revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

Mr. teddywinkles

No offence but what Iv read on here people seem to be very compliant with the government to the point of just seeming meak and call themselves law abiding citizens. There could be a very big scare with this tax when house valuation (valuation is not just size but location too id reckon) is completed and your handed your first proper property tax bill.
The scary thing is we are reducing the deficeit but still a long way off.
Dont be fooled. Could be a lot more taxes introduced over the next few years.

clairefontaine

There is so much double tax in this country to start with. Now you have the USC, motor tax,tv tax, tax at the petrol pump, water tax, poop tax, tax tax tax tax, all to subsidize a legally questionable bail out as in nationalising private loans.

You will not see a penny of this tax going to local services like schools and roads. This is pure bailout money.

The celtic tiger did not hit all parts of Ireland and yet all of Ireland now has to pay with their pounds of flesh for this basically financial game.

Wibbs is right too- you are going to see some serious problems down the line.

relax carry on

Has anyone actually looked at the calculation tool on the Revenue website to have a rough idea how much they will be expected to pay? I wonder how many homes will be in the 0 to 100000 group at 45 euro?

http://www.revenue.ie/lpt_reckoner/index_en.html

Grayson

sfwcork wrote: »

Its quite funny how yesterday when she was on the radio she was saying how fast they will turn it all around

When I rang them 3 wks ago to tell them they owe me cash I had to send off email proof..when then takes 6-8 weeks to be seen and then further time to be acted upon

I rang to get copies of my tax returns. They arrived 3 days later with a cheque. I didn't even know I'd overpaid.

Banjo String

Grayson wrote: »

I rang to get copies of my tax returns. They arrived 3 days later with a cheque. I didn't even know I'd overpaid.

Funny that, you'd think they'd have told you.

Its alright for them to owe you money, but its court and bank account raids when we owe them.

Phill Ewinn

Anyone interested in hiring guard dogs, security guards, out of work covicts with a history of violent behaviour? Reasonable rates.

ilovesleep

Wibbs, you wrote it well. All these taxes and charges will lead to less money and income that has already dwindled and it will lead to more unemployment.

clairefontaine

To add to that, there is less money going into the economy because people are saving it all to emigrate.

ilovesleep

Geuze wrote: »

At this point, it's clear that property taxes are a sensible response to the massive decline in tax revenues in Ireland. They are steady and predictable sources of revenue.

As we all pay much less tax, due to the huge fall in incomes, then the bad news is that each of us must pay a bit more.

Now, in my opinion, there should be four income tax rates, at 20, 30, 40 and 50%.

But the uk has a property tax and they have the same problems as us with a deficit.

Phill Ewinn

ilovesleep wrote: »

But the uk has a property tax and they have the same problems as us with a deficit.

UK have control of their currency, some dignity and a couple more honest politicians.

the purple tin

Screw you, Feehily. You'll never take me alive!

signed - Mick

cheapy2006

sad thing is there's more than likely gonna be thousands in line to pay this criminal charge, all pointing at you and calling you a criminal.
that's how low we've sunk in this country, and how much more dearly we hold the interests of the gombeen than we do the generations to come.
as my da always says-"We're a bastard nation!"

ilovesleep

cheapy2006 wrote: »

sad thing is there's more than likely gonna be thousands in line to pay this criminal charge, all pointing at you and calling you a criminal.
that's how low we've sunk in this country, and how much more dearly we hold the interests of the gombeen than we do the generations to come.
as my da always says-"We're a bastard nation!"

All those looking down on those who can't or won't pay it for whatever purpose/reason will be coming from comfortable positions.

Your dad is right. He sounds cool.

ilovesleep

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

The scary thing is we are reducing the deficeit but still a long way off.
Dont be fooled. Could be a lot more taxes introduced over the next few years.

That's it. We're still something like 12 billion in deficit.

A billion is a million million.

We're no where near closing this gap nor will we ever be.

Closing this gap would involve slashing social welfare in half and the pay of public workers also.

professore

sfwcork wrote: »

Its quite funny how yesterday when she was on the radio she was saying how fast they will turn it all around

When I rang them 3 wks ago to tell them they owe me cash I had to send off email proof..when then takes 6-8 weeks to be seen and then further time to be acted upon

If you're a business try missing a vat payment - bailiffs letter sent a week later.

seamus

ilovesleep wrote: »

A billion is a million million.

A thousand million.

professore

SamHall wrote: »

How you reckon it would be fairer is beyond me.

Hard to believe their are many in Ireland without a TV/radio in their homes.

I know a pensioner (relation of mine) whose daily news and entertainment come from the newspaper he buys each day. Or the farmers journal he gets from time to time.

Should he pay this broadcasting charge too?

Yes

Celly Smunt

ilovesleep wrote: »

That's it. We're still something like 12 billion in deficit.

A billion is a million million.

A billion is a thousand million in Ireland.

spank_inferno

ilovesleep wrote: »

A billion is a million million.

Just to advise, that is the "old billion"

1 Billion as we use it today is 1 Thousand Million.


So, give or take, the government are 12 thousand million in defecit year on year.

And that is aside from any monies given to banks.

The fact that the crazies here are oblivious to this 12 billion gap is irresponsible and frankly stupid.

Wicklowrider

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Our patriot dead must be rolling in their graves.

Is that what Michael Collins beat Oliver Cromwell at the Battle of Clontarf for?

Do you wear huge shoes and have a painted on smile and red nose? That is how you come across in your posts.

frfintanstack

ilovesleep wrote: »

That's it. We're still something like 12 billion in deficit.

A billion is a million million.

We're no where near closing this gap nor will we ever be.

Closing this gap would involve slashing social welfare in half and the pay of public workers also.

amazing analysis.

according to your statement we are borrowing 2.6million per person!!!

about as good as the rest of your "analysis" :rolleyes:

mccarthy37

Wibbs wrote: »

If we can pay "a bit more" G. It's a big if. Many thousands of people out there quite simply can't. With some the money is very tight and they just about have their heads above water, but this(and coming charges) will drown them. Others are already drowning. Actually and consistently broke and no amount of MABS help can fix it as the money is quite simply not there. You can't take trousers off a bare arse.

I know too many families in these kind of situations. And these people weren't profligate nutjobs in the "boom" either. Ordinary "lower middle class" folks many with kids and they're in real trouble. One woman I know actually said to me that she often thinks what if her or her husband died, because then the kids and the surviving partner would be OK because of the insurance payout. This was said quite matter of fact and TBH it chilled me that some are thinking like that.

Now sure there are people who were living like millionaires on ordinary salaries and "cheap" credit and now the piper is looking to be paid. I know a couple of those and those I have far less sympathy for. However the banking/financial checks and balances that should have been in play failed them and the rest of us. They gave people this money when it should have been clear to Stevie fcuking Wonder that they had no hope of paying the loans back. That's before we look at the developers etc who were doing the same with billions. I'm sure the financial regulator(s) involved are still in jobs or on nice pensions thanks very much, but those they let down, actually fcuk let down, those they betrayed are feeling the pinch.

Which will just increase wealth flight out of the country at those higher values.

I don't have any solutions. I'm plain outa ideas TBH, but surely there is a better way, because - and I'm really not trying to be dramatic here - I can see real social and personal problems coming down the line. I already know of two middle aged men who have hung themselves over the pressure and I can't see it getting any better.

You say you don't have any solutions but I will say this how well you have explained the plight of so many of the ordinary people of Ireland. This post should be read by every politician in this country. This present government are so out of touch with those said people it beggar's belief.
You are bang on when you say the money is not there. As it is this country is crippled in taxes, I could insure and tax my car in England for the cost of what I pay in taxing it here for. Work is really drying up because people cant afford home improvements and anyway what incentive is there now to extend or renovate your house when you will be penalized in more taxes. Building material in some cases are one third cheaper in England than Ireland and all we hear from government circles is that things are improving. Sometime's when one of Enda's henchmen come on the Tele to threaten or boast how our lot is improving I feel like sticking my boot through the Tele but I cant afford to.
Here's something else I could not believe I was hearing Michael Noonan in the Dail saying if they have Sky television they can afford property tax and then he went on to cut the ground from under Sky saying it was basically rubbish. Now I wonder how many are employed by Sky in Ireland did it not occur to him if everybody discontinue there account how many more will that throw on the dole. I don't have Sky by the way as I cant afford it at present.

Wibbs

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Work is really drying up because people cant afford home improvements and anyway what incentive is there now to extend or renovate your house when you will be penalized in more taxes.

Similar situation to a bloody good mate of mine. It looked like he had a full enough January, but jobs have pretty much all been cancelled with all the talk of this tax(this was the reason given when a reason was forthcoming). It's hitting other areas too as people start to think they could be hit for 3-4-500 quid this year and double that next and with a water charge on top.

dirtyden

There is a danger that we could regress to the state this country was in for much of the 80s, where the lack of growth and high taxation crippled the country for a decade. Things are bad but they could get worse. The country needs a stimulus to go along with taxation but i am not sure this government have the backbone/innovation to lead that.

drdeadlift

mrsbyrne wrote: »

The homeowners have already been identified. 1.6 million of us. The letter and the form to complete will be arriving to your door addressed personally to you sam hall, 123 dunmoving street ballygobackwards, in the next 4 weeks. If you do not respond to the letter in the given time, Revenue will proceed to put a charge against your house for the amount of the estimate they give you. they will simply access your wages or your company accounts or your DSP payments and take the money, plus a penalty.
There will be no appeals and no correspondence of any kind. There will be no negotiations entered into or discretion used.
Anyone who has ever dealt with revenue will tell you that this is how they operate.

This is a perfect case of TRYING to tax your way out of a recession,i feel for anyone working in revenue,**** will begin to get personal between civilians once the dollars in their pockets really begin to dwindle..

ilovesleep

seamus wrote: »

A thousand million.

Cheers for clearing that up. I was in a fit thinking where are they going to find a million million by 12 or 14.

Le_Dieux

bastados wrote: »

"The revolution is coming" - Deputy Joe Higgins

Joe who? He's no better than the rest of them, be a TD for 5 years and then he's on a good earner for life.

FFS, the entire system is wrong. Joe Higgins should rather STF up!!!

Le_Dieux

drdeadlift wrote: »

This is a perfect case of TRYING to tax your way out of a recession,i feel for anyone working in revenue,**** will begin to get personal between civilians once the dollars in their pockets really begin to dwindle..

And remember, there is still the water charge coming down the 'road'.:mad:

tcsystems

Would some of the sheep in this country look in their pockets.
we get fleeced before we get paid.
Then we pay 23% OF ANY REMAINING MONEY OVER LIKE SHEEP as vat.
We get hammered for a carbon tax on heating bills.car tax.
And if you have any money left at all then there is the soon to be property tax.
After that there will be water rates. and vat on that too.
Lets not forget the tv licence. Its the law.
Would it not be easier for the Sheep of ireland to simply work for food stamps and let the goverment. The bankers and the troika take all the money.
Work it out.
If you are lucky enough to have a job. Any job thats worth keeping.
Say you get 1000 a week gross live in dublin, own a car and have a modest house, semi detached at 300 to 350k
Tax/ social contributions etc take home 550 if you are lucky
You buy food for your family 150 to 200 per week. vat 46 tax take so far 496.
Modest car fiesta. car tax 7 euro a week tax so far. 503.
You need clothes /shoes petrol. god forbid a beer. 150 spent tax so far.536
You need to visit the dentist or doctor . forget that.
Car payments 50 euro tax so far 547.
Mortgage 200 a week. vat is it charged.
now your property tax at average 400 to 600 per house. 10 per week tax 557 so far.
water rates.
heating 50 per week . vat 11 plus 5 carbon tax tax so far 573.
Where does it end.
look in your pockets sheep. look deep and if we dont soon wake up the its the law mantra will soon have all of the people of this land slaves again.

Le_Dieux

seamus wrote: »

You'll be waiting. There is nobody at the moment who will scrap the property tax if they get elected. They'll see the financial figures and quietly just leave the property tax there.

Hmmm, I wonder. I heard yesterday on the radio that car sales were dramatically down this year compared to last year ( I have no proof, only what I heard on the radio). This means that VAT intake from the sale of cars has dropped. The item on the radio speculated that it might have something to do with 2013. For me, it's because of people have zipped up their pockets and are spending SFA as they are scared over this upcoming 'tax'.

Are the govt too fcuking stupid not to realise what they will gain from this PT will be more than offset by a drop off elsewhere?

Of course, they don't give a shít as their pensions will still be there in 2 years for them.

Le_Dieux

seamus wrote: »

The figure stands at around 470,000 now, many of whom are being quietly brought to court, but the HHC was designed with this in mind, so the charge will remain on all of these properties until they are sold.
That's not the moral high road. You'd be no better than someone claiming disability benefit when they're fully able, i.e. just another leech.

PROOF please!!

FYI, I am one of those who haven't paid. Nor have I received ONE 'reminder' or correspondance over the non payment.

ilovesleep

dirtyden wrote: »

There is a danger that we could regress to the state this country was in for much of the 80s, where the lack of growth and high taxation crippled the country for a decade. Things are bad but they could get worse. The country needs a stimulus to go along with taxation but i am not sure this government have the backbone/innovation to lead that.

For so many people, we are back in the 80s and there so many people doing well, they are deluded into thinking that we're not here already.

In relation to the stimulus package, that's needed for many countries across europe and not just Ireland.

Cantona's Collars

FG blamed FF for getting us into this mess & told us they'd do the opposite to what went before but now are blaming the Troika for these taxes even though the Troika didn't actually tell them to impose all these charges,they were just a recommendation if things weren't improving on the countries repayments.We are meeting these yet FG are imposing taxes on those who can't afford to pay.

Dragging the country back 20 to 30 years is all this government are achieving.It's like Robin Hood with the Sheriff piling on tax after tax but we have nobody to get it back from the rich.

What of those stupid enough to have paid the HHC,will this be accounted for when the Revenue send out their letters or will they be hit with a double whammy of charges,nobody in Government mentioned this.

Bullseye1

FF got us into the mess but both Labour and FG did nothing while in opposition to highlight the issues which have brought the country to its knees. Many of their TDs were sitting on committes and quangos. I don't see how they can sit on their high horse. In fact they are both responsible for finishing the country off. It's a pity the opposition consist of FFail and the communist part that is SF.

bgrizzley

Of course one may just pay this tax now that ones grounds have been exempted wot wot wot...


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/29/article-2093318-1180FD4E000005DC-845_468x286.jpg

Le_Dieux

Bullseye1 wrote: »

FF got us into the mess but both Labour and FG did nothing while in opposition to highlight the issues which have brought the country to its knees. Many of their TDs were sitting on committes and quangos. I don't see how they can sit on their high horse. In fact they are both responsible for finishing the country off. It's a pity the opposition consist of FFail and the communist part that is SF.

Didn't bullsh*tter kenny say when coming into power he would do away with the kwangos or something to that effect.

Where are we now? On the HHC thread ( when it wass open) I recall there were still something like 450-500 alive and draining the system at the last count.

On the options for opposition, I wish Róisín Shortall would start a party, the other options leave me full of apprehension.

Someone help us please, because we sure as hell don't have politicians who can!!!

seamus

Le_Dieux wrote: »

PROOF please!!

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-still-owed-47m-in-household-charge-fees-584267.html

Mr. teddywinkles

tcsystems wrote: »

Would some of the sheep in this country look in their pockets.
we get fleeced before we get paid.
Then we pay 23% OF ANY REMAINING MONEY OVER LIKE SHEEP as vat.
We get hammered for a carbon tax on heating bills.car tax.
And if you have any money left at all then there is the soon to be property tax.
After that there will be water rates. and vat on that too.
Lets not forget the tv licence. Its the law.
Would it not be easier for the Sheep of ireland to simply work for food stamps and let the goverment. The bankers and the troika take all the money.
Work it out.
If you are lucky enough to have a job. Any job thats worth keeping.
Say you get 1000 a week gross live in dublin, own a car and have a modest house, semi detached at 300 to 350k
Tax/ social contributions etc take home 550 if you are lucky
You buy food for your family 150 to 200 per week. vat 46 tax take so far 496.
Modest car fiesta. car tax 7 euro a week tax so far. 503.
You need clothes /shoes petrol. god forbid a beer. 150 spent tax so far.536
You need to visit the dentist or doctor . forget that.
Car payments 50 euro tax so far 547.
Mortgage 200 a week. vat is it charged.
now your property tax at average 400 to 600 per house. 10 per week tax 557 so far.
water rates.
heating 50 per week . vat 11 plus 5 carbon tax tax so far 573.
Where does it end.
look in your pockets sheep. look deep and if we dont soon wake up the its the law mantra will soon have all of the people of this land slaves again.

Listening to radio other day maintaining we pay the highest tax on our fuel in the world. True or not, seems excessive enough to be true. Roads seem to be getting more perferated too.
Im not advocating any milatant action or riots here but it does annoy me that we seem to take it and not voice our concerns more in this country and let our government and europe know we are a disgruntled nation not all responsible for the shady dealings and policies of the past decade or two.

Fr_Dougal

seamus wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-still-owed-47m-in-household-charge-fees-584267.html

Where in the article does it say anyone is being brought to court?

Geuze

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Listening to radio other day maintaining we pay the highest tax on our fuel in the world. True or not, seems excessive enough to be true.

Our fuel taxes are not the highest in the EU, no.

Our social insurance is quite low.

Overall, our taxes are below average, or close to the average, across the EU.

clairefontaine

Geuze wrote: »

Our fuel taxes are not the highest in the EU, no.

Our social insurance is quite low.

Overall, our taxes are below average, or close to the average, across the EU.

Electricity is one of the highest in the EU.

Phone tax is at 22%. Why is the phone taxed as a luxury in this day and age?

Fuel at the pump is on par with France, but in France they don't pay motor tax on top of what they pay at the pump and they have superb roads.

I busted a shock on the way into an NCT testing center because the pot holes were like a moon crater landed in the road up to it.

Geuze

Yes, electricity prices are high, but that's not directly due to high taxes.

There is no such thing as phone tax. I'd say you are referring to 23% VAT on telecom. The 23% VAT is levied on many goods and services.

Yes, other countries don't have car purchase taxes. Some do, some don't. We do, known as VRT.


Irish PRSI = 4%, French = 20% +.

Banjo String

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, electricity prices are high, but that's not directly due to high taxes.

There is no such thing as phone tax. I'd say you are referring to 23% VAT on telecom. The 23% VAT is levied on many goods and services.

Yes, other countries don't have car purchase taxes. Some do, some don't. We do, known as VRT.


Irish PRSI = 4%, French = 20% +.

How is the French USC being received over there?

clairefontaine

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, electricity prices are high, but that's not directly due to high taxes.

There is no such thing as phone tax. I'd say you are referring to 23% VAT on telecom. The 23% VAT is levied on many goods and services.

Yes, other countries don't have car purchase taxes. Some do, some don't. We do, known as VRT.


Irish PRSI = 4%, French = 20% +.

France doesn't have a USC and it also sees its money going into roads,s chools and public services, not a black hole bailout.

Electricity prices push up the price of everything and the government collects 13% on the total bill from each customer.

23% is way too high for the phone.

darkhorse

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't have any solutions. I'm plain outa ideas TBH, but surely there is a better way

Do you think that one solution could possibly be Direct Democracy, Wibbs.

One way to help achieve an economic recovery would be to address one of the other highest priorities, one which would again reduce the severity of the subsequent issues: the exploitation of Ireland’s natural resources. Ireland has an estimated 1.5 trillion euros of oil and gas in national waters which is being given away for free to non-national companies. A renegotiation of the terms of these contracts along the lines of other oil-rich nations, at the very least, would create a large revenue stream for the country which would massively increase our ability to address the other pressing issues which require funds, such as job creation, the health service, education, gardai, etc.

Just one question, what group in the country does it suit most not to allow the citizens have direct democracy?

Geuze

clairefontaine wrote: »

France doesn't have a USC and it also sees its money going into roads,s chools and public services, not a black hole bailout.

Electricity prices push up the price of everything and the government collects 13% on the total bill from each customer.

23% is way too high for the phone.

I fully agree with you that the 64bn cost of the banking crisis is sickening. The 30bn into IBRC was pure waste and loss.

I fully agree that electricity prices are too high here. That's not due to tax, though. If I was in power, I would order the ESB to cut prices 10% straight away.

And, yes, the high elec costs put up overheads for all businesses.

I also agree that 23% VAT is a bit high. Across the EU, rates are from maybe 18% to a max of 27% in Hungary.

Germany = 19
UK = 20
NL = 21

I suggest 20%.

Geuze

clairefontaine wrote: »

France doesn't have a USC

Note that the USC is not a new tax.

It replaced two former taxes - the Health levy and the Income levy.

For some people, they pay less in USC compared to what they paid in the two levies.

Although it is true that the USC kicks in at lower wages than the levies did.

darkhorse

cheapy2006 wrote: »

sad thing is there's more than likely gonna be thousands in line to pay this criminal charge, all pointing at you and calling you a criminal.
that's how low we've sunk in this country, and how much more dearly we hold the interests of the gombeen than we do the generations to come.
as my da always says-"We're a bastard nation!"

Agreed. Also, there will be hundreds of thousands of people who just cannot afford it. One of the biggest impacts of this upcoming(unjust) tax, as I, and many others have said, is that it is going to criminalize so many people, who, otherwise may never have had a brush with the law in their entire lives. The government, of course, know this, and it don't even seem to be an issue with them.

darkhorse

ilovesleep wrote: »

That's it. We're still something like 12 billion in deficit.

A billion is a million million.

We're no where near closing this gap nor will we ever be.

Closing this gap would involve slashing social welfare in half and the pay of public workers also.

Or discovering oil, or something like that.

ilovesleep

Just in relation to electricity prices, I had a man coming to my door from Airelectricity (spelling) promoting their service and saying that their service cheaper than the esb.

I don't know anything about the company or anything about Airelectricity (spelling) but that seems promising.

Did anybody switch over to this?

If everyone switched over in protest and in spite of esb, airelectricy will be doing great. Prices will drop, surely? Not only that but we may get another benefit - collasping the state company that is esb that is over inflated.

Like here in galway, we have something called GoBus, a fantastic bus service from galway to dublin will brillant cheap prices. A single ticket from galway to dublin is 10 euro. Yet 10 euro with bus eireann won't get you very far. It will get you from Galway city to Clarinbridge or Galway to Moycullen, at a guess.

States companys are scandalous.