Glut of repossessed houses could depress prices ‘by up to 25%’

Villa05

The_Conductor wrote: »

Well- just how likely is the average person to have 2 buy-to-let properties, secured debt of 600k and unsecured debt of another 180k?

Probably the average person that can afford a PIP You know who the Insolvency arrangements were set up to protect as well as I do

lima

Villa05 wrote: »

Unsecured of 160k mostly written off, allowed to keep the BTL's for now as they are providing an income that is paying for their PDH, I presume. Allowed to pay "what they can afford" on the BTL's mortgages



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-with-600000-debt-first-to-get-writeoff-deal-29949084.html

If Master-card did Insolvency deals....................

Personally I spit on these people & the systems that lets them keep their BTL's, whilst at the same time there are people desperate to get out of renting but can't compete with BTL landlords eating up all the supply.

However there'll be no holidays for 6 years I hope they have fun.

Villa05

lima wrote: »

Personally I spit on these people & the systems that lets them keep their BTL's, whilst at the same time there are people desperate to get out of renting but can't compete with BTL landlords eating up all the supply.

However there'll be no holidays for 6 years I hope they have fun.

Don't mind the people trying to get out of renting, what about the people trying to get started renting, these deals preserve rent at current prices and prices out the generations that will be handed the bill for this mess.

It's still a zero sum game, that deal is crazy, the amount of money lost in that deal and others will have to be made back from higher % rates to compliant borrowers. This will increase further bad debts, reduce mortgages in number and value. It will carry on as is for a while but the whole mess will blow up again very soon

moxin

McDook wrote: »

Then you answer again with a list of areas, but NOTHING to back it up?
Can you post us some proof if that position for the areas you mentioned above. Or are you just going go on and on and wear people out with your continuous claims that only south Dublin is experiencing price rises.

I was actually looking very recently in some of the places you mention above that you have proof of there being no price rises. Id like to see your proof that all of these places are not experiencing significant price rises now.

You really drag this one out, I gave you a list of areas. Consult the PPR, its all there for the public to view.

dinnyirwin

I've bought some repossessed properties over the last 6 months.
There are definitely a few available, but they are hard enough to find in the right areas at the right price, where you can make a good profit from renting them.

I dont know about a "glut" though, but heres hoping.

Banks have a list of these every month that you can just ask for if you are in well with your bank manager. It pays to get friendly with at least one bank manager in each bank. Ive seen lists that have had 10 or 11 repos on them and by the time i got it there were only 1 or 2 with no offers on them, so you will even be into bidding there too.

If you are looking in an area where there isnt huge demand it should be very easy to get a repossession at a good price. Any kind of reasonably popular area though and you will be struggling. Properties just dont get repossessed as much in decent areas, and those that are worth buying will attract bidding wars.

What you want is a repossession that nobody else is interested in at all to get a great price.

jay0109

lima wrote: »

Personally I spit on these people & the systems that lets them keep their BTL's, whilst at the same time there are people desperate to get out of renting but can't compete with BTL landlords eating up all the supply.

However there'll be no holidays for 6 years I hope they have fun.

I admire your innocence Lima....I'm sure (and I've heard of some) there are plenty of people out there getting deals who are still holidaying,wining/dining and driving around in style....this is Ireland after all.

This deal disgusts me...how were they allowed keep the btl's. It's sickening:mad:

lima

jay0109 wrote: »

I admire your innocence Lima....I'm sure (and I've heard of some) there are plenty of people out there getting deals who are still holidaying,wining/dining and driving around in style....this is Ireland after all.

This deal disgusts me...how were they allowed keep the btl's. It's sickening:mad:

Oh I know there will be some, it's disgusting alright. I wouldn't think there are plenty though. I just hope they feel as much stress as possible about the whole thing that it decreases their quality of life as much as possible as they deserve all they get.

Montroseee

dinnyirwin wrote: »

I've bought some repossessed properties over the last 6 months.
There are definitely a few available, but they are hard enough to find in the right areas at the right price, where you can make a good profit from renting them.

I dont know about a "glut" though, but heres hoping.

Banks have a list of these every month that you can just ask for if you are in well with your bank manager. It pays to get friendly with at least one bank manager in each bank. Ive seen lists that have had 10 or 11 repos on them and by the time i got it there were only 1 or 2 with no offers on them, so you will even be into bidding there too.

If you are looking in an area where there isnt huge demand it should be very easy to get a repossession at a good price. Any kind of reasonably popular area though and you will be struggling. Properties just dont get repossessed as much in decent areas, and those that are worth buying will attract bidding wars.

What you want is a repossession that nobody else is interested in at all to get a great price.

Where did you get the cash if you don't mind me asking?

dinnyirwin

Montroseee wrote: »

Where did you get the cash if you don't mind me asking?

Ive had property in Ireland and the UK for many years.

Basically just a re-assignment of profit from equities now, since good returns are available in Dublin property.

cormie

So where can your average working man with a secure income who'd be able to afford mortgage repayments similar to what they pay in rent find one of these houses? Is it a case of it being who you know and only the friends of bank managers get the low down? It's crazy the amount of vacant properties in the area I'd be interested in living yet the prices are still crazy.

OMD

cormie wrote: »

So where can your average working man with a secure income who'd be able to afford mortgage repayments similar to what they pay in rent find one of these houses? Is it a case of it being who you know and only the friends of bank managers get the low down? It's crazy the amount of vacant properties in the area I'd be interested in living yet the prices are still crazy.

You won't find mortgages similar to rent. It wouldn't make financial sense if you could.
On what basis are you saying price of properties for the average worker (I.e. An average house) are crazy? Average wage in Ireland is €21.40 an hour or 43,400 a year for a full time worker. Average property is €171,000 (asking price from Daft) which is just under 4 times average wage of one worker. What do you think would be non-crazy prices?

Bob24

OMD wrote: »

You won't find mortgages similar to rent. It wouldn't make financial sense if you could.
On what basis are you saying price of properties for the average worker (I.e. An average house) are crazy? Average wage in Ireland is €21.40 an hour or 43,400 a year for a full time worker. Average property is €171,000 (asking price from Daft) which is just under 4 times average wage of one worker. What do you think would be non-crazy prices?

As they say ... Location, location, location!

Now the question is to know whereas the properties at the price you are mentioning are available in the areas where people can get decently paid jobs and in neighbourhood which are safe and where you would want your kids to be able to grow up without facing too much antisocial behaviour.

I am not totally sure what the answer is, but on thing I am pretty sure of is that there are a number of boom era houses in the country which can be had for cheap and are taking your average price down, but are not exactly in areas where the job market is booming.

Waesfjord

dinnyirwin wrote: »

I've bought some repossessed properties over the last 6 months.
There are definitely a few available, but they are hard enough to find in the right areas at the right price, where you can make a good profit from renting them.

I dont know about a "glut" though, but heres hoping.

Banks have a list of these every month that you can just ask for if you are in well with your bank manager. It pays to get friendly with at least one bank manager in each bank. Ive seen lists that have had 10 or 11 repos on them and by the time i got it there were only 1 or 2 with no offers on them, so you will even be into bidding there too.

If you are looking in an area where there isnt huge demand it should be very easy to get a repossession at a good price. Any kind of reasonably popular area though and you will be struggling. Properties just dont get repossessed as much in decent areas, and those that are worth buying will attract bidding wars.

What you want is a repossession that nobody else is interested in at all to get a great price.

Surely the repossessed houses go on sale on the open market through local estate agents to allow the banks to maximise their price s - the way you describe sounds like its a closed/private sale to those 'in the know' with the bank managers

cormie

I don't have a clue about these things to be honest which is why I'm following this thread. I'd be interested in getting my own place but I'm in no way wealthy but do have a secure job and could afford the repayments, especially renting one of the rooms out. And yup, location location seems to be kicking in here, but it's just shocking to see how many vacant places there are boarded up houses and that in perfectly good areas and then you're wondering why houses on the market are going for mad money.

Seanie_H

cormie wrote: »

I don't have a clue about these things to be honest which is why I'm following this thread. I'd be interested in getting my own place but I'm in no way wealthy but do have a secure job and could afford the repayments, especially renting one of the rooms out.

I'm exactly the same. This thread and the opinions give me an alternative view to the papers and hype. Constantly watching myhome. ie and the property price register. Astounding lack of supply and anything half decent in Dublin is very overpriced (IMO).

I'd like to see the market settle/bed down before I buy. Renting is a bit painful so hopefully it happens sooner than later.

REXER

dinnyirwin wrote: »

I've bought some repossessed properties over the last 6 months.
There are definitely a few available, but they are hard enough to find in the right areas at the right price, where you can make a good profit from renting them.

I dont know about a "glut" though, but heres hoping.

Banks have a list of these every month that you can just ask for if you are in well with your bank manager. It pays to get friendly with at least one bank manager in each bank. Ive seen lists that have had 10 or 11 repos on them and by the time i got it there were only 1 or 2 with no offers on them, so you will even be into bidding there too.

If you are looking in an area where there isnt huge demand it should be very easy to get a repossession at a good price. Any kind of reasonably popular area though and you will be struggling. Properties just dont get repossessed as much in decent areas, and those that are worth buying will attract bidding wars.

What you want is a repossession that nobody else is interested in at all to get a great price.

Thats Ireland in a nutshell, the corruption just rolls on and on. The whole process should be totally transparent but no hope of that!

The_Conductor

REXER wrote: »

Thats Ireland in a nutshell, the corruption just rolls on and on. The whole process should be totally transparent but no hope of that!

How is this corrupt?
Its about the only way for a bank or any other lender to offload repossessed properties. This is Ireland remember. Land of Allsop auctions being invaded by halfwits who haven't a clue who Countess Markievicz was- or indeed when she passed away.

If banks are managing to repossess, and dispose of properties- well done to them.

REXER

The_Conductor wrote: »

How is this corrupt?
Its about the only way for a bank or any other lender to offload repossessed properties. This is Ireland remember. Land of Allsop auctions being invaded by halfwits who haven't a clue who Countess Markievicz was- or indeed when she passed away.

If banks are managing to repossess, and dispose of properties- well done to them.

How is that not corruption?

The banks should be disposing of these properties on the open market where the best prices can be achieved, not to their buddies and other insiders with a nudge and a wink and most likely a brown envelope as well!

indiewindy

REXER wrote: »

How is that not corruption?

The banks should be disposing of these properties on the open market where the best prices can be achieved, not to their buddies and other insiders with a nudge and a wink and most likely a brown envelope as well!

fully agree, highest prices would be achieved on the open market, not dirty dealings with a chosen few

makeorbrake

The_Conductor wrote: »

How is this corrupt?

It's not transparent - and if not transparent, there's every possibility that it's in some way corrupt.

I know for a fact that in one of the Baltic States, the banks there advertise the properties they have repossessed inside the bank and/or on the window. It's clear to all whats available and the asking price the bank has put on said properties.

moxin

OMD wrote: »

On what basis are you saying price of properties for the average worker (I.e. An average house) are crazy? Average wage in Ireland is €21.40 an hour or 43,400 a year for a full time worker. Average property is €171,000 (asking price from Daft) which is just under 4 times average wage of one worker. What do you think would be non-crazy prices?

Where did you get €43.4k?

By the way, over in the Irish Economy forum they found it to be around 33-35k, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056749896

MouseTail

moxin wrote: »

Where did you get €43.4k?

By the way, over in the Irish Economy forum they found it to be around 33-35k, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056749896

No it didn't, there was no agreement reached. The average industrial wage in Q3, 2013 was €35,127, but that includes part time workers, if you extrapolate the average hourly rate to a 40 hour week, you get an average full time wage of €44,500

moxin

MouseTail wrote: »

No it didn't, there was no agreement reached. The average industrial wage in Q3, 2013 was €35,127, but that includes part time workers, if you extrapolate the average hourly rate to a 40 hour week, you get an average full time wage of €44,500

The industrial wage does not cover all sectors of employment, go read the thread. They came to the 33-35k range quoting their sources.

Frank Lee Midere

MouseTail wrote: »

No it didn't, there was no agreement reached. The average industrial wage in Q3, 2013 was €35,127, but that includes part time workers, if you extrapolate the average hourly rate to a 40 hour week, you get an average full time wage of €44,500

Obviously not everybody works in industry or works full time. Industry is in decline, lots of jobs are retail etc.

moxin

Here's the latest from Q3 2013 which covers all sectors.
http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=EHQ03.asp&TableName=Earnings+and+Labour+Costs&StatisticalProduct=DB_EH

Its €675.53 per week so €35, 127 per year. If the "Average property is €171,000 (asking price from Daft)" , that means 4.87 times the average wage of one worker. Still quite high.

MouseTail

Moxin, if you read that table you will see it includes part time workers, and is based on a 31 hour week.

dinnyirwin

brian1976 wrote: »

Surely the repossessed houses go on sale on the open market through local estate agents to allow the banks to maximise their price s - the way you describe sounds like its a closed/private sale to those 'in the know' with the bank managers

Its not closed at all.
And its not corruption. Its a seller seeking the best way to sell their goods.
Its available to anyone willing to find out how it all works.
Talk to your bank manager. If they dont think you are a time waster then they will happily explain the situation to you. But I fear most people inquiring are time wasters and the bank staff are sick of that.

Sometimes sellers want an immediate sale rather than wading through the whole sales process. They can go to auction too sometimes, but thats not always the best option for them.

It even happens with EA sales. Cash buyers are preferred to almost everyone else. A lot of investors now will buy with cash and refinance. It gives them the power of cash for the transaction and then afterwards frees up thier capital again.

REXER

dinnyirwin wrote: »

Its not closed at all.
And its not corruption. Its a seller seeking the best way to sell their goods.
Its available to anyone willing to find out how it all works.
Talk to your bank manager. If they dont think you are a time waster then they will happily explain the situation to you. But I fear most people inquiring are time wasters and the bank staff are sick of that.

Sometimes sellers want an immediate sale rather than wading through the whole sales process. They can go to auction too sometimes, but thats not always the best option for them.

It even happens with EA sales. Cash buyers are preferred to almost everyone else. A lot of investors now will buy with cash and refinance. It gives them the power of cash for the transaction and then afterwards frees up thier capital again.

Its not closed at all. We just never told anyone! :rolleyes:
It even happens with EA sales. Enough said! :rolleyes:

No matter how you spin it these types of practices are what got us where we are!

dinnyirwin

REXER wrote: »

Its not closed at all. We just never told anyone! :rolleyes:
It even happens with EA sales. Enough said! :rolleyes:

No matter how you spin it these types of practices are what got us where we are!

Not all properties are advertised on Myhome.ie
No different to not all cars are advertised on donedeal.
Neither means shady dealings.

People always want to blame someone else for their own lack of work.

Montroseee

Why would the banks put a huge number of properties on the market at the same? It's just basic economics - supply and demand.