Glut of repossessed houses could depress prices ‘by up to 25%’

jmayo

Tea drinker wrote: »

Things aren't going to change, planning your life around the Irish property is a bad strategy. Ask me how I know.

Lima I would echo Tea drinker's sentiment.

My advise is if you can get out to do so.
If I could I would as i don't think this country is really fundamentally going to change.

We have huge vested interests in most walks of life who want things to continue as they are.
We have a huge entitlement culture not just as some would see at the bottom in long term lifer social welfare circles ,but right at the very top of our public institutions.
Hell it was even in some or our biggest private sector institutions like the banks.

Some people can't see the fact that we are small country on the periphery of Europe and that we should not be paid multiples of what people doing the same job, often probably way better, in some other countries are paid.
This attitude is visible in all our public services, hell even our sporting organisations where our sports managers and presidents are often piad way more than the biggest and most successful ones in the world.

We have totally incompetent, downright negligent and wasteful publicly (for the most part they are public sector) paid individuals walk away with generous handouts and gigantic pensions in comparison to the ordinary people.
The latest horror is that these same class of people would dip into the charitable donations for the less priveledged, less able amongst us in order to continue getting their over inflated salaries.
There is no decency, there is no honour, there is only the hand in the greasy till.

I have reached a stage where I now believe that this country might only change when we default, have nothing and are back at year zero.

The Spider

Well, ye all know where the door is, nobody making you stay!

jmayo

The Spider wrote: »

Well, ye all know where the door is, nobody making you stay!

Have you the inability to read ?

jmayo wrote: »

Lima I would echo Tea drinker's sentiment.

My advise is if you can get out to do so.
If I could I would as i don't think this country is really fundamentally going to change.

Besides if we all left then who the fook would pay all those bailouts and debt writeoffs you are looking for ?
And who would pay the rent, and probably the bailout you want for all that negative equity that goes with, that apartment your missus bought ?

Oh and one final thing, your reaction reminds me of one bertie ahern who basically told people who spoke out to go committ suicide.
Also noticable how your sentiments are shared by your fellow debt writeoff champion.

The Spider

jmayo wrote: »

Have you the inability to read ?



Besides if we all left then who the fook would pay all those bailouts and debt writeoffs you are looking for ?
And who would pay the rent, and probably the bailout you want for all that negative equity that goes with, that apartment your missus bought ?

Oh and one final thing, your reaction reminds me of one bertie ahern who basically told people who spoke out to go committ suicide.
Also noticable how your sentiments are shared by your fellow debt writeoff champion.

But everyone isn't going to leave now are they, there is no 'we' there isn't a collective, I doubt all those people buying houses in SCD are going to leave.

You're the one who suggested it

"My advise is if you can get out to do so"

Not everyone sees the country through your eyes obviously, lot of people earning good salaries in good jobs, who are believe it or not, buying houses.

A lot more people already bought houses, your gripe and others essentially comes down to I want a cheap house, you can dress it up in bailouts and where's the money coming from for mortgages, and the troika etc.

But my read on all of it is, tell peole to stop buying houses so I can get a cheap one.

Economy's on the up.

Few headlines for ya:

MICROSOFT is to create 380 construction-related jobs

Britvic’s Irish wholesale division adds 20 jobs

Oh and one big link

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/35024-tech-industry-in-ireland-no

That's where the moneys coming from Tech.

The Spider

Interesting article on the effect of repossessions on the market.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/analysis-rising-prices-won-t-solve-underlying-problems-in-property-market-1.1616704

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

Well, ye all know where the door is, nobody making you stay!

Hey Bertie. How's tricks?

The Spider wrote: »

But everyone isn't going to leave now are they, there is no 'we' there isn't a collective, I doubt all those people buying houses in SCD are going to leave.

You're the one who suggested it

"My advise is if you can get out to do so"

Not everyone sees the country through your eyes obviously, lot of people earning good salaries in good jobs, who are believe it or not, buying houses.

A lot more people already bought houses, your gripe and others essentially comes down to I want a cheap house, you can dress it up in bailouts and where's the money coming from for mortgages, and the troika etc.

But my read on all of it is, tell peole to stop buying houses so I can get a cheap one.

Economy's on the up.

Few headlines for ya:

MICROSOFT is to create 380 construction-related jobs

Britvic’s Irish wholesale division adds 20 jobs

Oh and one big link

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/35024-tech-industry-in-ireland-no

That's where the moneys coming from Tech.

Whatever about your determination to provide an alternative viewpoint to the "doomsayers", you refusal to acknowledge any counterpoints and casual suggestion that "they can leave if they don't like it" is getting dangerously close to the "go kill yourself" tactic that the Green Jersey cheerleaders used to silence folk concerned with the way things were going.

As I say, the jobs above are good news but they are more than balanced by the losses in our pharma sector, previously the engine of real growth in this country:
570 jobs lost in MSD Swords
110 jobs in Baxter in Mayo
275 jobs lost in Pfizer Newbridge with 150 more to come
But you don't seem to want to even consider those.

techdiver

The Spider wrote: »

A lot more people already bought houses, your gripe and others essentially comes down to I want a cheap house, you can dress it up in bailouts and where's the money coming from for mortgages, and the troika etc.

But my read on all of it is, tell peole to stop buying houses so I can get a cheap one.

Not cheap. Affordable. Currently houses are still not affordable for people on decent incomes.

The Spider wrote: »

Oh and one big link

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/35024-tech-industry-in-ireland-no

That's where the moneys coming from Tech.

That's still a very small percentage of the workforce as a whole. I work in the "Tech" industry and I am consistently at pains to point out that salaries in this industry are not that high. It's not on the same level as banking or the financial sector, solicitors, medical professionals, or even construction level wages during the bubble years.

Many employees of the tech sector are low level technical support analysts and even more worrying is the lack of opportunities for graduates in the sector despite the news of it booming. Employers only want experienced professionals nowadays as their business model has changed and they no longer want to invest in training graduates. I know this because my company have only hired experienced people of the last 5 years and no graduates. This will have a knock on effect on future earnings of these people as it will take them longer to get a strong footing on the career ladder and overall salaries will fall for these people in relation to the incumbent employees with experience.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/readme/why-are-so-few-computer-science-graduates-getting-jobs-1113833-Oct2013

The Spider

gaius c wrote: »

Whatever about your determination to provide an alternative viewpoint to the "doomsayers", you refusal to acknowledge any counterpoints and casual suggestion that "they can leave if they don't like it" is getting dangerously close to the "go kill yourself" tactic that the Green Jersey cheerleaders used to silence folk concerned with the way things were going.

As I say, the jobs above are good news but they are more than balanced by the losses in our pharma sector, previously the engine of real growth in this country:
570 jobs lost in MSD Swords
110 jobs in Baxter in Mayo
275 jobs lost in Pfizer Newbridge with 150 more to come
But you don't seem to want to even consider those.

Actually I did consider posting links to the job losses as well,and maybe I should have, But the general trend is the economy is improving, it'll be interesting to see christmas spending if it's up or not.

As for my suggestion leave if you don't like it, well they should, the amount of comments about how bad the country is, and the first chance I get I'm outta here type of stuff, look back through the thread, there's loads of it.

If you were in a job you hated that much would you stay? Point is if being here is such a miserable existence, why stay? As has been pointed out we're a small country on the edge of Europe, there's a whole world out there that may offer cheaper houses.

The Spider

techdiver wrote: »

Not cheap. Affordable. Currently houses are still not affordable for people on decent incomes.



That's still a very small percentage of the workforce as a whole. I work in the "Tech" industry and I am consistently at pains to point out that salaries in this industry are not that high. It's not on the same level as banking or the financial sector, solicitors, medical professionals, or even construction level wages during the bubble years.

Many employees of the tech sector are low level technical support analysts and even more worrying is the lack of opportunities for graduates in the sector despite the news of it booming. Employers only want experienced professionals nowadays as their business model has changed and they no longer want to invest in training graduates. I know this because my company have only hired experienced people of the last 5 years and no graduates. This will have a knock on effect on future earnings of these people as it will take them longer to get a string footing on the career ladder and overall salaries will fall for these people in relation to the incumbent employees with experience.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/readme/why-are-so-few-computer-science-graduates-getting-jobs-1113833-Oct2013

We hire graduates all the time, but I do know that experience is what counts getting these jobs, but there's many ways to get it, you can do an unpaid internship, lots of companies have these.

God knows when I was starting out I worked for practically nothing, basically the dole, but I knew it was important to get the experience, and nearly everyone else of my vintage did the same, there's always people who have connections.

That's what graduates have to do, or do some of their own projects, seriously a computer science graduate should at least have one or two apps in the app store or on android, that they've built themselves, doing something proactive will raise your game.

Oh and on the affordability factor, there's plenty of houses in West Dublin that are affordable, if you're talking SCD, true you may have a decent salary, you may be earning 100'000 a year, but if everyone looking to buy the houses in the area has a salary of 200'000 a year, then you obviously will have to look elsewhere.

techdiver

The Spider wrote: »

We hire graduates all the time, but I do know that experience is what counts getting these jobs, but there's many ways to get it, you can do an unpaid internship, lots of companies have these.

That's what graduates have to do, or do some of their own projects, seriously a computer science graduate should at least have one or two apps in the app store or on android, that they've built themselves, doing something proactive will raise your game.

The facts don't lie though. There are a lot less software development jobs out there now for graduates than there were when I was starting out. Regardless of what they have done on their own projects etc, that matters for little when the job spec looks for 5-6 years experience.

Also only a small minority of development jobs are to do with apps. Having a few android apps written is not going to get you any further in the door when it comes to a development house requiring persistence API or MVC experience. Anyway that's off topic.

My point being regardless of the cause and effect, the issue is there and not going away for graduates any time soon. Thus salaries and earnings will fall.

uberalles

jmayo wrote: »

Lima I would echo Tea drinker's sentiment.

My advise is if you can get out to do so.
If I could I would as i don't think this country is really fundamentally going to change.

We have huge vested interests in most walks of life who want things to continue as they are.
We have a huge entitlement culture not just as some would see at the bottom in long term lifer social welfare circles ,but right at the very top of our public institutions.
Hell it was even in some or our biggest private sector institutions like the banks.

Some people can't see the fact that we are small country on the periphery of Europe and that we should not be paid multiples of what people doing the same job, often probably way better, in some other countries are paid.
This attitude is visible in all our public services, hell even our sporting organisations where our sports managers and presidents are often piad way more than the biggest and most successful ones in the world.

We have totally incompetent, downright negligent and wasteful publicly (for the most part they are public sector) paid individuals walk away with generous handouts and gigantic pensions in comparison to the ordinary people.
The latest horror is that these same class of people would dip into the charitable donations for the less priveledged, less able amongst us in order to continue getting their over inflated salaries.
There is no decency, there is no honour, there is only the hand in the greasy till.

I have reached a stage where I now believe that this country might only change when we default, have nothing and are back at year zero.

+1

Ive never really fully understood how this country functions and Ive lived here all my life.

If anything its been an eye opener here to see the goings on over the last few years and its mostly not pleasant.

Around the world the gap between rich and poor widens.

The Spider

techdiver wrote: »

My point being regardless of the cause and effect, the issue is there and not going away for graduates any time soon. Thus salaries and earnings will fall.

Afraid I'll have to disagree on this one, salaries are rising at a rate of knots, it's actually a helluva lot harder for me to hire in London than Dublin, and Dublin is still difficult. Salaries in general are lower in Europe but not that much lower, however hiring in Europe is a nightmare, trying to get staff at a level you'd consider acceptable is very difficult.

People don't job hop as much and in general once they have a job they have it for life, and are very reluctant to leave. Conversely everyone is very careful about who they hire as they're aware once they hire them they're more than likely stuck with them.

Varies from country to country, but in general that's the gist. If graduates can stick out the first year of working for free, they should be in a good place. However Tech is a wide and varied field, although software development may be down, social media and online marketing are up, I've seen a lot of changes in the industry over the years, and one thing is guaranteed it doesn't stand still.

Anyway back on topic!

lima

The Spider wrote: »

Well, ye all know where the door is, nobody making you stay!

You have no idea of perspective, it's far better than this out there.

lima

lima wrote: »

You have no idea of perspective, it's far better than this out there.

Also I work in one of the top 10 tech companies in the world in Dublin and what I see is that once people (the ones who can) get 3-4 years exp they leave this country and emigrate to sunny California or elsewhere in the US. I'm here in the US right now for a few weeks and you should see how cheap houses are here.. 2500 sq ft for a couple hundred grand, it's actually hilarious to see people in Ireland who don't know any better fight with each other for a grimy little old house in a reasonable area for hundreds of thousands of euros.

Make you think.. if you have an opportunity, get out of here and increase your quality of life, you will be dead forever.

strandroad

The Spider wrote: »

Afraid I'll have to disagree on this one, salaries are rising at a rate of knots, it's actually a helluva lot harder for me to hire in London than Dublin, and Dublin is still difficult. Salaries in general are lower in Europe but not that much lower, however hiring in Europe is a nightmare, trying to get staff at a level you'd consider acceptable is very difficult.

I think your disproving your own point here - so you're a supervisor of some expensive positions... and yet you cannot afford a house in Dublin yourself and had to move out.

Tea drinker

uberalles wrote: »

+1

Ive never really fully understood how this country functions and Ive lived here all my life.

If anything its been an eye opener here to see the goings on over the last few years and its mostly not pleasant.

Around the world the gap between rich and poor widens.

+2 and nail on the head Jmayo.
I often thought that our cliqued culture was very like the mafia, and the extremely well paid heads in the Health Service dipping into car park money and money from the onsite shop is very like a mafia tax.
Where it differs is in what Jmayo said, taking money from sick kids. Sure even Tony Soprano wouldn't do that.
There is a sick obsession with wealth in this country, it comes from our being pauper-peasants with arseless pants for so long I suspect.
The talk in SCD restaurants has returned to chatter about houses and getting polish lads in to work on them. It's like the crash never happened.
Look at ESB sense of entitlement, pension fund will be in clover soon and still they want more money - probably because a dose of plan to go for early retirement ASAP.

Victor

The Spider wrote: »

Well, ye all know where the door is, nobody making you stay!

Can you make sure any provocative statements are constructive?

Moderator

The Spider

mhge wrote: »

I think your disproving your own point here - so you're a supervisor of some expensive positions... and yet you cannot afford a house in Dublin yourself and had to move out.

And that my friend is the point, if I can accept it, why can't you!?

indiewindy

Tea drinker wrote: »

+2 and nail on the head Jmayo.
I often thought that our cliqued culture was very like the mafia, and the extremely well paid heads in the Health Service dipping into car park money and money from the onsite shop is very like a mafia tax.
Where it differs is in what Jmayo said, taking money from sick kids. Sure even Tony Soprano wouldn't do that.
There is a sick obsession with wealth in this country, it comes from our being pauper-peasants with arseless pants for so long I suspect.
The talk in SCD restaurants has returned to chatter about houses and getting polish lads in to work on them. It's like the crash never happened.
Look at ESB sense of entitlement, pension fund will be in clover soon and still they want more money - probably because a dose of plan to go for early retirement ASAP.

They do it because they get away with it in Ireland in so many areas. Don't pay your mortgage for years and unless you have a subprime mortgage you are in clover and now we have the vested interests talking up the market again. A number of posters seem to have only registered to talk up the market and rubbish anyone who doesnt believe that the prices are not going to keep rising and wont fall again.

Calina

The Spider wrote: »

And that my friend is the point, if I can accept it, why can't you!?

That is a lazy response though. Why not change things for the better for everyone?

Why should we accept it just because you do?

Property is too expensive in Ireland be it for purchase or for rent. There seems, for years, to be this crazy idea that you need to deserve to be able to live in your own place. I've sat through discussions here where people try to persuade you that you need to deserve the right to live on your own; until you've reached this mythical point, you have to put in your time rent sharing. Likewise, the number of people who are willing to tolerate drivel are not willing to tolerate people who want beneficial change. Houses in Dublin are too small. Built too many apartments.

you learn to accept it fine. But other people want to change it, and somehow, those are the people who create and innovate. People who want to improve the lot of others. Without people with that attitude, if you work in tech you wouldn't have a job.

In the meantime, the property market in Ireland needs to be changed and it is going to be painful; all the more so because some of that pain could have been avoided because a lot of it was foreseeable.

I think the repossessions are going to have to happen, on some level. Probably not so much on PPRs but almost definitely on BTL. And this will cause some level of confusion in both the rental and purchase market as supply is back and forth. Something like this sort of correction can take years to play out and what worries me sometimes is that people think it's already fixed. Today, DAFT sent me a whole pile of new ads for sale that fitted a search criteria. Today alone, they probably sent me more than they have in the last 3 months.

This suggests to me that we are seesawing - people keep stuff off the market until they think the market has recovered. Supply will depress prices (especially in December and January) and things will be bumpy.

So what do you want for the future? A future where people pay as little for property as possible or as much for property? Because if you go for the latter, this has all sorts of nasty effects.

1) cost of social housing is high, so cost of government spending in social housing is high.
2) taxes are of necessity higher
3) consumption is lower which has an impact on consumer spending and on jobs in the retail sector.
4) this results in lower economic growth.

What do people want - monumentally high inflation so that they don't have to confront these debts? Or do they want some sort of a secure future with balanced growth and money being used for productive purposes rather than tied up in unproductive housing?

You're free to accept all you like. But that doesn't mean we all have to and it doesn't give you the right to suggest people can like it or lump it. In fact, it would be better for the country as a whole, perhaps, if you were dragged kicking and screaming out of your nice comfort zone where you accept things as they are and don't bother fixing the problems.

Because the one thing which isn't a rational excuse for change is "that's the way it is, why can't you accept it I can.". We'd all still be ploughing fields with our bare hands if everyone took that attitude.

moxin

The Spider wrote: »

Actually I did consider posting links to the job losses as well,and maybe I should have, But the general trend is the economy is improving, it'll be interesting to see christmas spending if it's up or not.

Thought I add that it ain't all rosy yet. Retail sales are down, cash buyers of property are not helping the shops.
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1026908.shtml

The volume of retail sales (i.e. excluding price effects) fell by 0.2% in October 2013 when compared with September 2013 and there was a drop of 0.9% in the annual figure. If Motor Trades are excluded there was no change in the volume of retail sales in October 2013 when compared with September 2013 and there was a decrease of 1.6% in the annual figure

Industrial production down over 5% for the year so far, 12% alone in Oct. Its fragile.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/manufacturing/industrial-production-drops-by-12-1-in-october-1.1619660

And lastly those cash buyers of property ain't snapping up cars. Car sales down by over 6% so far. Obviously cash buyers don't see money to be made in cars
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1206/491280-cso-car-sales/

strandroad

The Spider wrote: »

And that my friend is the point, if I can accept it, why can't you!?

I think you're confusing me with someone?
Your point is that rising tech salaries will support rising prices in Dublin. If your salary is not enough for that, how are your subordinates going to afford what you can't?

ezra_pound

Calina wrote: »

So what do you want for the future? A future where people pay as little for property as possible or as much for property? Because if you go for the latter, this has all sorts of nasty effects.

1) cost of social housing is high, so cost of government spending in social housing is high.
2) taxes are of necessity higher
3) consumption is lower which has an impact on consumer spending and on jobs in the retail sector.
4) this results in lower economic growth.

While I agree with you that we do not want house prices to be too high or too low but rather somewhere in between - let's call it the goldilocks point of just right - I fail to see how you can make the assumptions laid out above.


Can you please provide some research supporting these claims?

Re consumption. Here is a Harvard paper taking a contrary view

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=1liiUu3OJq3H7AbXv4DICA&url=http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3122600/campbellssrn_houseprices.pdf?sequence=2&cd=4&ved=0CDYQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNHxOr3Z_TqKnmq6TRmoR5FdrCOsKQ&sig2=B25Lemj3IShmeBLWERK2Ng

Why is level of taxation necessarily higher because of higher property prices? Is there any empirical evidence to support this?

Again I agree that if property is priced too high it's bad for economic growth but I think you're making false assertions to arrive at your thesis.

ezra_pound

moxin wrote: »

Thought I add that it ain't all rosy yet. Retail sales are down, cash buyers of property are not helping the shops.
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1026908.shtml


Industrial production down over 5% for the year so far, 12% alone in Oct. Its fragile.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/manufacturing/industrial-production-drops-by-12-1-in-october-1.1619660

And lastly those cash buyers of property ain't snapping up cars. Car sales down by over 6% so far. Obviously cash buyers don't see money to be made in cars
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1206/491280-cso-car-sales/

If that's the worst doom and gloom you can muster up then things really are looking up.

To quote the finfacts article: "Despite these figures, the conditions for growth in sales for the rest of the year are there. Consumer sentiment is high and there are nearly 60,000 new jobs in the economy compared with last year. Christmas will hopefully..."

We know that the pharma industry is experiencing a moment of shock with patents expiring etc. And this at least part explains manufacturing decline.

Hardly 2009 doom and gloom now is it.

moxin

ezra_pound wrote: »

If that's the worst doom and gloom you can muster up then things really are looking up.

To quote the finfacts article: "Despite these figures, the conditions for growth in sales for the rest of the year are there. Consumer sentiment is high and there are nearly 60,000 new jobs in the economy compared with last year. Christmas will hopefully..."

We know that the pharma industry is experiencing a moment of shock with patents expiring etc. And this at least part explains manufacturing decline.

Hardly 2009 doom and gloom now is it.

Not doom and gloom, its called reality instead of spin. 60,000 jobs is nice, lets delve deeper.
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1026894.shtml

However, about 80,000 unemployed are in public-funded back-to-work and back-to-education schemes but they are counted as employed or in education. In the QNHS, 139,000 in part-time work say they are seeking full-time employment. Net emigration by Irish nationals in 2009-2013 is at 95,000.

The largest rates of increase were recorded in the Agriculture, forestry and fishing (+29.3% or 25,100), the Accommodation and food service activities (+11.9% or 14,700)
One note of caution on interpreting the sectoral breakdown: the CSO added a health warning to the massive 25,100 increase (+29.3%) in agricultural employment over the year as the impact of the introduction of a new population sample following Census 2011.

Sounds like they might be in low paid jobs, they ain't spending yet, the decline so far in retail sales along with car sales backs this up. Don't open that champagne bottle just yet.

ezra_pound

How does the number of people on job bridge etc. Affect or distort the figure of 60000 new jobs.

Sorry mate. That point is bogus.

Nobody said champagne time.

Spider just said that things are getting better. And they are. Fact.

The_Conductor

ezra_pound wrote: »

How does the number of people on job bridge etc. Affect or distort the figure of 60000 new jobs.

Sorry mate. That point is bogus.

Nobody said champagne time.

Spider just said that things are getting better. And they are. Fact.

The number of people on job bridge etc- are not counted as 'new jobs' they are counted as being 'in education or training'- however they are removed from the list of people officially unemployed- so they massage the unemployed figures downwards.

There would appear to be some good news regarding the fall in unemployment figures though- as evidenced by the thankful underspent in DSFA- however to put this in context- the overspend in Health is almost 7 times the underspend in DSFA- so it really is a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The Spider

Calina wrote: »

That is a lazy response though. Why not change things for the better for everyone?

Why should we accept it just because you do?

Property is too expensive in Ireland be it for purchase or for rent. There seems, for years, to be this crazy idea that you need to deserve to be able to live in your own place. I've sat through discussions here where people try to persuade you that you need to deserve the right to live on your own; until you've reached this mythical point, you have to put in your time rent sharing. Likewise, the number of people who are willing to tolerate drivel are not willing to tolerate people who want beneficial change. Houses in Dublin are too small. Built too many apartments.

you learn to accept it fine. But other people want to change it, and somehow, those are the people who create and innovate. People who want to improve the lot of others. Without people with that attitude, if you work in tech you wouldn't have a job.

In the meantime, the property market in Ireland needs to be changed and it is going to be painful; all the more so because some of that pain could have been avoided because a lot of it was foreseeable.

I think the repossessions are going to have to happen, on some level. Probably not so much on PPRs but almost definitely on BTL. And this will cause some level of confusion in both the rental and purchase market as supply is back and forth. Something like this sort of correction can take years to play out and what worries me sometimes is that people think it's already fixed. Today, DAFT sent me a whole pile of new ads for sale that fitted a search criteria. Today alone, they probably sent me more than they have in the last 3 months.

This suggests to me that we are seesawing - people keep stuff off the market until they think the market has recovered. Supply will depress prices (especially in December and January) and things will be bumpy.

So what do you want for the future? A future where people pay as little for property as possible or as much for property? Because if you go for the latter, this has all sorts of nasty effects.

1) cost of social housing is high, so cost of government spending in social housing is high.
2) taxes are of necessity higher
3) consumption is lower which has an impact on consumer spending and on jobs in the retail sector.
4) this results in lower economic growth.

What do people want - monumentally high inflation so that they don't have to confront these debts? Or do they want some sort of a secure future with balanced growth and money being used for productive purposes rather than tied up in unproductive housing?

You're free to accept all you like. But that doesn't mean we all have to and it doesn't give you the right to suggest people can like it or lump it. In fact, it would be better for the country as a whole, perhaps, if you were dragged kicking and screaming out of your nice comfort zone where you accept things as they are and don't bother fixing the problems.

Because the one thing which isn't a rational excuse for change is "that's the way it is, why can't you accept it I can.". We'd all still be ploughing fields with our bare hands if everyone took that attitude.

Now that is nonsense, I have no problem with people owning, the issue is that they all want to live in the most desirable part if the country (SCD) for tuppence, although the fact that they all want to live there is why it's thr most desirable part of the country.

I've said it before theres loads of value in west Dublin. Time some people accepted they won't ever have that house in Dundrum just off the Luas line, or that nice property over looking the sea in Sandycove.

The Spider

mhge wrote: »

I think you're confusing me with someone?
Your point is that rising tech salaries will support rising prices in Dublin. If your salary is not enough for that, how are your subordinates going to afford what you can't?

And again I reiterate the point, there's lots of value in Dublin, it's just in places like Blanchardstown and Lucan, time for people to accept that not everyone can live in SCD.

gaius c

What repo sales are going to look like