revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

ilovesleep

darkhorse wrote: »

Agreed. Also, there will be hundreds of thousands of people who just cannot afford it. One of the biggest impacts of this upcoming(unjust) tax, as I, and many others have said, is that it is going to criminalize so many people, who, otherwise may never have had a brush with the law in their entire lives. The government, of course, know this, and it don't even seem to be an issue with them.

It's going to push so many people into so much trouble. There's water charges also.

Maudi

Geuze wrote: »

Our fuel taxes are not the highest in the EU, no.

Our social insurance is quite low.

Overall, our taxes are below average, or close to the average, across the EU.

geuze plant ignore

mfceiling

ilovesleep wrote: »

Just in relation to electricity prices, I had a man coming to my door from Airelectricity (spelling) promoting their service and saying that their service cheaper than the esb.

I don't know anything about the company or anything about Airelectricity (spelling) but that seems promising.

Did anybody switch over to this?

If everyone switched over in protest and in spite of esb, airelectricy will be doing great. Prices will drop, surely? Not only that but we may get another benefit - collasping the state company that is esb that is over inflated.

Like here in galway, we have something called GoBus, a fantastic bus service from galway to dublin will brillant cheap prices. A single ticket from galway to dublin is 10 euro. Yet 10 euro with bus eireann won't get you very far. It will get you from Galway city to Clarinbridge or Galway to Moycullen, at a guess.

States companys are scandalous.

I switched a few years ago but switched again as they were a disaster. Took gas and electric combined with them under direct debit. Got a call from them some months later telling me that they'd "forgot" to charge me for gas and would I like to pay them nearly 1000 for their mistake. Avoid.

ilovesleep

Do you our government doesn't have an ounce of compassion. So many people are in fear of their future's and the government can't even issue some reassurance and positivity that things will be well. Just using threats.

Something else is that each and every single one of them in government needs to lead by example - slashing their own incomes in half as an example. There's only one politician that I read about that's doing this and he's Luke Ming F. He's pumping his income back into roscommon.

seamus

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Where in the article does it say anyone is being brought to court?

Here's proof of that;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/first-cases-go-ahead-for-unpaid-household-charge-29116918.html

The wheels have come off the anti-HHC bus

ilovesleep

mfceiling wrote: »

I switched a few years ago but switched again as they were a disaster. Took gas and electric combined with them under direct debit. Got a call from them some months later telling me that they'd "forgot" to charge me for gas and would I like to pay them nearly 1000 for their mistake. Avoid.

Fcuk man! My great idea for a protest of sorts isn't all that great after all. Thanks for giving the warning.

Geuze

Maudi wrote: »

geuze plant ignore

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/product_details/publication?p_product_code=KS-SF-12-055

Ms2011

ilovesleep wrote: »

I don't know anything about the company or anything about Airelectricity (spelling) but that seems promising.

Did anybody switch over to this?

Yep I did, so far so good, but I regularly switch to whoever will give me the best deal.

Banjo String

seamus wrote: »

Here's proof of that;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/first-cases-go-ahead-for-unpaid-household-charge-29116918.html

Seamus, that case was well publicised.
You said their were cases appearing quietly.

Also, Mr Keegan (a landlord with multiple properties), what was the final outcome on that one?

seamus wrote: »

The wheels have come off the anti-HHC bus

The bus ceased to exist since Jan 1st this year old bean.

ilovesleep

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Didn't bullsh*tter kenny say when coming into power he would do away with the kwangos or something to that effect.

Where are we now? On the HHC thread ( when it wass open) I recall there were still something like 450-500 alive and draining the system at the last count.

On the options for opposition, I wish Róisín Shortall would start a party, the other options leave me full of apprehension.

Someone help us please, because we sure as hell don't have politicians who can!!!

How about setting up some sort of a boards.ie group. There are so many great people here on boards with some good credible ideas. Two such people I can think of are Sunflower and BlindJustice who post a lot in the slaveship thread.

Geuze

PNG image of tax revenues across the EU attached.

the groutch

ilovesleep wrote: »

A billion is a million million.

I see that free education the state gave you was money well spent

ilovesleep

the groutch wrote: »

I see that free education the state gave you was money well spent

I never did sums or maths using billions. I used lollipop sticks in baby and juniour infants and then went on to use my fingers in first class. Then it was money sums and reading clocks and shapes and sizes before moving onto multiplication and division and long division and things like that. Then in secondary school, it was algebra and other more completed stuff but nowhere did I deal with billions in school. Did I miss something along the way?

By the looks of it, the muinteorí in the dail didn't do much sums with billions, either, until they went dossing in the Dáil and the sh1t hit the fan on them.

The pay packets of the monkies in the Dáil is money well spent too, what do you think?

Lone Stone

i pay the homer tax

Le_Dieux

mfceiling wrote: »

I switched a few years ago but switched again as they were a disaster. Took gas and electric combined with them under direct debit. Got a call from them some months later telling me that they'd "forgot" to charge me for gas and would I like to pay them nearly 1000 for their mistake. Avoid.

Are we talking about airtricity? Or is aireletricity a wholly new company?

Wibbs

darkhorse wrote: »

Do you think that one solution could possibly be Direct Democracy, Wibbs.

I preface this with a warning/excuse as I've had a few ales supplied by a good mate of mine and it's been a while so I;m having to really concentrate on my typing... :)

Maybe your idea has merit DH, but like I said, I'm adrift here. No clue. Even less than usual, which is usually close enough to absolute zero to be fair. Better heads are most definitely needed. I reckon a bit of a standback, objective look at where we are might be a start. A new look at what is real value rather than "worth". A step back from the precipice of money is a commodity like any other. Yes it most certainly is, however I think we lost the run of ourselves on that score. A bit of Tulip mania with currency went on. It began to be it's own end rather than a means of rewarding real world "stuff" that people atually produced.. It got real abstract. Like I referred to earlier, folks living millionaire lifetstyles on average Joe and Jane money. Great for those betting agin or for the abstraction, but shíte for the rest of us who weren;t.

I say we need to beat the Chinese and the Indians at ther own game and they have it dead right. Produce things that have real and concrete world value and get rewarded that way. Abstract economics is like abstract art, some real insight crops up and is wlecomed, but it's mostly WTF to most of us and most of us like an oul Turner landscape. Or something...

Apologies folks it's been a while since I had this much ale so I beg your indulgence, as I do on an all too regular basis while sober. :) Move along, nothin to see here.

Man I know I'm gonna regert this in the morrow.

squod

ilovesleep wrote: »

Just in relation to electricity prices, I had a man coming to my door from Airelectricity (spelling) promoting their service and saying that their service cheaper than the esb.

I don't know anything about the company or anything about Airelectricity (spelling) but that seems promising.

Did anybody switch over to this?

If everyone switched over in protest and in spite of esb, airelectricy will be doing great. Prices will drop, surely? Not only that but we may get another benefit - collasping the state company that is esb that is over inflated.

Like here in galway, we have something called GoBus, a fantastic bus service from galway to dublin will brillant cheap prices. A single ticket from galway to dublin is 10 euro. Yet 10 euro with bus eireann won't get you very far. It will get you from Galway city to Clarinbridge or Galway to Moycullen, at a guess.

States companys are scandalous.

Nearly threw some young fella out of my garden selling for them the other day. You would not believe what I had to go through with them. Blacklisted, forever.

losthorizon

I have every intention of paying this tax. IMO one off housing should actually be taxed at a higher level. Thats my gripe.

Pretzill

I reside in a rural area and have paid water bills for years it's a resource I am happy to pay for, believe it or not water on tap is a luxury clean + reliable. Property tax offers no return it's an intangible tax that leaves a bitter taste, it harks to landlordism and money for others regardless of what the gov schills will protest here. I have bigger yearly bills house insurance for one - but will i lapse the insurance to pay for this? Some may - I am sick of the bullying by this government - hope I'm not alone. Death & taxes - certain but both can be swerved albeit temporarily

squod

the groutch wrote: »

I see that free education the state gave you was money well spent

In British English, a billion used to be equivalent to a million million (i.e. 1,000,000,000,000), while in American English it has always equated to a thousand million (i.e. 1,000,000,000). British English has now adopted the American figure, though, so that a billion equals a thousand million in both varieties of English.

The same sort of change has taken place with the meaning of trillion. In British English, a trillion used to mean a million million million (i.e. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000). Nowadays, it's generally held to be equivalent to a million million (1,000,000,000,000), as it is in American English.

History?

Le_Dieux

seamus wrote: »

Here's proof of that;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/first-cases-go-ahead-for-unpaid-household-charge-29116918.html

The wheels have come off the anti-HHC bus

Still absolutly no proof people are quietly being brought to court.

Wheels falling off the no campaign? Again...not sure what wheels you are referring to? As I said, I have not paid ( nor will i) and have not got one letter of correspondance relating to the HHC in the post. And if I do? recycling bin straight away, exactly where this govt will ( hopefully) go at the end of their term

squod

Pretzill wrote: »

- hope I'm not alone. Death & taxes - certain but both can be swerved albeit temporarily

Still don't know anyone that's paying it. Before anyone cries REVENUE......... you can't take €600 from €0.

darkhorse

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Someone help us please, because we sure as hell don't have politicians who can!!!

Direct Democracy is looking good.

Tar.Aldarion

squod wrote: »

Still don't know anyone that's paying it. Before anyone cries REVENUE......... you can't take €600 from €0.

What does that mean, that you somehow will avoid dealing with revenue for the rest of your life?

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Still absolutly no proof people are quietly being brought to court.

Wheels falling off the no campaign? Again...not sure what wheels you are referring to? As I said, I have not paid ( nor will i) and have not got one letter of correspondance relating to the HHC in the post. And if I do? recycling bin straight away, exactly where this govt will ( hopefully) go at the end of their term

So if he posts any link then it won't be quiet :pac:
Do they not take it directly eventually? I'm not sure how they are going about it.

darkhorse

Geuze wrote: »

Our fuel taxes are not the highest in the EU, no.

Our social insurance is quite low.

Overall, our taxes are below average, or close to the average, across the EU.

Thanks for your very re-assuring post. Phew!! Glad things are'nt as bad as I thought. Must be a fcuking hole in my trouser pocket.

ilovesleep

darkhorse wrote: »

Direct Democracy is looking good.

I had to google direct democracy and I liked what I read, a lot.
Ireland has so much problems in the politicial field and direct democracy would be great. It won't solve all our problems but it will go a long way. We vote in a party based on policies that are lies and empty promises and false information as in the current crop got in by telling people what they thought they wanted to hear, instead of honesty. Once elected we don't get a say in anything and our lives can be impacted on decisions they make that wasn't contained in any proposals or manifestos, ie we didn't vote for it. An example would be the off license law for closure at 10pm.

How would Ireland implement such a system? It will effect and have an impact on the current crowd sitting so I don't see them making any changes.

darkhorse

Wibbs wrote: »

I preface this with a warning/excuse as I've had a few ales supplied by a good mate of mine and it's been a while so I;m having to really concentrate on my typing... :)

Maybe your idea has merit DH, but like I said, I'm adrift here. No clue. Even less than usual, which is usually close enough to absolute zero to be fair. Better heads are most definitely needed. I reckon a bit of a standback, objective look at where we are might be a start. A new look at what is real value rather than "worth". A step back from the precipice of money is a commodity like any other. Yes it most certainly is, however I think we lost the run of ourselves on that score. A bit of Tulip mania with currency went on. It began to be it's own end rather than a means of rewarding real world "stuff" that people atually produced.. It got real abstract. Like I referred to earlier, folks living millionaire lifetstyles on average Joe and Jane money. Great for those betting agin or for the abstraction, but shíte for the rest of us who weren;t.

I say we need to beat the Chinese and the Indians at ther own game and they have it dead right. Produce things that have real and concrete world value and get rewarded that way. Abstract economics is like abstract art, some real insight crops up and is wlecomed, but it's mostly WTF to most of us and most of us like an oul Turner landscape. Or something...

Apologies folks it's been a while since I had this much ale so I beg your indulgence, as I do on an all too regular basis while sober. :) Move along, nothin to see here.

Man I know I'm gonna regert this in the morrow.

I'm on the barcardi meself. I never regret it. Anyway, I'll talk to ya when we're shober.:D:D

darkhorse

SamHall wrote: »

The bus ceased to exist since Jan 1st this year old bean.

You, Sir, just reminded of a song that I used to sing to my Grandson some years back. It was, "The Wheels of the Bus go Round and Round".:)

The collector of the taxes says "any more fares, any more fares, any more fares"

darkhorse

losthorizon wrote: »

I have every intention of paying this tax. IMO one off housing should actually be taxed at a higher level. Thats my gripe.

What's a government politician doing up so late at night.:eek:

darkhorse

ilovesleep wrote: »

I had to google direct democracy and I liked what I read, a lot.
Ireland has so much problems in the politicial field and direct democracy would be great. It won't solve all our problems but it will go a long way. We vote in a party based on policies that are lies and empty promises and false information as in the current crop got in by telling people what they thought they wanted to hear, instead of honesty. Once elected we don't get a say in anything and our lives can be impacted on decisions they make that wasn't contained in any proposals or manifestos, ie we didn't vote for it. An example would be the off license law for closure at 10pm.

How would Ireland implement such a system? It will effect and have an impact on the current crowd sitting so I don't see them making any changes.

I have to say, I'm encouraged somewhat to hear from some posters (one of which is yourself) that realize the government actually are employed by us, and not the other way round.;)

mfceiling

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The collector of the taxes says "any more fares, any more fares, any more fares"

Really should be "any more fair"

Banjo String

the groutch wrote: »

I see that free education the state gave you was money well spent

When did ths state start providing free education?

You're aware off book fees, and college fees...... Right?

stoneill

What if everyone sent back the letter to revenue saying that "I don't own the property - Bertie Ahern does".

bgrizzley

SamHall wrote: »

When did ths state start providing free education?

You're aware off book fees, and college fees...... Right?

Lol free education. Going by some you would think that irish politicians have been dipping into their family fortunes to educate the illiterate peasants

from_atozinc

Last year, we had this property tax of 100 Euro (gettin a blank here but think was called " household charge" tax ) and as we know only a certain percentage paid it.

Are the government trying to get everyone to pay this 100 Euro first before proceeding with the new tax or wha ?

How do they think the people that haven't paid the above 100 euro are now going to pay the new tax.

Wibbs

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

What does that mean, that you somehow will avoid dealing with revenue for the rest of your life?

TA I think they mean that some, quite the number of people out there will simply not have enough money to pay it(and other charges coming down the line). Like I said earlier you can't take trousers off a bare arse and there are a lot of bare arses out there. I certainly know a few and OK that's a tiny set of Irish people around my age, but I doubt I'm unusual in knowing a few.

Sure there are some deferment options for people in that position, however if they defer for say three or four years they're likely screwed in that their family home is in hock to the revenue(on top of a mortgage), with interest, cos if you can't pay for a few years what are the odds you can find the money to pay back the deferment? As it is more than 1 in 10 mortgage holders are in arrears for more than three months. Nearly 2 in 10 buy to let mortgages are in arrears for the same time period. IIRC overall it comes to over one hundred and fifty thousand Irish households/families are in arrears. These are truly staggering figures to me and something has got to give.

I can certainly see a second bigger wave of recession hitting. We were somewhat "protected" from the reality of the situation in the first wave with some availability of credit(the same credit that fooked us in the first place), but that's running or has run out. I saw that with some people. They were going broke but their credit cards were still active and that lulled them into a false sense of security. Bloody false considering the levels of interest on same. Usury by any other name. One mate of mine behind on his mortgage actually had the bank suggest he pay his mortgage from his credit card. Ehhhh wut? Luckily he doesn't have a CC.

Handy way of getting in death duties too if old people can't afford to pay. Though the NI deferment scheme showed they won't use it. Only 21 pensioners took up the offer so they closed the scheme after two years. If similar happens here that's a load of pensioners already strapped for cash that will be hit even more.

darkhorse wrote: »

I'm on the barcardi meself. I never regret it. Anyway, I'll talk to ya when we're shober.:D:D

Oh my bloody head. :mad::o:)

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Last year, we had this property tax of 100 Euro (gettin a blank here but think was called " household charge" tax ) and as we know only a certain percentage paid it.

Are the government trying to get everyone to pay this 100 Euro first before proceeding with the new tax or wha ?

How do they think the people that haven't paid the above 100 euro are now going to pay the new tax.

I was listening to the woman from Revenue on the last word. I am sure she said that if you hadn't already paid the HHC, you had until July to pay it. 130 with the interest? If you didn't pay it by that date, the charge would be 200 and the Revenue would collect it in the same way as property tax.

I can't remember the cut-off date in July and I may be slightly off with the amounts but that was the gist of it. Feckers have covered every conceivable angle on this one.

Banjo String

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I was listening to the woman from Revenue on the last word. I am sure she said that if you hadn't already paid the HHC, you had until July to pay it. 130 with the interest? If you didn't pay it by that date, the charge would be 200 and the Revenue would collect it in the same way as property tax.

I can't remember the cut-off date in July and I may be slightly off with the amounts but that was the gist of it. Feckers have covered every conceivable angle on this one.

Watch the black economy thrive from July on so.

Got a builder calling? Ask him for a cash rate.
Mechanic? Same thing.

If you're close enough proximity to the north, do any possible purchasing there you can, lower vat rate, and lower excise duties on most products.

If you're not a paye worker, simply skim the value of the property tax off your declarations to revenue.

Do a few jobs that pay cash yourself also.

Together, this tax can be defeated, or at the very least be more transparent as to where its going, and some accountability towards the services provided by it.

I supposedly live in a free country, but when govt instruct revenue to dip into my pocket and forcibly take my hard earned cash to repay debts that are not, were not, and never were mine, well then I'll find ways to recoup that money, they can bet their houses on that one.

More than one way to skin a cat don't you know.

bgrizzley

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Feckers have covered every conceivable angle on this one.

i'd wait for all the talk to be finished and for some action to be taken. Revenue still havent collected one red cent in property tax. and we've had empty threats time and time again over the last 12 months and longer.

they may think they have people are cornered with the revenue but plenty have found to their cost in the past that it aint over till the fat lady sings.

Sadly SamHall, I am a PAYE worker so I am screwed. Not in a pleasurable way either

Banjo String

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Sadly SamHall, I am a PAYE worker so I am screwed. Not in a pleasurable way either

There are plenty more ways to get by.....

Road tax? The Garda aren't fining the public atm..... (that's 700 a year right there for me)

squod

squod wrote: »

Still don't know anyone that's paying it. Before anyone cries REVENUE......... you can't take €600 from €0.

Thats some house you have then. Lucky you.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats some house you have then. Lucky you.

Luck probably didn't come into it MaryAnne.

Hard work, saving and sweat prob did.

100% privately provided for, and maintained, and now the govt want a rent to live in it?

More fool you if you buy into the lies being told.;)

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Last year, we had this property tax of 100 Euro (gettin a blank here but think was called " household charge" tax ) and as we know only a certain percentage paid it.

Are the government trying to get everyone to pay this 100 Euro first before proceeding with the new tax or wha ?

How do they think the people that haven't paid the above 100 euro are now going to pay the new tax.

Revenue will collect it now, along with interest and charges.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/household_charge.html
Arrears
Late payment penalties and interest apply if you did not pay the 2012 Household Charge. It is an offence not to pay it, and local authorities have the power to prosecute people who do not pay.
The arrears of the Household Charge for 2012 will be capped at €130 if you pay by 30 April 2013.
If you do not pay the Household Charge for 2012 by 1 July 2013, the Local Property Tax in respect of the property will be increased by €200. In effect, the arrears of the Household Charge will be converted into LPT and collected through the LPT system. Revenue will pursue this additional liability when the LPT system is fully operational. Interest and penalties under the LPT system will apply to the additional €200.

Why is it only homeowners that are hit with this tax? The party line is that it will generate revenue to cover the cost of local services (roads, parks, libraries, etc). Are homeowners the only ones that use these services or what?

How do they justify only charging homeowners?

Chinasea

SamHall wrote: »

Got a builder calling? Ask him for a cash rate.
Mechanic? Same thing.

If you're close enough proximity to the north, do any possible purchasing there you can, lower vat rate, and lower excise duties on most products.

Do a few jobs that pay cash yourself also. :eek:

Typical Mé Féin attitude. No wonder we are fu*ked. Next you'd have the hand across the chest proclaiming your love for your country. (not just you though). The majority of the whinge festival goer's on here.

Where oh where oh where is the money supposed to come from to keep the country afloat.

NOT ONE SINGLE SOLUTION OR ANSWER TO THIS ON THE THREAD?

suicide_circus

Government: "we want to help struggling families coping with unemployment and mortgage arrears. We will achieve this by introducing several new taxes per year"

suicide_circus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Why is it only homeowners that are hit with this tax? The party line is that it will generate revenue to cover the cost of local services (roads, parks, libraries, etc). Are homeowners the only ones that use these services or what?

How do they justify only charging homeowners?

Sure isnt rent dead money?

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sure isnt rent dead money?

I don't think of renting like that.

I just don't get why it isn't the responsibility of every household, be they renters or homeowners, to pay their share for services we all use.