Unreasonable boss

P_1

OK thinking about it maybe you were a tad OTT saying 'no I have to leg it' when the boss asked you to do a 2 minute job.

Hindsight is everything and all that but maybe a better way to have approached it would have been to do the job but make sure you showed the boss how to do it. That way they 'shouldn't' be hassling you to do that particular job again. A friendly reminder of your agreement could have been dropped in at this stage.

Now on to Monday, chances are you're going to have to eat a bit of humble pie and say' I possibly shouldn't have flown off the handle like that' but also remind the boss that you do stay late to help out when you're given enough notice. 2 wrongs don't make a right and all that

Meteoric

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You honestly believe that her employer is so unreasonable that they would not allow Puixue to call home to say she was going to be late if she had to work late. I think it's an assumption she's making rather than a fact.
Her comments have made her appear not cooperative and aggressive at every turn.

Let's not forget " I hardly think I need to remind my boss that the last time I was late home and my boyfriend got no phone call from me, the next phone call he got was me telling him I'd been hit by a van?"

Why has her boss got to think a about that every time they might think of asking op to help for 10 minutes?

I'm assuming the OP was telling the truth in the original post, it's not conjecture or me assuming anything, it's what they said originally before any comment. To me not being allowed explain why you will be late home, using your own phone, is unreasonable.

Del2005

P_1 wrote: »

OK thinking about it maybe you were a tad OTT saying 'no I have to leg it' when the boss asked you to do a 2 minute job.

Hindsight is everything and all that but maybe a better way to have approached it would have been to do the job but make sure you showed the boss how to do it. That way they 'shouldn't' be hassling you to do that particular job again. A friendly reminder of your agreement could have been dropped in at this stage.

Now on to Monday, chances are you're going to have to eat a bit of humble pie and say' I possibly shouldn't have flown off the handle like that' but also remind the boss that you do stay late to help out when you're given enough notice. 2 wrongs don't make a right and all that

The photocopier wasn't the only work the boss wanted done. 5pm on a Friday is no time to be saying extra work is required.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Unless this 5.30 appointment was to take your mother to the hospital, go to a friends funeral or go to your sisters wedding it was no more important than your job, you could have put it off and helped your boss.

it doesn't matter what the appointment was the OP had already made plans. People don't live to work, unless they are an unreasonable boss.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your boss is a smart qualified person don't think for one minute they haven't been keeping a written account of everything that's happened if they ever need to produce evidence it wasn't an unfair dismissal in court. It's one of the first thing they tell you to do with employees in a start your own business course.

I work with loads of "smart qualified" people who don't know how to use the toilets or wash their hands after using the it. Just because you received a piece of paper doesn't make you a good people manager. Some of the "smart qualified" people I work with had to be told this by smarter people who know that honey gets better results than sticks, especially at 5pm on a Friday

daenerysstormborn3

My boss's request was that there was "loads more work to do", not a 2 minute job of refilling the photocopier. This is stated in my OP and I think some posters are just ignoring that to further their argument that i was just being dramatic.

I am not allowed make phone calls. She once kept me 45 minutes late while my boyfriend sat outside the office in his dad's car waiting for me to come out to bring me to the train station. I made my train with about 30 seconds to spare. I had told her that day that i had to get the train. I told her numerous times during that 45 minute period that my bf was outside waiting and that i'd miss my train. I asked her to at least let me ring my bf (who when i arrived out to the car thought i wasn't getting the train or had made my own way and was about to head home) but she wouldn't, kept saying it would just take 5 more minutes, which is something she always says, 5 minutes usually means at least a half hour.

daenerysstormborn3

P_1 wrote: »

OK thinking about it maybe you were a tad OTT saying 'no I have to leg it' when the boss asked you to do a 2 minute job.

Hindsight is everything and all that but maybe a better way to have approached it would have been to do the job but make sure you showed the boss how to do it. That way they 'shouldn't' be hassling you to do that particular job again. A friendly reminder of your agreement could have been dropped in at this stage.

Again, it wasn't a two minute job. Her request was not to refill the copier. Also, she knows how to load the photocopier, you open the drawer, you put paper in, you close the drawer, she has done it plenty of times, it's not rocket science.

I think the problem has gone beyond a friendly reminder of our agreement. I have had 3 conversations with her about this. I am looking for advice on how I should handle this reminder of our agreement for the fourth time. She has agreed that she will give me notice, she has agreed that she will allow me to contact my boyfriend so he doesn't worry (all i'm asking for is 1 minute to text him to say "i'll be late") but she will not stick to this agreement. The last time we spoke about this she even went one step further and said "lets shake on it" and we shook hands, for all that meant to her.

amdublin

Could you not just have stayed for a half hour?

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Could you not just have stayed for a half hour?

If I could've stayed for a half hour I would've done so. I had plans and I could not stay late. We're on page 3 of this thread, I'm pretty sure it's obvious by now that I have no problem staying late if I can. People have lives outside of work. I had to be somewhere at 5:30 so no, for the final time, I couldn't stay. If I could've stayed late, I would've done so, as I have done many many times in the past (examples of which I have given already).

Wanderer2010

Have you ever considered that your boss is just really badly organized and has to leave everything to the last minute, hence all the late work and extra hours etc? Or, she could just be a nasty person trying to bully you into her rules. Either way your attitude doesnt help, you come accross quite rude and snappy in your posts so I can only imagine how you come accross in work. Stuff happnes in a job, its not always possible to give you clean notice of late hours at x time for y duration. You seem very rigid and unflexible in your work and she will definitely note this down and im afraid if you dont just suck it up a few times (it doesnt have to be every day thats unreasonable) then you could find yourself out of a job.

amdublin

Don't take this the wrong way but "I had plans" seems a bit evasive/low on information.

"I was visiting my mam in hospital and visiting hours are limited" - completely understand.
"I was on my way to cinema, tickets were booked" - completely understand
"I had arranged to meet my friends/boyfriend for after work Friday drinks" - yeah would it have been completely unreasonable to tell them you had to work a little late and would be half an hour late.

Being completely honest your tone/responses in the op sounds unhelpful and inflexible to me.
Could you not even have said "I'll change the paper now but I am sorry I can't stay late tonight because of x (whichever reason), sorry about that but I can stay late on Monday/Tuesday instead"
IMO would create a better understanding and relationship between you two.

Boskowski

First of all I'm assuming you're telling it exactly the way it is. And I'm only saying this because there are others doubting that which really doesn't add up in my opinion. Anyway...

Any professional field requires a great deal of flexibility on both sides with regards to workload and times especially in a small organization. No doubt.

But your boss doesn't sound reasonable at all. She doesn't seem to waste a single thought on your private live and your commitments when flexibility and consideration has to work both ways.

I can tell from the tone of the quoted conversation that this dispute has gone beyond the point where choice of words etc will make a difference. You seem at the end of your tether and you're willing to make a stand. You're at a stage where you seem ok with the possibility of this going all the way.

With that in mind I think your response was quite appropriate. Eventually one has to put a stop to such a behavior or else you will be taken as a doormat.

I'd give her one more chance after that you will have to follow through on it.

Which way you're going to follow through on it is hard to tell. Will you simply fight your corner and wait for the sack or will you take that step yourself I don't know. But I think you have to be prepared for this to end your employment if no workable agreement can be reached.

P.S. Now that others have commented on one thing I gotta say it sounds funny to me too. You're willing to make a stand like you did, but yet you rely on permission to make a quick private phone call?

daenerysstormborn3

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Have you ever considered that your boss is just really badly organized and has to leave everything to the last minute, hence all the late work and extra hours etc? Or, she could just be a nasty person trying to bully you into her rules. Either way your attitude doesnt help, you come accross quite rude and snappy in your posts so I can only imagine how you come accross in work. Stuff happnes in a job, its not always possible to give you clean notice of late hours at x time for y duration. You seem very rigid and unflexible in your work and she will definitely note this down and im afraid if you dont just suck it up a few times (it doesnt have to be every day thats unreasonable) then you could find yourself out of a job.

Someone being really badly organised, leaving everything to the last minute doesn't mean that everyone else has to be late and cancel plans at the last minute to accommodate them.

Yeah, I'm very unflexible, never work late, have you even read my posts?

smcgiff

Your boss's attitude re phone calls after hours is not acceptable - frankly it's unbelievable. So, you're able to have a conversation with your boss that ends in you walking out of the office, but you feel unable to make a 10 second phone call?

Some Employees forget that the work undertaken by a company is done so as to earn money - that money goes to pay employee wages. The work undertaken by your boss (does she also not have plans for the weekend?) At 5pm on a Friday was deemed important for the company.

My advice would be to go work for a company that's less demanding, oh and don't forget to mention at interview that you're unavailable for last minute work. There, you won't have any problems going forward.

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way but "I had plans" seems a bit evasive/low on information.

"I was visiting my mam in hospital and visiting hours are limited" - completely understand.
"I was on my way to cinema, tickets were booked" - completely understand
"I had arranged to meet my friends/boyfriend for after work Friday drinks" - yeah would it have been completely unreasonable to tell them you had to work a little late and would be half an hour late.

Being completely honest your tone/responses in the op sounds unhelpful and inflexible to me.
Could you not even have said "I'll change the paper now but I am sorry I can't stay late tonight because of x (whichever reason), sorry about that but I can stay late on Monday/Tuesday instead"
IMO would create a better understanding and relationship between you two.

Why should anyone have to divulge their personal lives to their employer?

As I have said before, changing paper in the copier is something she knows how to do and it wasn't her request.

As I have said before, I will be working late on Wednesday, Thursday and possibly Friday of next week.

amdublin

smcgiff wrote: »

Your bosses attitude re phone calls after hours is not acceptable - frankly it's unbelievable. So, you're able to have a conversation with your boss that ends in you waking out of the office, but you feel unable to make a 10 second phone call?

Some Employees forget that the work undertaken by a company is done so as to earn money - that money goes to pay employee wages. The work undertaken by your boss (does she also not have plans for the weekend?) At 5pm on a Friday was deemed important for the company.

My advice would be to go work for a company that's less demanding, oh and don't forget to mention at interview that you're unavailable for last minute work. There, you won't have any problems going forward.

Op some good advice here.

I completely concur about making a phone call. From the text of the conversation you have posted, it seems to me that you are a strong person well capable of getting the point across that you're leaving the office come hell or high water. Yet you can't just lift a phone and make quick call home/to boyf to say you'll be late?

You sound very unhappy in this job with this boss. Would you consider a new job?

Wanderer2010

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Someone being really badly organised, leaving everything to the last minute doesn't mean that everyone else has to be late and cancel plans at the last minute to accommodate them.

Yeah, I'm very unflexible, never work late, have you even read my posts?

Yeah I have and Im delighted Im not your boss, you have a serious attitude problem and I wouldnt want you working for me in a million years. To be honest with you, considering how often you have been sarky and snapped at people, it just sounds like you are coasting in the job and were annoyed that your boss asked you to do a little extra work, because if your boss was as restrictive as you claim she is (with phone calls etc) you would have had it out with her or just quit a long time ago, you dont seem the type of employee that takes instruction well.

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Op some good advice here.

I completely concur about making a phone call. From the text of the conversation you have posted, it seems to me that you are a strong person well capable of getting the point across that you're leaving the office come hell or high water. Yet you can't just lift a phone and make quick call home/to boyf to say you'll be late?

You sound very unhappy in this job with this boss. Would you consider a new job?

Just to clarify, my plans on Friday did not involve my boyfriend so contacting him was not necessary.

On occasions, like the one I mentioned of being kept 45 minutes late, i was in her office with her and she would not allow me leave her office to get my phone to text my bf.

Yeah I'd consider a new job and sure they're ten a penny, aren't they?

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Why should anyone have to divulge their personal lives to their employer?

As I have said before, changing paper in the copier is something she knows how to do and it wasn't her request.

As I have said before, I will be working late on Wednesday, Thursday and possibly Friday of next week.

Okay maybe I am way off the mark, some input from other people might help, I always tend to give a little (not a huge amount) more info than "I have plans" And so do all others in my office, plus in every other job I've worked in.

Seriously is this normal that people say "no, I've plans" and walk out the door

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Okay maybe I am way off the mark, some input from other people might help, I always tend to give a little (not a huge amount) more info than "I have plans" And so do all others in my office, plus in every other job I've worked in.

Seriously is this normal that people say "no, I've plans" and walk out the door

Why would it not be normal? My plans were particularly personal, why should I divulge them to my employer?

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Just to clarify, my plans on Friday did not involve my boyfriend so contacting him was not necessary.

On occasions, like the one I mentioned of being kept 45 minutes late, i was in her office with her and she would not allow me leave her office to get my phone to text my bf.

Yeah I'd consider a new job and sure they're ten a penny, aren't they?

Seriously you can speak to your boss the way you did in the op but you can't say, "Mary (or whatever her name is) give me a sec and I'll just pop out and send a quick text to let John know I'll be late".
Seriously?


Jobs are not ten a penny.

From your comment I'm assuming you dont want to be out on the job market. Do you think you can change your attitude to make this one more workable?

Boskowski

To be fair in a purely professional relationship I would offer as little personal information as possible myself. I don't fancy offering information as to whether my private commitments are 'worthy' or not to my boss. Especially not when the situation has already escalated the way it has.

LegacyUser

In my experience, the nature of the role of PA is that you work the hours the boss works. If the boss is working past 5pm, the PA doesn't ask if they should stay -they will automatically stay and do what they can to help - until the boss tells them to leave. This is different to other types of jobs, where you have more control over what overtime you work. As I said, it's just the nature of the role. In my experience, a good PA will give their boss notice if they won't be available for overtime on a particular day. Rather than expecting to receive notice of overtime required.

Most bosses appreciate this flexibility, and reward their PA appropriately.

Sir Oxman

I don't understand some posters saying the OP sounds snappy/cranky/unreasonable.

Taking the OP at their word (which should be the default on this forum unless proven otherwise!), their manager is typical of so many managers/bosses in this country.

Unreasonable, unthinking, disorganised and having unrealistic expectations of the people who sell their time to them.

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Why would it not be normal? My plans were particularly personal, why should I divulge them to my employer?

So that she understands that there is no way you can change your plans, and are not just being difficult which is what it sounds like from your post.

I don't know, let's just say you are on your way to the doctors for your smear. No need to give info about smear. No need to even mention doctor if you don't want.

How about, "Mary, I'm really sorry, I have an appointment at 6 which I unfortunately just can't change at this late notice, am sorry about that. But as you know I'll be working late Tues, Wed, thurs night next week"

Why are you making things so difficult for yourself?

Wanderer2010

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I don't understand some posters saying the OP sounds snappy/cranky/unreasonable.

Taking the OP at their word (which should be the default on this forum unless proven otherwise!), their manager is typical of so many managers/bosses in this country.

Unreasonable, unthinking, disorganised and having unrealistic expectations of the people who sell their time to them.

They sell their time because thats their job, how else do you think you get PAID for it? If they want all time as their own then they can quit and get NO money, see how easy it works?

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Seriously you can speak to your boss the way you did in the op but you can't say, "Mary (or whatever her name is) give me a sec and I'll just pop out and send a quick text to let John know I'll be late".
Seriously?


Jobs are not ten a penny.

From your comment I'm assuming you dont want to be out on the job market. Do you think you can change your attitude to make this one more workable?

Have you read my posts? In the example I gave of the day she kept me 45 minutes late, she would not allow me to leave her office to use my phone. That would've resulted in me walking out of the office also. Would it have been to walk out of the office then but not on Friday as I did?

Boskowski wrote: »

To be fair in a purely professional relationship I would offer as little personal information as possible myself. I don't fancy offering information as to whether my private commitments are 'worthy' or not to my boss. Especially not when the situation has already escalated the way it has.

That is my point exactly. Why should I have to tell my employer what my plans are? So that she can them deem them worthy of me leaving work on time to make my appointment?

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

So that she understands that there is no way you can change your plans, and are not just being difficult which is what it sounds like from your post.

I don't know, let's just say you are on your way to the doctors for your smear. No need to give info about smear. No need to even mention doctor if you don't want.

How about, "Mary, I'm really sorry, I have an appointment at 6 which I unfortunately just can't change at this late notice, am sorry about that. But as you know I'll be working late Tues, Wed, thurs night next week"

Why are you making things so difficult for yourself?

But why should it be down to her to deem my plans worthy of being changed or not? It is my personal life, as your personal life is your's.

How am I making things difficult for myself? God forbid once in a while I actually finish work on time. Yeah, I'm being absolutely ludicrous!

Sir Oxman

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

They sell their time because thats their job, how else do you think you get PAID for it? If they want all time as their own then they can quit and get NO money, see how easy it works?

I think there is a distinct lack of comprehension on the part of some (mainly bosses it appears) in this thread.

Really, read the thread again.

smcgiff

Big difference, if you went to get your phone and spent 30 seconds away from work you would have come back. Can you really not see the difference?

daenerysstormborn3

smcgiff wrote: »

Big difference, if you went to get your phone and spent 30 seconds away from work you would have come back. Can you really not see the difference?

Can you not see, where I have stated numerous times now, that my boss refuses to allow me leave the room to get my phone?

smcgiff

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Can you not see, where I have stated numerous times now, that my boss refuses to allow me leave the room to get my phone?

Can you not see where it has been pointed out that this is inconsistent with the rest of your story?