revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

Ive never denied that Im liable. Revenue know who I am. Thats fine. I am simply stating, yet again, that I have no income, social welfare or savings to take the money from - so I cant pay it. Let them put a judgement against the property. So what? I can never sell it, the negative equity is huge.

I'm afraid you don't get to choose how Revenue pursue the liability. Clearly it would be preferable for you to defer this until your death, however it almost certainly won't work that way.

It is very likely, that at some stage in the future you will want or need to engage with Revenue or DSP, for example if you decide to claim a pension, child benefit, get a job, receive an inheritance, qualify for Job seekers, sick benefit, etc., or ever even deposit money in a bank account, then they will take the money that way.

username123

Occam wrote: »

It is very likely, that at some stage in the future you will want or need to engage with Revenue or DSP, for example if you decide to claim a pension, child benefit, get a job, receive an inheritance, qualify for Job seekers, sick benefit, etc., or ever even deposit money in a bank account, then they will take the money that way.

Grand. But right now - nothing they can do that has any impact on me. We'll see how it really plays out. I strongly suspect all the scaremongering going on here and in the media will turn out to be so much bluff. Too many people to chase, no enough man power, too many genuine cases, and the next general election will be won by whoever promises to get rid of it.

We had people promising all sorts of personal armageddon about the household charge too and nothing happened except it got tacked onto the local property tax.

Occam

username123 wrote: »

Grand. But right now - nothing they can do that has any impact on me. We'll see how it really plays out. I strongly suspect all the scaremongering going on here and in the media will turn out to be so much bluff. Too many people to chase, no enough man power, too many genuine cases, and the next general election will be won by whoever promises to get rid of it.

We had people promising all sorts of personal armageddon about the household charge too and nothing happened except it got tacked onto the local property tax.

Agreed, but your case is very, very unusual. Id almost guess unique.

The overwhelming majority of people in your case would be claiming mortgage interest relief for example, and almost everyone would be jointly assessed where one spouse had an income and the other didn't.

username123

Occam wrote: »

Agreed, but your case is very, very unusual. Id almost guess unique.

The overwhelming majority of people in your case would be claiming mortgage interest relief for example, and almost everyone would be jointly assessed where one spouse had an income and the other didn't.

Its really not, I know a number of people (even within my extended family) in somewhat similar positions.

end of the road

Chinasea wrote: »

And where is the money supposed to come from to pay for: ?
Maintenance and cleaning of streets
Parks
Street lighting
Libraries
Open spaces and leisure amenities

don't know, don't care, i live out the country and don't use such services, the current taxes can well pay for the emergency services, and i'm sure all the development and planning charges that do currently exist should surely cover Planning and development?

Chinasea wrote: »

Ireland is one of the last countries in Europe that does not fund local services through local property-based charges.

but i can bet in those european countries they get the required services efficiently and to a high standard, here we'l only get a half arsed job most likely

Chinasea wrote: »

Same with water. We should ALL be contributing something.

toards water? if you use the council mains then yes, if you live out the country and have your own well and pay for the care and maintenence of your own pipes and other infrastructure then no, my land my water.

Chinasea wrote: »

you will find that many of the European will have a much more pro-active approach when it comes to their environment and how it is looked after both by the inhabitants and by their local authority, and make activities down in the Town Hall hopefully more accountable. But, again that is up to the locals.

different cultures act different ways

Chinasea wrote: »

Perhaps paying for these services helps people realize that our resources aren't bottomless pits.

in ireland making people pay for services isn't going to make them care more about them or realise their not "bottomless pits" its just going to get up the goats of people who just can't afford to pay any more, you can't get blood out of a stone, if the money isn't there for people to pay theirs nothing can be done.

mfceiling

Interesting to hear Leo Vradkar on the radio this morning, saying people need to take a look at their spending if they claim they can't afford this tax.

ilovesleep

mfceiling wrote: »

Interesting to hear Leo Vradkar on the radio this morning, saying people need to take a look at their spending if they claim they can't afford this tax.

Easy for him to say. How much of a pay packet is he on? The cheek of him.

Bullseye1

Leo isn't living in the real world with his €100k + salary and his huge pension he has to look forward too. He has no idea what people are actually going through in his ivory tower.

Lumbo

Leo tried to strike up some conversation with me in the airport in Poznan (the morning after the Ireland v Italy match). I told him to **** off. Even though it wasn't sound, I've a feeling that I'll look back on it in years to come as the one of the greatest things I've ever done.

Maudi

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Leo isn't living in the real world with his €100k + salary and his huge pension he has to look forward too. He has no idea what people are actually going through in his ivory tower.

sure even the slithery bertie who has been under criminal investigation is on a state pension of thousands a week! UNDER CRIMINAL investigation..AND hes GIVEN thousands..WE ARE ****ED!!

ilovesleep

Maudi wrote: »

times coming...even if some of the 450.000 unemployed storm the dail and oust these cnuts then demand that we have a gov from brussells run us temporarily at top salary of 45.000 thou ..gets rid of the leeches in gov.that we dont need who are killing the country ..

I wonder could we ever get rid of our government? There was a European country there for a while, without a government, wasn't there. Not in the hope of demolishing a property tax. I understand the reasons for introducing the tax. But because they are forcing us down the route of austerity, dipping into our holey pockets, while they turn around and fill up theirs and include expenses.

I do not know what things are like for others, but I'm sure many more are in the same boat as me - a severely reduced income, due to unemployment or reduced working hours and reduced pay with more and more strains and demands on it. The government has no idea what things are like for many, many people and there is such a sickening patronising and condensing attitude coming from them with things like:

'you, the people of Ireland, are not to blame' ... then a few weeks later in Davos or somewhere - 'they all went mad with money borrowing'
(ah, no, we all did not. The developers who built the 3000 empty and unfinished housing estates that are lying idle in Ireland did).

'82% of the country are paying a sky package....so we're going to tax you more' - or something like that, said by who?

'if you can't afford this property tax, have a look at your spending'

Such such crap from them.

squod

Occam wrote: »

I'm afraid you don't get to choose how Revenue pursue the liability. Clearly it would be preferable for you to defer this until your death, however it almost certainly won't work that way.

It is very likely, that at some stage in the future you will want or need to engage with Revenue or DSP, for example if you decide to claim a pension, child benefit, get a job, receive an inheritance, qualify for Job seekers, sick benefit, etc., or ever even deposit money in a bank account, then they will take the money that way.

There's literally thousands of people disregarding hundreds of revenues rules daily in this country. If you believe this kind of bluster it's beyond me to explain to you how remarkable that comment is.

nlgbbbblth

SamHall wrote: »

Now its the sheriff you say.....

Sheriffs = pricks.

squod

ilovesleep wrote: »

I wonder could we ever get rid of our government?

Some countries governing parties resigned rather than hand power over to banks and thieves.

Dwork

squod wrote: »

Some countries governing parties resigned rather than hand power over to banks and thieves.

Ours would rather hand over their first born than resign. Be under no illusion. Unless their pension was unaffected. Then they'd resign quite quickly and the devil take the hindmost..

flutered

SamHall wrote: »

The last guy who challenged something as 'unconstitutional' was told to sod off, as he had no authority to challenge the govt :rolleyes:

(they didn't say he was wrong mind)

So, laws aren't that democratic in this country.

then two weeks later they changed the repayment method to the ecb, because some tds were about to take the same case to the court, which they would have won easily, the judge gave the gov some breathing space there.

username123

Dwork wrote: »

Ours would rather hand over your first born than resign.

FYP

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

One of the Trotskyite big noises in CAHWT is standing in the bye election.

Who is it?

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And unpaid licence fees aren't a charge on the title of a house.

Yet.

Maudi

ilovesleep wrote: »

I wonder could we ever get rid of our government? There was a European country there for a while, without a government, wasn't there. Not in the hope of demolishing a property tax. I understand the reasons for introducing the tax. But because they are forcing us down the route of austerity, dipping into our holey pockets, while they turn around and fill up theirs and include expenses.

I do not know what things are like for others, but I'm sure many more are in the same boat as me - a severely reduced income, due to unemployment or reduced working hours and reduced pay with more and more strains and demands on it. The government has no idea what things are like for many, many people and there is such a sickening patronising and condensing attitude coming from them with things like:

'you, the people of Ireland, are not to blame' ... then a few weeks later in Davos or somewhere - 'they all went mad with money borrowing'
(ah, no, we all did not. The developers who built the 3000 empty and unfinished housing estates that are lying idle in Ireland did).

'82% of the country are paying a sky package....so we're going to tax you more' - or something like that, said by who?

'if you can't afford this property tax, have a look at your spending'

Such such crap from them.

that criminal noonan is a physco and hes responsible for the "if you have sky" quote ..p.s. google max kaiser re. noonan...that guy with the foreign name..?vradracula? is responsible for quote "if you cant pay check your finances" and dont forget this property/water tax is collected DIRECTLY to pay bondholders..nobody else..ireland wont see a cent..this crisis wasnt made by .plumbers.teachers.mechanics.painters.shopkeepers.taxi drivers..me..or you..THIS CRISIS BELONGS TO BANKERS AND POLITITIONS .....nobody
else..

darkhorse

Sofiztikated wrote: »

"D'ya know, we don't need all this money to pay back bills."

Ah, why don't ya finish the sentence. "D'ya know, we don't need all this money to pay back bills that are not ours.

spank_inferno

Maudi wrote: »

that criminal noonan is a physco and hes responsible for the "if you have sky" quote ..p.s. google max kaiser re. noonan...that guy with the foreign name..?vradracula? is responsible for quote "if you cant pay check your finances" and dont forget this property/water tax is collected DIRECTLY to pay bondholders..nobody else..ireland wont see a cent..this crisis wasnt made by .plumbers.teachers.mechanics.painters.shopkeepers.taxi drivers..me..or you..THIS CRISIS BELONGS TO BANKERS AND POLITITIONS .....nobody
else..

Incorrect.

But don't let that stop you ranting on the internet!
Cos that's how real change happens.

Maudi

spank_inferno wrote: »

Incorrect.

But don't let that stop you ranting on the internet!
Cos that's how real change happens.

ahs afraid tis all correct son...

Dwork

spank_inferno wrote: »

Incorrect.

But don't let that stop you ranting on the internet!
Cos that's how real change happens.

Which bit isn't? If it's the "it's not our debt bit", then it is correct, It's not our debt. It deffo isn't mine anyway. I'd have noticed if I ran up a debt of a few billion. I'd have a better car anyway.

ZeroThreat

too many lefty ULA/sinner radical types on boards.ie these days, at least going by this thread....

Dwork

ZeroThreat wrote: »

too many lefty ULA/sinner radical types on boards.ie these days, at least going by this thread....

And too many _______ ________ _____ going by this post.

Banjo String

ZeroThreat wrote: »

too many lefty ULA/sinner radical types on boards.ie these days, at least going by this thread....

Or perhaps boards represents the Irish majority?

Nurses (as a small example) have taken drastic cuts to pay and conditions.
Yet bankers and politicians haven't.

Nurses caused the crap we're all in though.

Right?

Dwork

SamHall wrote: »

Or perhaps boards represents the Irish majority?

Nurses (as a small example) have taken drastic cuts to pay and conditions.
Yet bankers and politicians haven't.

Nurses caused the crap we're all in though.

Right?

Sure who really needs Nurses though? Bankers? They're systemic, dontcha know. systemic me hole.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

His name is not on the property. Its not his tax liability.

Ive said I am happy for revenue to put a judgement against the property - how does that make me a tax dodger or do you just like to spout personal abuse because some people have different financial circumstances to yourself?

You think married couples do not have joint responsibility for their tax affairs and that hiding your true marital situation from Revenue is something other than tax dodging?

I have no idea why you haven't claimed Jobseekers as you were eligible when you were made redundant as you could have claimed for one year regardless of your husbands income.

You seem a bit all over the place when it comes to your financial affairs, trying to pull the wool over Revenue's eyes probably isn't the best path.

Banjo String

Dwork wrote: »

Sure who really needs Nurses though? Bankers? They're systemic, dontcha know. systemic me hole.

Ah Dwork, we can all sleep sound in the notion that some of our fellow posters will always pay whatever taxes are written into law.

Even if it means neglecting the mortgage...

Losing the home to pay the family home tax makes sense. (if its the law)

Dwork

SamHall wrote: »

Ah Dwork, we can all sleep sound in the notion that some of our fellow posters will always pay whatever taxes are written into law.

Even if it means neglecting the mortgage...

Losing the home to pay the family home tax makes sense. (if its the law)

I'd be more the Rebel type, tbh. Roof before RPT and all that.

Maudi

ZeroThreat wrote: »

too many lefty ULA/sinner radical types on boards.ie these days
, at least going by this thread....

its rumoured that fine gayl shrills are paid to "haunt"boards..obviously its true..

Geuze

I fully support a property tax.

I fully reject repaying the bank senior bondholders.

The 64bn cost of the banking crisis is not a justified debt of the Irish people. Even if Brian Len guaranteed the banks liabilities, we should have reneged on that guarantee.

It is not our debt.

But if we continue to run a fiscal deficit, overspending and undertaxing, then we need new taxes to cover that deficit.

Maudi

Geuze wrote: »

I fully support a property tax.

I fully reject repaying the bank senior bondholders.

The 64bn cost of the banking crisis is not a justified debt of the Irish people. Even if Brian Len guaranteed the banks liabilities, we should have reneged on that guarantee.

It is not our debt.

But if we continue to run a fiscal deficit, overspending and undertaxing, then we need new taxes to cover that deficit.

this post is so thick i just throw ceap in...

Dwork

Geuze wrote: »

I fully support a property tax.

I fully reject repaying the bank senior bondholders.

The 64bn cost of the banking crisis is not a justified debt of the Irish people. Even if Brian Len guaranteed the banks liabilities, we should have reneged on that guarantee.

It is not our debt.

But if we continue to run a fiscal deficit, overspending and undertaxing, then we need new taxes to cover that deficit.

I'll send you my bill. You can fully support it. "We" aren't spending too much. "They" are. "We" don't want to pay for "they".

Tar.Aldarion

I'm surprised they don't have penalties laid out.. Fines etc

Banjo String

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I'm surprised they don't have penalties laid out.. Fines etc

I'm not.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

You think married couples do not have joint responsibility for their tax affairs and that hiding your true marital situation from Revenue is something other than tax dodging?

I have no idea why you haven't claimed Jobseekers as you were eligible when you were made redundant as you could have claimed for one year regardless of your husbands income.

You seem a bit all over the place when it comes to your financial affairs, trying to pull the wool over Revenue's eyes probably isn't the best path.

Username 123 is just winding you up.

darkhorse

seamus wrote: »

There is no moral justification for opposing a legal tax by not paying it. The law is democratic, therefore you change it by consensus, not by disobedience.

Does democratic mean being told which way to vote. If so, I guess you're right.

Geuze

Dwork wrote: »

I'll send you my bill. You can fully support it. "We" aren't spending too much. "They" are. "We" don't want to pay for "they".

In a democracy, they is me and you. Me and you are overspending and undertaxing.

My parents earn 50k and pay 2.5k in tax, that is 5%. That is way too low, we can't afford such low income taxes.

Geuze

Maudi wrote: »

this post is so thick i just throw ceap in...

I don't understand your comment. You mention the word "ceap". That word isn't familiar to me. Can you perhaps explain further?

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Their party operates a property tax in the North.

Do the people up north get anything in return?

Geuze

At this point, it's clear that property taxes are a sensible response to the massive decline in tax revenues in Ireland. They are steady and predictable sources of revenue.

As we all pay much less tax, due to the huge fall in incomes, then the bad news is that each of us must pay a bit more.

Now, in my opinion, there should be four income tax rates, at 20, 30, 40 and 50%.

darkhorse

Geuze wrote: »

My parents earn 50k and pay 2.5k in tax, that is 5%. That is way too low.

I'm sure that they are very proud of you anyway. You're right, that is way too low, You do the right thing.

darkhorse

Geuze wrote: »

At this point, it's clear that property taxes are a sensible response to the massive decline in tax revenues in Ireland. They are steady and predictable sources of income.

A NEW report on household income in this country claims more than 90,000 people are “working poor” and that as many as 630,000 are below the poverty line.
Social Justice Ireland’s annual Socio-Economic Review also claims at least 210,000 to 220,000 children are living in households that experience poverty.

Shall I pass on this information to these people or will you?

darkhorse

Geuze wrote: »

Me and you are overspending.

Not only am I not overspending, but my family and I have been eating horse burgers for the past several years.

drdeadlift

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Gardai issue threat to every motorist in Ireland, to issue fines if they break the speed limit.

Someone get this guy a stage

cartell_best

The only two things we are certain of in life, are death and taxes.....

Dwork

Geuze wrote: »

In a democracy, they is me and you. Me and you are overspending and undertaxing.

My parents earn 50k and pay 2.5k in tax, that is 5%. That is way too low, we can't afford such low income taxes.

Err, yeah. I pay that a week in PRSI. "Me and you" can fcuk off with their overspending and undertaxing. I got none of the overspend and I seem to have also fallen on the blindside of the undertaxing bit too.

Wibbs

Geuze wrote: »

At this point, it's clear that property taxes are a sensible response to the massive decline in tax revenues in Ireland. They are steady and predictable sources of revenue.

As we all pay much less tax, due to the huge fall in incomes, then the bad news is that each of us must pay a bit more.

If we can pay "a bit more" G. It's a big if. Many thousands of people out there quite simply can't. With some the money is very tight and they just about have their heads above water, but this(and coming charges) will drown them. Others are already drowning. Actually and consistently broke and no amount of MABS help can fix it as the money is quite simply not there. You can't take trousers off a bare arse.

I know too many families in these kind of situations. And these people weren't profligate nutjobs in the "boom" either. Ordinary "lower middle class" folks many with kids and they're in real trouble. One woman I know actually said to me that she often thinks what if her or her husband died, because then the kids and the surviving partner would be OK because of the insurance payout. This was said quite matter of fact and TBH it chilled me that some are thinking like that.

Now sure there are people who were living like millionaires on ordinary salaries and "cheap" credit and now the piper is looking to be paid. I know a couple of those and those I have far less sympathy for. However the banking/financial checks and balances that should have been in play failed them and the rest of us. They gave people this money when it should have been clear to Stevie fcuking Wonder that they had no hope of paying the loans back. That's before we look at the developers etc who were doing the same with billions. I'm sure the financial regulator(s) involved are still in jobs or on nice pensions thanks very much, but those they let down, actually fcuk let down, those they betrayed are feeling the pinch.

Now, in my opinion, there should be four income tax rates, at 20, 30, 40 and 50%.

Which will just increase wealth flight out of the country at those higher values.

I don't have any solutions. I'm plain outa ideas TBH, but surely there is a better way, because - and I'm really not trying to be dramatic here - I can see real social and personal problems coming down the line. I already know of two middle aged men who have hung themselves over the pressure and I can't see it getting any better.