Glut of repossessed houses could depress prices ‘by up to 25%’

The Spider

Villa05 wrote: »

It would appear that AIB are offering full debt write-off if the customer in arrears sells the house. Wonder if this is a widespread solution or only applied to customers with little or no income.

Good deal for the borrower, the market and to a lesser extent the taxpayer as legal proceeding costs are avoided, however the taxpayer will bear the shortfall.

It would be interesting to know if PTSB are offering the same in their "voluntary" sale arrangements

At least Hall and his team of PIPS won't get any of there greasy fingers on money in these type of deals which would add costs to the taxpayer, I hope



http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/how-lenders-have-been-dealing-with-those-in-trouble-29592223.html

So essentially what I've been saying, you can't have repos without a debt write off....

jay0109

The Spider wrote: »

So essentially what I've been saying, you can't have repos without a debt write off....

were you not saying that there'd be no repo's as 'everyone' wanted higher prices, there'd be no debt write off as that'd mean the banks needed recapitalising

Villa05

Jill Kirby trying to talk sense in the face of interruptions from the newstalk presenter, well worth a listen

gaius c

Mustard1972 wrote: »

They will be extremely selective on their repos.

Example
Two people living in the same house next door to each other who borrowed the same amount at the same rate 15 years ago.
Lets say the houses were bought for 500k each. And are worth 250k now.

Person 1 hasnt paid their mortgage in 2 years and now owes say 350k, and is working away earning plenty of money.

Person 2 hasnt paid their mortgage in 1 year, but overpaid for all they were worth when they were working, but fell on hard times and now owes 200k.

Nothing in it for the bank to repo person 1s house but a writedown.
But person 2, even though they have been the better customer will get repod first because the bank can turn around the house and take no hit.

Thats what is in store if there are repos. The worse off you are in neg eq the more likely you are to be left alone.

You're wrong. Person 1's mortgage is labelled "BAD DEBT" and increases the banks borrowing costs. Even if they give a writedown to the bad debtor to try and get them to pay, their borrowing costs will still remain high.

gaius c

€180,000 mortgage with Start mortgages.
No repayments in 2 years. They have now offered to pay €400 a month. Why were they not paying that all along?

Would anybody, anybody at all be campaigning on their behalf if they were renters who hadn't made a payment in two years?

More details here. Debt was a remortgage to pay down business debts.

They could rent for €400 btw.

jmayo

In the article they mention Mallow Resists Austerity which is affiliated to the anti-eviction group, Independent Resistance Ireland?

Who the fook are all these groups and who are funding them ?

It appears they got into trouble trying to pay off their business debts which is commendable and not done very much in this country where lots of failing businesses have their owners do the exact opposite.

Making an offer of 150 a month was a bit of a pi**take to be honest when it appears they could offer at least 400 a month.
Have they just started offering this now that push has come to shove ?

lima

gaius c wrote: »

€180,000 mortgage with Start mortgages.
No repayments in 2 years. They have now offered to pay €400 a month. Why were they not paying that all along?

Would anybody, anybody at all be campaigning on their behalf if they were renters who hadn't made a payment in two years?

More details here. Debt was a remortgage to pay down business debts.

They could rent for €400 btw.

Argh! Scumbag bullies! I was about to post a link but it seems you got here before me!

This sort of thing sickens me, why are these bully thugs allowed to scare off people who have a complete right to repossess a home?

I am getting sick of this, and I would gladly join any movement where we fight against these people who think it's ok to not pay their dues. Bloody idiots.

Why can't these people rent a house

Zamboni

If I was an editor.


Martin and Claire O’Sullivan, from Kanturk, Co Cork, spoke of their plight yesterday in the hope that others in similar circumstances would gain strength.

“It’s wrong. People have to stand their ground and fight this,” said Martin, 36.

Claire, 40, fought back tears, to say: “I’m scared, I don’t know how to cope with this at all. There’s stress, I can’t eat, can’t sleep, I’m frightened to go out. It’s a scary situation.”

Anti-Eviction Ireland campaigners who stood outside their home in the Dún an Óir housing estate to prevent any attempt to repossess the home have also vowed to maintain their presence there for as long as it takes.

Martin’s father, Donal, who was among the group standing outside, lashed out at the Government.

“Our government has bailed out the banks when they should be bailing out the people, not the banks. That’s going to be my battle cry from now on,” he said.


Martin and Claire, who have three children under the age of eight, moved into the four-bedroom semi-detached house seven years ago and secured a €180,000 mortgage with Start Mortgages.


Martin, who was self-employed in the construction industry, said they were repaying up to €1,000 a month until he lost his business. Because he was self-employed, he was not entitled to social welfare payments.

The couple accept that they have not made mortgage repayments for about two years but insist they have made two offers to start to pay something — the latest offer was to pay up to €400 a month.

Martin, who has in recent months got a job in telesales, said Start Mortgages has refused to accept those offers.

Start Mortgages, which has secured a High Court order for repossession of the home, could not be contacted for comment. Its legal advisers in the repossession case, Lavelle and Coleman solicitors, did not respond to queries.

The Cork County Sheriff, Sinead McNamara, whose officers were expected to execute the order for repossession yesterday, said it would be inappropriate to comment on individual cases. However, Ms McNamara is on record as saying that repossession orders are granted by a judge only after consideration of all the facts of the case.

lima

Check out these weirdo's facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/AntiEvictionTaskforce

Feel free to argue on their page, but I have a feeling your comments will be deleted.

I feel like setting up and Anti-AntiEvictionTaskforce to counter this lobbying

They are trying to make 20-35 year olds pay for the financial mistakes of the middle class.. this is something which needs to be stopped

The Spider

lima wrote: »

Argh! Scumbag bullies! I was about to post a link but it seems you got here before me!

This sort of thing sickens me, why are these bully thugs allowed to scare off people who have a complete right to repossess a home?

I am getting sick of this, and I would gladly join any movement where we fight against these people who think it's ok to not pay their dues. Bloody idiots.

Why can't these people rent a house

Seriously, you're really saying that......


Again just to spell it out to you good folk, people renting are paying for a service, the public will be no more annoyed about the being kicked out for non payment as they would be for someone kicked out of their hotel because their credit card bounced.

The entire country is behind any deal that means they don't have to pay their mortgage, the more people that get write offs the better it is for anyone with a mortgage precedence and all that.

lima

The Spider wrote: »

Seriously, you're really saying that......


Again just to spell it out to you good folk, people renting are paying for a service, the public will be no more annoyed about the being kicked out for non payment as they would be for someone kicked out of their hotel because their credit card bounced.

The entire country is behind any deal that means they don't have to pay their mortgage, the more people that get write offs the better it is for anyone with a mortgage precedence and all that.

The entire country is NOT behind any deal (which won't come about). What about all the under 35's who go in to a workforce having to pay high taxes to pay for some of these people who are refusing to pay for their mortgages?

Don't pay rent = out!
Don't pay hotel = out!
Don't pay mortgage = (after all reasonable effort, blah, yawn,) out!

I will fight against these lobbyists, you over 35's and your sense of middle class entitlement is incredible. I will make every effort I can to make sure that repossessions happen and people get removed from the banks (who have the deeds) houses for paying nothing and pocketing money.

Also:
Don't overestimate these rural, unemployed undereducated boyos.
Don't underestimate the lack of empathy from young people who see people living in houses for free whilst they pay rent.

Kick them out on the street, in a council house, whatever, I could't care less for any family that is not mine of my friends.

lima

Also Spider, note the Green v Red thumbs in this and tell me the entire country is behind paying to bail out middle class non-payers of mortgages they walked into a bank and asked for:

http://www.thejournal.ie/kanturk-eviction-osullivans-1099741-Sep2013/

The Spider

lima wrote: »

The entire country is NOT behind any deal (which won't come about). What about all the under 35's who go in to a workforce having to pay high taxes to pay for some of these people who are refusing to pay for their mortgages?

Don't pay rent = out!
Don't pay hotel = out!
Don't pay mortgage = (after all reasonable effort, blah, yawn,) out!

I will fight against these lobbyists, you over 35's and your sense of middle class entitlement is incredible. I will make every effort I can to make sure that repossessions happen and people get removed from the banks (who have the deeds) houses for paying nothing and pocketing money.

Also:
Don't overestimate these rural, unemployed undereducated boyos.
Don't underestimate the lack of empathy from young people who see people living in houses for free whilst they pay rent.

Kick them out on the street, in a council house, whatever, I could't care less for any family that is not mine of my friends.

Your efforts would be better spent focusing on your career and getting to a place where you can buy a house, instead of creating imaginary enemies.

Or go ahead and organise your little group I'd actually go along and bring some popcorn to watch a bunch of kids demanding people be thrown out of their homes, you wouldn't last two minutes.

The_Conductor

The Spider wrote: »

Your efforts would be better spent focusing on your career and getting to a place where you can buy a house, instead of creating imaginary enemies.

Or go ahead and organise your little group I'd actually go along and bring some popcorn to watch a bunch of kids demanding people be thrown out of their homes, you wouldn't last two minutes.

I don't know whether you are trolling and deliberately trying to bait people- or whether you have a genuine conviction in your point of view. Regardless- please read the forum charter if you intend to continue posting in Accommodation and Property.

Regards,

The_Conductor

tigershould

I'm over 35 and agree with Lima

This sums it up for me

Don't pay rent = out!
Don't pay hotel = out!
Don't pay mortgage = (after all reasonable effort, blah, yawn,) out!

The Spider

The_Conductor wrote: »

I don't know whether you are trolling and deliberately trying to bait people- or whether you have a genuine conviction in your point of view. Regardless- please read the forum charter if you intend to continue posting in Accommodation and Property.

Regards,

The_Conductor

I think there's a lot of nonsense being spouted, seriously can you see an organised protest in favour of repossessions?

There's a huge difference between someone who rents and someone who owns, if you rent and your kicked out, you find another place, if you own and are repossessed you lose everything you have and are in debt with nothing to show for it for he rest of your life, they are very different beasts.

I really don't know why people don't see that.

snubbleste

The Spider wrote: »

I think there's a lot of nonsense being spouted, seriously can you see an organised protest in favour of repossessions?
There's a huge difference between someone who rents and someone who owns, if you rent and your kicked out, you find another place, if you own and are repossessed you lose everything you have and are in debt with nothing to show for it for he rest of your life, they are very different beasts.
I really don't know why people don't see that.

Neither can afford their accommodation and therefore they are evicted. Can you not see that?

The Spider

snubbleste wrote: »

Neither can afford their accommodation and therefore they are evicted. Can you not see that?

Of course I bloody can, but the consequences for the owner far outweigh those for the renter.

Bob24

The Spider wrote: »

Of course I bloody can, but the consequences for the owner far outweigh those for the renter.

Maybe this is why it took over 2 years of non-payments and a fee visits to a courthouse in the first case, whereas it would have been sorted much faster for someone renting?

Society and the legal system are more than taking into account that difference in consequences already. People preventing court decisions from being executed are simply thugs.

jay0109

The Spider wrote: »

Seriously, you're really saying that......


Again just to spell it out to you good folk, people renting are paying for a service, the public will be no more annoyed about the being kicked out for non payment as they would be for someone kicked out of their hotel because their credit card bounced.

The entire country is behind any deal that means they don't have to pay their mortgage, the more people that get write offs the better it is for anyone with a mortgage precedence and all that.

Amazing, amazing stuff. I refuse to believe that YOU believe half of what you write

tigershould

If you can't afford a BMW buy a Ford.

If you can't afford your 4 bed detached but a 3 bed terrace.

It's just a case if people living beyond their means and refusing to admit it.

cookie1977

tigershould wrote: »

I'm over 35 and agree with Lima

This sums it up for me

Don't pay rent = out!
Don't pay hotel = out!
Don't pay mortgage = (after all reasonable effort, blah, yawn,) out!

Have you every tried to evict someone for not paying rent? It takes a long long time if they decide not to comply plus you may have massive costs trying to put everything back together and paying for legal help. It is not as simple as "no rent, = out"

lima

The Spider wrote: »

Your efforts would be better spent focusing on your career and getting to a place where you can buy a house, instead of creating imaginary enemies.

Or go ahead and organise your little group I'd actually go along and bring some popcorn to watch a bunch of kids demanding people be thrown out of their homes, you wouldn't last two minutes.

I am in a position where I can buy a house, I don't want to right now though as they are overpriced because of vested interests lobbying for people who are not paying their mortgage living for free in the banks houses (bank has the deeds), as well as government intervention though Nama.

I do believe you are trolling though so unfortunately your words do not wind me up. You seems to be a blow-in from the sticks who couldn't afford a house in Dublin and moved to the commuter belt and now you spend your time convincing yourself that house prices are going up in a healthy market and that rent going up is a good thing.

As usual, my counter-argument is that I can buy a house if I wanted, but as per above I find it high risk to buy in this crazy market where unemployed bearded old men stand in gardens of houses that should rightly be repossessed.

Again, don't underestimate the bad sentiment towards people living in their houses for free, whether they have kids or are 'suicidal' or anything doesn't matter.

lima

Almost 80% on this thread want evictions:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057047038

cookie1977

lima wrote: »

Almost 80% on this thread want evictions:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057047038

A) it's after hours
it's after hours
C) it's after hours

Snakeblood

lima wrote: »

I am in a position where I can buy a house, I don't want to right now though as they are overpriced because of vested interests lobbying for people who are not paying their mortgage living for free in the banks houses (bank has the deeds), as well as government intervention though Nama.

I do believe you are trolling though so unfortunately your words do not wind me up. You seems to be a blow-in from the sticks who couldn't afford a house in Dublin and moved to the commuter belt and now you spend your time convincing yourself that house prices are going up in a healthy market and that rent going up is a good thing.

As usual, my counter-argument is that I can buy a house if I wanted, but as per above I find it high risk to buy in this crazy market where unemployed bearded old men stand in gardens of houses that should rightly be repossessed.

Again, don't underestimate the bad sentiment towards people living in their houses for free, whether they have kids or are 'suicidal' or anything doesn't matter.

I think it's mostly the beard thing.

The Spider

lima wrote: »

I am in a position where I can buy a house, I don't want to right now though as they are overpriced because of vested interests lobbying for people who are not paying their mortgage living for free in the banks houses (bank has the deeds), as well as government intervention though Nama.

I do believe you are trolling though so unfortunately your words do not wind me up. You seems to be a blow-in from the sticks who couldn't afford a house in Dublin and moved to the commuter belt and now you spend your time convincing yourself that house prices are going up in a healthy market and that rent going up is a good thing.

As usual, my counter-argument is that I can buy a house if I wanted, but as per above I find it high risk to buy in this crazy market where unemployed bearded old men stand in gardens of houses that should rightly be repossessed.

Again, don't underestimate the bad sentiment towards people living in their houses for free, whether they have kids or are 'suicidal' or anything doesn't matter.

Ha ha, you really are a funny chap, blow in from the sticks? true but I lived in Dublin for around 17 years, and can say I'm glad to be out of it, either way we still have a property in Dublin so that's good.

Actually there's a lot of people on this thread trying to convince themselves houses are going down instead of up, bananas.

To be honest, you shouldn't buy a house if you're not going to be happy in the area you can afford, I wouldn't and as I've said previously there's only certain areas in Dublin I'd live in. Those areas won't drop in price as everyone wants to live there, lack of supply, and it'll take years for the supply to reach the level of demand, with or without repossessions, so you're probably better off not buying, and putting your money into something else.

Uriel.

Bob24 wrote: »

Maybe this is why it took over 2 years of non-payments and a fee visits to a courthouse in the first case, whereas it would have been sorted much faster for someone renting?

Society and the legal system are more than taking into account that difference in consequences already. People preventing court decisions from being executed are simply thugs.

I am not agreeing with Spider's position, but the process for removing a non paying tenant is often only marginally quicker than that. And you may be left with a serious mess to clean up afterwards.

D3PO

lima wrote: »

I I can buy a house if I wanted, but as per above I find it high risk to buy in this crazy market where .

changing your tune. You have always proclaimed you haven't bought as you cant afford to buy in the areas you want to as they are overpriced due to lack of repos ......

but then again don't let the truth get in the way of a good argument.

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

I think there's a lot of nonsense being spouted, seriously can you see an organised protest in favour of repossessions?

There's a huge difference between someone who rents and someone who owns, if you rent and your kicked out, you find another place, if you own and are repossessed you lose everything you have and are in debt with nothing to show for it for he rest of your life, they are very different beasts.

I really don't know why people don't see that.

This was the post that you received a friendly communication about.

The Spider wrote: »

Your efforts would be better spent focusing on your career and getting to a place where you can buy a house, instead of creating imaginary enemies.

Or go ahead and organise your little group I'd actually go along and bring some popcorn to watch a bunch of kids demanding people be thrown out of their homes, you wouldn't last two minutes.

Nothing in there about the "huge difference between someone who rents and someone who owns". Also nothing on your entirely incorrect assertation that "if you own and are repossessed you lose everything you have and are in debt with nothing to show for it for he rest of your life". Just personalised needling.