Unreasonable boss

nlgbbbblth

pixiebean22 wrote: »

We are not allowed carry our phones around the office with us.

How will the employer know? Can she see into your pocket?

Why not keep the phone on silent?

I find it hard to believe that you can can't make a quick 10 second call (or send a text) without her knowing about it.

I would have filled the photocopier for her and then explained that I wasn't in a position to work late. The whole situation could have been addressed in a much more civil manner.

smcgiff

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

of said employee.

And you're criticising my use of authoritarian language :P

Sir Oxman

smcgiff wrote: »

It's a solicitors office, their work has dried up - that's the more likely scenario that there are 18 less employees.

If you had read the OPs posts, you would have understood that was the turnover on a small team of four over a short period of time - I mean, why some posters are making up stuff, I don't know...

Does that extremely high turnover not indicate a problem with this particular boss?

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

So what are you going to do tomorrow op?

Be vague, obtuse, passive-agressive, withholding?
Or be open and try sort this out?

In what way is being vague, obtuse or withholding something to be criticised? So I don't want my employer knowing my personal life, what's the problem with that?

Obviously, my intention is to sort out this problem, why else would I have started a thread looking for advice? My intention is to sort out this problem in line with what we have agreed previously, which I don't think is unreasonable. If you had made an agreement with your employer, wouldn't you like to think that it would actually stand? This isn't about me refusing to work late, as I have said numerous times, I work late when I can, however, life does not always allow for me to work late. Is that not perfectly understandable?

amdublin

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

I would have filled the photocopier for her and then explained that I wasn't in a position to work late. The whole situation could have been addressed in a much more civil manner.

I would've done this too.

If this had been done I don't think there'd be the conversation happening on Monday.

smcgiff

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Yes, a generality which some may interpret as applying to this situation, which I believe was your intention anyway.

It's not all about you, pixiebean - you've been around boards long enough to know this. Miss Lockhart was making generalities, and so was I.

daenerysstormborn3

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

How will the employer know? Can she see into your pocket?

Why not keep the phone on silent?

I find it hard to believe that you can can't make a quick 10 second call (or send a text) without her knowing about it.

I would have filled the photocopier for her and then explained that I wasn't in a position to work late. The whole situation could have been addressed in a much more civil manner.

You may find it hard to believe but that is the situation in my workplace.

amdublin wrote: »

I would've done this too.

If this had been done I don't think there'd be the conversation happening on Monday.

As I have said already, the request was not to fill the photocopier, it was to do "loads of work" and I did not have time to accommodate the "loads of work".

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

In what way is being vague, obtuse or withholding something to be criticised? So I don't want my employer knowing my personal life, what's the problem with that?

Obviously, my intention is to sort out this problem, why else would I have started a thread looking for advice? My intention is to sort out this problem in line with what we have agreed previously, which I don't think is unreasonable. If you had made an agreement with your employer, wouldn't you like to think that it would actually stand? This isn't about me refusing to work late, as I have said numerous times, I work late when I can, however, life does not always allow for me to work late. Is that not perfectly understandable?

Completely understandable.

Could you have handled it this way instead of the way you did:

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

I would have filled the photocopier for her and then explained that I wasn't in a position to work late. The whole situation could have been addressed in a much more civil manner.

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

Completely understandable.

Could you have handled it this way instead of the way you did:

Re-read my OP, did I not explain to her that I couldn't stay late? 3 times? She knows how to fill the photocopier, as I'm sure anyone working in an office does.

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

As I have said already, the request was not to fill the photocopier, it was to do "loads of work" and I did not have time to accommodate the "loads of work".

From my reading of the op it was two requests:
One to fill the photocopier. Two to stay late do loads of work.

You said no to both.

Could you not have gone down and filled the photocopier and explained you couldn't stay late. Instead of just saying:"it's five o'clock. I have to go now"

smcgiff

Sir Oxman wrote: »

If you had read the OPs posts, you would have understood that was the turnover on a small team of four over a short period of time - I mean, why some posters are making up stuff, I don't know...

Does that extremely high turnover not indicate a problem with this particular boss?

Fair point - I missed that. That in itself would be an indicator of a problematic boss.

However, the op then went on to give a very poor example (imho) - surely there's far greater examples of her boss being unreasonable. 18 staff leaving employment in an industry (that point stands) that is going through a tough time should allow her to give a personal example of how tough it is to work for her.

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

From my reading of the op it was two requests:
One to fill the photocopier. Two to stay late do loads of work.

You said no to both.

Could you not have gone up and filled the photocopier and explained you couldn't stay late. Instead of just saying:"it's five o'clock. I have to go now"

Seriously? Are we stuck on this? She knows how to fill the photocopier.

I did explain to her on the phone that I couldn't stay late, why would I then need to have that conversation in person also?

professore

smcgiff wrote: »

How is that relevant? This is not the accountancy forum?

I would expect a more respectful tone of a moderator, even out of their own forum. The way you are attacking the OP, I honestly thought you were a troll.

The OP is looking for advice, and is quite obviously stressed, and instead of offering constructive advice, she is attacked.

We have to take her at face value, and from her posts she comes across consistent to me.

Arciphel

Life is too short OP, people like this don't see anything wrong with the disrespectful way they treat other people. Move on and find another job. If 18 other people in your office have managed it, then you can too. Best of luck.

daenerysstormborn3

smcgiff wrote: »

Fair point - I missed that. That in itself would be an indicator of a problematic boss.

However, the op then went on to give a very poor example (imho) - surely there's far greater examples of her boss being unreasonable. 18 staff leaving employment in an industry (that point stands) that is going through a tough time should allow her to give a personal example of how tough it is to work for her.

As I have pointed out, litigation (both fortunately and unfortunately) is one of the few areas of law not to have seen a massive decrease in work, compared to other areas of law, like conveyancing for example.

There are far greater examples of my boss being unreasonable but you (and other posters) seem under the impression that I'm making the whole thing up anyway so why provide other examples? Also, this thread is about that particular issue, I'd be here all day if I started listing out other examples.

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Seriously? Are we stuck on this? She knows how to fill the photocopier.

I did explain to her on the phone that I couldn't stay late, why would I then need to have that conversation in person also?

No, you're stuck on saying no to everything.

Could you not have gone and filled the photocopier and explained to her how you couldn't stay. This thread would not exist if you had.

How easy would it have been for you to do the above? How much of a pain is tomorrow going to be? Why would you not make life easier for yourself?

daenerysstormborn3

professore wrote: »

I would expect a more respectful tone of a moderator, even out of their own forum. The way you are attacking the OP, I honestly thought you were a troll.

The OP is looking for advice, and is quite obviously stressed, and instead of offering constructive advice, she is attacked.

We have to take her at face value, and from her posts she comes across consistent to me.

I don't know if a moderator can intervene in some fashion to move this thread beyond the point of "you're lying" v "no, I'm not" because we're just going around in circles here.

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

No, you're stuck on saying no to everything.

Could you not have gone and filled the photocopier and explained to her how you couldn't stay. This thread would not exist if you had.

How easy would it have been for you to do the above? How much of a pain is tomorrow going to be? Why would you not make life easier for yourself?

I'm stuck on saying no to everything, am I? So I never work late, I never accommodate her when I can.

How do you know this thread would not exist if I had? I have provided evidence of how unreasonable she is and yet you seem under the impression that if I had spoken to her face-to-face she would've just said "that's grand so, have a great weekend, see you on Monday"?

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I don't know if a moderator can intervene in some fashion to move this thread beyond the point of "you're lying" v "no, I'm not" because we're just going around in circles here.

Yep they can. Use the report thread function.

smcgiff

professore wrote: »

I would expect a more respectful tone of a moderator, even out of their own forum.

You, sir, expect too much of a moderator.

With that said I don't see anything wrong with my tone. For what it's worth I wondered if the OP was a troll.

professore wrote: »

The OP is looking for advice, and is quite obviously stressed, and instead of offering constructive advice, she is attacked.

Advice has been given. If 18 other people have left then it may be the only answer. However, and I don't think I'm alone on this, the specific example in itself is not strong.

Advice doesn't always have to be - yeah, you're right OP - stick it to da (wo)man.

Sir Oxman

I guess you'll be having a conversation tomorrow - I'd reiterate for the fourth time that you do and will work overtime to facilitate the business and that you believed you had a reasonable expectation that the previous verbal agreement between the two of you stood and was in force.

It's quite difficult when dealing with someone in a position of authority who obviously does not listen and treats any agreement with their employees as a throwaway.

You could perhaps say if some urgent, unavoidable work that must be completed came in at the last minute that you would within reason, try to facilitate her on the condition that she is reasonable with you and understanding that sometimes you also have unavoidable commitments outside work and that you have a reasonable expectation that this should be acknowledged (ie, that at times you cannot rather than will not stay back)
(How often would a request be made at 4.59pm or 4.30pm etc?)

I would also tell her that 'forbidding' making a call to your partner to let them know you'll be 1, 2, 3 hours late home at night is the height of disrespect (obviously, you would word it better)


Her reaction (visible or not) is totally outside your control - so I'd be very much on guard, she sounds like she will take great offence and possibly have you on the road out the door.

In any circumstance, I'd document everything without delay!
And fair play for not letting her walk all over you.

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I'm stuck on saying no to everything, am I? So I never work late, I never accommodate her when I can.

How do you know this thread would not exist if I had? I have provided evidence of how unreasonable she is and yet you seem under the impression that if I had spoken to her face-to-face she would've just said "that's grand so, have a great weekend, see you on Monday"?

It's not just the face2face, if you said it slightly different it would've helped too:
"Mary I'll be down to fill the photocopier now, but unfortunately I just can't stay late tonight, but I'm here late next week on tues and wed as you know"

Can you see how she has no come-back to the above? Make life easier for yourself dude!

Ps. It's giving no more personal information than you originally gave, but it comes across way less inflexible then what you said.
Good luck on monday!

professore

smcgiff wrote: »

You, sir, expect too much of a moderator.

With that said I don't see anything wrong with my tone. For what it's worth I suspect the OP of being a troll.



Advice has been given. If 18 other people have left then it may be the only answer. However, and I don't think I'm alone on this, the specific example in itself is not strong.

Advice doesn't always have to be - yeah, you're right OP - stick it to da (wo)man.

Of course not. And the OP does have communication issues IMO.

amdublin

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I guess you'll be having a conversation tomorrow - I'd reiterate for the fourth time that you do and will work overtime to facilitate the business and that you believed you had a reasonable expectation that the previous verbal agreement between the two of you stood and was in force.

It's quite difficult when dealing with someone in a position of authority who obviously does not listen and treats any agreement with their employees as a throwaway.

You could perhaps say if some urgent, unavoidable work that must be completed came in at the last minute that you would within reason, try to facilitate her on the condition that she is reasonable with you and understanding that sometimes you also have unavoidable commitments outside work and that you have a reasonable expectation that this should be acknowledged (ie, that at times you cannot rather than will not stay back)
(How often would a request be made at 4.59pm or 4.30pm etc?)

I would also tell her that 'forbidding' making a call to your partner to let them know you'll be 1, 2, 3 hours late home at night is the height of disrespect (obviously, you would word it better)


Her reaction (visible or not) is totally outside your control - so I'd be very much on guard, she sounds like she will take great offence and possibly have you on the road out the door.

In any circumstance, I'd document everything without delay!
And fair play for not letting her walk all over you.

Except when you don't even manage to escape from her office to make that one phone call/send that one text.

daenerysstormborn3

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I guess you'll be having a conversation tomorrow - I'd reiterate for the fourth time that you do and will work overtime to facilitate the business and that you believed you had a reasonable expectation that the previous verbal agreement between the two of you stood and was in force.

It's quite difficult when dealing with someone in a position of authority who obviously does not listen and treats any agreement with their employees as a throwaway.

You could perhaps say if some urgent, unavoidable work that must be completed came in at the last minute that you would within reason, try to facilitate her on the condition that she is reasonable with you and understanding that sometimes you also have unavoidable commitments outside work and that you have a reasonable expectation that this should be acknowledged (ie, that at times you cannot rather than will not stay back)
(How often would a request be made at 4.59pm or 4.30pm etc?)

I would also tell her that 'forbidding' making a call to your partner to let them know you'll be 1, 2, 3 hours late home at night is the height of disrespect (obviously, you would word it better)


In any circumstance, I'd document everything without delay!
And fair play for not letting her walk all over you.

There is never a request, Friday was a surprising example of a request actually being made. Her usual tack is to just keep sending you work until you remind her that you'd like to go home.

My exact words to her on previous occasions have been "I have no problem working late, all you have to do is ask and for it to be optional" and she has repeated these words back to me as being completely reasonable. For example, I worked late with her one night until about 8p.m. to finish a brief and she said to me as I was leaving "I know the other girls give out about staying late but you won't be giving out, will you?" and my response was "Why would I give out if I agreed to stay late?" and she then said "Yes, you always say "as long as I'm asked".

ahnowbrowncow

Over 100 posts of bickering, I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Sir Oxman

amdublin wrote: »

No, you're stuck on saying no to everything.

Could you not have gone and filled the photocopier and explained to her how you couldn't stay. This thread would not exist if you had.

How easy would it have been for you to do the above? How much of a pain is tomorrow going to be? Why would you not make life easier for yourself?

On what I've read about the OP's boss, that is quite clearly not how this was going to pan out (due to the bosses unreasonableness)

daenerysstormborn3

amdublin wrote: »

It's not just the face2face, if you said it slightly different it would've helped too:
"Mary I'll be down to fill the photocopier now, but unfortunately I just can't stay late tonight, but I'm here late next week on tues and wed as you know"

Can you see how she has no come-back to the above? Make life easier for yourself dude!

Ps. It's giving no more personal information than you originally gave, but it comes across way less inflexible then what you said.
Good luck on monday!

But why would I need to point out to her that I'm working late next week so as to facilitate leaving on time on Friday? Furthermore, she knows well that I'll be working late next week, she'll be there with me, in court.

I don't understand how our original conversation would've been made any better by saying "oh by the way, I'm working late next week". You obviously have greater expectations of someone you've never met than I do.

smcgiff

pixiebean22 wrote: »

and she then said "Yes, you always say "as long as I'm asked".

I hope things work out tomorrow. Chances are it was a throw away comment from her on Friday evening - It was probably her way of ending the conversation and saving some face.

Going from the above you're not the only one working long hours. You're boss seems to be going above and beyond as well.

amdublin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

But why would I need to point out to her that I'm working late next week so as to facilitate leaving on time on Friday? Furthermore, she knows well that I'll be working late next week, she'll be there with me, in court.

I don't understand how our original conversation would've been made any better by saying "oh by the way, I'm working late next week". You obviously have greater expectations of someone you've never met than I do.

I thought we were getting somewhere

Good luck on Monday.