person is you.

Ive never denied that Im liable. Revenue know who I am. Thats fine. I am simply stating, yet again, that I have no income, social welfare or savings to take the money from - so I cant pay it. Let them put a judgement against the property. So what? I can never sell it, the negative equity is huge.

mrsbyrne

Hootanany wrote: »

Do you work for the Revenue.

No, I wish. Just have had excellent training in the LPT. They really have every eventuality (excuse?) covered. My husband is taking the family laptop off me now but put up your best arguments and ill answer them later.

Banjo String

mrsbyrne wrote: »

It wont go as far as the sherrif in many cases samhall. revenue have the legal authority to access your bank A/C wages SW etc. But yes if citizens go to all the trouble and risk of hiding all their income, then we have been informed that the sherrifs office will get involved. and dont forget at that stage you will have incurred not only the tax but penalties and costs as well. all over a few euros a week

We'll take it from your wages, we'll take it from your dole, we'll pillage your bank account, we'll raid your pension fund, we'll place a charge on the property.......

Now its the sheriff you say.....

Really?

Do you think it is wise to needlessly tie up all our revenue resources over 'a few euro pert week' when billions is being lost to real tax evaders/black market each year?

Those already billions will undoubtedly rise now due to resources being otherwise engaged chasing pensioners though.

Very smart govt, very smart indeed.